Females artists getting more favoritism than male artists

[leonagwen]

Seems like female artists get more favoritism on the pulse forum than male artists. For example, Britney Spears and Elton John recorded a duet of the song Hold Me Closer which debuted in the Billboard Hot 100 top 10 today. Most posters are congratulating Britney but are not congratulating or even mentioning Elton John. Why? Another example, Camila Cabello and Shawn Mendes recorded a duet Senorita 3 years ago which hit # 1 on the Hot 100 but yet most of the posts mentioned Camila but not much was said about Shawn. Why? So why do people on this forum seem to give mote favoritism to the female artists over the male artist especially when there's a duet?

[Juan Carlos]

Well... I'm just going to quote all your post to avoid any edit from you.

Sept 6, 2022 16:59:07 GMT -5 leonagwen said:

Seems like female artists get more favoritism on the pulse forum than male artists. For example, Britney Spears and Elton John recorded a duet of the song Hold Me Closer which debuted in the Billboard Hot 100 top 10 today. Most posters are congratulating Britney but are not congratulating or even mentioning Elton John. Why? Another example, Camila Cabello and Shawn Mendes recorded a duet Senorita 3 years ago which hit # 1 on the Hot 100 but yet most of the posts mentioned Camila but not much was said about Shawn. Why? So why do people on this forum seem to give mote favoritism to the female artists over the male artist especially when there's a duet?

I'm wondering why are you asking this when you actually did the same three years ago when you didn't congratule or even mentioned Shawn Mendes when "Señorita" reached atop the Hot 100. I mean, that song wouldn't have happened without his involvement too.

Aug 26, 2019 15:05:36 GMT -5 leonagwen said:

Congrats to Camila for her 2nd #1 on The Hot 100!!!!

[Daenerys]

I think there is a bonafide question somewhere here about who listeners, fans, and general audiences see as 'the major contributor' or 'power player' when it comes to collaborations. It's basically trying to understand who is the 'Beyoncé' or the 'Geri' of the group but applied to duets or collaboration team-ups.

I think this plays a role in why Destiny's Child's success is attributed solely to Beyoncé, Nsync's success is seen solely as Justin's, Girls Aloud's success is seen as Cheryl's and why Black Eye Pea's success is seen as mostly Fergie's after they had successful solo outings. They had definable hits post group and so now audiences see them as the main symbol of the groups success to support that perspective or argument. Had Harry been the only one successful from One Direction I imagine his fans would say something similar.

The act who is most successful is seen as carrying the duet, group, or the collaboration and they get most of the praise for the success or the failure of the record. The same thing happened with Don't Call Me Angel and Lady Marmalade the success was attributed (rightly or wrongly) to Ariana and Christina given their hot streaks at the time compared to the others in the collaboration.

[iHype.]

Most members on this forum and who follow Pop music excessively tend to be LGBT who gravitate towards female artists in general.

[gikem]

One thing I'd like to add is that many female pop acts do not get the industry longevity that their male counterparts do. Unless it's a woman with a massive cult of personality like Lady Gaga or Beyonce, rarely do female acts stay relevant hitmakers for more than a decade. And in the case of some male-dominated genres like rock and country, it's a miracle when a woman gets attention for a hit at all. Meanwhile, our current pop landscape has male artists like Ed Sheeran, Bruno Mars, Maroon 5, and Drake that have been able to be huge for that length of time and then some, and we've even had recent comebacks from male acts that have been around for even longer like the Black Eyed Peas (minus Fergie, so all men) and now Elton John.

Because of this, I tend to be very kind to women in pop music since their time in the spotlight tends to be a lot more limited. That doesn't necessarily mean I like their music more, but it does mean that I give them the respect they deserve for succeeding in a male-dominated industry, even if it's for only a brief time.

[Daenerys]

Is there any data backing what the shelf life is for a pop act (female, male, or band) compared to R&B, Country, Rock or Rap? I feel like it's not necessarily true that men have more longevity. Maybe the rock or country bands that debuted back in the 60's, 70's or 80's.

But I feel generationally we are starting to see the men age out similar to the women when it comes to pop acts, especially as younger acts are introduced to the scene. For example it's clear Adam and Justin former main stay staples in the early to mid-00's are starting to age out and are being replaced by Beiber, Harry, and Sheeran as they approach their commercial peaks and enter into their majorities as main stay male artists. You could even argue that Shawn was apart of that cohort too for a bit, and is just one hit song away from joining them. 

That to me says the shelf-lives of men are similar to women in the same field if not maybe slightly extended by a few years, at least on pop.

[Private Dancer]

Sept 6, 2022 18:27:27 GMT -5 iHype. said:

Most members on this forum and who follow Pop music excessively tend to be LGBT who gravitate towards female artists in general.

[M5AGTS]

Sept 6, 2022 18:27:27 GMT -5 iHype. said:

Most members on this forum and who follow Pop music excessively tend to be LGBT who gravitate towards female artists in general.

I mean, there's definitely exceptions to this tho. I'm gay, but I tend to gravitate toward male artists more. For context, my top 8 most listened to artists of last year were all men. But in general, yes that's true.

[leonagwen]

My question still hasn't been answered. Why is Britney getting more credit for Hold Me Closer than Elton John on the pulse forum?

[312999]

Sept 6, 2022 23:19:23 GMT -5 leonagwen said:

My question still hasn't been answered. Why is Britney getting more credit for Hold Me Closer than Elton John on the pulse forum?

Britney has not had a hit in a long time so people are happy she is getting a hit again. Elton just had one with Cold Heart.

[leonagwen]

Sept 6, 2022 23:21:33 GMT -5 312999 said:

Sept 6, 2022 23:19:23 GMT -5 leonagwen said:

My question still hasn't been answered. Why is Britney getting more credit for Hold Me Closer than Elton John on the pulse forum?

Britney has not had a hit in a long time so people are happy she is getting a hit again. Elton just had one with Cold Heart.

Elton hadn't had a hit for a long time before Cold Heart.

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Sept 6, 2022 23:30:41 GMT -5 leonagwen said:

Sept 6, 2022 23:21:33 GMT -5 312999 said:

Britney has not had a hit in a long time so people are happy she is getting a hit again. Elton just had one with Cold Heart.

Elton hadn't had a hit for a long time before Cold Heart.

But when Cold Heart became a hit, I saw people congratulating Elton John for getting another hit

[leonagwen]

Sept 7, 2022 0:39:47 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

Sept 6, 2022 23:30:41 GMT -5 leonagwen said:

Elton hadn't had a hit for a long time before Cold Heart.

But when Cold Heart became a hit, I saw people congratulating Elton John for getting another hit

People on this forum were more biased toward Dua Lipa than Elton John on the Cold Heart thread.

[Joe1240]

Most male members prefer Female Pop Artists just as most females prefer male pop artists it goes both ways.

[ilikemilk]

It's always been like that on Pulse. Check polling results, females win mostly especially if they are popular. Only popular male artists can win like Weeknd.

More people also stan females than males.

Some people just cannot come to admit some of the singers they stan can have crappy horrible songs so they say oh my god it's Taylor Swift I will automatically call this my favorite song.

There's also that one Ava Max stan I see who is like omg an Ava Max song, my favorite song of all time. That's just one example, but there's so many people like that here.

[M5AGTS]

Sept 7, 2022 11:02:46 GMT -5 ilikemilk said:

It's always been like that on Pulse. Check polling results, females win mostly especially if they are popular. Only popular male artists can win like Weeknd.

More people also stan females than males.

Some people just cannot come to admit some of the singers they stan can have crappy horrible songs so they say oh my god it's Taylor Swift I will automatically call this my favorite song.

There's also that one Ava Max stan I see who is like omg an Ava Max song, my favorite song of all time. That's just one example, but there's so many people like that here.

On the male side don't forget Harry. People stan Harry here. I would argue Bruno and Lil Nas X as well.

But I will say it makes sense for pop fans, cause pop is more of a female dominated genre, unlike rap, country, and rock. It's not total domination, but in general, pop girls are more successful and more talked about. Also I would argue that pop girls are bigger as celebrities than pop boys. Like for example, Selena Gomez, despite not having a majorly successful career, like Taylor, Ariana, Bieber, she has a massive social media following. And also Miley Cyrus is way more famous than what her billboard stats say.

But for more male dominated genres like country, rap, or rock, it's really just that people on here tend to gravitate towards female artists more. Which is ok. There's nothing wrong with gravitating towards a certain gender when it comes to music. That's just the type of music that you like. There's no sexism involved.

[Nasarati]

This is of course subjective, but I think female pop artists are a lot more dynamic, dramatic, and interesting than their male peers. Ed Sheeran and Justin Bieber are not serving visuals. They're not serving drama. Their music lacks mythos and an exciting paratextual narrative. They can't compete with the multimedia THEATER that surrounds Beyonce, Taylor, and Lady Gaga releases. So, yeah, there's less energy for them.

The only pop boy really delivering on spectacle and glamour right now, in my opinion: Lil Nas X. Which is why we have no choice but to stan for life.

(The Weeknd also transcends the blandnes surrounding male pop artists through virtue of his amazing artistry and his ability to craft narrative. Harry has also been pretty entertaining to follow, and I liked his record.)

[Devil Marlena Nylund]

Yeah, it just comes down to that women artists are much more interesting than men. Maybe it’s out of necessity because of sexism but most male artists are bland. Case closed.

[big2000]

I agree with both posts above. People are just drawn to female artists more than male artists because they’re usually more interesting.

[irice22]

Yeah, but there's way more pressure on female artists when they come back with a new era/single. If one of our pop girlies came back with 'As It Was"as their lead single we'd all be saying "that's it?"

This is a trend I noticed with the general public as well.

[Nasarati]

Sept 7, 2022 11:48:56 GMT -5 M5AGTS said:

Sept 7, 2022 11:02:46 GMT -5 ilikemilk said:

It's always been like that on Pulse. Check polling results, females win mostly especially if they are popular. Only popular male artists can win like Weeknd.

More people also stan females than males.

Some people just cannot come to admit some of the singers they stan can have crappy horrible songs so they say oh my god it's Taylor Swift I will automatically call this my favorite song.

There's also that one Ava Max stan I see who is like omg an Ava Max song, my favorite song of all time. That's just one example, but there's so many people like that here.

On the male side don't forget Harry. People stan Harry here. I would argue Bruno and Lil Nas X as well.

But I will say it makes sense for pop fans, cause pop is more of a female dominated genre, unlike rap, country, and rock. Its not total domination, but in general, pop girls are more successful and more talked about. Also I would argue that pop girls are bigger as celebrities than pop boys. Like for example, Selena Gomez, despite not having a majorly successful career, like Taylor, Ariana, Bieber, she has a massive social media following. And also Miley Cyrus is way more famous than what her billboard stats say.

But for more male dominated genres like country, rap, or rock, it's really just that people on here tend to gravitate towards female artists more. Which is ok. There's nothing wrong with gravitating towards a certain gender when it comes to music. That's just the type of music that you like. There's no sexism involved.

You, I was on board with everything you were saying until the last two lines. Actually, I think the exclusion of female voices in rock and rap is sexist! If you dismiss a rap or rock artist just because they're female, that's not "personal taste," that's misogyny!

Why are women less accepted in hip-hop and hardcore genres like rock and metal? Because these genres are associated with certain masculine-coded traits and behaviors, like being "street" or "hard" or "gangsta" or "badass." Women are excluded, both systemically and individually, based on the preconception that they're unable to be those things.

I'm not fond of the term 'reverse sexism,' but it truly does go both ways. Just as women are deprivileged in rock and rap, men are deprivileged in the pop sphere due to the fact that pop music is associated with femininity, glamour, flamboyance, and melodrama. Think of one of the most pedestrian accusations levied at male pop singers, like Justin Bieber or BTS or literally any boyband-er of the last 20 years: "They're so gayyyyyy, hurdurrr." I can't think of a single noteworthy male pop singer whose sexuality was not subject to major scrutiny, as if being associated with the pop genre is inherently emaculating and disqualifies you from being a "proper, socially-sanctioned heterosexual male."

I think this is why so many male pop singers, like Sheeran and Bieber, have super bland images and music -- to defend their fragile masculinities and their status as heterosexual men.

Anyhow, I digress. If you only like to listen to female pop singers, or only listen to male rock outfits, I don't think that's morally wrong. But I think it's worth asking yourself why and how you developed those preferences; if you're honest with yourself, you might find they're rooted in culture-wide gender norms and driven by sexist or homophobic stigma.

[Nasarati]

sometimes i really do be going off for no reason

[M5AGTS]

Sept 9, 2022 20:32:46 GMT -5 Nasarati said:

Sept 7, 2022 11:48:56 GMT -5 M5AGTS said:

On the male side don't forget Harry. People stan Harry here. I would argue Bruno and Lil Nas X as well.

But I will say it makes sense for pop fans, cause pop is more of a female dominated genre, unlike rap, country, and rock. Its not total domination, but in general, pop girls are more successful and more talked about. Also I would argue that pop girls are bigger as celebrities than pop boys. Like for example, Selena Gomez, despite not having a majorly successful career, like Taylor, Ariana, Bieber, she has a massive social media following. And also Miley Cyrus is way more famous than what her billboard stats say.

But for more male dominated genres like country, rap, or rock, it's really just that people on here tend to gravitate towards female artists more. Which is ok. There's nothing wrong with gravitating towards a certain gender when it comes to music. That's just the type of music that you like. There's no sexism involved.

You, I was on board with everything you were saying until the last two lines. Actually, I think the exclusion of female voices in rock and rap is sexist! If you dismiss a rap or rock artist just because they're female, that's not "personal taste," that's misogyny!

Why are women less accepted in hip-hop and hardcore genres like rock and metal? Because these genres are associated with certain masculine-coded traits and behaviors, like being "street" or "hard" or "gangsta" or "badass." Women are excluded, both systemically and individually, based on the preconception that they're unable to be those things.

I'm not fond of the term 'reverse sexism,' but it truly does go both ways. Just as women are deprivileged in rock and rap, men are deprivileged in the pop sphere due to the fact that pop music is associated with femininity, glamour, flamboyance, and melodrama. Think of one of the most pedestrian accusations levied at male pop singers, like Justin Bieber or BTS or literally any boyband-er of the last 20 years: "They're so gayyyyyy, hurdurrr." I can't think of a single noteworthy male pop singer whose sexuality was not subject to major scrutiny, as if being associated with the pop genre is inherently emaculating and disqualifies you from being a "proper, socially-sanctioned heterosexual male."

I think this is why so many male pop singers, like Sheeran and Bieber, have super bland images and music -- to defend their fragile masculinities and their status as heterosexual men.

Anyhow, I digress. If you only like to listen to female pop singers, or only listen to male rock outfits, I don't think that's morally wrong. But I think it's worth asking yourself why and how you developed those preferences; if you're honest with yourself, you might find they're rooted in culture-wide gender norms and driven by sexist or homophobic stigma.

Well, I actually like pop boys and rock girls more, despite pop being a female dominated genre and rock being a male dominated one.

But also I wanna say this. Bieber, Bruno and Ed are honestly really good at showing masculinity in a female dominated genre, which is something I respect the hell out of. And on the flip side, I can honestly say the same thing about Nicki, Cardi, and Megan showing femininity in a male dominated genre, which is also something I respect the hell out of.

Also, once thing that's good is there's a lot more pop boys and a lot more rap girls in recent years. Like in the 2000s JT was really the only main pop boy. So its been nice to see a little more equality there. (Even though it's still not totally equal, I can still live with it. It probably never will be. But it probably won't be equal on the flip side either.) Speaking of the flip side though, obviously there's been an explosion of female rappers recently, so there's also definitely more equality there now than there used to be.

Also, you're totally right about every main pop boy being rumored gay. Apparently some people just can't wrap their head around a straight man making pop music.

But also, I wanna say this. Reverse sexism definitely is a thing, and it definitely needs to be addressed way more. I've experienced a lot of sexism in my mental health care. Cause I'm gonna get personal here, but when I was in ocd treatment, my therapist said it was the worst case she'd ever seen, but a lot of the girls there were having no problem with the insurance while I was getting rejected by them, cause they probably just thought that I needed to "man up". So it definitely exists.

[M5AGTS]

Sept 9, 2022 20:33:00 GMT -5 Nasarati said:

sometimes i really do be going off for no reason

I just did that too lol.

[Nasarati]

Sept 9, 2022 20:54:44 GMT -5 M5AGTS said:

Sept 9, 2022 20:33:00 GMT -5 Nasarati said:

sometimes i really do be going off for no reason

I just did that too lol.

We're really out here writing a Gender Studies undergraduate thesis on a semi-obscure music forum

[M5AGTS]

Sept 9, 2022 21:02:15 GMT -5 Nasarati said:

Sept 9, 2022 20:54:44 GMT -5 M5AGTS said:

I just did that too lol.

We're really out here writing a Gender Studies undergraduate thesis on a semi-obscure music forum

Lol true.

[childeroland]

Maybe it's just that the people congratulating Britney are more familiar with her than with Elton? Same thing with Dua.

[Deleted]

Honey suckle.. same reason I watch Netflix and Amazon Prime and not PBS.okuur.

[SabrinaFan]

Sept 9, 2022 20:32:46 GMT -5 Nasarati said:

I'm not fond of the term 'reverse sexism,' but it truly does go both ways. Just as women are deprivileged in rock and rap, men are deprivileged in the pop sphere due to the fact that pop music is associated with femininity, glamour, flamboyance, and melodrama. Think of one of the most pedestrian accusations levied at male pop singers, like Justin Bieber or BTS or literally any boyband-er of the last 20 years: "They're so gayyyyyy, hurdurrr." I can't think of a single noteworthy male pop singer whose sexuality was not subject to major scrutiny, as if being associated with the pop genre is inherently emaculating and disqualifies you from being a "proper, socially-sanctioned heterosexual male."

I think this is why so many male pop singers, like Sheeran and Bieber, have super bland images and music -- to defend their fragile masculinities and their status as heterosexual men.

I agree with everything you said, other than I don't know if I'd call it "reverse sexism"? I'd say it's more gender discrimination, since men aren't being discriminated against based on their biological sex; it's the femininity that's being discriminated against. The things you listed - "femininity, glamour, flamboyance and melodrama" are all feminine traits, and femininity in men is often either discouraged or considered cause for questioning a male's sexuality by society.

I don't think most people on this forum think this way, but I would argue broader society stereotypes pop music as being a genre full of "girly girls." If you want to be a male pop singer, society automatically questions your sexuality. I'd say out of any of the main pop boys, Harry Styles is the only one that comfortably expresses femininity in his music, but that's caused people on social media to think he's "queerbaiting," which I find ridiculous and just goes to our point that you can't be a male pop singer without having your sexuality questioned.

I would argue while we're thankfully moving towards a society where sexism is being addressed, we still have a long ways to go in realizing how femininity is discriminated against when it's expressed by men. It's amusing you mentioned a "gender studies thesis" in your other post, because I actually just finished writing a gender studies graduate thesis this spring about the stigma around men being feminine lol (I'm serious though).

[M5AGTS]

It's arguably harder to be a male pop singer than it is to be a female rapper imo. Cause think about it, female rappers are praised as being groundbreaking, inventive, paving the way, etc, whereas pop boys are either seen as gay when they're completely straight, or inferior to pop girls, or both.

Also one of the main pop boys today that definitely expresses femininity in his persona is Bad Bunny. I mean, we all remember THAT music video back in 2020 that had everybody shook more than James Charles. But he's made it clear that he's completely straight.

But all and all, even though it's great to see men get big in a female dominated genre, and women get big in a male dominated genre, that's still not an excuse to tear down the people in the dominant gender, whether that be men or women, which I feel a lot of people do. It's not their fault that they're the dominant gender, so there's no reason to tear down pop girls or rap boys, just because they're not the minority.