dremolus - solarpunk
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Sept 7, 2021 9:20:58 GMT -5
Haha, this thread is hitting upon two of Pulse's most overblown subjects. Christina Aguilera and her "legacy." And how "iconic" Teenage Dream is. Both ridiculously overrated IMO. Christina Aguilera, no matter how hard she tries to fight it, will always be tied to the teen pop boom of the late 90's, early 2000's. And that gives her an edge, because nostalgia for that era is so much more massive than Katy's peak era. You can't mention Britney Spears, N Sync, BSB, Justin Timberlake without bringing her into the mix. And I think that's the main reason she's been able to maintain a name for herself, because it certainly isn't her music or success. Teenage Dream was a perfectly engineered and executed pop era. And that's all it was. We hadn't seen an album worked that aggressively since perhaps Janet or Michael in the late 80's/early 90's. So it definitely stands out in context of the digital era. But unlike those albums, the music itself was rather soulless and forgettable and had hardly any impact outside of the charts. You can talk about the collapse of album sales all you want, but when an album has EIGHT hit singles and a re-release and can barely push triple platinum, it speaks volumes. Thankfully for Katy, "Firework" has latched onto July 4th and all things patriotic and will keep people coming back for eons. But that album and it's impact (outside of the charts) is beyond overblown. I give the edge to Katy, simply because she's fresher in people's minds. And Christina has done a terrible job of maintaining whatever her legacy is. I wouldn't really say the album has barely made any impact outside the charts. While we can debate whether or not she had any true persona or whether the music was good, I think that not just in terms of chart success - which is arbitrary to say the least - she was still one of the most talked about celebrities at the start of the decade. As someone who grew up with both acts, she was just in a lot of the pop culture convos in a way Christina never was.
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Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on Sept 7, 2021 9:40:42 GMT -5
Yeah, it's definitely all my opinion. But I don't think using charts to discuss an albums impact says much either. When we look at albums comparable to TD in terms of singles success (Thriller, Faith, Rhythm Nation, Born In The USA, etc), the discussion is never just "ZOMG, they slayed the Hot 100." They're all looked at as iconic bell-weather ALBUMS. Nobody, outside of Katy stans and chart fanatics, is holding Teenage Dream in that esteem. Even when TD was charting and she was getting #1 after #1, it was all about the KPU's and whether or not she could pull it off again. The chart success overshadowed the music and even Katy herself and it still does. Which is why when the hits stopped coming, she didn't just fall off the charts, she completely imploded as an artist. I agree with both of your posts on the whole, and in a way it's what makes this an interesting discussion because the two are similar in that general regard (Christina being part of but also overshadowed by the teen pop thing and imploding when that momentum fell off). I would guess to some degree the responses here are generational, but I'd also point out Katy Perry could do a Super Bowl halftime show on her own, but I doubt Christina has ever been in that conversation. To me the Super Bowl is something that gets into 'iconic.' I can name a lot of albums that sold a lot but aren't necessarily "iconic," which is the word used in the topic post question. And I don't want to undersell Katy. Her Hot 100 chart success during TD era was ICONIC with a capital I. My argument is it doesn't necessarily apply to the album or most of the actual music itself. "Firework" has taken on a life of it's own thanks to special circumstances and will probably end up her signature, but the rest of the singles and album tracks from TD? Time will tell, I just don't see it.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Sept 7, 2021 11:04:45 GMT -5
Teenage Dream was a perfectly engineered and executed pop era. And that's all it was. We hadn't seen an album worked that aggressively since perhaps Janet or Michael in the late 80's/early 90's. So it definitely stands out in context of the digital era. But unlike those albums, the music itself was rather soulless and forgettable and had hardly any impact outside of the charts. You can talk about the collapse of album sales all you want, but when an album has EIGHT hit singles and a re-release and can barely push triple platinum, it speaks volumes. Thankfully for Katy, "Firework" has latched onto July 4th and all things patriotic and will keep people coming back for eons. But that album and it's impact (outside of the charts) is beyond overblown. Whew, not sure the girls are ready for this conversation. The chart success overshadowed the music and even Katy herself and it still does. Which is why when the hits stopped coming, she didn't just fall off the charts, she completely imploded as an artist. This all day, and that writing has been on the wall (and in my posts) since the TD era itself.
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Post by Private Dancer on Sept 7, 2021 11:34:30 GMT -5
Katy Perry.
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Caviar
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Post by Caviar on Sept 7, 2021 11:36:45 GMT -5
I love both of my queens. But I’m going with the one with a Grammy and who is also highly regarded as one of the best voices ever.
As far a the legacy of Stripped and its influence on the younger generation, this article sums it up. A great read.
Billboard: How Christina Aguilera's 'Stripped' Album Is Influencing the Pop Scene 15 Years Later
"So here it is: no hype, no glass, no pretense. Just me. Stripped," Christina Aguilera opens her sophomore album. Fifteen years after its release, pop history has proven that Aguilera wasn't alone in exploring a process of self-identification and declaration that made Stripped a landmark LP still influencing today's mainstream scene.
Released on Oct. 29, 2002, Stripped's actual release marked a somewhat odd time for Aguilera, who was displaying her edgy "Xtina" person via her infamous "Dirrty" video and its accompanying promotions. At time of release, much of the media focused on her outfits and without the ease of YouTube and streaming services, Christina was only able to show a small breadth of the material on Stripped during release week with the second single "Beautiful" going to radio the following month. Yet as the world has now woken up to Aguilera's multifaceted sides thanks to the Stripped singles -- like her vulnerably empowered one (undeniable on "Beautiful"), the rock rebel ("Fighter"), feminist ("Can't Hold Us Down") and introspective hopeful ("The Voice Within") -- it becomes clear how the likes of Rihanna, Demi Lovato, Miley Cyrus, Ariana Grande and more of today's biggest pop stars have followed a similar path, exploring and incorporating these strategies into their careers.
One of the most fascinatingly jarring parts about Stripped wasn't the topless cover, but the wide range of music it covered. While Christina's rivals stuck to a signature sound (Britney Spears' dance-pop helped define an era) or awkwardly tried to hop genres (Jessica Simpson and Mandy Moore's flips from bubblegum to sultry pop felt more like a label push than artistic renaissance), Christina was set on showcasing her span of influences and sounds for Album No. 2 after firmly establishing herself in top 40 world. That range was consistent throughout the 20 tracks as she embraced elements of...and take a breath here...Latin-pop and flamenco ("Infatuation"), neo-soul ("Loving Me 4 Me"), jazz and funk ("Impossible," "Underappreciated"), rock ("Fighter"), gospel ("Soar," "Keep on Singing My Song") and beyond. And she sold each and every performance, bringing in the right guests like Linda Perry, Lil' Kim, Dave Navarro, Alicia Keys, Redman and more to help her vision.
Despite introducing the record with a turned-up club jam, Aguilera flipped everyone on their head by following up with a ballad as classic as they come with "Beautiful." Rihanna instantly comes to mind as another musical shapeshifter, able to seamlessly showcase all her different influences throughout albums. But Ariana Grande's latest LPs My Everything and Dangerous Woman also show a huge range of genres and influences (compare "Side to Side" to "Into You"), as did Miley Cyrus on Bangerz, which jumped from its sassy, Salt-N-Pepa-inspired title track to a gut-wrenching ballad, "Maybe You're Right."
Penultimate track "I'm OK" saw her on the verge of tears singing about the domestic abuse she witnessed as a child, "Walk Away" detailed her inability to leave a toxic relationship, "Infatuation" discussed her first love in former dancer Jorge Santos, as the "Loves Embrace Interlude" gave insight into her fear to let someone love her, almost certainly about then-boyfriend Jordan Bratman. Listeners got insight into Demi Lovato's head via her revealing "Daddy Issues" off her Xtina-approved Tell Me You Love Me album, which explores how the star's estranged father affects her love and sex life. Meanwhile, Cyrus' Bangerz album is essentially the tale of her dissolving engagement with Liam Hemsworth that begins with the tender love song "Adore You" and ends with the aggressively declarative "Someone Else."
All four of the aforementioned pop stars have become increasingly aware of the power their sexuality brings in the public eye. Whether it's Ariana seducing the camera while declaring herself a "Dangerous Woman" in the accompanying video, Demi making sexual experimentation "Cool for the Summer," or Miley literally donning her own pair of leather chaps on tour (to which Xtina applauded, "Cheers from one dirrty girl to the next") it all feels like the next steps in the path Aguilera helped build after the likes of Donna Summer, Madonna and Cher.
But today's stars have a much more sex-positive environment and won't have Saturday Night Live making a judgey (and unfortunately quite unfunny) skit, Entertainment Weekly calling them "desperate and shrill," Time referring to them as "hookers," or continuous hatred from other celebrities (did Kelly Osbourne really have a crush on Xtina?). Songs like "Get Mine, Get Yours" talk of Xtina's affinity for casual sex, while "Can't Hold Us Down" includes lines like, "The guy gets all the glory the more he can score / While the girl can do the same yet you call her a whore." Who else was talking like that and owning it with an equally open and sexually positive image in 2002?
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toomuchboy
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Post by toomuchboy on Sept 7, 2021 11:38:17 GMT -5
Alanis is not a pop star, and as far as Pink, I’m not sure why her material is never cited as influential by other singers. Maybe it’s because her music is too safe? People barely cite “ Mizundastood,” I guess Christina just did it better? P!nk, Kelly Clarkson, Demi Lovato, and a couple of others always put on a little feminist touch, but in a corporate cookie cutter (as you said, "safe") way. They were never as raw and genuine about it as Christina, lest they might offend some people with it. The only time P!nk ever really took it there was with "Stupid Girls" and the outcry over that must’ve tamed her pretty fast.
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degen
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Post by degen on Sept 7, 2021 12:27:06 GMT -5
Haha, this thread is hitting upon two of Pulse's most overblown subjects. Christina Aguilera and her "legacy." And how "iconic" Teenage Dream is. Both ridiculously overrated IMO. Christina Aguilera, no matter how hard she tries to fight it, will always be tied to the teen pop boom of the late 90's, early 2000's. And that gives her an edge, because nostalgia for that era is so much more massive than Katy's peak era. You can't mention Britney Spears, N Sync, BSB, Justin Timberlake without bringing her into the mix. And I think that's the main reason she's been able to maintain a name for herself, because it certainly isn't her music or success. Teenage Dream was a perfectly engineered and executed pop era. And that's all it was. We hadn't seen an album worked that aggressively since perhaps Janet or Michael in the late 80's/early 90's. So it definitely stands out in context of the digital era. But unlike those albums, the music itself was rather soulless and forgettable and had hardly any impact outside of the charts. You can talk about the collapse of album sales all you want, but when an album has EIGHT hit singles and a re-release and can barely push triple platinum, it speaks volumes. Thankfully for Katy, "Firework" has latched onto July 4th and all things patriotic and will keep people coming back for eons. But that album and it's impact (outside of the charts) is beyond overblown. I give the edge to Katy, simply because she's fresher in people's minds. And Christina has done a terrible job of maintaining whatever her legacy is. So how exactly did Christina have the highest grossing female tour of 2007, if she “fell off” after the teen pop era ended? Didn’t the teen pop era end around 2001? I agree with a lot of your points but to disregard many more years of success and label her as a “teen pop act” is you trying to make a narrative work despite many facts that dispute it.
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Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on Sept 7, 2021 12:38:44 GMT -5
So how exactly did Christina have the highest grossing female tour of 2007, if she “fell off” after the teen pop era ended? Didn’t the teen pop era end around 2001? I agree with a lot of your points but to disregard many more years of success and label her as a “teen pop act” is you trying to make a narrative work despite many facts that dispute it. I never said Christina fell off after the teen pop era ended, I said that's why she's mostly remembered. She's so intrinsically tied to a nostalgic era of music and other huge artists. Being labeled and marketed as the anti-Britney may have been lame and sexist back then, but it did wonders for her legacy. She hasn't had an impactful musical moment in over 15 years on her own and her discography is largely forgotten, yet she's managed to maintain a certain level of star status despite that. And I think most of that is tied to the era of music she came up in.
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🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲
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Post by 🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲 on Sept 7, 2021 12:41:26 GMT -5
Haha, this thread is hitting upon two of Pulse's most overblown subjects. Christina Aguilera and her "legacy." And how "iconic" Teenage Dream is. Both ridiculously overrated IMO. Christina Aguilera, no matter how hard she tries to fight it, will always be tied to the teen pop boom of the late 90's, early 2000's. And that gives her an edge, because nostalgia for that era is so much more massive than Katy's peak era. You can't mention Britney Spears, N Sync, BSB, Justin Timberlake without bringing her into the mix. And I think that's the main reason she's been able to maintain a name for herself, because it certainly isn't her music or success. Teenage Dream was a perfectly engineered and executed pop era. And that's all it was. We hadn't seen an album worked that aggressively since perhaps Janet or Michael in the late 80's/early 90's. So it definitely stands out in context of the digital era. But unlike those albums, the music itself was rather soulless and forgettable and had hardly any impact outside of the charts. You can talk about the collapse of album sales all you want, but when an album has EIGHT hit singles and a re-release and can barely push triple platinum, it speaks volumes. Thankfully for Katy, "Firework" has latched onto July 4th and all things patriotic and will keep people coming back for eons. But that album and it's impact (outside of the charts) is beyond overblown.I give the edge to Katy, simply because she's fresher in people's minds. And Christina has done a terrible job of maintaining whatever her legacy is. Never been a huge fan of Katy and felt compelled to seek out her music, but I completely agree on what you said about Katy and TD.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Sept 7, 2021 13:38:28 GMT -5
The certification status of Teenage Dream is interesting because the popularity of that album occurred after album sales dropped but before streaming was a force. Nowadays, a major hit single can contribute to its own certification status and that of its parent album so if Teenage Dream had occurred in the streaming era, how would the streams of its singles have stacked up?
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Sept 7, 2021 14:20:25 GMT -5
The certification status of Teenage Dream is interesting because the popularity of that album occurred after album sales dropped but before streaming was a force. Nowadays, a major hit single can contribute to its own certification status and that of its parent album so if Teenage Dream had occurred in the streaming era, how would the streams of its singles have stacked up? Hard to say. No era would have lasted as long as TD in this day and age. Dua is the closest we've gotten and she technically only scored three US hits.
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degen
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Post by degen on Sept 7, 2021 15:58:03 GMT -5
So how exactly did Christina have the highest grossing female tour of 2007, if she “fell off” after the teen pop era ended? Didn’t the teen pop era end around 2001? I agree with a lot of your points but to disregard many more years of success and label her as a “teen pop act” is you trying to make a narrative work despite many facts that dispute it. I never said Christina fell off after the teen pop era ended, I said that's why she's mostly remembered. She's so intrinsically tied to a nostalgic era of music and other huge artists. Being labeled and marketed as the anti-Britney may have been lame and sexist back then, but it did wonders for her legacy. She hasn't had an impactful musical moment in over 15 years on her own and her discography is largely forgotten, yet she's managed to maintain a certain level of star status despite that. And I think most of that is tied to the era of music she came up in. How is Christina’s discography largely forgotten? Genie, Dirrty and Beautiful remain iconic. I don’t have the exact figures but isn’t her “Stripped” album outstreaming all the albums from that era now (early 2000s female pop). “Lady Marmalade,” despite not a solo, is known because of her. The opening note in “Aint No Other Man” is instantly recognized. If anything she was able to break away from the “teen pop” label and people recognize her as a vocalist, as her runs and riffs are her signature notes and have been emulated and parodied by many. When her commercial success stoped she did a far better job remaining relevant than Katy did. And I love how she has those big guest features to wrap up her career nicely in a bow. “Say Something” became a hit because of her, and that’s a fact. It’s like she technically won, and that bothers so many other fanbases because those huge singles counted towards her success means she beat their faves. So the best option is to disregard it entirely. I really don’t see any legacy with Katy Perry other than the perfect TD era and her Disney like themed videos. To me she’s like a Paula Abdul but with better videos. Even her “Super Bowl” moment is largely forgotten and that was just 6 years ago. Let’s not forget there have been lots of artists in her caliber that performed at the Super Bowl. Maroon 5, The Weeknd and Justin Timberlake were pretty much uneventful as well.
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Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on Sept 7, 2021 18:50:26 GMT -5
Whether or not Christina's discography is forgotten is admittedly anecdotal. But that goes for quite a bit of this discussion. I just never hear anyone talk about or refer to her music on it's own. I guess Demi Lovato and Selena Gomez mentioned Stripped, but does that move the needle for me? I do think Christina's discography had more potential, she's just done a terrible job maintaining it. Way too much downtime between eras and out of the spotlight, way too many flop eras that flew under the radar musically and an unwillingness to engage in the material that people actually want from her (she waited way too long for that Vegas residency for instance). And so much of her vocal status is tied to the teen pop era she came out of. She was the anti-Britney, the one that could actually sing. And it earned her a level of vocal recognition and praise, that quite frankly, she didn't even truly earn. As for her beating anyone's favs, I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion or who she even beat, but okay?
And I don't think comparisons between Katy and Paula are off the mark (but OMG, Katy did not have better videos than Paula Abdul, CHS alone mops the floor with Katy's entire videography). The only reason I voted for Katy in this thread is her successful eras are fresher in the public's minds. Even her flops are fresher in public's minds. Ask me this question ten years from now, the answer might be different. Music and artists experience cultural and critical re-evaluations/resurgences all the time. That could happen for either of them.
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Sept 7, 2021 19:02:05 GMT -5
Spoiler: Ten years from now Katy is at the very least the "Firework" lady. Xtina is someone no one under 40 knows anymore.
Xtina is the Cindy Lauper to Britney's Madonna. One could say Katy is also second fiddle to Gaga, but I'd still rank her above Xtina.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Sept 7, 2021 19:07:22 GMT -5
I never said Christina fell off after the teen pop era ended, I said that's why she's mostly remembered. She's so intrinsically tied to a nostalgic era of music and other huge artists. Being labeled and marketed as the anti-Britney may have been lame and sexist back then, but it did wonders for her legacy. She hasn't had an impactful musical moment in over 15 years on her own and her discography is largely forgotten, yet she's managed to maintain a certain level of star status despite that. And I think most of that is tied to the era of music she came up in. How is Christina’s discography largely forgotten? Genie, Dirrty and Beautiful remain iconic. I don’t have the exact figures but isn’t her “Stripped” album outstreaming all the albums from that era now (early 2000s female pop). “Lady Marmalade,” despite not a solo, is known because of her. The opening note in “Aint No Other Man” is instantly recognized. If anything she was able to break away from the “teen pop” label and people recognize her as a vocalist, as her runs and riffs are her signature notes and have been emulated and parodied by many. When her commercial success stoped she did a far better job remaining relevant than Katy did. And I love how she has those big guest features to wrap up her career nicely in a bow. “Say Something” became a hit because of her, and that’s a fact. It’s like she technically won, and that bothers so many other fanbases because those huge singles counted towards her success means she beat their faves. So the best option is to disregard it entirely. I really don’t see any legacy with Katy Perry other than the perfect TD era and her Disney like themed videos. To me she’s like a Paula Abdul but with better videos. Even her “Super Bowl” moment is largely forgotten and that was just 6 years ago. Let’s not forget there have been lots of artists in her caliber that performed at the Super Bowl. Maroon 5, The Weeknd and Justin Timberlake were pretty much uneventful as well. Since you are trying to make a point about Christina within early 2000s female pop... If we look at Spotify streams for the 1999-2003 time period, Britney wins out. Here are their songs from that period with over 100 million Spotify streams: "Toxic" - 624 million streams "Oops! I Did it Again" - 427 million streams "Baby One More Time" - 426 million streams "Genie In A Bottle" - 223 million streams "Beautiful" - 220 million streams "Dirrty" - 149 million streams "Fighter" - 139 millions streams"I'm A Slave 4 U" - 118 million streams "Sometimes" - 103 million streams If you look at YouTube views for the same time period, Britney wins out again. Here are their videos from that period with over 100 million YouTube views: "Baby One More Time" - 646 million views "Toxic" - 529 million views "Oops! I Did It Again" - 334 million views "Hurt" - 225 million"Sometimes" - 218 million views "Genie In A Bottle" - 181 million views "You Drive Me Crazy" - 151 million views "I'm A Slave 4 U" - 150 million views "Dirrty" - 145 million views"Lucky" - 142 million views "Everytime" - 140 million views "I'm Not A Girl..." - 134 million views "Beautiful" - 131 million"Stronger" - 127 million views "Overprotected" - 120 million views "Can't Hold Us Down" - 116 million views "Fighter" - 100 million views
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Sept 7, 2021 19:25:07 GMT -5
Alanis was a 'pop star' in Canada before Jagged Little Pill, and then she literally took control and changed the direction of her music (and career). My point was a more general one that it's basically a rite of passage for women to be 'pop stars' at first, singing music that others wrote/produced, and then for them to take more control of their careers. Christina didn't do anything that hadn't been done before. It's also really ironic you say P!nk didn't have an influence considering Christina worked with the exact same producers on Stripped that P!nk had used on Mizundastood. Without that P!nk album you don't get Christina on "Beautiful" and maybe don't get "Fighter" or "Can't Hold Us Down." Again, I never said what Christina did hadn’t been done before. I said she did it better, which is why “Stripped” is more remembered than any Pink album. And let’s not act like Pink hasn’t used producers that Christina and Britney were already using. For the record, Pink's album has songs with Spotify streams on par with those of Stripped: "Get the Party Started" - 133 million streams "Just Like A Pill" - 127 million streams Both "Don't Let Me Get Me" and "Just Like a Pill" have over 100 million YT views. My point was separate from that, but I think you underestimate P!nk here.
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degen
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Post by degen on Sept 7, 2021 23:14:47 GMT -5
How is Christina’s discography largely forgotten? Genie, Dirrty and Beautiful remain iconic. I don’t have the exact figures but isn’t her “Stripped” album outstreaming all the albums from that era now (early 2000s female pop). “Lady Marmalade,” despite not a solo, is known because of her. The opening note in “Aint No Other Man” is instantly recognized. If anything she was able to break away from the “teen pop” label and people recognize her as a vocalist, as her runs and riffs are her signature notes and have been emulated and parodied by many. When her commercial success stoped she did a far better job remaining relevant than Katy did. And I love how she has those big guest features to wrap up her career nicely in a bow. “Say Something” became a hit because of her, and that’s a fact. It’s like she technically won, and that bothers so many other fanbases because those huge singles counted towards her success means she beat their faves. So the best option is to disregard it entirely. I really don’t see any legacy with Katy Perry other than the perfect TD era and her Disney like themed videos. To me she’s like a Paula Abdul but with better videos. Even her “Super Bowl” moment is largely forgotten and that was just 6 years ago. Let’s not forget there have been lots of artists in her caliber that performed at the Super Bowl. Maroon 5, The Weeknd and Justin Timberlake were pretty much uneventful as well. Since you are trying to make a point about Christina within early 2000s female pop... If we look at Spotify streams for the 1999-2003 time period, Britney wins out. Here are their songs from that period with over 100 million Spotify streams: "Toxic" - 624 million streams "Oops! I Did it Again" - 427 million streams "Baby One More Time" - 426 million streams "Genie In A Bottle" - 223 million streams "Beautiful" - 220 million streams "Dirrty" - 149 million streams "Fighter" - 139 millions streams"I'm A Slave 4 U" - 118 million streams "Sometimes" - 103 million streams If you look at YouTube views for the same time period, Britney wins out again. Here are their videos from that period with over 100 million YouTube views: "Baby One More Time" - 646 million views "Toxic" - 529 million views "Oops! I Did It Again" - 334 million views "Hurt" - 225 million"Sometimes" - 218 million views "Genie In A Bottle" - 181 million views "You Drive Me Crazy" - 151 million views "I'm A Slave 4 U" - 150 million views "Dirrty" - 145 million views"Lucky" - 142 million views "Everytime" - 140 million views "I'm Not A Girl..." - 134 million views "Beautiful" - 131 million"Stronger" - 127 million views "Overprotected" - 120 million views "Can't Hold Us Down" - 116 million views "Fighter" - 100 million viewsPoint wasn’t just to compare them to Britney’s, who is totally expected to have more streams since she released twice as much albums as Christina did. There were other pop stars from that era, like Jennifer Lopez, Pink, Avril, etc.’ And by the way I noticed you didnt include “Candyman” and “Lady Marmalade” which are Christina’s biggest YouTube hits. Candyman has 235 million views plus an alternate version with 82 million views putting it right up there with Britney’s big ones. And as for LM, Do we ignore “WAP” from Cardi’s totals because she shared it with another female? Please edit your list so people aren’t blindly liking an inaccurate post, as they blindly like everything else related to degrading Christina’s success.
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Alvin&Ivan
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Post by Alvin&Ivan on Sept 8, 2021 4:07:13 GMT -5
Katy Perry wins over Christina Aguilera for me.
For your kind info, (Britney vs Christina) my vote is for Britney Spears.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Sept 8, 2021 6:50:22 GMT -5
Since you are trying to make a point about Christina within early 2000s female pop... If we look at Spotify streams for the 1999-2003 time period, Britney wins out. Here are their songs from that period with over 100 million Spotify streams: "Toxic" - 624 million streams "Oops! I Did it Again" - 427 million streams "Baby One More Time" - 426 million streams "Genie In A Bottle" - 223 million streams "Beautiful" - 220 million streams "Dirrty" - 149 million streams "Fighter" - 139 millions streams"I'm A Slave 4 U" - 118 million streams "Sometimes" - 103 million streams If you look at YouTube views for the same time period, Britney wins out again. Here are their videos from that period with over 100 million YouTube views: "Baby One More Time" - 646 million views "Toxic" - 529 million views "Oops! I Did It Again" - 334 million views "Hurt" - 225 million"Sometimes" - 218 million views "Genie In A Bottle" - 181 million views "You Drive Me Crazy" - 151 million views "I'm A Slave 4 U" - 150 million views "Dirrty" - 145 million views"Lucky" - 142 million views "Everytime" - 140 million views "I'm Not A Girl..." - 134 million views "Beautiful" - 131 million"Stronger" - 127 million views "Overprotected" - 120 million views "Can't Hold Us Down" - 116 million views "Fighter" - 100 million viewsPoint wasn’t just to compare them to Britney’s, who is totally expected to have more streams since she released twice as much albums as Christina did. There were other pop stars from that era, like Jennifer Lopez, Pink, Avril, etc.’ And by the way I noticed you didnt include “Candyman” and “Lady Marmalade” which are Christina’s biggest YouTube hits. Candyman has 235 million views plus an alternate version with 82 million views putting it right up there with Britney’s big ones. And as for LM, Do we ignore “WAP” from Cardi’s totals because she shared it with another female? Please edit your list so people aren’t blindly liking an inaccurate post, as they blindly like everything else related to degrading Christina’s success. “Candyman” isn’t “early 2000s female pop,” which is the parameter YOU set. All of the stats I posted are related to that parameter YOU set. You are the one being blind. You set this poll/thread up with a specific intent, but it hasn’t gone as intended and now you’re acting out. Considering Pink is the artist in “Lady Marmalade” who has maintained the most commercial relevance, I’d argue she’s the one responsible for its continued success.
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dremolus - solarpunk
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Sept 8, 2021 6:52:05 GMT -5
Since you are trying to make a point about Christina within early 2000s female pop... If we look at Spotify streams for the 1999-2003 time period, Britney wins out. Here are their songs from that period with over 100 million Spotify streams: "Toxic" - 624 million streams "Oops! I Did it Again" - 427 million streams "Baby One More Time" - 426 million streams "Genie In A Bottle" - 223 million streams "Beautiful" - 220 million streams "Dirrty" - 149 million streams "Fighter" - 139 millions streams"I'm A Slave 4 U" - 118 million streams "Sometimes" - 103 million streams If you look at YouTube views for the same time period, Britney wins out again. Here are their videos from that period with over 100 million YouTube views: "Baby One More Time" - 646 million views "Toxic" - 529 million views "Oops! I Did It Again" - 334 million views "Hurt" - 225 million"Sometimes" - 218 million views "Genie In A Bottle" - 181 million views "You Drive Me Crazy" - 151 million views "I'm A Slave 4 U" - 150 million views "Dirrty" - 145 million views"Lucky" - 142 million views "Everytime" - 140 million views "I'm Not A Girl..." - 134 million views "Beautiful" - 131 million"Stronger" - 127 million views "Overprotected" - 120 million views "Can't Hold Us Down" - 116 million views "Fighter" - 100 million viewsPoint wasn’t just to compare them to Britney’s, who is totally expected to have more streams since she released twice as much albums as Christina did. There were other pop stars from that era, like Jennifer Lopez, Pink, Avril, etc.’ And by the way I noticed you didnt include “Candyman” and “Lady Marmalade” which are Christina’s biggest YouTube hits. Candyman has 235 million views plus an alternate version with 82 million views putting it right up there with Britney’s big ones. And as for LM, Do we ignore “WAP” from Cardi’s totals because she shared it with another female? Please edit your list so people aren’t blindly liking an inaccurate post, as they blindly like everything else related to degrading Christina’s success. Listen if you're still gonna try and fight people who say Katy is more iconic, why did you create this thread in the first place? Just stop, okay
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Sept 8, 2021 9:39:36 GMT -5
Katheryn, with ease. Christina -More albums sold -More accolades -More worldwide success including Latin crossover -More successful collaborations -More success in Tv & movie ventures Katy -More Hot 100 #1s in the U.S Did I miss something? since you seem to be struggling with people disagreeing with you (and your alternate facts): SALES:in 2014, Katy Perry was honored by the RIAA as the "Top Certified Digital Artist Ever"—yes, most records sold among all artists to date. in 2017, Katy Perry became the first artist EVER to have three songs certified Diamond (10x Platinum) in the US. 3 of 14 songs in history that were Diamond at the time. Billboard ranked Katy Perry as the 61st Greatest Artist of All-Time in 2019. Christina Aguilera did not make the cut for the Top 125. TV:in 2015, Katy Perry's Super Bowl Halftime Show became the most-watched in history, getting 4 million more than the game itself even. Record yet to be topped. in 2015, Katy Perry received an EMMY nomination for her halftime show—an accolade that's hard to get, not everybody has that. WORLDWIDE SUCCESS:
Katy Perry's Prismatic World Tour is the #12 highest earning tour by a woman in history. Aguilera is not in the Top 20. Katy Perry's 2019 hit "Con Calma" with Daddy Yankee is certified 41x Platinum (Latin). USA - Perry has 4 more #1 hits than Aguilera. UK - Perry has 1 more #1 hit than Aguilera. AUS - Perry has 1 more #1 hit than Aguilera. CAN - Perry has 6 more #1 hits than Aguilera. GER - Perry has 1 more #1 hit than Aguilera. NZ - Perry has 4 more #1 hits than Aguilera. VIDEOGRAPHY:
Katy Perry would be more iconic just based on her video catalog, anyway. she has the Top 2 most-watched videos among women on YouTube, and that's for a reason. even her "flops" like "This Is How We Do" and "Bon Appetit" have great videos, and have garnered over 764 million and 1.15 billion views respectively. This basically sums up my entire thoughts on this thread. Even outside of the iconic Teenage Dream era, she has her nostalgic pop rock hits of OOTB and her two massive singles from Prism. Her SB halftime show is still talked about and her videography is one of the best of 2010s (right up there with Gaga). She’s got the stats to back it all up. And she’s keeping her name out there with her Idol judging gig. Xtina is iconic in her own right and was a force of the early 2000s with many bops, plus her amazingly strong, unique voice is iconic. And even after her solo career started to slow down, she was able to keep churning out successful collabs in the 2010s. When people think of the late 90s/early 00s teen pop trend, Xtina and Britney will always be the first two that come to mind.
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Sept 8, 2021 12:34:41 GMT -5
Katy, easily.
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Post by when the pawn... on Sept 8, 2021 20:40:44 GMT -5
Someone mentioned this may be a generational divide in the poll but I'm going with Christina.
Katy has unquestionably had more success. More No. 1s, bigger tours, bigger looks, etc. But I do think Katy's legacy is simply being a hitmaker. It's not a bad one and she was incredible at it for about six years. And it isn't just that she has all the No. 1s, I do think the TD era is actually remembered, beyond Pulse, for being a hit-making machine/being "record-breaking" even if people can't remember which major chart record she tied.
But I think Christina actually carved out an artistic legacy as the primary *vocalist* of her time and was influential in a way that I don't think Katy is or will be. She was in Britney's shadow to begin with (and maybe still in some way) but snuck out, starting with the BNA grammy win, followed by being the lead on "Lady Marmalade" and the updated image on Stripped and B2B while retaining her vocals, etc. Idk that any of these things are *iconique* to joe schmo on the street but I think she has more going for her.
As for the Super Bowl comparison - if the NFL was courting current pop stars in the '00s the way they did in the '10s, Christina would have easily been near the top of the list for the 2004-08 games. If Bruno could do it in 2014, Christina could've on her first three albums.
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degen
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Post by degen on Sept 9, 2021 14:41:13 GMT -5
Point wasn’t just to compare them to Britney’s, who is totally expected to have more streams since she released twice as much albums as Christina did. There were other pop stars from that era, like Jennifer Lopez, Pink, Avril, etc.’ And by the way I noticed you didnt include “Candyman” and “Lady Marmalade” which are Christina’s biggest YouTube hits. Candyman has 235 million views plus an alternate version with 82 million views putting it right up there with Britney’s big ones. And as for LM, Do we ignore “WAP” from Cardi’s totals because she shared it with another female? Please edit your list so people aren’t blindly liking an inaccurate post, as they blindly like everything else related to degrading Christina’s success. “Candyman” isn’t “early 2000s female pop,” which is the parameter YOU set. All of the stats I posted are related to that parameter YOU set. You are the one being blind. You set this poll/thread up with a specific intent, but it hasn’t gone as intended and now you’re acting out. Considering Pink is the artist in “Lady Marmalade” who has maintained the most commercial relevance, I’d argue she’s the one responsible for its continued success. So you included “Hurt” but not Candyman? So ur intention was to intentionally paint the stats with what ever narrative you wanted to set. Thanks for proving my point.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Sept 9, 2021 14:54:44 GMT -5
“Candyman” isn’t “early 2000s female pop,” which is the parameter YOU set. All of the stats I posted are related to that parameter YOU set. You are the one being blind. You set this poll/thread up with a specific intent, but it hasn’t gone as intended and now you’re acting out. Considering Pink is the artist in “Lady Marmalade” who has maintained the most commercial relevance, I’d argue she’s the one responsible for its continued success. So you included “Hurt” but not Candyman? So ur intention was to intentionally paint the stats with what ever narrative you wanted to set. Thanks for proving my point. My bad, I shouldn't have included "Hurt" since it doesn't fall under your category of "early 2000s female pop." I didn't prove your point since taking "Hurt" out actually makes Christina look worse. My inclusion helped her. Updated list of YouTube views for Britney and Christina solo singles from 1999-2004 that have over 100 million views: "Baby One More Time" - 646 million views "Toxic" - 529 million views "Oops! I Did It Again" - 334 million views "Sometimes" - 218 million views "Genie In A Bottle" - 181 million views"You Drive Me Crazy" - 151 million views "I'm A Slave 4 U" - 150 million views "Dirrty" - 145 million views"Lucky" - 142 million views "Everytime" - 140 million views "I'm Not A Girl..." - 134 million views "Beautiful" - 131 million"Stronger" - 127 million views "Overprotected" - 120 million views "Can't Hold Us Down" - 116 million views "Fighter" - 100 million views
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chanman
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Post by chanman on Sept 10, 2021 7:40:36 GMT -5
This thread....Seriously...it has to be KP. It would be better to compare artists from the same chart years.
Micheal Jackson vs Prince Madonna vs Whitney Backstrret Boys vs N Sync vs Spice Girls Notorious Big vs 2 Pac 50 Cent vs Sean Paul Britney vs Christina Lady Gaga vs Katy Perry
etc etc etc
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2021 8:22:32 GMT -5
Katy Puurry and her thick voice but only because she did more with what she was given. Now if she had even 5% the personality maybe people would be invested in her to care beyond the hits she would still be slaying. No SHADE but pop fans aren't like country fans they want the big voice, the gowns the drama and the laughs and Katy Perry unlike Carrie Underwood-Fisher isn't being propped up by boring country fans I think its obvious Christianity is the better overall vocal talent in that she can charge herself up like hurricane to get those big loud notes out but singing should be effortless see the greats. http://instagram.com/p/CTkYAZHj_qE
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🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲
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Post by 🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲 on Sept 10, 2021 8:55:53 GMT -5
This thread....Seriously...it has to be KP. It would be better to compare artists from the same chart years. Micheal Jackson vs Prince Madonna vs Whitney Backstrret Boys vs N Sync vs Spice Girls Notorious Big vs 2 Pac 50 Cent vs Sean Paul Britney vs Christina Lady Gaga vs Katy Perry etc etc etc Totally agreed! Gaga would have been a MUCH better comparison to Katy than Xtina. Glad somebody had finally pointed that out! *Edit* i'm just now hearing Katy's Unconditionally at a Walgreens as I'm typing this lol
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degen
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Post by degen on Sept 10, 2021 14:07:18 GMT -5
Katy Puurry and her thick voice but only because she did more with what she was given. Now if she had even 5% the personality maybe people would be invested in her to care beyond the hits she would still be slaying. No SHADE but pop fans aren't like country fans they want the big voice, the gowns the drama and the laughs and Katy Perry unlike Carrie Underwood-Fisher isn't being propped up by boring country fans I think its obvious Christianity is the better overall vocal talent in that she can charge herself up like hurricane to get those big loud notes out but singing should be effortless see the greats. http://instagr.am/p/CTkYAZHj_qE Christina would absolutely wipe out Mariah in a vocal match up today. Mariah’s voice is no longer what it used to be and that’s on facts. youtu.be/YABbKNbT-yw
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degen
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Post by degen on Sept 10, 2021 14:15:44 GMT -5
So you included “Hurt” but not Candyman? So ur intention was to intentionally paint the stats with what ever narrative you wanted to set. Thanks for proving my point. My bad, I shouldn't have included "Hurt" since it doesn't fall under your category of "early 2000s female pop." I didn't prove your point since taking "Hurt" out actually makes Christina look worse. My inclusion helped her. Updated list of YouTube views for Britney and Christina solo singles from 1999-2004 that have over 100 million views: "Baby One More Time" - 646 million views "Toxic" - 529 million views "Oops! I Did It Again" - 334 million views "Sometimes" - 218 million views "Genie In A Bottle" - 181 million views"You Drive Me Crazy" - 151 million views "I'm A Slave 4 U" - 150 million views "Dirrty" - 145 million views"Lucky" - 142 million views "Everytime" - 140 million views "I'm Not A Girl..." - 134 million views "Beautiful" - 131 million"Stronger" - 127 million views "Overprotected" - 120 million views "Can't Hold Us Down" - 116 million views "Fighter" - 100 million viewsSo to sum it up, Britney released 4 albums between 1999-2003, and has 11 singles with over 100 million. Christina released 2 albums during this time period, and has 5 singles over 100 million (plus Lady Marmamade). So what point are you proving exactly? That Britney has twice as much singles after releasing twice as much albums?
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