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Post by ontopofthis on Dec 9, 2021 12:33:58 GMT -5
ontopofthis News flash: every single an artist drops won't be a smash hit, even if they're tried and tested hitmakers. Some songs simply won't connect to fans and the GP as much as others. It happens. I can't believe I have to spell this out. Post Malone's songs have seen much greater heights of success than SZA's songs and he's been a lot more successful and dominant on streaming than she has over more albums. He doesn't have anything left to prove to anyone in that regard. SZA only has 1 album out and a massive fanbase that hasn't been fed with much music over the last 4 years. Them going hard in support of the two songs she's dropped this year (which are songs they've loved for months and have been asking her to drop for just as long) is the least they can do as they wait in anticipation of her next album. My point is that it's silly to count Post Malone out after 2 singles which didn't flop but underperformed for his standards. That man has over a dozen bonafide hit records to his name. He's a hitmaker. He'll find a way. Y'all have counted out artists like Justin Bieber and the Weeknd at similar points when certain singles didn't perform as well as expected but they always turned it around eventually. I think he'll be okay but he'll just have to come with something fresher and less generic than many of his past hits have been. I agree that he has probably peaked commercially and I don't think his next album era will be as massive as his last 3 album eras but he'll be fine. I just don't understand how you jumped to calling him Katy Perry because of 2 duds and then praising SZA like she's this dominant hitmaker in comparison. Two consecutive singles that are meant to launch a new era ought to not be performing poorly. Anyway, what are those 5 x platinum songs that never charted that you brought up? |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Dec 9, 2021 12:35:58 GMT -5
Am I just blind, or are none of the songs from Kelly Clarkson's new holiday album charting (not even the Ariana duet)?! Not sure why you're that surprised: new Christmas releases aren't streaming magnets the year they're released. Carrie Underwood's Christmas album last year didn't have much traction despite it selling well, neither have the slew of Christmas albums that've been released the past few weeks. The Jennifer x Mariah x Ariana Christmas collab from last year took DAYS after release to chart and it didn't even chart in the Top 100, it was always in the bottom half, and that song was actually being promoted heavily and hyped up on social media. I get that in a general sense, but she had a TV special last week and has done other promo. I expected it to help more than it apparently did, at least the Ariana duet since she's still pretty relevant. |
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dremolus - solarpunk
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Dec 9, 2021 13:16:43 GMT -5
Not sure why you're that surprised: new Christmas releases aren't streaming magnets the year they're released. Carrie Underwood's Christmas album last year didn't have much traction despite it selling well, neither have the slew of Christmas albums that've been released the past few weeks. The Jennifer x Mariah x Ariana Christmas collab from last year took DAYS after release to chart and it didn't even chart in the Top 100, it was always in the bottom half, and that song was actually being promoted heavily and hyped up on social media. I get that in a general sense, but she had a TV special last week and has done other promo. I expected it to help more than it apparently did, at least the Ariana duet since she's still pretty relevant. Maybe this may be a lesson in finding out the audience for Kelly Clarkson's show might not be big enough for streaming services/is not an audience that is big on streaming. |
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mms82
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Post by mms82 on Dec 9, 2021 13:34:59 GMT -5
#2 (+2) Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree by Brenda Lee (PEAK: #2 FOR 4 WEEKS)
#3 (=) All I Want For Christmas Is You by Mariah Carey (PEAK: #1 FOR 5 WEEKS)
RATCT potentially outcharting AIWFCIY! |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Dec 9, 2021 13:45:51 GMT -5
#2 (+2) Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree by Brenda Lee (PEAK: #2 FOR 4 WEEKS)
#3 (=) All I Want For Christmas Is You by Mariah Carey (PEAK: #1 FOR 5 WEEKS)
RATCT potentially outcharting AIWFCIY! I'd say that's pretty likely this week. ICYMI, apparently "AIWFCIY" is not on many (any?) Pandora stations, so "RATCT" is killing it there. "RATCT" is also ahead on Spotify. "AIWFCIY" is ahead on Amazon, Apple, and YouTube, but "RATCT" might be ahead in overall streaming. |
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kindofbiased
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Post by kindofbiased on Dec 9, 2021 13:56:05 GMT -5
I will say, AIWFCIY and RATCT have been getting closer and closer in popularity each year but I didn't expect them to be THIS neck and neck
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Angel
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Post by Angel on Dec 9, 2021 14:50:15 GMT -5
For every The Boy Is Mine and One Sweet Day, there is a When You Believe or Me Against The Music. Two superstars joining forces is never a guarantee. Yes, it actually does come down to if the song is good or not. Ugh When You Believe really deserved better... at least it won an Oscar though! I love Tell Him by Céline and Barbra as well... two of my all time favourite diva duets... |
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Dec 9, 2021 14:57:52 GMT -5
Maybe this may be a lesson in finding out the audience for Kelly Clarkson's show might not be big enough for streaming services/is not an audience that is big on streaming. Probably. Underneath the Tree seems to be the outlier for her. She has no other songs in the top 50 Streaming Holiday songs. |
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Angel
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Post by Angel on Dec 9, 2021 14:58:19 GMT -5
RATCT potentially outcharting AIWFCIY! I'd say that's pretty likely this week. ICYMI, apparently "AIWFCIY" is not on many (any?) Pandora stations, so "RATCT" is killing it there. "RATCT" is also ahead on Spotify. "AIWFCIY" is ahead on Amazon, Apple, and YouTube, but "RATCT" might be ahead in overall streaming. Is Pandora ever going to address this? If RATCT is more popular, so be it, but as far as this is concerned, it just seems manufactured. |
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renfield75
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Post by renfield75 on Dec 9, 2021 15:43:45 GMT -5
For every The Boy Is Mine and One Sweet Day, there is a When You Believe or Me Against The Music. Two superstars joining forces is never a guarantee. Yes, it actually does come down to if the song is good or not. Ugh When You Believe really deserved better... at least it won an Oscar though! I love Tell Him by Céline and Barbra as well... two of my all time favourite diva duets... Whitney had surprisingly bad luck with her superstar collabs. Songs with Aretha Franklin, Enrique Iglesias, Teddy Pendergrass, and George Michael all missed the top 40. And her duets with Mariah and Bobby Brown performed well below expectations. Seems like the public mostly wanted Whitney's voice by itself, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. |
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magik
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Post by magik on Dec 9, 2021 15:51:50 GMT -5
Ugh When You Believe really deserved better... at least it won an Oscar though! I love Tell Him by Céline and Barbra as well... two of my all time favourite diva duets... Whitney had surprisingly bad luck with her superstar collabs. Songs with Aretha Franklin, Enrique Iglesias, Teddy Pendergrass, and George Michael all missed the top 40. And her duets with Mariah and Bobby Brown performed well below expectations. Seems like the public mostly wanted Whitney's voice by itself, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. She did luck up with her collabo with Kelly Price and Faith Evans with an impressive peak of #2, but I wouldn't call Kelly or Faith a "superstar," so I guess that's the point. |
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Dec 9, 2021 15:57:35 GMT -5
Some of those collaborations where hits elsewhere though. If I Told You That and Could I Have This Kiss Forever reached top ten in the UK and the latter in several other countries (#1 in Switzerland and Netherlands)
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Dec 9, 2021 16:06:51 GMT -5
Ugh When You Believe really deserved better... at least it won an Oscar though! I love Tell Him by Céline and Barbra as well... two of my all time favourite diva duets... Whitney had surprisingly bad luck with her superstar collabs. Songs with Aretha Franklin, Enrique Iglesias, Teddy Pendergrass, and George Michael all missed the top 40. And her duets with Mariah and Bobby Brown performed well below expectations. Seems like the public mostly wanted Whitney's voice by itself, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. She also had a duet with Stevie Wonder that only peaked at #20 R&B and didn't chart on the Hot 100 (it may not have been a full single, not sure). |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Dec 9, 2021 16:14:33 GMT -5
I do wonder whether there’s something about the hit duets/collabs that make them work compared to those that don’t become hits. Like some sort of a hook or reason why the artists are collaborating rather than just collaborating for the sake of it. Like, there seemed to be a story behind Brandy and Monica and how they were deemed competitors for years before they finally teamed up on a song that playfully played into that. Mariah and Boyz II Men had the story about how they were both working on two separate songs before they put them together into One Sweet Day. Maybe it doesn’t matter but I think it adds a certain authenticity that you don’t really have with the Post Malone/Weeknd or Beyoncé/Shakira, etc collabs.
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Post by whales10268 on Dec 9, 2021 16:26:30 GMT -5
Stay, Industry Baby and Heat Waves are boring top 10 songs, at least the Christmas songs will eat into their business
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hughster1
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Post by hughster1 on Dec 9, 2021 16:33:20 GMT -5
I think what's happened with collabs is that as they've become more common, they've become less special, so there's less of a guarantee of success. When they started in the 70's and 80's, they were unusual so they were almost always big hits - Barbra Streisand and Neil Diamond, Barbra Streisand and Donna Summer, Barbra Streisand and Barry Gibb, Diana Ross and Lionel Richie (Diana's earlier duets with Marvin Gaye were an exception to this), Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney, Michael Jackson and Paul McCartney, Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton, Aretha Franklin and George Michael. All of these duets had two huge chart stars of their era. And one of the things that made duets rare was that if acts were on different labels, the politics of having them record together were complicated, and often a physical single couldn't be released and (because of Hot 100 rules at the time) didn't hit the Hot 100. (This happened, for instance, with "Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming" with Michael and Jermaine Jackson.)
Towards the late 80's and early 90's, pairings of big stars became more common, and you started to see some underperform - Aretha Franklin and Whitney Houston, and Michael Jackson and Stevie Wonder, both come to mind. It became less of an event. And once album tracks could chart on the Hot 100, and as label consolidation made it somewhat more likely that two artists would be on labels in the same family, pairings because even more common. So the mere fact that two big stars are performing together isn't enough any more to ensure a big, long-lasting hit. For instance, if The Weeknd is already on the charts right now dueting with Ariana Grande and with Doja Cat and singing on a Swedish House Mafia track, how big a deal is it that he's got a duet with Post Malone as well?
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Dec 9, 2021 16:37:13 GMT -5
This was discussed on one of the classic AT40 shows - don't remember which one but one of the biggest superstar collab flops of all time
peaked at #59
59 63 71 4 Pops, We Love You (A Tribute To Father), Diana Ross,Stevie Wonder,Smokey Robinson,Marvin Gaye 59
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Dec 9, 2021 16:38:15 GMT -5
I think what's happened with collabs is that as they've become more common, they've become less special, so there's less of a guarantee of success. When they started in the 70's and 80's, they were unusual so they were almost always big hits - Barbra Streisand and Neil Diamond, Barbra Streisand and Donna Summer, Barbra Streisand and Barry Gibb, Diana Ross and Lionel Richie (Diana's earlier duets with Marvin Gaye were an exception to this), Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney, Michael Jackson and Paul McCartney, Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton, Aretha Franklin and George Michael. All of these duets had two huge chart stars of their era. And one of the things that made duets rare was that if acts were on different labels, the politics of having them record together were complicated, and often a physical single couldn't be released and (because of Hot 100 rules at the time) didn't hit the Hot 100. (This happened, for instance, with "Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming" with Michael and Jermaine Jackson.) Towards the late 80's and early 90's, pairings of big stars became more common, and you started to see some underperform - Aretha Franklin and Whitney Houston, and Michael Jackson and Stevie Wonder, both come to mind. It became less of an event. And once album tracks could chart on the Hot 100, and as label consolidation made it somewhat more likely that two artists would be on labels in the same family, pairings because even more common. So the mere fact that two big stars are performing together isn't enough any more to ensure a big, long-lasting hit. For instance, if The Weeknd is already on the charts right now dueting with Ariana Grande and with Doja Cat and singing on a Swedish House Mafia track, how big a deal is it that he's got a duet with Post Malone as well? Your post made me think of the idea of the "pop star" that we have been discussing in a few places as well. I think in the past duets/collaborations felt like more of an event, both because they were less common but maybe because "pop stars" loomed larger as well. It is very common now for artists to guest on a lot of songs, but we of course had a lot of flop/disappointing duets before the "featuring" trend. |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Dec 9, 2021 16:58:27 GMT -5
FYI Billboard actually had a "Hot Holiday Songs" chart in the late 00s. I don't know if it was airplay-only or not, but this was the top 10 in the December 19, 2009 issue:
1. "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree" - Brenda Lee
2. "A Holly Jolly Christmas" - Burl Ives
3. "It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year" - Andy Williams
4. "Jingle Bell Rock" - Bobby Helms
5. "The Christmas Song" - Nat King Cole
6. "All I Want for Christmas is You" - Mariah Carey
7. "Happy Xmas" - John Lennon
8. "White Christmas" - Bing Crosby
9. "Feliz Navidad" - Jose Feliciano
10. "Jingle Bell Rock" - Hall & Oates
I thought it would be interesting to compare it to the top 10 now.
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JukeboxJacob
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Post by JukeboxJacob on Dec 9, 2021 17:01:21 GMT -5
Personally I remember 2012 being the first year that AIWFCIY started becoming the go-to Christmas song
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Dec 9, 2021 17:18:08 GMT -5
Some very interesting stats for the Holiday songs this year so far. AIWFCIY not as dominant, and it seems to me like they may have peaked last year in terms of streams?
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divasummer
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Post by divasummer on Dec 9, 2021 17:30:57 GMT -5
I wonder if Mariah promoting so hard the last few years is starting to be overkill for the public?
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hughster1
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Post by hughster1 on Dec 9, 2021 17:47:34 GMT -5
This was discussed on one of the classic AT40 shows - don't remember which one but one of the biggest superstar collab flops of all time peaked at #59 59 63 71 4 Pops, We Love You (A Tribute To Father), Diana Ross,Stevie Wonder,Smokey Robinson,Marvin Gaye 59 Yeah, looking at that lineup it definitely underperformed, to say the least. I guess the best explanation is that at the time of its release, in late 1978, none of the artists except for Stevie Wonder was on a hot streak - Diana hadn't had a top ten hit in two and a half years, Marvin was releasing his underperforming "Here, My Dear" album, and Smokey had yet to score his first top ten solo hit on the Hot 100. |
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JukeboxJacob
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Post by JukeboxJacob on Dec 9, 2021 17:56:28 GMT -5
I wonder if Mariah promoting so hard the last few years is starting to be overkill for the public? The song's overexposure has basically become a meme at this point so I think a lot of people are sick of it |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 18:21:28 GMT -5
I don't think Christmas during the pandemic should be the standard
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Dec 9, 2021 18:26:42 GMT -5
The MMR radio callouts weekly report finally got fixed. I guess they had to revert it to be released on Fridays. Stay continues to have the highest top 40 net positive callouts, but right behind it is Heat Waves. In the opposite end of the spectrum, Cold Heart has the second lowest net positive callouts.
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Post by phieaglesfan712 on Dec 9, 2021 18:37:36 GMT -5
The MMR radio callouts weekly report finally got fixed. I guess they had to revert it to be released on Fridays. Stay continues to have the highest top 40 net positive callouts, but right behind it is Heat Waves. In the opposite end of the spectrum, Cold Heart has the second lowest net positive callouts. I love Heat Waves, but I think it’s pretty odd that it is getting very good callout scores now, when it was getting very bad callout scores back in the spring and summer. I don’t Levitating made it above middle of the pack in callouts even during its resurgence. |
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Dec 9, 2021 19:58:49 GMT -5
"Levitating" eventually topped callouts. Couldn't find the exact date, but by May 26 it was up to #2 overall on callouts.
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magik
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Post by magik on Dec 9, 2021 19:59:24 GMT -5
I wonder if "Easy On Me" can fend off the Christmas songs a little while longer. We don't see one dominant Christmas song yet. Perhaps Brenda Lee can win the war against Mariah this year.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Dec 9, 2021 20:02:06 GMT -5
This was discussed on one of the classic AT40 shows - don't remember which one but one of the biggest superstar collab flops of all time peaked at #59 59 63 71 4 Pops, We Love You (A Tribute To Father), Diana Ross,Stevie Wonder,Smokey Robinson,Marvin Gaye 59 Yeah, looking at that lineup it definitely underperformed, to say the least. I guess the best explanation is that at the time of its release, in late 1978, none of the artists except for Stevie Wonder was on a hot streak - Diana hadn't had a top ten hit in two and a half years, Marvin was releasing his underperforming "Here, My Dear" album, and Smokey had yet to score his first top ten solo hit on the Hot 100. The song content was an ode to Berry Gordy. Maybe it just didn’t resonate |
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