degen
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Post by degen on Nov 2, 2021 13:39:38 GMT -5
The general public usually reverts to Britney’s catalog from her debut to “Blackout,” but for some reason her later hits have already aged pretty poorly. “Circus” is mostly still remembered for being a comeback album, but everything after that hasn’t aged well. During the “Femme Fatale” era she was a radio darling, but 10 years later those songs are gone from public conscious. Is it because those songs simply didn’t age well? Was it because it wasn’t tied to any iconic imagery? Or maybe it was Britney herself, in prime robotic/conservatorship form, being forgettable, despite the product.
I think it was a mix of all that stuff. Looking back at those songs, Britney’s hits seemed to be catered to an established 2010s sound. Her music kind of just fit in, and didn’t break the mold. A lot of it felt like she was trying to play catch up to Kesha and Katy Perry. She was on the radio, but there was nothing behind the songs. Even her collaboration with Will.i.am on “Scream and Shout” has an outdated touch when listening to it now.
Obviously “Glory” and “Britney Jean” are forgotten for obvious reasons, because there was not much commercial success at this point. So I guess we are directly pointing to the “Femme Fatale” era and maybe a couple hits before/after that.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Nov 2, 2021 14:17:52 GMT -5
the GP always reverts back to the early stuff of any Pop girl who is past their prime. Early Madonna, early Britney, early Gaga, early Mariah, early Kelly, early anyone really.
I mean, if you're at a gay bar and there is a timeslot for a Britney video, do you think the DJ is going to pick Toxic or Till the World Ends? She's not a current artist so they will pick a fan favorite. There are too many other current girls to take up all the other slots.
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Lost In Musical Reverie
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Post by Lost In Musical Reverie on Nov 2, 2021 14:39:08 GMT -5
the GP always reverts back to the early stuff of any Pop girl who is past their prime. Early Madonna, early Britney, early Gaga, early Mariah, early Kelly, early anyone really. I mean, if you're at a gay bar and there is a timeslot for a Britney video, do you think the DJ is going to pick Toxic or Till the World Ends? She's not a current artist so they will pick a fan favorite. There are too many other current girls to take up all the other slots. It's interesting that Janet seems to be an exception with her 90s material being more remembered by the GP over her 80s work. Basing this on her streaming stats only, of course, which don't provide the full picture. "Together Again", "Got Til It's Gone", "Anytime, Anyplace", and "That's The Way Love Goes" seem to have a stronger hold on public consciousness compared to her "Control" and "Rhythm Nation" singles. This could change with further acknowledgment and/or a renaissance of her legacy, though. As for current pop girls, I wonder if Ariana will be more remembered for her "My Everything" singles or her "sweetener"/"thank u, next" ones. It's too early to tell, obviously, but still some interesting food for thought.
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bat1990
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Post by bat1990 on Nov 2, 2021 14:54:03 GMT -5
the GP always reverts back to the early stuff of any Pop girl who is past their prime. Early Madonna, early Britney, early Gaga, early Mariah, early Kelly, early anyone really. I mean, if you're at a gay bar and there is a timeslot for a Britney video, do you think the DJ is going to pick Toxic or Till the World Ends? She's not a current artist so they will pick a fan favorite. There are too many other current girls to take up all the other slots. It's interesting that Janet seems to be an exception with her 90s material being more remembered by the GP over her 80s work. Basing this on her streaming stats only, of course, which don't provide the full picture. "Together Again", "Got Til It's Gone", "Anytime, Anyplace", and "That's The Way Love Goes" seem to have a stronger hold on public consciousness compared to her "Control" and "Rhythm Nation" singles. This could change with further acknowledgment and/or a renaissance of her legacy, though. As for current pop girls, I wonder if Ariana will be more remembered for her "My Everything" singles or her "sweetener"/"thank u, next" ones. It's too early to tell, obviously, but still some interesting food for thought. The lack of Rhythm Nation focus is baffling to me. I've also noticed the streaming performance of her 90s hits and then publicity seems to also focus a lot on the Control album, but despite the record-breaking, culture-shaking that Rhythm Nation achieved at the time, it's legacy feels so neglected.
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mrmike855
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Post by mrmike855 on Nov 2, 2021 15:31:26 GMT -5
The general public usually reverts to Britney’s catalog from her debut to “Blackout,” but for some reason her later hits have already aged pretty poorly. “Circus” is mostly still remembered for being a comeback album, but everything after that hasn’t aged well. During the “Femme Fatale” era she was a radio darling, but 10 years later those songs are gone from public conscious. Is it because those songs simply didn’t age well? Was it because it wasn’t tied to any iconic imagery? Or maybe it was Britney herself, in prime robotic/conservatorship form, being forgettable, despite the product. I think that's the key, Britney Spears' music after Blackout was mostly driven by radio and hardcore fan interest. The hardcore fans really wanted to listen to new Britney Spears music, and would buy almost anything she made, and the radio took that strong fan interest as a sign of how popular she was and heavily spun her songs. However, those songs would always have lousy longevity, suggesting there wasn't much interest after the stans bought it, and with little interest outside of fanbase, the general public forgot about almost every song she made after "Womanizer" and maybe "Circus" once the radio stopped playing them (watch out BTS stans, because this is exactly how your songs are going to be remembered). This might have been because her "Femme Fatale" songs sound very much like early 2010s electropop with little to distinguish them from Rihanna or Kesha songs (though "Hold it Against Me" was perhaps the first mainstream hit to use dubstep, but dubstep faded away so quickly that it sounds even more dated). But, even if Britney wasn't under the conservatorship, I don't know what she would've done differently, she didn't write any of those songs and live performances rarely propel a song to massive success anymore. But at the end of the day, I think these songs faded because stans and the radio made them look much bigger than they really were among pop listeners.
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degen
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Post by degen on Nov 2, 2021 16:11:26 GMT -5
It's interesting that Janet seems to be an exception with her 90s material being more remembered by the GP over her 80s work. Basing this on her streaming stats only, of course, which don't provide the full picture. "Together Again", "Got Til It's Gone", "Anytime, Anyplace", and "That's The Way Love Goes" seem to have a stronger hold on public consciousness compared to her "Control" and "Rhythm Nation" singles. This could change with further acknowledgment and/or a renaissance of her legacy, though. As for current pop girls, I wonder if Ariana will be more remembered for her "My Everything" singles or her "sweetener"/"thank u, next" ones. It's too early to tell, obviously, but still some interesting food for thought. The lack of Rhythm Nation focus is baffling to me. I've also noticed the streaming performance of her 90s hits and then publicity seems to also focus a lot on the Control album, but despite the record-breaking, culture-shaking that Rhythm Nation achieved at the time, it's legacy feels so neglected. I think the answer is clear about Janet. Her 80s hits were more pop driven, whereas her 90s hits were more R&B driven. Her base now is strictly an R&B audience, with her music fading from pop listeners’ radar. That’s why her 90s hits get streamed more. “Control” obviously aged better than “Rhythm Nation” which has a late 80s/early 90s sound that very much feels outdated now. The “Control” singles get more play listings and radio airplay now as they were more R&B leaning than the ones on “Rhythm Nation” when there was a clear intention to make her a major pop star on multiple formats.
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degen
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Post by degen on Nov 2, 2021 16:22:01 GMT -5
the GP always reverts back to the early stuff of any Pop girl who is past their prime. Early Madonna, early Britney, early Gaga, early Mariah, early Kelly, early anyone really. I mean, if you're at a gay bar and there is a timeslot for a Britney video, do you think the DJ is going to pick Toxic or Till the World Ends? She's not a current artist so they will pick a fan favorite. There are too many other current girls to take up all the other slots. I agree with Gaga, but not the rest. Early Madonna I’m assuming is her 80’s stretch and we will throw “Vogue” in there to close this chapter. Yes, that remains her most memorable stretch in public conscious. But she was able to redeem herself with “Ray of Light” and “Confessions,” both of which aged well. As for Mariah, I’d argue her early stuff isn’t as popular. If we are talking about her first 3 albums being the early ones. The only 3 songs from this era that still have public awareness are “Vision of Love,” “Emotions” and “Hero.” In this case I’d argue mid-career Mariah is the most popular in public conscious. 1994-1999 output and the growing popularity of AIWFC is definitely her most memorable stretch . And of course “We Belong Together” sits at the top of her hit list and that’s nowhere near early Mariah.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Nov 2, 2021 16:52:22 GMT -5
but when is the last time you heard We Belong Together in the real world? I hear Dreamlover, Emotions, and Someday almost weekly, if not multiple times a week at work.
as for Madonna, yea I do hear Ray of Light from time to time, but her 80's hits will always take the cake.
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degen
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Post by degen on Nov 2, 2021 17:13:22 GMT -5
but when is the last time you heard We Belong Together in the real world? I hear Dreamlover, Emotions, and Someday almost weekly, if not multiple times a week at work. as for Madonna, yea I do hear Ray of Light from time to time, but her 80's hits will always take the cake. I hear “We Belong Together” a lot still. Maybe it’s just because of where I’m located? But that song still gets heavy airplay on AC and Urban AC. If anything it’s one of the most played 2000s song of this sub-genre.
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Nov 2, 2021 19:09:15 GMT -5
Because the Femme Fatale album aged terribly outside of like 2 or 3 songs. It's incredibly dated and sounds generic and tired these days. And every thing she released after that either flopped or was panned from the start. Let's also not forget the FF era, while able to hold its own and score some hits, never left the impact that her earlier music did.
I wouldn't say it's "forgotten," though. Just not really in demand.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Nov 2, 2021 19:23:00 GMT -5
As for current pop girls, I wonder if Ariana will be more remembered for her "My Everything" singles or her "sweetener"/"thank u, next" ones. It's too early to tell, obviously, but still some interesting food for thought. TUN/Sweetener for sure. I'd also say "Side To Side" and "Into You," and maybe even "Positions" before anything from My Everything. As for the original question:
I used to be a HUGE fan of her Femme Fatale album and it's one of the first CDs I ever bought. These days I might occasionally jam out to the singles, but the material doesn't really hold up. Most of the record sounds extremely dated. It's super evident on "Hold It Against Me" for me—that breakdown is just grating. I also think Britney's legal troubles/conservatorship has changed my level of enjoyment of her post-2008 music. Knowing what we know now, and heard directly from her, I find myself going back to her early 2000's music much more frequently and joyfully.
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Joe1240
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Post by Joe1240 on Nov 2, 2021 22:20:28 GMT -5
the GP always reverts back to the early stuff of any Pop girl who is past their prime. Early Madonna, early Britney, early Gaga, early Mariah, early Kelly, early anyone really. This is very true.it also happening to other artists like Katy Perry and Taylor Swift. As a Swift fan when I go out in the real world,I very rarely hear any of her songs post-1989 era in shops or on radio.Even Christina Aguilera from Britney's same era,All her singles from first 3 albums are most remembered, her current material never gets any airplay or hear anywhere. Back to the topic at hand of Britney, Britney was on top of the world from 1998-2004 and lots of people have good memories with those albums,Her later albums in her career was not done by her but her conservatorship she had at the time. "Blackout" is her most remembered album from that era although. Britney's comeback driven interest at the time and she those singles go #1 on the charts.I admit her #1 hit "3" didn't age well at all and it is one of Britney's weakest songs ever.What happening to Britney is what happens to every older artist. The newer generation of pop girls get more interest so people go with what they remember most.
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Nov 5, 2021 11:31:38 GMT -5
the GP always reverts back to the early stuff of any Pop girl who is past their prime. Early Madonna, early Britney, early Gaga, early Mariah, early Kelly, early anyone really. I mean, if you're at a gay bar and there is a timeslot for a Britney video, do you think the DJ is going to pick Toxic or Till the World Ends? She's not a current artist so they will pick a fan favorite. There are too many other current girls to take up all the other slots. As for current pop girls, I wonder if Ariana will be more remembered for her "My Everything" singles or her "sweetener"/"thank u, next" ones. It's too early to tell, obviously, but still some interesting food for thought. I think Ariana will be more remembered for her sweetener/thank u, next singles than songs from her first two albums. I feel like the GP reverts backs to artists’ music when they were at their pop culture peak. Those are the songs the GP heard everywhere at the time and most likely attached certain memories to them. It just so happens, most artists mentioned in this thread were at their peaks during the first half of their careers (Britney, Gaga, Madonna, Katy, Mariah, Kelly). While some artists were able to still able to score commercial success 10+ years into their careers (We Belong Together, Rain On Me, Music), the GP will always return to when the artist was at their pop culture peak and their songs were being played everywhere. It’s a nostalgic thing for many. As for Ariana, she didn’t reach her pop culture peak until sweetener/thank u, next eras.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Nov 5, 2021 11:39:11 GMT -5
Yeah, that’s what I’d say. The songs/albums/images that had the most impact at the artist’s peak. I know Madonna was mentioned in here a few times. I feel like her peak was the 80s into the 90s but there are also songs from earlier than that that made her impact known well too so I feel like the songs of hers that will never die will be those ones from the 80s to 1990ish. Obviously she had major hits afterward but the focal point will always start at those earlier ones.
I’d say Ariana’s will be around the thank u next period.
I do wonder about Rihanna. I do kind of feel like her impact was biggest around Anti but at the same time, Umbrella was a moment that still continues.
I think Gaga has her early singles from Just Dance to Bad Romance but I think Shallow could equal or even overshadow those.
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dremolus - solarpunk
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Nov 5, 2021 12:54:30 GMT -5
Cause it's not that good, let's be honest
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Post by die Lotterie on Nov 5, 2021 13:10:40 GMT -5
To add to the discussion, has enough time really passed for the GP to have feelings of nostalgia for the late 00's and early 10's electropop/EDM/dance? I mean there was a period of time where it wasn't necessarily cool for my age group to listen to bubblegum pop until it became nostalgic.
I also don't think many of her songs from that era were different enough to stand out against the "Bad Romance", "Poker Face", "We Found Love", "Firework" smashes which more or less define that era when looking back. Perhaps in another five years they'll get their due.
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kcdawg13
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Post by kcdawg13 on Nov 5, 2021 15:09:13 GMT -5
I don't think anything she released post-Blackout is really notable aside from Till The World Ends and maybe If U Seek Amy. A lot of it is dated and doesn't warrant repeated listens, it was pretty much radio fodder for the era but not memorable radio fodder like Gaga's hits and the like.
But its also true we are just now getting into early 00 nostalgia, maybe in the next couple years when early 2010's nostalgia sets in her late career hits will start gaining an audience. We'll see.
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Nov 5, 2021 15:15:16 GMT -5
None of it came even close to the iconicness of her first four albums. Blackout and Circus are remembered because of the circumstances of her life at the time. But it's been clear post-Circus that her passion isn't there for reasons we know now. And that has resulted in lackluster live performances and a lot of tracks that she clearly doesn't enjoy or didn't even record, and it translated into the whole thing not come close to the iconicness of, say, the Slave 4 U video.
Look at her passion during any In The Zone era performance, and compare that to the Femme Fatale tour. The spark certainly left, and the media and her family are to blame.
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Post by Private Dancer on Nov 5, 2021 15:33:07 GMT -5
Let's be real early in Britney's career she set the trends and in the 2010s followed the trends.
Her music in the 2000s was basic and generic and like someone said earlier it wasn't even all that good. When you look at the mega hits of that time and look at Britney's songs...they get lost in the shuffle and don't compare to the others. It was just basic and mediocre radio filler songs.
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mkarns
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Post by mkarns on Nov 6, 2021 15:02:27 GMT -5
Retrospectively I can agree with most of this; Britney made her mark and really became an icon in the late 1990s/early 2000s, and songs from that period are what have held up best and most memorable to most people.
"Blackout"'s overall sound became quite influential, and "Circus" is remembered as a big commercial comeback after a difficult period. From there on things haven't held up as well; "Femme Fatale"'s sound is similar to most of the EDM at the time (2011) which may have helped score radio hits but ultimately proved ephemeral especially as newer artists were doing much the same thing. Still, at least FF spun off some successful singles, which is more than can be said for "Britney Jean" (2013) or "Glory" (2016), and by now it's been five years and counting since she's put out a new album at all.
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degen
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Post by degen on Nov 6, 2021 18:04:50 GMT -5
Yeah, that’s what I’d say. The songs/albums/images that had the most impact at the artist’s peak. I know Madonna was mentioned in here a few times. I feel like her peak was the 80s into the 90s but there are also songs from earlier than that that made her impact known well too so I feel like the songs of hers that will never die will be those ones from the 80s to 1990ish. Obviously she had major hits afterward but the focal point will always start at those earlier ones. I’d say Ariana’s will be around the thank u next period. I do wonder about Rihanna. I do kind of feel like her impact was biggest around Anti but at the same time, Umbrella was a moment that still continues. I think Gaga has her early singles from Just Dance to Bad Romance but I think Shallow could equal or even overshadow those. Well Rihanna will certainly be remembered for her 2007-2017 stretch. Nothing from before, or after? The way she stopped her career dead in its tracks certainly will help with that too. Even if she makes a comeback, I’m betting that will be the stretch people will associate with.
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frenchuser
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Post by frenchuser on Nov 7, 2021 13:15:33 GMT -5
I think you're being harsh on her post-2010 catalog. Scream & Shout was her second most streamed track for Halloween on streaming platforms. This track is still regularly heard at gay parties (in Europe at least), along with Work Bitch. Criminal is a viral success on TikTok (which allows her to make at least 100k daily streams on Spotify still today).
But this raises an interesting question of what differentiates an artist with a long career, able to be still considered at each return on the musical scene, and a so-called "catalog" artist. I hope Britney won't be considered as a catalog artist by the GP...
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mkarns
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Post by mkarns on Nov 7, 2021 16:34:01 GMT -5
What’s a “catalog” artist? It sounds similar to what is often called a “legacy” artist: one whose back catalogue remains popular and who can successfully tour and stay in the public eye on the strength of it, but whose new material, when it appears, doesn’t do much.
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irvine22
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Post by irvine22 on Nov 7, 2021 20:21:02 GMT -5
As a big fan, this particular period of her career and artistry will be fascinating to watch if she decides to continue (which I wholly think she will) putting out new music and performing.
If/when shes fully free, I think all bets will truly be off. I can see her living live vocals and a real expression of Britney Spears the artist. I think that will dictate what stage she/her catalogue is in. I wouldn’t count her a legacy/catalogue act quite yet. The woman has hits on hits on hits so if she decides to stop, absolutely catalogue act
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Nov 7, 2021 21:49:02 GMT -5
As a big fan, this particular period of her career and artistry will be fascinating to watch if she decides to continue (which I wholly think she will) putting out new music and performing. If/when shes fully free, I think all bets will truly be off. I can see her living live vocals and a real expression of Britney Spears the artist. I think that will dictate what stage she/her catalogue is in. I wouldn’t count her a legacy/catalogue act quite yet. The woman has hits on hits on hits so if she decides to stop, absolutely catalogue act She absolutely is not going to let her “live” vocals not be edited. That would be a terrible decision.
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frenchuser
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Post by frenchuser on Nov 8, 2021 8:31:50 GMT -5
What’s a “catalog” artist? It sounds similar to what is often called a “legacy” artist: one whose back catalogue remains popular and who can successfully tour and stay in the public eye on the strength of it, but whose new material, when it appears, doesn’t do much. In my mind a "catalog artist" is one whose back catalogue remains popular, sometimes can do worldwide tours but is not able to put new material on the top of the charts (or only for the first week)
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upsidedown
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Post by upsidedown on Nov 9, 2021 8:03:44 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't know if I agree with the premise of the original post. Sure, an artists, especially pop artists, original hits are always going to be more remembered and have the most "nostalgia", but her 2010s catalog isn't "forgotten" IMO.
Scream & Shout has nearly 500M plays on Spotify, and is regular one of her most popular streamed tracks (on par with BOMT, Oops)
Work Bitch has actually been used a ton in pop culture over the years, and despite only peaking in the Top 20 on the Hot 100 has gone on to become a bit of a cult hit as well.
Criminal went viral over the last year on TikTok, and is now actually the most streamed song from Femme Fatale despite being the lowest charting of all the 4 singles. Funny enough, IWG just crossed 100M streams this week, giving Britney her first album with 3 100m+ streamed songs on it.
There's things that have been brought up that are true - a lot of FF hasn't aged well (though I still bop to TTWE all the time) and BJ should mostly be ignored. But she only released 3 albums in the 2010+ period (FF, BJ, and Glory), along with S&S, and besides Glory, there's at least a song in each era that has still been "relevant" per se in this day & age.
Nothing from Glory has obviously stayed relevant, but that's more of a relic of the situation of it. Though #JusticeforSlumberParty persists.
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Dielawn
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Post by Dielawn on Nov 9, 2021 23:04:54 GMT -5
The lack of Rhythm Nation focus is baffling to me. I've also noticed the streaming performance of her 90s hits and then publicity seems to also focus a lot on the Control album, but despite the record-breaking, culture-shaking that Rhythm Nation achieved at the time, it's legacy feels so neglected. “Control” obviously aged better than “Rhythm Nation” which has a late 80s/early 90s sound that very much feels outdated now. The “Control” singles get more play listings and radio airplay now as they were more R&B leaning than the ones on “Rhythm Nation” when there was a clear intention to make her a major pop star on multiple formats. You wouldn't say Control and Rhythm Nation have very similar sounds? Obviously they were both produced by Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis but they seem to both have that very hard-hitting new jack swing late '80s sound to me, no?
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frenchuser
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Post by frenchuser on Nov 12, 2021 5:57:55 GMT -5
Nothing from Glory has obviously stayed relevant, but that's more of a relic of the situation of it. Though #JusticeforSlumberParty persists. Amen !
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degen
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Post by degen on Nov 12, 2021 17:28:29 GMT -5
“Control” obviously aged better than “Rhythm Nation” which has a late 80s/early 90s sound that very much feels outdated now. The “Control” singles get more play listings and radio airplay now as they were more R&B leaning than the ones on “Rhythm Nation” when there was a clear intention to make her a major pop star on multiple formats. You wouldn't say Control and Rhythm Nation have very similar sounds? Obviously they were both produced by Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis but they seem to both have that very hard-hitting new jack swing late '80s sound to me, no? I can see some similarities, but Rhythm Nation had more of an “industrial” sound. Maybe too overproduced? Something about the “Control” songs sound a little more organic. A song like “What Have You Done For Me Lately” feels underproduced, but something about that aged well compared to the more factory like sound on the song “Rhythm Nation.” It’s just too noisy and not as easy on the ears for AC radio. Still love it though. Aside from “Escapade,” I don’t hear any of the RN songs in rotation. Her singles off “Control,” “Janet” and “The Velvet Rope” certainly remain more popular.
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