Billboard Hot 100: 04/03/2021

[monkeydluffy]

Mar 28, 2021 21:15:57 GMT -5 @sosalty said:

Mar 28, 2021 11:18:01 GMT -5 phieaglesfan712 said:

I don't see how that is possible. Last week, Dynamite had the Grammys to boost it and was in the teens and 20's most of the week on the iTunes chart. This week, no Grammys boost and it was in the 70's on the iTunes chart for most of the week. Seems fishy to me if it got 41k sales this week and only 26.5k last week.

Here is a piece of advice to help you better predict what to expect from BTS chart performance...pay attention to Army organizing on twitter. There are small countries that don't run as effectively as BTS Army does. Dynamite is a week or so away from breaking two major records. Hell will freeze over before Army lets those opportunities pass by. The sales will be extremely high this week and next week. Also, keep an eye out for their new release called Film Out being released in a few days. It's a Japanese language song for an action movie. It will get high sales and streaming too and will definitely do well on the international charts. 

People getting so worked up over fan supporting musicians through buying their music is so illogical to me. I see people saying Dynamite and other BTS music is supposedly "inorganic," which is nonsense. BTS music (aside from Dynamite) doesn't have their label buying playlisting and spins. People who are BTS fans found them completely organically and have to literally seek out their music specifically in order to buy or stream it. The overwhelming majority of other successful artists' rely heavily on payola and influence to get a lot of spins and playlisting which gives them high charting without listeners seeking those artists out specifically. If anything is inorganic it is charting from having your music just force fed to people without them asking for it. At least with BTS and Dynamite all those people buying are actively seeking out their music specifically. Nothing could be more organic than that. 

Again... as we've discussed this before... There is nothing wrong with people supporting artists and their music. That's never been the issue with you and your comments since you've been apart of Pulse. The issue everyone here has with you is the fact you come on here and spout how they can continue the success by basically admitting how you and your army, as you cannot deny that you are not apart of it due to the "Hell will freeze over before Army lets those opportunities pass by." comment, as well as previous comments, cheat the charts. Then you gloat about all the new stuff and the success BTS is going to have with it, which involves the said methods you continually discuss on here.

Also, your second bolded comment "At least with BTS and Dynamite all those people buying are actively seeking out their music specifically." is incorrect because I definitely recall you last time you were here stating how you and the army find ways to get people who can't get the song ways of finding and purchasing/streaming it. That's not "actively seeking", that's doing whatever you and the army can to manipulate sales and streaming to get success for the song and albums.

We talked about all of this in December last year... why are we still discussing this?

[Deleted]

Mar 28, 2021 22:17:16 GMT -5 Mayman said:

Okay but what I don't understand is why BTS stans always say "they have no radio support!!!!" when Dynamite went top 5 on pop radio when it BOMBED in callouts every single week. Life Goes On hit the top 50 without even being given a proper radio release. Practically every single they've released to pop radio has quickly risen, showing stations are willing to play them, but when they see how listeners respond (negatively), they stop playing the song.

I truly do not understand why BTS stans have this "it's the world vs. us" mindset when this is not the case. They have a solid fanbase, streaming support, radio is willing to play them, and they sell well (not counting the chart manipulation purchases). It is okay for someone to not like BTS, I promise you will be fine.

Dynamite is the only song they have ever had radio support for. Fans have been requesting BTS Korean songs at stations for at least 4 years and radio has refused to play them. The fanbase went all in for Dynamite to demonstrate that BTS does, indeed, have a lot of fans in the US. I'm guessing the callouts were ignored because the stations were actually getting requests from listeners.

As much as many want to deny it, Dynamite is a huge hit. It was not promoted anywhere other than the US, yet it still topped charts all over the world and has won so many awards in places it wasn't even promoted. If it weren't in English US radio would not have played it no matter how much it was requested.

As much as people also like to deny the xenophobia aspect, just consider that German radio host that went on a racist rant over their cover of Fix You by Coldplay. There is a lot of anti-Asian bias that plays into how BTS gets treated and it's been normalized for so long people don't recognize it. Asian culture isn't big on speaking up, either. I do think that some of the negative attitudes towards BTS have a subconscious anti-Asian aspect to it that even those doing it don't realize or probably even mean to have.

Again... as we've discussed this before... There is nothing wrong with people supporting artists and their music. That's never been the issue with you and your comments since you've been apart of Pulse. The issue everyone here has with you is the fact you come on here and spout how they can continue the success by basically admitting how you and your army, as you cannot deny that you are not apart of it due to the "Hell will freeze over before Army lets those opportunities pass by." comment, as well as previous comments, cheat the charts. Then you gloat about all the new stuff and the success BTS is going to have with it, which involves the said methods you continually discuss on here.



Also, your second bolded comment "At least with BTS and Dynamite all those people buying are actively seeking out their music specifically." is incorrect because I definitely recall you last time you were here stating how you and the army find ways to get people who can't get the song ways of finding and purchasing/streaming it. That's not "actively seeking", that's doing whatever you and the army can to manipulate sales and streaming to get success for the song and albums.



We talked about all of this in December last year... why are we still discussing this?

First, I don't accept money from funding accounts. I also have not donated money towards buying Dynamite or albums. I DID donate money to buy a few fellow Armys tickets to the Map Of The Soul ON:E online concert, though. If I were to donate towards purchasing music it would only be specifically for physical albums or first week digital albums. I do consider myself part of BTS Army, along with millions of other people all over the world.

I DO get why some people are annoyed that fans are repeatedly buying Dynamite to support the song. I'm equally annoyed by how much weight radio is given when the overwhelming majority of the songs played get those spins not because of the quality or popularity of the song but because of label influence. I'm also annoyed by the same playlisting politics. I'm 100% fine with eliminating webstore sales when all playlisting is eliminated and only streams of songs a person adds to their own personal playlist counts. There are things we all dislike. Dynamite is still performing well in other countries where it got no promotion, by the way. That's why it's still so high on the global charts. That includes charts that do NOT include US webstore sales.

P.S. fan groups have been collecting funds to help fellow fans buy music for as long as the internet has been a thing. BTS Army isn't the first and won't be the last. Also, if you actually think I'm "gloating" then you are reading way more into what I write than is there. I'm simply attempting to respond in an honest and complete way, despite being on the receiving end of a great deal of passive aggressive, insulting and rude comments. 

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Okay, who’s denying Dynamite was a huge hit? I’d say it was bigger than any singular One Direction hit, for example. I don’t think anyone is saying it wasn’t a hit but stans keep playing victim with that one line.

[Crimsonio]

Mar 29, 2021 0:11:53 GMT -5 @sosalty said:

Mar 28, 2021 22:17:16 GMT -5 Mayman said:

Okay but what I don't understand is why BTS stans always say "they have no radio support!!!!" when Dynamite went top 5 on pop radio when it BOMBED in callouts every single week. Life Goes On hit the top 50 without even being given a proper radio release. Practically every single they've released to pop radio has quickly risen, showing stations are willing to play them, but when they see how listeners respond (negatively), they stop playing the song.

I truly do not understand why BTS stans have this "it's the world vs. us" mindset when this is not the case. They have a solid fanbase, streaming support, radio is willing to play them, and they sell well (not counting the chart manipulation purchases). It is okay for someone to not like BTS, I promise you will be fine.

Dynamite is the only song they have ever had radio support for. Fans have been requesting BTS Korean songs at stations for at least 4 years and radio has refused to play them. The fanbase went all in for Dynamite to demonstrate that BTS does, indeed, have a lot of fans in the US. I'm guessing the callouts were ignored because the stations were actually getting requests from listeners.

As much as many want to deny it, Dynamite is a huge hit. It was not promoted anywhere other than the US, yet it still topped charts all over the world and has won so many awards in places it wasn't even promoted. If it weren't in English US radio would not have played it no matter how much it was requested.

As much as people also like to deny the xenophobia aspect, just consider that German radio host that went on a racist rant over their cover of Fix You by Coldplay. There is a lot of anti-Asian bias that plays into how BTS gets treated and it's been normalized for so long people don't recognize it. Asian culture isn't big on speaking up, either. I do think that some of the negative attitudes towards BTS have a subconscious anti-Asian aspect to it that even those doing it don't realize or probably even mean to have.

Again... as we've discussed this before... There is nothing wrong with people supporting artists and their music. That's never been the issue with you and your comments since you've been apart of Pulse. The issue everyone here has with you is the fact you come on here and spout how they can continue the success by basically admitting how you and your army, as you cannot deny that you are not apart of it due to the "Hell will freeze over before Army lets those opportunities pass by." comment, as well as previous comments, cheat the charts. Then you gloat about all the new stuff and the success BTS is going to have with it, which involves the said methods you continually discuss on here.



Also, your second bolded comment "At least with BTS and Dynamite all those people buying are actively seeking out their music specifically." is incorrect because I definitely recall you last time you were here stating how you and the army find ways to get people who can't get the song ways of finding and purchasing/streaming it. That's not "actively seeking", that's doing whatever you and the army can to manipulate sales and streaming to get success for the song and albums.



We talked about all of this in December last year... why are we still discussing this?

First, I don't accept money from funding accounts. I also have not donated money towards buying Dynamite or albums. I DID donate money to buy a few fellow Armys tickets to the Map Of The Soul ON:E online concert, though. If I were to donate towards purchasing music it would only be specifically for physical albums or first week digital albums. I do consider myself part of BTS Army, along with millions of other people all over the world.

I DO get why some people are annoyed that fans are repeatedly buying Dynamite to support the song. I'm equally annoyed by how much weight radio is given when the overwhelming majority of the songs played get those spins not because of the quality or popularity of the song but because of label influence. I'm also annoyed by the same playlisting politics. I'm 100% fine with eliminating webstore sales when all playlisting is eliminated and only streams of songs a person adds to their own personal playlist counts. There are things we all dislike. Dynamite is still performing well in other countries where it got no promotion, by the way. That's why it's still so high on the global charts. That includes charts that do NOT include US webstore sales.

P.S. fan groups have been collecting funds to help fellow fans buy music for as long as the internet has been a thing. BTS Army isn't the first and won't be the last. Also, if you actually think I'm "gloating" then you are reading way more into what I write than is there. I'm simply attempting to respond in an honest and complete way, despite being on the receiving end of a great deal of passive aggressive, insulting and rude comments.

Have you ever considered logging off and reconsidering your undying wavering and monetary support to a group that will never acknowledge you? Give it up sis.

[Deleted]

Mar 28, 2021 22:30:57 GMT -5 CF15 said:

Mar 28, 2021 21:53:43 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

I appreciate the in-depth answer. My opinion in light of that is that even 75k people repeatedly buying multiple copies is a small fan base manipulating the charts.

It's also not just airplay gatekeeping if the streaming numbers are low, too. Plenty of artists have done well in streaming without radio support.

I don't understand why they don't instead just stream it repeatedly. It would cost them nothing, and could probably get more points in. It makes sense to stream a song you like multiple times, but not to re-purchase a song you already have purchased, especially for something as silly as spending a few additional weeks in the Hot 100 chart.

Personally, I like "Dynamite", and I feel like its "normal" chart run died a bit prematurely, but this could get out of hand if the stans manage to keep it on until its 52nd week (or perhaps even more). I definitely agree with the sentiment that it feels like an unnatural way to affect the chart. If they were to stream the song instead of buying it, then I would totally understand and it wouldn't seem like such an artificial way to extend its chart run. It has already run its course, and it'll probably already make the decade-end chart and certainly the 2021 year-end chart, so it's time to move on.

Probably the easiest answer to that question is that Army typically buys every BTS album in both physical and digital format. We are collectors. Hell, if you had any idea of the amount of things this fanbase sells out in a matter of minutes...everything from stuffed purple whales to a Learn to Speak Korean book kit with a talking pen. After BTS did a commercial, Army pre-ordered so many Hyundai Palisade luxury SUVs they caused a 6-10 month backorder. So, the fans already own all the songs. If you buy your own bowling ball and shoes when you go bowling are you going to use the rentals and house balls? Who wants to listen to ads when you don't have to? So that is why BTS streaming numbers in the US aren't as high. If we already own the songs and we want to show our support in the most effective way, don't mind spending money then people will just choose to buy. Keep in mind, though, even if we couldn't buy, if we had to stream to reach that record we would do it that way instead. The fanbase is very smart and effective, though, so the first choice is always going to be the easiest and more reliable one.

[𝕡𝕙𝕖𝕖𝕓𝕤]

is this meg’s alt

why do all armys have to write a college thesis when replying to someone

[monkeydluffy]

Mar 29, 2021 0:11:53 GMT -5 @sosalty said:

Again... as we've discussed this before... There is nothing wrong with people supporting artists and their music. That's never been the issue with you and your comments since you've been apart of Pulse. The issue everyone here has with you is the fact you come on here and spout how they can continue the success by basically admitting how you and your army, as you cannot deny that you are not apart of it due to the "Hell will freeze over before Army lets those opportunities pass by." comment, as well as previous comments, cheat the charts. Then you gloat about all the new stuff and the success BTS is going to have with it, which involves the said methods you continually discuss on here.



Also, your second bolded comment "At least with BTS and Dynamite all those people buying are actively seeking out their music specifically." is incorrect because I definitely recall you last time you were here stating how you and the army find ways to get people who can't get the song ways of finding and purchasing/streaming it. That's not "actively seeking", that's doing whatever you and the army can to manipulate sales and streaming to get success for the song and albums.



We talked about all of this in December last year... why are we still discussing this?

First, I don't accept money from funding accounts. I also have not donated money towards buying Dynamite or albums. I DID donate money to buy a few fellow Armys tickets to the Map Of The Soul ON:E online concert, though. If I were to donate towards purchasing music it would only be specifically for physical albums or first week digital albums. I do consider myself part of BTS Army, along with millions of other people all over the world.

I DO get why some people are annoyed that fans are repeatedly buying Dynamite to support the song. I'm equally annoyed by how much weight radio is given when the overwhelming majority of the songs played get those spins not because of the quality or popularity of the song but because of label influence. I'm also annoyed by the same playlisting politics. I'm 100% fine with eliminating webstore sales when all playlisting is eliminated and only streams of songs a person adds to their own personal playlist counts. There are things we all dislike. Dynamite is still performing well in other countries where it got no promotion, by the way. That's why it's still so high on the global charts. That includes charts that do NOT include US webstore sales.

P.S. fan groups have been collecting funds to help fellow fans buy music for as long as the internet has been a thing. BTS Army isn't the first and won't be the last. Also, if you actually think I'm "gloating" then you are reading way more into what I write than is there. I'm simply attempting to respond in an honest and complete way, despite being on the receiving end of a great deal of passive aggressive, insulting and rude comments.

Then why write essays to respond to everyone? That will always come across as an over-passionate stan to anyone reading them.

Also, don't play the victim. Most of the time they respond that way because of what you write the first time coming off as a stan, which as previously said, people are tired of coming across on these chart discussion pages. No one logs on here planning to attack you. If you wrote your posts/essays/etc. a little differently, you'd get a lot less of that thrown at you on these pages.

[Enigma.]

It's probably just putting the fave on the pedestal and at the same time rationalizing the fandom in a bizarre way. Like, why can't you just celebrate the artist and the music? BTS are great, but the Army scheming around just to have this one particular song charting until forever is nothing but funny and sad at the same time.

[Deleted]

Mar 29, 2021 1:49:34 GMT -5 monkeydluffy said:

Mar 29, 2021 0:11:53 GMT -5 @sosalty said:

First, I don't accept money from funding accounts. I also have not donated money towards buying Dynamite or albums. I DID donate money to buy a few fellow Armys tickets to the Map Of The Soul ON:E online concert, though. If I were to donate towards purchasing music it would only be specifically for physical albums or first week digital albums. I do consider myself part of BTS Army, along with millions of other people all over the world.

I DO get why some people are annoyed that fans are repeatedly buying Dynamite to support the song. I'm equally annoyed by how much weight radio is given when the overwhelming majority of the songs played get those spins not because of the quality or popularity of the song but because of label influence. I'm also annoyed by the same playlisting politics. I'm 100% fine with eliminating webstore sales when all playlisting is eliminated and only streams of songs a person adds to their own personal playlist counts. There are things we all dislike. Dynamite is still performing well in other countries where it got no promotion, by the way. That's why it's still so high on the global charts. That includes charts that do NOT include US webstore sales.

P.S. fan groups have been collecting funds to help fellow fans buy music for as long as the internet has been a thing. BTS Army isn't the first and won't be the last. Also, if you actually think I'm "gloating" then you are reading way more into what I write than is there. I'm simply attempting to respond in an honest and complete way, despite being on the receiving end of a great deal of passive aggressive, insulting and rude comments.

Then why write essays to respond to everyone? That will always come across as an over-passionate stan to anyone reading them.

Also, don't play the victim. Most of the time they respond that way because of what you write the first time coming off as a stan, which as previously said, people are tired of coming across on these chart discussion pages. No one logs on here planning to attack you. If you wrote your posts/essays/etc. a little differently, you'd get a lot less of that thrown at you on these pages.

Writing properly just matters to some people. I am one of those people. I'm most likely considerably older than most people here. Contrary to what many think, the majority of people who like BTS are not young girls, although there is nothing wrong with young girls being fans of male musicians that isn't also wrong with adult and middle aged male sports fans. I like them because their music is good, their lyrics are very meaningful and include concepts from literature and psychology. They are also extremely altruistic, good/kind people who inspire their fans to do amazing things to help make the world a better place through charity. Perhaps the real problem may be in the assumptions and stereotypes people have about why people like BTS. They are so popular and their fans are so loyal because they are genuinely GOOD human beings who happen to be very talented and make great music. It really is that simple.

As for the "stop being a victim" bit...if you are referring to me pointing out that I'm on the receiving end of the types of posts I mentioned that's nothing more than stating facts. That comment was also not directed at your reply to me. It was in reference to posts I don't reply to. 

It's probably just putting the fave on the pedestal and at the same time rationalizing the fandom in a bizarre way. Like, why can't you just celebrate the artist and the music? BTS are great, but the Army scheming around just to have this one particular song charting until forever is nothing but funny and sad at the same time.

I am much too old to put anyone on a pedestal. What I'm doing is attempting to explain why BTS fans do the things some don't understand. The goal isn't to chart Dynamite forever. It wasn't even originally to break the records it's about to break. Something just happened nearly every week to cause the fanbase to either have reason to celebrate or be extremely angry. Army celebrates by buying their music and they retaliate when angry by buying their music, lol. The people annoyed by Dynamite charting just should pray Dynamite doesn't turn into Spring Day pt.2. That song has been charting in South Korea for over 4 years. It is about the Sewol Ferry disaster that killed hundreds of high school kids, though, so it's an extremely meaningful song there.

[Enigma.]

Ok, but that does not explain why you would buy Dynamite 25 times?

[monkeydluffy]

Mar 29, 2021 2:09:22 GMT -5 @sosalty said:

Mar 29, 2021 1:49:34 GMT -5 monkeydluffy said:

Then why write essays to respond to everyone? That will always come across as an over-passionate stan to anyone reading them.

Also, don't play the victim. Most of the time they respond that way because of what you write the first time coming off as a stan, which as previously said, people are tired of coming across on these chart discussion pages. No one logs on here planning to attack you. If you wrote your posts/essays/etc. a little differently, you'd get a lot less of that thrown at you on these pages.

Writing properly just matters to some people. I am one of those people. I'm most likely considerably older than most people here. Contrary to what many think, the majority of people who like BTS are not young girls, although there is nothing wrong with young girls being fans of male musicians that isn't also wrong with adult and middle aged male sports fans. I like them because their music is good, their lyrics are very meaningful and include concepts from literature and psychology. They are also extremely altruistic, good/kind people who inspire their fans to do amazing things to help make the world a better place through charity. Perhaps the real problem may be in the assumptions and stereotypes people have about why people like BTS. They are so popular and their fans are so loyal because they are genuinely GOOD human beings who happen to be very talented and make great music. It really is that simple.

As for the "stop being a victim" bit...if you are referring to me pointing out that I'm on the receiving end of the types of posts I mentioned that's nothing more than stating facts. That comment was also not directed at your reply to me. It was in reference to posts I don't reply to. 

I live in Seoul. I am aware of what BTS does for their fans and the world. They do a lot for mental health and Korea as a country, similar to what Son Heung Min does for Korea concerning soccer. They are very talented and I am also aware of the process of becoming an idol in itself. It's a very trying process that only the best get selected for.

But again, that's not the issue here. We here don't have a problem with the group BTS themselves, they just make music and never have they asked for anything from the public in return. They truly are great people. It's the fans/stans that come here and treat them like Gods and explain how they mass buy the products, WHICH AGAIN, is the main thing everyone has stated the problem is. Defending them over and over again isn't going to change what and how you post.

[Deleted]

Mar 29, 2021 2:26:00 GMT -5 monkeydluffy said:

Mar 29, 2021 2:09:22 GMT -5 @sosalty said:

Writing properly just matters to some people. I am one of those people. I'm most likely considerably older than most people here. Contrary to what many think, the majority of people who like BTS are not young girls, although there is nothing wrong with young girls being fans of male musicians that isn't also wrong with adult and middle aged male sports fans. I like them because their music is good, their lyrics are very meaningful and include concepts from literature and psychology. They are also extremely altruistic, good/kind people who inspire their fans to do amazing things to help make the world a better place through charity. Perhaps the real problem may be in the assumptions and stereotypes people have about why people like BTS. They are so popular and their fans are so loyal because they are genuinely GOOD human beings who happen to be very talented and make great music. It really is that simple.

As for the "stop being a victim" bit...if you are referring to me pointing out that I'm on the receiving end of the types of posts I mentioned that's nothing more than stating facts. That comment was also not directed at your reply to me. It was in reference to posts I don't reply to. 

I live in Seoul. I am aware of what BTS does for their fans and the world. They do a lot for mental health and Korea as a country, similar to what Son Heung Min does for Korea concerning soccer. They are very talented and I am also aware of the process of becoming an idol in itself. It's a very trying process that only the best get selected for.

But again, that's not the issue here. We here don't have a problem with the group BTS themselves, they just make music and never have they asked for anything from the public in return. They truly are great people. It's the fans/stans that come here and treat them like Gods and explain how they mass buy the products, WHICH AGAIN, is the main thing everyone has stated the problem is. Defending them over and over again isn't going to change what and how you post.

Here's the thing...the only reason I even joined here is because after lurking off and on since as far back as season 5 of American Idol I came to read and saw people bashing the bejesus out of BTS and Dynamite from debut week, and there were NOT any "stans" of BTS here because people's sign ups weren't being processed. If not for whoever hacked the site and approved everyone there still wouldn't be. There were people on here hating on BTS day after day. So yeah, when I first was able to post I had something to say about it. So no, I don't think they are "Gods." I think they are good and talented people whose music and message inspires and helps many and they don't deserve being bashed without anyone speaking up to say who they really are. 

Again, I do get why people are bothered by people buying multiple copies of the same song to help song charting. Do you also get why powerful labels using payola and favors to bribe their way onto playlists and top radio spins bothers me and why I don't think that is fair or truly representative of what people like and are listening to? To me, these are just two sides of the same coin. For me it comes down to who should have more say in what listeners like best...fans or labels? As long as labels control streaming numbers and airplay to the extent they do, the only thing fans/listeners have complete control over is sales. If fans can't buy a song's way onto the charts then why can labels bribe and buy a song's way onto the charts? I still haven't seen anyone even attempt to address that question.

Ok, but that does not explain why you would buy Dynamite 25 times?

If I just buy Dynamite 25 times instead of streaming many more times and having to listen to ads and songs Spotify gets paid to try to force feed me that I don't like or want to listen to then I'm going to buy instead. IF I didn't have the choice to buy then I would use my 9 devices to stream instead. I also don't usually buy Dynamite anymore. I only buy it now when I'm extremely angry or if there is a specific goal like breaking these two records.

[monkeydluffy]

Mar 29, 2021 2:58:20 GMT -5 @sosalty said:

Mar 29, 2021 2:26:00 GMT -5 monkeydluffy said:

I live in Seoul. I am aware of what BTS does for their fans and the world. They do a lot for mental health and Korea as a country, similar to what Son Heung Min does for Korea concerning soccer. They are very talented and I am also aware of the process of becoming an idol in itself. It's a very trying process that only the best get selected for.

But again, that's not the issue here. We here don't have a problem with the group BTS themselves, they just make music and never have they asked for anything from the public in return. They truly are great people. It's the fans/stans that come here and treat them like Gods and explain how they mass buy the products, WHICH AGAIN, is the main thing everyone has stated the problem is. Defending them over and over again isn't going to change what and how you post.

Here's the thing...the only reason I even joined here is because after lurking off and on since as far back as season 5 of American Idol I came to read and saw people bashing the bejesus out of BTS and Dynamite from debut week, and there were NOT any "stans" of BTS here because people's sign ups weren't being processed. If not for whoever hacked the site and approved everyone there still wouldn't be. There were people on here hating on BTS day after day. So yeah, when I first was able to post I had something to say about it. So no, I don't think they are "Gods." I think they are good and talented people whose music and message inspires and helps many and they don't deserve being bashed without anyone speaking up to say who they really are. 

Again, I do get why people are bothered by people buying multiple copies of the same song to help song charting. Do you also get why powerful labels using payola and favors to bribe their way onto playlists and top radio spins bothers me and why I don't think that is fair or truly representative of what people like and are listening to? To me, these are just two sides of the same coin. For me it comes down to who should have more say in what listeners like best...fans or labels? As long as labels control streaming numbers and airplay to the extent they do, the only thing fans/listeners have complete control over is sales. If fans can't buy a song's way onto the charts then why can labels bribe and buy a song's way onto the charts? I still haven't seen anyone even attempt to address that question.

Ok, but that does not explain why you would buy Dynamite 25 times?

If I just buy Dynamite 25 times instead of streaming many more times and having to listen to ads and songs Spotify gets paid to try to force feed me that I don't like or want to listen to then I'm going to buy instead. IF I didn't have the choice to buy then I would use my 9 devices to stream instead. I also don't usually buy Dynamite anymore. I only buy it now when I'm extremely angry or if there is a specific goal like breaking these two records.

No one is bashing them, I... you know what, it’s useless. You are STILL not understanding what I’m trying to say. You keep repeating the same thing over and over again without understanding anything. You went on another 2 paragraph rant while still missing the point: No one is hating on the group themselves, they're hating the process of how the stans are buying everything. Read the posts for once instead of going straight into defense mode when someone hates something about them.

[korbel16]

Not this...

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Some of college thesis defenses aren't this well prepared. How are ARMY stans this crazy?

[iwin]

Mar 29, 2021 5:15:47 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

Some of college thesis defenses aren't this well prepared. How are ARMY stans this crazy?

Man,im an army myself but damn even i get surprised by how defensive some armys get over bts for no reason

[Normi]

I'm not reading any of that.

[jthentic]

Man wt fuckin fuck is this? How can y'all find time / patience to write these long-ass scripts?
I've read a several research articles even they can't write that well structured, defensive piece like y'all do with little/no evidence filled with pages of same bs. RESPECT 👏

[GP]

Now I get why I stopped going into weekly chart threads

[Mayman]

Mar 29, 2021 0:11:53 GMT -5 @sosalty said:

Mar 28, 2021 22:17:16 GMT -5 Mayman said:

Okay but what I don't understand is why BTS stans always say "they have no radio support!!!!" when Dynamite went top 5 on pop radio when it BOMBED in callouts every single week. Life Goes On hit the top 50 without even being given a proper radio release. Practically every single they've released to pop radio has quickly risen, showing stations are willing to play them, but when they see how listeners respond (negatively), they stop playing the song.

I truly do not understand why BTS stans have this "it's the world vs. us" mindset when this is not the case. They have a solid fanbase, streaming support, radio is willing to play them, and they sell well (not counting the chart manipulation purchases). It is okay for someone to not like BTS, I promise you will be fine.

Dynamite is the only song they have ever had radio support for. Fans have been requesting BTS Korean songs at stations for at least 4 years and radio has refused to play them. The fanbase went all in for Dynamite to demonstrate that BTS does, indeed, have a lot of fans in the US. I'm guessing the callouts were ignored because the stations were actually getting requests from listeners.

As much as many want to deny it, Dynamite is a huge hit. It was not promoted anywhere other than the US, yet it still topped charts all over the world and has won so many awards in places it wasn't even promoted. If it weren't in English US radio would not have played it no matter how much it was requested.

As much as people also like to deny the xenophobia aspect, just consider that German radio host that went on a racist rant over their cover of Fix You by Coldplay. There is a lot of anti-Asian bias that plays into how BTS gets treated and it's been normalized for so long people don't recognize it. Asian culture isn't big on speaking up, either. I do think that some of the negative attitudes towards BTS have a subconscious anti-Asian aspect to it that even those doing it don't realize or probably even mean to have.

I don't know why you are so insecure about Dynamite's success. You just further proved my point when I said BTS stans have this "it's the world vs. us" mindset. I understand that Dynamite was a huge hit. We all get that. Us pointing out flaws in Dynamite's success isn't just for that song. We discuss chart manipulation from songs like Say So, Trollz, Franchise, Willow, Cardigan, Stuck With U, Savage Love, etc.

BTS Pop Radio Chart History:

#5. Dynamite
#20. Boy With Luv
#23. Make It Right
#24. Mic Drop
#33. Fake Love
#42. Idol
#47. On
#49. Life Goes On (wasn't officially released to pop radio)

I would like to say that, once again, pop radio does play BTS. They play their songs a good amount when they are released. This could be due to requests, high interest, or them just wanting to see how listeners to respond. Requests will not make a song last forever, because stations need to see how their actual listeners respond. If their listeners do not respond well to a song, they more than likely will drop it. Radio stations wants listeners to say tuned in for advertisers as well, because that's how they make most of their money. Less listeners = less money from advertisers.

Radio stations also understand that when they receive a bunch of requests for a song that are coming in from a fan base, a lot of those people aren't actually listening to that station. They obviously are not going to play songs from people who won't even tune in.

A majority of BTS songs also do not have great longevity, besides Dynamite. Radio typically will keep a song going if they have good sustained sales and streams. As we have seen with most BTS songs, they start out great with sales and streams, which radio responds to by playing their songs well out of the gate. After a month or two, those same songs do not sell or stream as well, so radio will respond by lowering the spins for the song or dropping them altogether.

You have to remember the K-Pop is still rising in the United States. Listeners will need time to get used to that sound, which Dynamite likely helped with. It's still a genre that listeners are not used to and they may not want to hear among the likes of "I Don't Care" and "Blinding Lights". Pop radio has different demographics than people who enjoy K-Pop and/or BTS.

If you're going to respond to my comment, please do NOT act like the victim of anything. I am not hating on BTS. You can save the playing the victim posts for someone else.

[𝕡𝕙𝕖𝕖𝕓𝕤]

sneep snorp

[Mayman]

oh gosh i'm falling into their trap sorry for the college application essay you guys 😭

[notgoodenglish]

Mar 28, 2021 11:10:37 GMT -5 Soulsista said:

Billboard Top 10 Flashback:

April 2, 2011

01 01 Born This Way - Lady Gaga (6th and final week at #1)
02 03 E.T. - Katy Perry feat. Kanye West
03 04 S&M - Rihanna

I just want to point out that epic Top 3, with crazy GaGa, Teenage Dream Katy and red hair Rihanna being number one, two and three respectively. They truly dominate early 10s, ooh gosh i miss that time.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Mar 29, 2021 2:58:20 GMT -5 @sosalty said:

If I just buy Dynamite 25 times instead of streaming many more times and having to listen to ads and songs Spotify gets paid to try to force feed me that I don't like or want to listen to then I'm going to buy instead. IF I didn't have the choice to buy then I would use my 9 devices to stream instead. I also don't usually buy Dynamite anymore. I only buy it now when I'm extremely angry or if there is a specific goal like breaking these two records.

This isn’t meant to be shady or anything but I actually wonder if any research has been done on stan culture because reading the back and forth, particularly sections like these, sound like a mental disorder, like an obsession or addiction. It’s one thing to want to prop up your favs and engage in social media foolishness, but some of this stuff is whole other level and just not healthy. 😕

[tuna]

I like how Popcentaur is saying "If I didn't have the choice to buy then I would use my 9 devices to stream instead." like that's a more normal and understandable thing to do

[jenglisbe]

Mar 28, 2021 22:09:40 GMT -5 @sosalty said:

Mar 28, 2021 21:53:43 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

I appreciate the in-depth answer. My opinion in light of that is that even 75k people repeatedly buying multiple copies is a small fan base manipulating the charts.

It's also not just airplay gatekeeping if the streaming numbers are low, too. Plenty of artists have done well in streaming without radio support.

Here's the way I see it, being someone who has been around for a very, very long time. (Yes, I used to actually have 8 tracks, lol) Labels using payola for spins and playlisting is chart manipulation. Bundles was chart manipulation. Using repeated gimmicks to re-release the same album to sell more is chart manipulation. EVERY label and fanbase uses their strengths/advantages to support their artists to help them be more successful. Frankly, I can't think of a single artist that wouldn't rather have fans that love and support them so much that they will buy the same song more than once to do well on charts than have their label essentially bribe playlisting and radio stations to do well on charts. At the end of the day, it's all the same thing. So why is there so much animosity towards BTS and their fans for fighting hard to make up for the radio gatekeeping? I mean, look at the IFPI results from 2020. Globally BTS had the #s 1 and 4 album globally that included streams. They had #1,2 and 8 albums on sales were the #1 artist and Dynamite was the #10 song in the world with literally ZERO promotion anywhere except in the US. When radio starts honoring our years worth of requests and play the Korean songs too maybe we won't feel compelled to keep buying to make sure their music gets the recognition it deserves. 

I don't like any manipulation and it all keeps the chart from being pure. I don't really see anyone saying payola is ok. It's more that the mass buying and other sales gimmicks are new (again) whereas other manipulation has been around forever so the passion against it isn't as intense. There has been plenty of criticism on these boards of other web site sales and gimmicks with bundles, signed copies, etc so this isn't only about BTS. BTS fans are getting criticism right now because of what rimetm wrote.

As for you assuming radio is blocking them because Korean fans are requesting them at radio seems like a stretch. First of all, are these fans only requesting in the area where they live, or are they requesting outside where they live and thus programmers have no reason to support those requests? Also, programmers are looking beyond an act's core audience. If callout scores and the like are low, they aren't going to play a song just because stans band together to request.

[tuna]

Mar 29, 2021 9:09:55 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

This isn’t meant to be shady or anything but I actually wonder if any research has been done on stan culture because reading the back and forth, particularly sections like these, sound like a mental disorder, like an obsession or addiction.

Typically this is only brought up with Minecraft stans but there is a legitimate mental disorder called hyperfixation that's related to stan culture. It basically means extreme focus on a single person/piece of media for extended periods of time, usually it's associated with Autism and ADHD

[Gary]

So why do we think the BTS fanbase is not large enough to support 20K sales a week for weeks on end?
Why do we think it is the same small group of people with deep pockets buying up this song week after week?

If it were chart manipulation, back when sales were dominant, there were filters in place to correct for mass buying. Maybe there isn't anymore? How do we know?


Banning or limiting website sales and anything that doesn't come from streaming or itunes as has been suggested seems like another form of chart manipulation.

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

kworb's Billboard Radio Songs Estimates 2021/03/29

1(=) Olivia Rodrigo - drivers license 121.62(+0.15)
2(=) Pop Smoke - What You Know Bout Love 104.39(+0.40) +
3(=) Chris Brown & Young Thug - Go Crazy 101.67(-0.24) +
4(=) Billie Eilish - Therefore I Am 98.67(+0.13) +
5(=) Ariana Grande - 34+35 94.40(-1.37)
6(=) Ariana Grande - positions 90.39(-0.26)
7(=) 24kGoldn - Mood (feat. iann dior) 89.42(-0.41)
8(=) Ritt Momney - Put Your Records On 85.46(+0.03)
9(=) The Weeknd - Blinding Lights 84.91(-0.20)
10(=) Bruno Mars, Anderson .Paak & Silk Sonic - Leave The Door Open 83.24(+1.57)

11(=) The Weeknd - Save Your Tears 80.37(+0.78)

15(=) Dua Lipa - Levitating (feat. DaBaby) 60.35(+0.86) +

20(+4) Florida Georgia Line - Long Live 50.44(+0.83)

34(+2) Maroon 5 & Megan Thee Stallion - Beautiful Mistakes 43.38(+0.74)

62(+4) Travis Scott & HVME - Goosebumps (Remix) 27.39(+0.75)

74(+12) Justin Bieber - Peaches (feat. Daniel Caesar & GIVĒON) 22.44(+3.08)

75(+5) SZA - Good Days 22.22(+0.87)

76(+3) Lil Tjay & 6LACK - Calling My Phone 22.19(+0.81)

91(+5) Masked Wolf - Astronaut In The Ocean 18.09(+1.09)

95(+8) J Balvin - Tu Veneno 17.57(+1.33)

-(-) AJR - Way Less Sad 13.49(+0.91)

-(-) Weezer - All My Favorite Songs 6.38(+0.72) +

-(-) Kali Uchis - telepatía 4.81(+1.81) +

-(-)Ariana Grande - pov 4.74(+0.88)

-(-) Victor Manuelle & La India - Victimas Las Dos 3.62(+1.22) +

-(-) Nasty C - Black & White f/Ari Lennox 1.96(+1.49) +

-(-) Riton & Nightcrawlers - Friday (feat. Mufasa & Hypeman) [Dopamine Re-Edit] 1.52(+1.49) +

[After Minutes]

So I didn't check pulse for like a day and from what I'm getting someone wrote their college thesis on BTS?