Follow-up eras to a massive album era you consider weak

[wjr15]

This thread was inspired by the “Which massive album eras do you think are weak” thread.

Each of these eras are the follow ups to the biggest female album eras of the past decade. All of them were a step-down commercially from their previous endeavors but all of them were still successful with each producing multiple hits and at least one #1 single.

Which of these album eras do you consider weak based on album quality, single choices, music style, legacy, commercial performance, etc.

[back2blk]

I would say Adele's era didn't do much damage after Hello, for how big the launch of that era was.

[Edith Puthie]

Aug 5, 2021 15:14:21 GMT -5 back2blk said:

I would say Adele's era didn't do much damage after Hello, for how big the launch of that era was.

25 is the 2nd biggest-selling album by a female artist within a calendar year, ever.  And it charted for 3.5 years.  And has been certified 11x Platinum.   That's a weak era to you?

[kimberly]

the obvious answer here is reputation. even though I did play the shit out of it then, it has aged horribly & is bottom of the barrel in Taylor's discography. (all three albums she's released since then have been much better, too.)

I think I also agree with back2blk 's sentiment regarding 25. that project had a weird rollout, perhaps because it came out right at the cusp of the transition between the digital sales and streaming eras. had that project had some time pre-release, it could have birthed more hit singles for Adele, but instead, it ended up having a No. 1 single, a No. 8 single, a No. 14, and a No. 26. some other options here (like PRISM and Positions) were more impactful with their singles, so 25 pales in comparison for me.

[kcdawg13]

Can I add in Changes by Justin Bieber? It's crazy how he went from such a strong record with Purpose and laid down some pop classics like Sorry and then ended up following it up 5 years later with Yummy.

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

 at people voting for the most streamed female album of all time...

[Lost In Musical Reverie]

Voting for "Prism", especially given the standard set by the "Teenage Dream" era, with extremely strong singles and equally iconic music videos, plus a creative and fun aesthetic throughout. Outside of the Kanye West remix of "E.T", there weren't any misses in my eyes. Even "Part Of Me", despite being rather generic, was an effective post-divorce statement.

Meanwhile, "Prism" already began underwhelming with "Roar", which felt like such an artistic regression from her part, especially after the promising videos teasing a darker era, which literally showed her disowning her playful "Teenage Dream" visuals and imagery.





I'll give Katy credit for the music video, though, which is one of her best, and does elevate the song for me due to nostalgia. But on an objective note, it's her rehashing the empowerment anthems of "Firework" and "Part Of Me" under a different aesthetic. However, she hinted at a new direction with the following single, "Unconditionally" - a mature ballad with a visually beautiful and sophisticated music video.

Sadly, it underperformed to her standards, and then came "Dark Horse", another underwhelming song, but this time with a cheap and tacky music video to back it up. There were redeeming elements to the tune, but the premise makes no sense, and it's the definition of style over substance, something Katy usually succeeded at balancing. Mind you, this is just my opinion, and the GP obviously disagreed, since it became her biggest charting hit. As we all know, things started to go south afterwards, when the infectious "Birthday" was cursed with that awful music video, and instead of pushing "Walking On Air", Katy and her team opted for the messy "This Is How We Do", which was pretty much destined to flop.

Much like other projects here, this era was harmed by poor single choices, and it's a shame, since the album had a fair share of great tracks, even if not necessarily radio-friendly. However, what influences my vote is the lack of direction - both visually and sonically - with the singles feeling more like attempts to recapture the "Teenage Dream" flame than doing something different. Say what you want about "Born This Way" and "reputation", but they had a clear direction and aim, and they succeeded on that regard.

Dishonorable mention to "Talk That Talk", which was very poorly handled after "We Found Love". I'm not familiar enough with the era and album to make an appropriate judgment, but its baffling how the title track and "Cockiness" never got music videos - and the less said about the "Birthday Cake" remix, the better. Overall, compared to "Loud", it really just pales in comparison, but at least we could see some interesting progression and experimentation from the singles, and the music videos we got were all excellent.

[mkarns]

Aug 5, 2021 18:10:42 GMT -5 kcdawg13 said:

Can I add in Changes by Justin Bieber? It's crazy how he went from such a strong record with Purpose and laid down some pop classics like Sorry and then ended up following it up 5 years later with Yummy.

This is concentrating on female album eras, but I guess you could make a case for Changes being a falloff, as "Yummy" became the near-definition of a underperforming leadoff single, though "Intentions" at least salvaged something more from the era, and he swiftly followed it with Justice, which has produced more hits though it of course remains to be seen if any will be considered "pop classics".

[toomuchboy]

Born This Way and reputation for sure. Not only did they take their sound in a direction I had no desire for, they weren't good at it either.

[Glove Slap]

From these, it's Talk That Talk.

Changes was mentioned, and that outdoes all of these on that front. And from the 00s, I'd say Mariah's followup to TEOM was also a bigger step down than these despite at #1.

[mkarns]

Aug 6, 2021 14:17:16 GMT -5 Glove Slap said:

From these, it's Talk That Talk.

Changes was mentioned, and that outdoes all of these on that front. And from the 00s, I'd say Mariah's followup to TEOM was also a bigger step down than these despite at #1.

Also from the 00s, Kelly Clarkson going from Breakaway to My December was quite a downward step, at least commercially, though she wasn't exactly trying to replicate its success (which even a Breakaway clone probably wouldn't have done) and more hits and career successes followed it.

[#brayden]

Album quality - I'd say Prism is the weakest album front to back here.

Single choices - I feel like arguments could be made for all of these, but I'll say Talk That Talk

Music style - Prism is the weakest/worst style IMO.

Legacy - Although "We Found Love" was a massive hit, I don't think Talk That Talk the album was a really defining era as a whole in Rihanna's career. So I'll give it to that one. Maybe Positions will be looked back on similarly in the future but it's too early to tell.

Commercial performance - Well it's definitely not Adele, Gaga, Taylor or Katy. I'm going to say Positions here... just because I feel like "We Found Love" and "Where Have You Been" were bigger than "positions" and "34+35."

Overall: Based on all that... Talk That Talk is the weakest for me.

[Lost In Musical Reverie]

Aug 6, 2021 14:17:16 GMT -5 Glove Slap said:

From these, it's Talk That Talk.

Changes was mentioned, and that outdoes all of these on that front. And from the 00s, I'd say Mariah's followup to TEOM was also a bigger step down than these despite at #1.

As far as album eras from male artists go, "Changes" is definitely up there among the biggest downgrades from a previous career peak - especially quality-wise. However, he did have the collaborations era in-between ("Let Me Love You", "Cold Water", "Despacito" remix, "No Brainer", "I'm The One"), so it didn't feel as direct, I guess. Hope you can see where I'm coming from. Similar to how I'd struggle with "Revival" -> "Rare"  given how Selena was still very active during this 5-year gap.

And yes, as much as I enjoy the album, the "E=MC^2" era was very poorly handled post-"Touch My Body", and it's such a shame, given the potential of songs like "I'm That Chick", "Side Effects", and "Migrate". However, the biggest step down from the 2000s is definitely "All For You" to "Damita Jo" - from two #1s and one #3 hit to no song even cracking the top 40. Sadly, its underperformance was completely unrelated to quality or single choices, as we all know... 😔

Aug 6, 2021 15:03:10 GMT -5 #brayden said:

Album quality - I'd say Prism is the weakest album front to back here.

Single choices - I feel like arguments could be made for all of these, but I'll say Talk That Talk

Music style - Prism is the weakest/worst style IMO.

Legacy - Although "We Found Love" was a massive hit, I don't think Talk That Talk the album was a really defining era as a whole in Rihanna's career. So I'll give it to that one. Maybe Positions will be looked back on similarly in the future but it's too early to tell.

Commercial performance - Well it's definitely not Adele, Gaga, Taylor or Katy. I'm going to say Positions here... just because I feel like "We Found Love" and "Where Have You Been" were bigger than "positions" and "34+35."

Overall: Based on all that... Talk That Talk is the weakest for me.

Great idea to base your assessment on each individual criteria suggested by the OP. And indeed, arguments could be made for all albums here having poor single choices (except "Born This Way", I guess - the title track aged poorly but was a powerful statement, and I adore the other three singles; oh, and there's "Judas", but it's still more inspired than "Roar", SML (TYNL), and WHYB + much less questionable than TIHWD, LWYMMD, and making a Chris Brown remix for "Birthday Cake"). Legacy is debatable too, but Rihanna is helped by the fact "We Found Love" was so influential to EDM, in my opinion, at least. And as much as I love the album, "positions" is very likely to end up as a footnote on Ariana's discography in the long-term, especially after her team fumbling "pov" 's potential.

[.indulgecountry]

Talk That Talk and Prism

I remember the 1-2-3 punch of GGGB/Rated R/Loud making me into a Rihanna stan and then 'Talk' abruptly halted that train and I haven't been a stan since (still a fan of hers ofc, but not like I was during that 3-album stretch prior). And Prism was the most noticeably not up to par for replicating the massive success of Katy's TD era, despite having some great songs (some of which were not singles as they should have been).

[Choco]

TTT gets a pass mostly from "We Found Love", but it was handled terribly. Prism had two huge hits but the single selection was tragic as well.

Positions was so boring to follow. There was very little effort to make it a big deal and it showed. But I don't think it was that weak and ultimately she'll be OK.

[degen]

To me it’s about effort and Ariana put the least amount of effort here.

[kcdawg13]

Aug 7, 2021 15:09:43 GMT -5 degen said:

To me it’s about effort and Ariana put the least amount of effort here.

Unpopular opinion: positions is the better record than sweetener, the singles from the latter record are the only good songs on it. Although thank u, next is better than both of them and is Ariana's best album period. 

[jenglisbe]

Considering the huge sales of 25 and Prism producing two huge #1s, I don't see how anyone can think of them as "weak."

[.indulgecountry]

Aug 8, 2021 5:51:30 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Considering the huge sales of 25 and Prism producing two huge #1s, I don't see how anyone can think of them as "weak."

The criteria of the OP was just that they were a step down commercially from the album eras that preceded them, and all of them were to varying degrees. Adele's album sold incredibly but the singles didn't impact as strongly as 21 and Prism produced 2 huge #1s and a handful of others that left minor impacts, after an era that had 7 smash hits. I didn't vote for Adele, but Katy's era stands out as weak to me as far as the overall singles run goes and it certainly didn't put her in a good spot by the time Witness came around.

[iHype.]

Quality wise: 25
Commercial wise: I think Born this Way or Reputation had the biggest declines on paper comparatively to their predecessor's numbers, but none of these albums were really a BIG decline. They were all small declines or pretty moderate which is the best you can ask for after such a massive predecessor.

[Lost In Musical Reverie]

Aug 8, 2021 5:51:30 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Considering the huge sales of 25 and Prism producing two huge #1s, I don't see how anyone can think of them as "weak."

I understand where you're coming from on the commercial success standpoint (the most objective one), but arguments could be made against both albums on the other criteria mentioned by the OP, which makes this thread much more interesting and driven on subjectivity.

Backing up my pick, yes, "Prism" produced two massive #1 hits, but quality-wise, I think they were both pretty poor and didn't represent her artistic growth on the album, and I wouldn't be surprised if the GP started thinking Katy was relying on style over substance, further reflected by the failed video for "Birthday" and everything surrounding "This Is How We Do" 's promo cycle. That's just my opinion on it, of course, elaborated on a post above.

[Normi]

Lol Talk That Talk abd Prism are my favorite albums for both acts ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Fears in the Fire]

In terms of chart performance? Reputation for sure, also BTW. Talk That and 25 were disappointments aside from their leads.
In terms of quality? Positions positions positions

[Deleted]

Born This Way: 1 huge single, frontloaded album release with massive hype, and 2 more decently successful singles. 

Talk That Talk: WFL wasn't originally made for the album (but was huge), minimal hype, WHYB the only other top ten.

Prism: Although had 3 commercial underperformances all singles reached top 25, two iconic diamond singles, moderate hype. 

25: Massive lead, absolute sales monster with insane hype, another well-performing top ten single. 

reputation: All singles were frontloaded except the elongated Delicate, lots of hype & cultural remark, impressive sales. 

Positions: Positions/34+35 are big hits, mediocre sales, seems like droplets are more impactful however. 


Notice how all of these album eras follow each artists' most successful? The Fame/Monster is one of the largest eras this century. Teenage Dream, 1989, and 21 were each in a league of their own. thank u, next and Loud also reached considerable success. A decline was inevitable for all of them. 

To answer your question, I think Prism or reputation was the most significant decline. 

[Positive Tension]

Rihanna - Talk That Talk. Other than "We Found Love," I was extremely underwhelmed and thought it was pretty weak. She won me back over with Unapologetic.

[SPRΞΞ]

Aug 8, 2021 16:18:34 GMT -5 Lost In Musical Reverie said:

Aug 8, 2021 5:51:30 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Considering the huge sales of 25 and Prism producing two huge #1s, I don't see how anyone can think of them as "weak."

I understand where you're coming from on the commercial success standpoint (the most objective one), but arguments could be made against both albums on the other criteria mentioned by the OP, which makes this thread much more interesting and driven on subjectivity.

Backing up my pick, yes, "Prism" produced two massive #1 hits, but quality-wise, I think they were both pretty poor and didn't represent her artistic growth on the album, and I wouldn't be surprised if the GP started thinking Katy was relying on style over substance, further reflected by the failed video for "Birthday" and everything surrounding "This Is How We Do" 's promo cycle. That's just my opinion on it, of course, elaborated on a post above.

wait wait wait wait wait.....how on earth is Dark Horse not quality? I know this is subjective, but you clearly are in the minority on that one. Didn't Dark Horse break streaming records at the time?

[Deleted]

Gaga, Rihanna, Adele, and Ariana.

[Au$tin]

Album quality
Biggest decrease in quality from prior album to album on the list goes to PRISM. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. PRISM is still a enjoyable album, but it came after Teenage Dream, so...

Single choices
Oh god reputation and PRISM both stand out here. Make no mistake, I believe most of these albums had questionable single choices, but Taylor and Katy definitely had the worst ones. Unconditionally and This Is How We Do when International Smile and Legendary Lovers were right there? And rep... RFI and End Game were not it, particularly End Game. LWYMMD was necessary to set the tone and Delicate set the album back on a decent track, but those other two? And throwing Gorgeous out there as the buzz track/maybe 3rd single was even more bizarre. Call It What You Want, Getaway Car, and DWYHT were screaming to be released.

Music style
Hm. This one I think is up in the air. I don't think any of these in particular were that major of a style change from their previous albums. Born This Way probably saw the most change, but I personally believe it was a good direction for Gaga to go down. Positions is also in the same boat. TTT and 25 basically aren't changes at all. I'll just call this one a draw.

Legacy
BTW gave us the gay title anthem, but that doesn't quite match Poker Face/Bad Romance.
TTT gave us one of Rihanna's most well known hits We Found Love, bigger than anything from Loud, but Loud's 1-2-3 punch of Only Girl, What's My Name, and S&M as a whole is bigger.
Prism - Similar to TTT actually. Dark Horse is massive and Roar continues to live on as well, but TD gave us plenty of iconic hits and looks.
25 - Hello and this album's release are defining pop culture moments, but 21 was even more monumental.
rep - Gave us LWYMMD's moment, but... 1989.
positions - Maybe this one is too new, but I feel like nothing here compares to tun despite spawning respectable hits.
So I'd have to say here it goes to either rep or positions. Sure the falls from TD to Prism and 21 to 25 are big, but that was inevitable given they were coming off of the biggest album cycles of the decade. I'd give the edge here to positions.

Commercial performance
It's rep. No doubt about it. 1989 spawned 5 massive hits. The first 3 rep singles made large impacts as first but flailed and died quickly. Delicate was a slow burn, but wasn't ever that big. The fall there was absolutely the biggest.

My vote goes for rep and the fall from 1989 to rep really was pretty big. Now you may say "Well, Austin, you already mentioned the unfairness to compare 25 to 21 and Prism to Teenage Dream, but 1989 was just as monumental as those two." Yeah, you're correct. But at least PRISM and 25 still had some monumental impact themselves (Roar, Dark Horse, Hello, 25's sales). Rep doesn't have that. The closest is the buzz from LWYMMD, but even then...

(From a purely personal standpoint the biggest fall is positions.)

All of that being said, all of these albums have positives: hit singles, massive tour numbers, insane album sales, or some sort of legacy even if they all are shadowed by their predecessors. So I don't think any of them can really be ridiculed all that much because they all are deemed successes in some shape or form.

But I see someone brought up Changes from Bieber, and I echo the sentiment that it by far had a bigger fall on all accounts than any album listed here. Although it too had some success somewhere. (Yummy was a decent streaming hit and Intentions did well, though I'm not sure how much impact any of it will have in the long run.)

[Positive Tension]

Aug 6, 2021 14:17:16 GMT -5 Glove Slap said:

From these, it's Talk That Talk.

Changes was mentioned, and that outdoes all of these on that front. And from the 00s, I'd say Mariah's followup to TEOM was also a bigger step down than these despite at #1.

Yeah, I'd say E=MC2 is a contender (but I love most of the album). Usher's Here I Stand and Kelly's My December were also pretty big falls commercially, but I thought My December was a strong album.

[Glove Slap]

Aug 14, 2021 9:37:22 GMT -5 Positive Tension said:

Aug 6, 2021 14:17:16 GMT -5 Glove Slap said:

From these, it's Talk That Talk.

Changes was mentioned, and that outdoes all of these on that front. And from the 00s, I'd say Mariah's followup to TEOM was also a bigger step down than these despite at #1.

Yeah, I'd say E=MC2 is a contender (but I love most of the album). Usher's Here I Stand and Kelly's My December were also pretty big falls commercially, but I thought My December was a strong album.

I forgot about HIS LMAO! That one would be bigger than Mariah's decrease.

My impression was this thread focused on eras that produced a #1 hit. I didn't include Kelly's album for that reason, its lead entered in the top 10 on the Hot 100 from sales, but it never really took off. Touch My Body and Love In This Club aren't among the biggest hits from those artists despite their #1 peaks, but they were solid big hits nonetheless.