Nasarati
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Post by Nasarati on Sept 1, 2022 12:18:52 GMT -5
Recently, I've been thinking a lot about "failure to launch" pop stars. This term is usually used to refer to artists that the record industry/big labels/radio stations tried to push as a big star or "the next big thing," but the general population just didn't bite or show much interest.
Common hallmarks of a failure-to-launch pop star:
- Debut on an enormous record label with lots of press. - Featuring on big artists' songs before they even have an album out. - Have a couple of hits that are almost entirely driven by radio, with a much smaller ratio of streams. - Never develop a core fanbase. - Struggle to sell concert tickets even if they have a big hit on the radio, lmao. - Completely fizzle out within a record or two and end up forgotten. - Usually don't have a very unique or individual 'brand' beyond being a generic 'sexy pop star' because they're so overproduced and overmanaged by their team. They bland.
I'm sorry if she has fans on here, but Bebe Rexha for me is the poster child of this kind of pop star. I think Rita Ora also qualifies. It's too early to tell, but I feel like Sabrina Carpenter and Anitta might possibly end up in this camp too.
They can also be thought of 'flop debut' artists, though they often have some success in the beginning when the industry is pushing them the hardest.
Can you think of other examples?
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Post by ilikemilk on Sept 1, 2022 13:33:57 GMT -5
Daya?
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Post by Private Dancer on Sept 1, 2022 13:36:21 GMT -5
Ritz Oracle
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Post by #brayden on Sept 1, 2022 13:47:06 GMT -5
Ava Max, Camila Cabello and Zara Larsson all come to mind. They definitely don't check all of these boxes but they definitely haven't launched into the pop stars that their labels (and likely themselves) wanted them to be.
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Nasarati
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Post by Nasarati on Sept 1, 2022 14:45:16 GMT -5
Ava Max, Camila Cabello and Zara Larsson all come to mind. They definitely don't check all of these boxes but they definitely haven't launched into the pop stars that their labels (and likely themselves) wanted them to be. I think Ava Max is a good example, especially with regards to having radio hits, but no core fanbase and a really bland image. I actually had to google Zara Larsson, and at a glance at her Wikipedia I completely agree. As for Camila Cabello, I don't think she counts. Is she the biggest star? No. Is she as big as her label probably wanted? No. But she does actually have fans, and I do see her in the news sometimes, so I have to assume people care about her and her life, making her an actual celebrity. Daya is also a really good answer.
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gikem
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Post by gikem on Sept 1, 2022 14:56:45 GMT -5
The prime recent example for me is Jack Harlow. Everyone pinned him to be the next big thing thanks to hits that showcased his talent like Whats Poppin and Industry Baby. But by the time his sophomore album dropped, even despite having one of the biggest hits of the year, a massive backlash ensued and he was quickly written off as a subpar Drake knockoff. It’s not impossible for him to recover and retain what made him good in the first place, but that would require some time away from the spotlight and/or higher quality control from his team.
As for a slightly older example, Alessia Cara. I thought she would at least be somewhat big in the mainstream for a while after a busy 2017, but after her next album really underperformed, she was swiftly forgotten and her place in the mainstream was overtaken by Halsey and especially Billie Eilish.
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johnm1120
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Post by johnm1120 on Sept 1, 2022 15:02:35 GMT -5
Nessa Barrett comes to mind when it comes to more recent artists. Also Leah Kate.
Colby O'Donis would be a good example. He had "What You Got" and was featured on Lady Gaga's "Just Dance" but then pretty much just disappeared.
Back in the late 90s we had Meja. She had a minor hit with "All About the Money" and was featured on Ricky Martin's "Private Emotion."
Don Philip appeared on Britney's debut album and had songs appear on various pop compilations. Despite Jive's push he pretty much did nothing.
Billie Piper was dubbed the "British Britney" when she crossed the pond, but to pretty much no fanfare.
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Nasarati
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Post by Nasarati on Sept 1, 2022 15:09:29 GMT -5
Nessa Barrett comes to mind when it comes to more recent artists. Also Leah Kate. Colby O'Donis would be a good example. He had "What You Got" and was featured on Lady Gaga's "Just Dance" but then pretty much just disappeared. Back in the late 90s we had Meja. She had a minor hit with "All About the Money" and was featured on Ricky Martin's "Private Emotion." Don Philip appeared on Britney's debut album and had songs appear on various pop compilations. Despite Jive's push he pretty much did nothing. Billie Piper was dubbed the "British Britney" when she crossed the pond, but to pretty much no fanfare. Colby O'Donis and Don Philip are such a good examples! Leah Kate too, LOL. In a way, I guess 'failure-to-launch' is just another way of saying 'failed industry plant.' I think Billie Piper is an interesting one, since she subsequently became much better known as an actress.
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johnm1120
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Post by johnm1120 on Sept 1, 2022 15:10:31 GMT -5
I think Billie Piper is an interesting one, since she subsequently became much better known as an actress. You could also throw Brie Larsen in there too.
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Post by kimberly on Sept 1, 2022 15:13:24 GMT -5
Anitta is one of the biggest artist globally, so the GP in the US not biting is irrelevant.
Bebe Rexha is a songwriter that tried to make a singing career for herself, and had some success. It might be "radio driven" but "Meant to Be" has 1.17 billion streams on Spotify & 1 billion views on YouTube. She wrote Eminem & Rihanna's "The Monster," and "Hey Mama" and "Me, Myself & I" are legitimate hits for her, both of which she co-wrote. Let's say she was much better at this than people like Bonnie McKee and Julia Michaels.
Sabrina Carpenter is definitely a product of child actor-to-musician factory. She has a core fan base, it seems, but not enough to score a hit. I'll give you that.
Zara Larsson and Rita Ora made waves in their home countries and continent. Unfortunately they've only managed to get a hit in the US once or twice, but I wouldn't call them "failures"—didn't Rita have the record for most #1s among women in British history or something? She's like their local Katy Perry. I'd put them with people like Jess Glynne, Cheryl Cole, Jessie J etc. Zara was discovered on "Sweden's Got Talent" as a child I think and Jessie J was signed after her covers on YouTube went viral, so they had an organic following at the start of their careers that led to the opportunities they received.
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#brayden
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Post by #brayden on Sept 1, 2022 15:17:30 GMT -5
Ava Max, Camila Cabello and Zara Larsson all come to mind. They definitely don't check all of these boxes but they definitely haven't launched into the pop stars that their labels (and likely themselves) wanted them to be. As for Camila Cabello, I don't think she counts. Is she the biggest star? No. Is she as big as her label probably wanted? No. But she does actually have fans, and I do see her in the news sometimes, so I have to assume people care about her and her life, making her an actual celebrity. I guess we'll agree to disagree here. Camila has had several hits at this point but she still struggles to sell concert tickets. Several tours were postponed because of the pandemic but hers was straight up cancelled. So I do think she fits the bill here. The fans just aren't there.
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Post by 🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲 on Sept 1, 2022 15:24:36 GMT -5
Stacie Orrico Paula DeAnda Kat DeLuna Christina Milian Amerie Mya Lumidee BoA Utada Hikaru Cassie Teairra Mari Tinashe
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Nasarati
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Post by Nasarati on Sept 1, 2022 15:25:43 GMT -5
Anitta is one of the biggest artist globally, so the GP in the US not biting is irrelevant. Bebe Rexha is a songwriter that tried to make a singing career for herself, and had some success. It might be "radio driven" but "Meant to Be" has 1.17 billion streams on Spotify & 1 billion views on YouTube. She wrote Eminem & Rihanna's "The Monster," and "Hey Mama" and "Me, Myself & I" are legitimate hits for her, both of which she co-wrote. Let's say she was much better at this than people like Bonnie McKee and Julia Michaels. Sabrina Carpenter is definitely a product of child actor-to-musician factory. She has a core fan base, it seems, but not enough to score a hit. I'll give you that. Zara Larsson and Rita Ora made waves in their home countries and continent. Unfortunately they've only managed to get a hit in the US once or twice, but I wouldn't call them "failures"—didn't Rita have the record for most #1s among women in British history or something? She's like their local Katy Perry. I'd put them with people like Jess Glynne, Cheryl Cole, Jessie J etc. Zara was discovered on "Sweden's Got Talent" as a child I think and Jessie J was signed after her covers on YouTube went viral, so they had an organic following at the start of their careers that led to the opportunities they received. Everything you're saying here is admittedly correct. I suppose I was only thinking in the narrow terms of stars trying to launch themselves commercially in the American market/on the Hot 100; Rita Ora and Zara Larsson's impact in their home countries evidently hasn't translated to broad mainstream success over here. But the U.S. isn't any more important than any other country, so... you're still right. They can be considered "pop stars" in their own countries and on their own terms. Just not over here in the US of A. The same is true of Anitta, who is a huge global star even if the American market hasn't really picked up on her yet. (And that could still happen! Who knows.)
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Nasarati
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Post by Nasarati on Sept 1, 2022 15:27:04 GMT -5
Stacie Orrico Paula DeAnda Kat DeLuna Christina Milian Amerie Mya Lumidee BoA Utada Hikaru Cassie Teairra Mari Tinashe I'm well aware that Utada Hikaru is like, THE most popular artist in Japan of all time -- I wasn't aware she ever attempted to cross over to the English market?
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Post by 🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲 on Sept 1, 2022 15:30:31 GMT -5
Stacie Orrico Paula DeAnda Kat DeLuna Christina Milian Amerie Mya Lumidee BoA Utada Hikaru Cassie Teairra Mari Tinashe I'm well aware that Utada Hikaru is like, THE most popular artist in Japan of all time -- I wasn't aware she ever attempted to cross over to the English market? Yes, she came out with three English albums - "Precious" (as Cubic U), "Exodus", and "This Is The One".
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Daenerys
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Post by Daenerys on Sept 1, 2022 16:20:31 GMT -5
The post made me think of Kim Petras.
She may not fit all of the criteria perfectly but Normani came to my mind as well (unfortunately).
I feel like multiple One Direction guys and most "gone solo" members of former boy and girl bands can be found here as well.
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Post by Az Paynter on Sept 1, 2022 16:47:04 GMT -5
Assuming the US-centric angle of the OP, some local examples from my neck of the woods:
Samantha Jade Signed to Jive Records in the mid-2000's, was working with A-list collaborators and producers but several attempts to launch her never got off the ground and her debut Jive album never materialized. Her biggest US song (debut single 'Turn Around') only made the top 100 on pop radio, and the follow-up single ('Eyes On Me') never even leaked in its original version (only remixes). Eventually she got dropped and she came back to Australia. Later she won The X Factor and finally got her music career off the ground, where she's been decently successful. She has no interest in trying again, presumably because her first experience went so poorly.
Guy Sebastian Multiple songs to pop radio never went anywhere, the only song of his that ever did anything even had the credits swapped around for its US release - 'Battle Scars' is HIS song, not Lupe Fiasco's, but the US release credited it as Lupe ft. Guy. What I find annoying is the lack of any kind of US push for 'Art Of Love' with Jordin Sparks, she was enjoying mainstream success at the time and that song could've done something for Guy's US crossover attempts.
Delta Goodrem Got a couple of songs away on the AC radio formats but she just couldn't crack the market at large. I can only presume her music didn't really fit in with what was popular among US pop audiences at the time so America just didn't care.
The Veronicas I wish 'Untouched' had been bigger stateside, but their other attempts couldn't gain traction. It's a shame they didn't get to ride the wave of Dr. Puke pop-rock hits of the time, 'cause unlike with Delta, their sound was definitely in vogue at the time.
'Dishonourable' mentions to Ricki-Lee and Jessica Mauboy who never did anything with their respective moments of potential US attention - Jess had Flo Rida on her debut single, and Ricki had her song 'Can't Touch It' used in the 'Sex & The City 2' trailer. No effort even made to try and make anything happen.
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SabrinaFan
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Post by SabrinaFan on Sept 1, 2022 19:14:08 GMT -5
I agree with everything people are saying about Sabrina Carpenter, but I would also argue that her label's poor promotion of her is a part of the reason she hasn't seen success as well. "Fast Times" in particular is something I'd think would be really good pop radio material, but the label didn't even bother sending it, or any other single on her most recent album, for that matter. "Because I Liked a Boy" would have been another good one to send, since it's about the Joshua/Olivia drama and was in the top 10 videos on YouTube on its release day, but again, the label didn't even bother to push it to pop radio. There's been a little promotion, but her label seems to be adopting the strategy of promoting the song for a couple weeks after release, and then the promotion just outright stops. It's a very similar situation to what's been happening with Demi Lovato's latest album, and she's also on Island Records. The label isn't even bothering to push the singles from 'Holy Fvck' to radio and there's been very little promotion. I'm not saying this is the only reason why Sabrina hasn't gotten a hit, but I think it's part of it.
I honestly don't know why she switched from Hollywood Records in the first place. Yes, her career didn't launch there either, but at least her singles were charting on pop radio and Bubbling Under when she was managed under them. Beyond her first single under Island, "Skin" (which I'd argue was very much driven by the heat of the Olivia/Joshua drama), no song has even charted.
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Post by johnm1120 on Sept 2, 2022 0:04:08 GMT -5
Sadly, I would also consider Austin Mahone in this category as well.
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Post by musicspy on Sept 2, 2022 1:55:41 GMT -5
Normani checks all the boxes
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Post by degen on Sept 2, 2022 2:41:34 GMT -5
Tori Kelly was being pushed as the next big vocal supreme, but she has had no hits whatsoever. She’s literally the definition of this.
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Post by Disco🌶️📖 on Sept 2, 2022 4:21:08 GMT -5
BTS French Montana Jade Anderson Keri Hilson Manika Nicole Scherzinger Normani Who Is Fancy
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Post by Joe1240 on Sept 2, 2022 4:46:02 GMT -5
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Post by Az Paynter on Sept 2, 2022 4:56:36 GMT -5
Even with a purely US-centric focus this does not track. They've had too many hits (including their current one which is STILL ACTIVE) to be considered a failure to launch. They're overrated as f uck but launch they absolutely did.
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Sept 2, 2022 6:18:26 GMT -5
Stacie Orrico Paula DeAnda Kat DeLuna Christina Milian Amerie Mya Lumidee BoA Utada Hikaru Cassie Teairra Mari Tinashe Feels odd seeing BoA here considering she's one of the biggest Korean solo acts of all time. A different market sure but she launched regardless of any Western success.
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Post by The Music Man on Sept 2, 2022 9:34:18 GMT -5
Anne-Marie definitely goes in this file, at least in the US. Vocals on two Top 5 Pop hits, Ed Sheeran co-written single, then...ciao, adios (sorry, too easy).
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Post by wjr15 on Sept 2, 2022 11:07:19 GMT -5
The first ones that come to mind are Daya, Alessia Cara, and Zara Larsson, all of which had big pushes 2016-17 but didn’t really go too far.
I’m not sure if this one would be controversial but maybe Meghan Trainor. She had a huge 2014-15 with Title and she had a few minor hits in 2016 but then she struggled to get another hit. It really seemed like both Meghan and her label had huge aspirations after Title that never really took off. But idc, she still releases bops even if there isn’t huge commercial success.
Also, would Carly Rae Jepsen count? She hasn’t really had much commercial success post-2012 but she has a loyal fanbase, so maybe she doesn’t count?
Ava Max is a good example. I’d like to think she can take off, but seeing how her recent songs aren’t sticking despite radio support, I’m worried she might be a flash in the pan.
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Post by Az Paynter on Sept 2, 2022 14:23:07 GMT -5
Feels odd seeing BoA here considering she's one of the biggest Korean solo acts of all time. A different market sure but she launched regardless of any Western success. From a US-centric perspective though, she does fit. Her English-language career was a complete failure to launch in the US, she may have gotten a few club hits thanks to her dance remixes, but none of her album's 3 singles were given a proper push. I've long presumed it was because her label was so used to just putting material out there and the market would automatically react (which would be helped by the fact that she was already a massive act in her home market) that they completely failed to follow any of the standard steps to marketing an act in the US market. It's a shame things didn't work out for her in the US, her English album is rather good IMO.
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Post by 🇯🇲 lucy88 🇯🇲 on Sept 2, 2022 18:32:04 GMT -5
Feels odd seeing BoA here considering she's one of the biggest Korean solo acts of all time. A different market sure but she launched regardless of any Western success. From a US-centric perspective though, she does fit. Her English-language career was a complete failure to launch in the US, she may have gotten a few club hits thanks to her dance remixes, but none of her album's 3 singles were given a proper push. I've long presumed it was because her label was so used to just putting material out there and the market would automatically react (which would be helped by the fact that she was already a massive act in her home market) that they completely failed to follow any of the standard steps to marketing an act in the US market. It's a shame things didn't work out for her in the US, her English album is rather good IMO. And Girls Generation never seem to have much impact in the U.S. the way Blackpink and BTS are now.
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Sept 2, 2022 23:19:36 GMT -5
Feels odd seeing BoA here considering she's one of the biggest Korean solo acts of all time. A different market sure but she launched regardless of any Western success. From a US-centric perspective though, she does fit. Her English-language career was a complete failure to launch in the US, she may have gotten a few club hits thanks to her dance remixes, but none of her album's 3 singles were given a proper push. I've long presumed it was because her label was so used to just putting material out there and the market would automatically react (which would be helped by the fact that she was already a massive act in her home market) that they completely failed to follow any of the standard steps to marketing an act in the US market. It's a shame things didn't work out for her in the US, her English album is rather good IMO. I figured that this thread was more than just about the U.S. I stand by what I said
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