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Post by Wave. on Nov 6, 2020 17:52:42 GMT -5
Now it can ride out and stay consistent with the two singles out rn.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Nov 6, 2020 17:53:19 GMT -5
Did Positions have physical-album availability? Yup, there's 3 versions of the album on her store and on Target's website / in their stores if I recall correctly. EDIT: I saw somebody unbox a Target CD version on YouTube the day of release with the red sticker so that's really my only source of it. oh, the limited edition covers on her website are Target exclusives, turns out. it says they're in stock at my store, alongside the standard cover. so I think you're right!
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Nov 6, 2020 17:53:41 GMT -5
Did Positions have physical-album availability? People still buy CDs? Bless their hearts.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Nov 6, 2020 17:55:49 GMT -5
Thanks. Also checked Amazon, where it's sold/shipped by Amazon, so I guess that answers the question, too. Nick- they 'sho do. Well, at least when it's an act who's a master at inspiring her fanbase to snap em up. See a particular album released earlier this year.
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Post by jamatthews83 on Nov 6, 2020 17:58:45 GMT -5
That's a nice jump for Carrie (and she still hasn't really got started).
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Nov 6, 2020 18:14:52 GMT -5
Not great numbers but legs and streaming can get it to platinum... eventually.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Nov 6, 2020 18:17:12 GMT -5
That's a nice jump for Carrie (and she still hasn't really got started). It's been so warm here in New York, I can't even think about Christmas music yet, but I do want to stream her album later this month.
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Nov 6, 2020 19:20:36 GMT -5
^No Meghan Trainor in the top 50. I would expect Pentatonix's holiday album to at least manage a top 10 debut in a couple of weeks.
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Kinney
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Post by Kinney on Nov 6, 2020 20:57:55 GMT -5
Not a flop, but down 50k from Sweetener and 180k from Thank U, Next is definitely not a success. I think it'll still hit platinum, eventually.
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WolfSpear
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Post by WolfSpear on Nov 6, 2020 22:33:14 GMT -5
You think Ariana has peaked? She’s bound to remain solid for some time, but the way ‘Thank U, Next’ performed both on the charts and sales wise, it would be difficult to top.
Yeah, I do the election softened her opening to some extent. It’s more or less the vibe of everything. To be fair, it’s not like Justin Bieber opened on a positive note this year either. No tours, no clubs, no real publicity all add up and shadow this new piece.
Reality though, it’s been a good year for her. 3 number one hits in a calendar year is certainly noteworthy.
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groovy
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Post by groovy on Nov 6, 2020 23:50:53 GMT -5
To be honest, Ariana was and is still never a strong first week seller so these numbers don't surprise me at all.
I'm still wondering though why she's never had strong first week sales (aside from thank u, next for the obvious reasons). Her first week sales are usually on par with Rihanna (again, except for thank u, next) but with Rihanna, we all know that she's more of a GP girl and never really had that big of a fanbase. Ariana on the other hand, has the GP on her side + a MASSIVE following on social media that feels like almost on BTS/Bieber/Taylor level.
Not that it's a bad thing though I'm just curious what would be the reason.
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fridayteenage
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Post by fridayteenage on Nov 7, 2020 0:03:13 GMT -5
Her first week is better than her other weeks. Per acharts: Yours Truly 1-9 My Everything 1-4-11 Dangerous Woman 2-6 Sweetener 1-4-5-10
one week in the top 3 for each of those.
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Post by Caviar on Nov 7, 2020 0:38:03 GMT -5
She'll have the #1 album and currently has the #1 song in the country. She's far from peaked. She's still building on TUN.
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Post by thegreatdivine on Nov 7, 2020 1:36:52 GMT -5
She'll have the #1 album and currently has the #1 song in the country. She's far from peaked. She's still building on TUN. If she hadn't peaked yet, positions wouldn't have performed so poorly, at least in it's debut week. Maybe it wouldn't have had the longevity TUN had in it's subsequent weeks but it's debut would have been at least bigger than TUN. The fact that she did 160K less than her bestselling album so far only one year after releasing said album says otherwise. I believe her next album will have a bigger debut week than positions but a 360K debut, along with the streaming performance of TUN is more than likely her peak.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Nov 7, 2020 2:05:35 GMT -5
She'll have the #1 album and currently has the #1 song in the country. She's far from peaked. She's still building on TUN. If she hadn't peaked yet, positions wouldn't have performed so poorly, at least in it's debut week. Maybe it wouldn't have had the longevity TUN had in it's subsequent weeks but it's debut would have been at least bigger than TUN. The fact that she did 160K less than her bestselling album so far only one year after releasing said album says otherwise. I believe her next album will have a bigger debut week than positions but a 360K debut, along with the streaming performance of TUN is more than likely her peak. I was looking for numbers to see how the figures in the Top 10 changed since last year (they didn't change all that much) but I realized that Charlie's Angels OST opened at #26 with 15.6k SPS exactly a year ago (week ending 11/8/2019). That project showed us what Ariana's name alone can bring to a project of throwaways and random collabs, which arguably equals her core fanbase that will buy anything coming from her. It's a pretty small group. Before Ariana, most-followed woman (and also person) on Instagram was Selena Gomez, who could only dream about doing 180k SPS right now. Social media followers =/= dedicated fans, and definitely not US-based fans. All that to say, TUN is definitely her peak (so far). We've seen artists that outdo themselves further down the line before, but I wouldn't expect that from Ariana if she goes the "I'll release whatever I want now" route (which Positions could signal she might). I mean, I'd say folklore is Taylor Swift's peak critically and streaming-wise, but even that record fell short of opening above her previous album's numbers, despite having like 5 more editions available to purchase. So yeah unless Ariana can outstream TUN (aka the biggest streaming week among women) by a comfortable margin, she's not going to do bigger numbers on the albums front.
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m450n
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Post by m450n on Nov 7, 2020 2:40:00 GMT -5
If she hadn't peaked yet, positions wouldn't have performed so poorly, at least in it's debut week. Maybe it wouldn't have had the longevity TUN had in it's subsequent weeks but it's debut would have been at least bigger than TUN. The fact that she did 160K less than her bestselling album so far only one year after releasing said album says otherwise. I believe her next album will have a bigger debut week than positions but a 360K debut, along with the streaming performance of TUN is more than likely her peak. I was looking for numbers to see how the figures in the Top 10 changed since last year (they didn't change all that much) but I realized that Charlie's Angels OST opened at #26 with 15.6k SPS exactly a year ago (week ending 11/8/2019). That project showed us what Ariana's name alone can bring to a project of throwaways and random collabs, which arguably equals her core fanbase that will buy anything coming from her. It's a pretty small group. Before Ariana, most-followed woman (and also person) on Instagram was Selena Gomez, who could only dream about doing 180k SPS right now. Social media followers =/= dedicated fans, and definitely not US-based fans. All that to say, TUN is definitely her peak (so far). We've seen artists that outdo themselves further down the line before, but I wouldn't expect that from Ariana if she goes the "I'll release whatever I want now" route (which Positions could signal she might). I mean, I'd say folklore is Taylor Swift's peak critically and streaming-wise, but even that record fell short of opening above her previous album's numbers, despite having like 5 more editions available to purchase. So yeah unless Ariana can outstream TUN (aka the biggest streaming week among women) by a comfortable margin, she's not going to do bigger numbers on the albums front. How are you going to say folklore is Taylor's peak when she literally hasn't released a song since?
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Nov 7, 2020 2:45:35 GMT -5
I was looking for numbers to see how the figures in the Top 10 changed since last year (they didn't change all that much) but I realized that Charlie's Angels OST opened at #26 with 15.6k SPS exactly a year ago (week ending 11/8/2019). That project showed us what Ariana's name alone can bring to a project of throwaways and random collabs, which arguably equals her core fanbase that will buy anything coming from her. It's a pretty small group. Before Ariana, most-followed woman (and also person) on Instagram was Selena Gomez, who could only dream about doing 180k SPS right now. Social media followers =/= dedicated fans, and definitely not US-based fans. All that to say, TUN is definitely her peak (so far). We've seen artists that outdo themselves further down the line before, but I wouldn't expect that from Ariana if she goes the "I'll release whatever I want now" route (which Positions could signal she might). I mean, I'd say folklore is Taylor Swift's peak critically and streaming-wise, but even that record fell short of opening above her previous album's numbers, despite having like 5 more editions available to purchase. So yeah unless Ariana can outstream TUN (aka the biggest streaming week among women) by a comfortable margin, she's not going to do bigger numbers on the albums front. How are you going to say folklore is Taylor's peak when she literally hasn't released a song since? it is literally Taylor's most streamed and most acclaimed release yet?? she's AT her peak. she COULD outdo it. we won't really know until her next album's out.
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Post by thegreatdivine on Nov 7, 2020 5:31:00 GMT -5
kimberly pretty much. While I think Ariana has the right to release as much music as she wants to as frequently as she wants to, what she'll learn eventually (if she hasn't learned it with this album already) is that it's quite difficult to maintain an above average level of commercial excellence and critical acclaim when you have a new album ready to go every single year. At best, you release mostly good albums with some duds in-between, worst case, you start releasing dud after dud after dud critically and commercially and you burn yourself out much quicker with the GP than you would have otherwise. I'm not at all worried about the future of her career. She'll be here for as long as she wants to be. The only thing I'm bothered about is that her albums don't have nearly as much longevity on streaming as they could/should. Does she even have an album that's moved up to 3/4M units in the U.S. yet? Billie Eilish/Post Malone coming after her and already serving better longevity on streaming with their songs/albums while she can't is quite worrisome. I feel the same way about Taylor and how front-loaded her eras have been since reputation. I don't even care that much for high debuts/peaks because as we go deeper into the streaming era, consistency will matter more than all of that. The artists who will suffer are those who have front-loaded singles/albums because they'll begin to get exposed more and more with radio becoming weaker and sales dying a little more with every passing year. Anyways, I can't wait for what she drops next. I'd like to see her do some more features. Maybe she does that throughout next year while readying an album for 2022.
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Soundcl🕤ck
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Post by Soundcl🕤ck on Nov 7, 2020 5:49:37 GMT -5
The only thing I'm bothered about is that her albums don't have nearly as much longevity on streaming as they could/should. Does she even have an album that's moved up to 3/4M units in the U.S. yet?
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Post by thegreatdivine on Nov 7, 2020 5:52:48 GMT -5
The only thing I'm bothered about is that her albums don't have nearly as much longevity on streaming as they could/should. Does she even have an album that's moved up to 3/4M units in the U.S. yet? Nice! I checked and her two highest-certified albums are My Everything/TUN which are both 2X Platinum. The others are certified Platinum.
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born
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Post by born on Nov 7, 2020 6:32:33 GMT -5
Good numbers for Sam. The album had zero hype and all of their singles this year (minus "Diamonds" which is rising at the moment) underperformed.
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strongerq
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Post by strongerq on Nov 7, 2020 7:44:47 GMT -5
it is literally Taylor's most streamed and most acclaimed release yet?? she's AT her peak. she COULD outdo it. we won't really know until her next album's out. For most acclaimed agreed. For most streamed. She only has released 2 albums in the Streaming Era. Reputation was't released on streaming so it doesn't count. So you are saying folklore did better than Lover.
Taylor's commercial peak was 1989, you can't argue that.
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strongerq
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Post by strongerq on Nov 7, 2020 7:57:53 GMT -5
Not arguing you about that, but what tgd was pointing out is this. The longevity of thank u, next hasn't been that great. Free Spirit does a bit more than tun in 2020. And others that did around the same in 2019 (Lover & WWAFAWDWG) are getting away in 2020.
I am not saying this is bad because the truth is 97-98% of albums sell what they sell in the first 6-9 months and then it is over. But if we hold tun to the standard of albums with good longevity it isn't impressive.
The units as pointed out are using BB200 formula. so in 2019 video streaming isn't counted that is why "lower" units. (up till week 42) *btw this is using Billboard 200 formula/units, not RIAA. Even though since 2020 they are quite close.
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NeRD
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Post by NeRD on Nov 7, 2020 8:21:45 GMT -5
To be fair, Ariana doesn't promote her albums long enough to get higher certs. Sweetener and TUN only had three singles. I believe the first two for both were released within a week or two of each other. Then they only let the third do its thing for a month or two before they move on. It's a strategy that makes sense during the streaming era. So I don't think it's fair to gauge her albums' commerical performance on their certs.
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Nov 7, 2020 8:37:48 GMT -5
Ariana got lucky this wasn't a busy week with those dysmal numbers... welp.
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Nov 7, 2020 8:53:03 GMT -5
She'll have the #1 album and currently has the #1 song in the country. She's far from peaked. She's still building on TUN. How is a 50% drop "building on"? Make it make sense. (Debuting at #1 was much harder when she did it with TUN and 7R too, "positions" the single did lower numbers than those).
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strongerq
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Post by strongerq on Nov 7, 2020 9:01:42 GMT -5
To be fair, Ariana doesn't promote her albums long enough to get higher certs. Sweetener and TUN only had three singles. I believe the first two for both were released within a week or two of each other. Then they only let the third do its thing for a month or two before they move on. It's a strategy that makes sense during the streaming era. So I don't think it's fair to gauge her albums' commerical performance on their certs. idk who this was a reply to, but i will correct you in this. It is the streaming era, in 2020 the bigest album on YTD is 'My Turn' which has 0 big hits. In the streaming era you can determine the longevity using methods like this.
Example in 2020 (42 weeks):
dont smile at me (2017) - 592,000
÷ (2017) - 463,000 Traveller (2015) - 463,000
American Teen (2017) - 446,000
LUV Is Rage 2 (2017) - 435,000 Invasion Of Privacy (2018) - 417,000 good kid m.A.A.d. city (2012) - 399,000 DAMN. (2017) - 391,000 Take Care (2011) - 386,000....
Did these albums release singles in 2020 or something i missed ?
Some albums have longevity because of 1/2 huge hits with longevity, some albums remain popular as a whole (gkmc for example).
The point being made is that "7 rings" and "than u, next" despite having huge openings/being extremely popular within the first half a year, didn't have good longevity. The album as a whole has decent longevity, but when compared to albums from its range it falls a bit short.
P.S: Nothing against Ariana just pointing out stats.
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NeRD
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Post by NeRD on Nov 7, 2020 9:29:38 GMT -5
To be fair, Ariana doesn't promote her albums long enough to get higher certs. Sweetener and TUN only had three singles. I believe the first two for both were released within a week or two of each other. Then they only let the third do its thing for a month or two before they move on. It's a strategy that makes sense during the streaming era. So I don't think it's fair to gauge her albums' commerical performance on their certs. idk who this was a reply to, but i will correct you in this. It is the streaming era, in 2020 the bigest album on YTD is 'My Turn' which has 0 big hits. In the streaming era you can determine the longevity using methods like this.
Example in 2020 (42 weeks): dont smile at me (2017) - 592,000
÷ (2017) - 463,000 Traveller (2015) - 463,000
American Teen (2017) - 446,000
LUV Is Rage 2 (2017) - 435,000 Invasion Of Privacy (2018) - 417,000 good kid m.A.A.d. city (2012) - 399,000 DAMN. (2017) - 391,000 Take Care (2011) - 386,000.... Did these albums release singles in 2020 or something i missed ? Some albums have longevity because of 1/2 huge hits with longevity, some albums remain popular as a whole (gkmc for example). The point being made is that "7 rings" and "than u, next" despite having huge openings/being extremely popular within the first half a year, didn't have good longevity. The album as a whole has decent longevity, but when compared to albums from its range it falls a bit short. P.S: Nothing against Ariana just pointing out stats.
You missed the whole point. TUN and 7 Rings' "lack" of longevity was due to the high turnover rates of her single releases. They simply don't give her singles time to breathe. They move on fast, causing longevity on radio and other metrics to be shortened, and singles longevity on the Hot 100. Rihanna had this same issue earlier in her career. This is why Rih doesn't have higher certified singles like Katy or even Gaga for her biggest hits. Compare the amount of singles/albums released from the artists of those albums you listed to Ariana, and you will have your answer.
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Post by thegreatdivine on Nov 7, 2020 10:59:43 GMT -5
idk who this was a reply to, but i will correct you in this. It is the streaming era, in 2020 the bigest album on YTD is 'My Turn' which has 0 big hits. In the streaming era you can determine the longevity using methods like this.
Example in 2020 (42 weeks): dont smile at me (2017) - 592,000
÷ (2017) - 463,000 Traveller (2015) - 463,000
American Teen (2017) - 446,000
LUV Is Rage 2 (2017) - 435,000 Invasion Of Privacy (2018) - 417,000 good kid m.A.A.d. city (2012) - 399,000 DAMN. (2017) - 391,000 Take Care (2011) - 386,000.... Did these albums release singles in 2020 or something i missed ? Some albums have longevity because of 1/2 huge hits with longevity, some albums remain popular as a whole (gkmc for example). The point being made is that "7 rings" and "than u, next" despite having huge openings/being extremely popular within the first half a year, didn't have good longevity. The album as a whole has decent longevity, but when compared to albums from its range it falls a bit short. P.S: Nothing against Ariana just pointing out stats.
You missed the whole point. TUN and 7 Rings' "lack" of longevity was due to the high turnover rates of her single releases. They simply don't give her singles time to breathe. They move on fast, causing longevity on radio and other metrics to be shortened, and singles longevity on the Hot 100. Rihanna had this same issue earlier in her career. This is why Rih doesn't have higher certified singles like Katy or even Gaga for her biggest hits. Compare the amount of singles/albums released from the artists of those albums you listed to Ariana, and you will have your answer.This really doesn't mean anything. The first project strongerq listed is Billie Eilish's 2017 EP which didn't have any smash hits and yet has managed to move almost 600K units in 2020, 3 years after it's release. Take Care was released 9 years ago and has moved almost 400K units in 2020. Whether the singles off TUN were rushed or not, that has absolutely nothing to do with the overall long-term performance of the album, which is poor, especially when compared with her peers or even those who came after her. Like strongerq pointed out, it's very possible to have an album that has longevity in streaming consumption without it having a major smash hit and the example he listed is the best: Lil Baby's album, 'My Turn.' It's the most consumed album of the year, it's spent the most weeks in the top 10 out of every album released this year and there isn't a single song you can point to as a legitimate hit record on it. The truth of the matter is simple: Ariana's albums serve no sort of longevity whatsoever and you can make the best case of that by using her biggest album so far. Compare that with Billie Eilish's album which came out months later in the same year, debuted with lower figures, but has easily out-charted and outsold TUN, despite TUN having more hits and being the album more tailored towards an appealing mainstream sound.
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nickd
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Post by nickd on Nov 7, 2020 11:58:50 GMT -5
I think it's very difficult for artists to have 5+ smash albums with great longevity. Artists with large dedicated followings can get 5+ big album debuts but I think ultimately there's too much material in those cases for all of it to have amazing recurrent streams.
Billie and Post have great recurrents but also only have 2-3 projects. Get back to me when they have 6...
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