Nick
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Post by Nick on Jul 14, 2024 12:00:50 GMT -5
I love me some Kesha, I wasn’t being insensitive to her problems with Dr. Luke. I didn’t think that would affect a Katy Perry song in 2024, but you guys seem to think it has. Oh well. I just hope she drops at least two more songs before September.
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Jul 14, 2024 12:04:55 GMT -5
since people on here are claiming Kesha made it all up now (I believe her, but I know some people do not). That's deplorable. Based on what evidence exactly? |
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Jul 14, 2024 12:07:50 GMT -5
since people on here are claiming Kesha made it all up now (I believe her, but I know some people do not). That's deplorable. Based on what evidence exactly? Basically that he wasn't actually criminally convicted of rape and I guess that he would have been if he was guilty. I used to volunteer for a women's shelter and know how absolutely untrue that statement is though. Rape is one of the hardest crimes to get a conviction, especially if any time has passed. It's really, really horrifying how the legal system treats rape victims in general. Sorry for this convo getting heavy. It is a heavy subject matter though and, again, I really don't get why they didn't just alter the lyrics a bit to make it a random love or party song vs a subject matter that would INVITE these heavy conversations. |
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Jul 14, 2024 12:08:44 GMT -5
That's deplorable. Based on what evidence exactly? Basically that he wasn't actually criminally convicted of rape and I guess that he would have been if he was guilty. I used to volunteer for a women's shelter and know how absolutely untrue that statement is though. Rape is one of the hardest crimes to get a conviction, especially if any time has passed. Precisely. The conviction rate of sexual offenders in rape cases is low I think something like only 6% of rapists ever actually serve a day in jail. That doesn't negate her account automatically. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 14, 2024 12:11:26 GMT -5
In thinking about it, the negative response to the song and video is crazy since it's literally what people wanted from Katy. She tried branching out with Witness and that flopped (I listened to Witness this week and it remains my favourite of her albums) and Smile didn't do anything so she went back to her roots - what everyone wanted from her, and this is what we got. I think it's what we deserve.
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Jul 14, 2024 12:14:08 GMT -5
In thinking about it, the negative response to the song and video is crazy since it's literally what people wanted from Katy. She tried branching out with Witness and that flopped (I listened to Witness this week and it remains my favourite of her albums) and Smile didn't do anything so she went back to her roots - what everyone wanted from her, and this is what we got. I think it's what we deserve. No, this is a repeated misconception on this forum. People wanted an evolved Teenage Dream sound from Katy, not an actual souless 2010 generic pop song. Certainly not one paired with faux feminism and Dr. Luke. No one asked for this. And "Woman's World" in no way compares to the quality of the TD singles. I don't get these assertions that somehow her poor judgement is the audience's fault somehow and all these other strange justifications. lol |
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Post by wavey. on Jul 14, 2024 12:14:38 GMT -5
Not placing the song on TTH was pretty odd. I'm not in the industry, so who knows what the actual plan is. Still a solid song to me overall. Do we even know the process of getting on TTH? Like is it just as simple as a label asking to be included? Is there some qualifiers that must be met, like being an actual "hit"? Is it paid for? lol Idk I'm thinking it should be included as part of the release if they are going to focus on it? |
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Maximillian
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Post by Maximillian on Jul 14, 2024 12:19:59 GMT -5
Always will be team Kesha on this topic. Myself, and I’m sure others in this forum, have experienced this first hand and it takes years to mentally unspool the baggage that comes along with an event like this. Let alone try to play it out in public / courts.
People forget KP was involved in the lawsuit too. Which just makes this whole thing a little more mind blowing, because she was front and center to the media coverage. She knows exactly how damaging this topic is, and has watched careers burn over the fallout.
It’s just a stunning lapse of tone deaf every where you turn.
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Jul 14, 2024 12:25:49 GMT -5
People forget KP was involved in the lawsuit too. Which just makes this whole thing a little more mind blowing, because she was front and center to the media coverage. And this right here is partly why I don't give her grace with this situation and assume she is innocent and "had no ill intentions" working with Dr. Luke. Like, she knew exactly what she was doing, who it would affect, and how it could potentially play out. No way she wasn't warned by her publicist and others beforehand of potential backlash and she's been in this business long enough to know how it operates. She simply thought it would skirt past any minor criticisms unscathed and deliver her another hit, which apparently was enough of a reason to proceed. lol I don't hate or even dislike Katy, but it was frankly a very s*itty move on her part. |
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Post by Snowbeast on Jul 14, 2024 12:34:26 GMT -5
In thinking about it, the negative response to the song and video is crazy since it's literally what people wanted from Katy. She tried branching out with Witness and that flopped (I listened to Witness this week and it remains my favourite of her albums) and Smile didn't do anything so she went back to her roots - what everyone wanted from her, and this is what we got. I think it's what we deserve. No, this is a repeated misconception on this forum. People wanted an evolved Teenage Dream sound from Katy, not an actual souless 2010 generic pop song. Certainly not one paired with faux feminism and Dr. Luke. No one asked for this. And "Woman's World" in no way compares to the quality of the TD singles. I don't get these assertions that somehow her poor judgement is the audience's fault somehow and all these other strange justifications. lol |
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popwizard
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Post by popwizard on Jul 14, 2024 12:54:33 GMT -5
In thinking about it, the negative response to the song and video is crazy since it's literally what people wanted from Katy. She tried branching out with Witness and that flopped (I listened to Witness this week and it remains my favourite of her albums) and Smile didn't do anything so she went back to her roots - what everyone wanted from her, and this is what we got. I think it's what we deserve. I think her original sound was on One of The Boys. Just about everyone from that particular era of pop (Rihanna, Miley, Kesha, even Nicki) has evolved their sound. Katy’s is more regressive to the point that I would imagine this was some sort of unreleased and unfinished track when Hilary Clinton was running for President. Nothing about this release makes sense. And to another poster - Kesha isn’t the only person that has accused Dr. Luke of abuse or of being a horrible person, to my knowledge. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 14, 2024 13:14:24 GMT -5
In thinking about it, the negative response to the song and video is crazy since it's literally what people wanted from Katy. She tried branching out with Witness and that flopped (I listened to Witness this week and it remains my favourite of her albums) and Smile didn't do anything so she went back to her roots - what everyone wanted from her, and this is what we got. I think it's what we deserve. No, this is a repeated misconception on this forum. People wanted an evolved Teenage Dream sound from Katy, not an actual souless 2010 generic pop song. Certainly not one paired with faux feminism and Dr. Luke. No one asked for this. And "Woman's World" in no way compares to the quality of the TD singles. I don't get these assertions that somehow her poor judgement is the audience's fault somehow and all these other strange justifications. lol So Katy misunderstood the ask. Last time she tried to “evolve” she flopped. Maybe she doesn’t know what “evolve” means other than what this song is. When people think of a Katy Perry song, there’s a pretty specific type of song that tends to mean. Even the video is Katy in pure ridiculous fashion, like many of her earlier videos. And she went back to Dr. Luke presumably with the intention of recreating the old spark. In every way, it didn’t work. So she either intentionally made a bad song or she made something thinking it’s what people wanted. |
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Jul 14, 2024 13:39:35 GMT -5
So Katy misunderstood the ask. Last time she tried to “evolve” she flopped. Maybe she doesn’t know what “evolve” means other than what this song is. When people think of a Katy Perry song, there’s a pretty specific type of song that tends to mean. Even the video is Katy in pure ridiculous fashion, like many of her earlier videos. And she went back to Dr. Luke presumably with the intention of recreating the old spark. In every way, it didn’t work. So she either intentionally made a bad song or she made something thinking it’s what people wanted. Were people asking Katy to "evolve" pre-Witness? I don't remember that. What I particularly recall about Witness was it being driven primarily by Katy's own interests at the time, as she was in a very reflective state of her life and was wanting change for herself and her career. The issue with Katy then and now seems to be her own execution of her own ideas. For Witness her intention was "purposesful" pop and her delivery was "Bon Appetit", a song about her vagina, and "Swish Swish" a callback at Taylor Swift, neither thought-provoking, introspective, or particularly purposeful. Here she's going for "feminine devine" and "female empowerment" and led it all off with a collaboration with an accused sexual predator/masogynist and an apparently sarcastic music video featuring a sort of faux feminism, neither of which hit anywhere close to the mark she was aiming for. It's she whose shooting herself in the foot every time. Problem is she seems completely out of touch, lacking of self-awareness, and IMO has no idea really who she is or what audiences actually want from her as an artist, but "Woman's World" ain't it. People didn't love Katy Perry because she was "kooky or quirky or funny" least of all a feminist or deeply introspective, they loved her for being a gorgeous sex vixen who knew how to deliver certified bangers. The connection between Katy and audiences is pretty shallow at the end of the day and you can see that anytime she doesn't deliver a top-tier quality song or maintain the style/image she's known for. |
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bat1990
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Post by bat1990 on Jul 14, 2024 13:48:10 GMT -5
Is she the Sheena Easton of the 2010s, except more out of touch?
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Jul 14, 2024 14:08:56 GMT -5
So Katy misunderstood the ask. Last time she tried to “evolve” she flopped. Maybe she doesn’t know what “evolve” means other than what this song is. When people think of a Katy Perry song, there’s a pretty specific type of song that tends to mean. Even the video is Katy in pure ridiculous fashion, like many of her earlier videos. And she went back to Dr. Luke presumably with the intention of recreating the old spark. In every way, it didn’t work. So she either intentionally made a bad song or she made something thinking it’s what people wanted. Were people asking Katy to "evolve" pre-Witness? I don't remember that. What I particularly recall about Witness was it being driven primarily by Katy's own interests at the time, as she was in a very reflective state of her life and was wanting change for herself and her career. The issue with Katy then and now seems to be her own execution of her own ideas. For Witness her intention was "purposesful" pop and her delivery was "Bon Appetit", a song about her vagina, and "Swish Swish" a callback at Taylor Swift, neither thought-provoking, introspective, or particularly purposeful. Here she's going for "feminine devine" and "female empowerment" and led it all off with a collaboration with an accused sexual predator/masogynist and an apparently sarcastic music video featuring a sort of faux feminism, neither of which hit anywhere close to the mark she was aiming for. It's she whose shooting herself in the foot every time. Problem is she seems completely out of touch, lacking of self-awareness, and IMO has no idea really who she is or what audiences actually want from her as an artist, but "Woman's World" ain't it. People didn't love Katy Perry because she was "kooky or quirky or funny" least of all a feminist or deeply introspective, they loved her for being a gorgeous sex vixen who knew how to deliver certified bangers. The connection between Katy and audiences is pretty shallow at the end of the day and you can see that anytime she doesn't deliver a top-tier quality song or maintain the style/image she's known for. The big problem with Witness was that CTTR, a hit lead single, was released 4 months before the album and the era just went downhill after the single. It didn't do THAT badly though, a #1 debut on Billboard and she did get hits after that as well - Feels, Never Really Over, Con Calma... She just seems to constantly mess up with album eras for some reason. Maybe she overthinks them? Maybe people don't want concepts from her, just fun pop music. |
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MissAmericana
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Post by MissAmericana on Jul 14, 2024 14:16:08 GMT -5
In thinking about it, the negative response to the song and video is crazy since it's literally what people wanted from Katy. She tried branching out with Witness and that flopped (I listened to Witness this week and it remains my favourite of her albums) and Smile didn't do anything so she went back to her roots - what everyone wanted from her, and this is what we got. I think it's what we deserve. Her most viral song currently is “Teenage Dream”. This is very clearly not that. Taking a look at every single from that album, “Woman’s World” is far, far inferior. It doesn’t have the same personality or charm to it. This is more akin to “Roar”, but even compared to that, this falls short. |
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Jul 14, 2024 14:18:01 GMT -5
The big problem with Witness was that CTTR, a hit lead single, was released 4 months before the album and the era just went downhill after the single. It didn't do THAT badly though, a #1 debut on Billboard There were several mitigating factors as to why it under-performed at the end of the day, but namely I think the two biggest were the material not being up to par and her image being completely overhauled. "Chained To The Rhythm" almost feels detached from the era. Two of which were primarily out of her hands/direction thankfully. When the material is good, she's good. "Never Really Over " was too good to fail IMO. She doesn't know what the public really wants from her and that's one of the biggest issues IMO. I think she's still struggling to find herself as an artist as well. Audiences don't look to Katy for artistry, concepts, culturally-relative commentary. They look to her for good, simple, certified bangers wrapped in a visually pleasing presentation. She prioritizes commercial success while still trying to deviate from what brings her that to follow her own interests. Problem is her particular interests and commercial success do not align. If she's looking for commercial success she needs to let people in the know take care of things. If she wants to explore herself artistically then she needs to stop prioritizing commercial success over everything. |
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Jul 14, 2024 15:36:05 GMT -5
In thinking about it, the negative response to the song and video is crazy since it's literally what people wanted from Katy. She tried branching out with Witness and that flopped (I listened to Witness this week and it remains my favourite of her albums) and Smile didn't do anything so she went back to her roots - what everyone wanted from her, and this is what we got. I think it's what we deserve. Her most viral song currently is “Teenage Dream”. This is very clearly not that. Taking a look at every single from that album, “Woman’s World” is far, far inferior. It doesn’t have the same personality or charm to it. This is more akin to “Roar”, but even compared to that, this falls short.While you're right, "falls short" really isn't strong enough a term. Roar, while goofy, had fun and developed lyrics you could actually sing along to. As well as that, it had a very nice instrumental, and extremely well done ad-libs. You come away feeling good after listening to it. Here is an extended stem mix someone made which shows off what I mean. Woman's World WISHES it could have production like this |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Jul 14, 2024 15:37:22 GMT -5
In thinking about it, the negative response to the song and video is crazy since it's literally what people wanted from Katy. She tried branching out with Witness and that flopped (I listened to Witness this week and it remains my favourite of her albums) and Smile didn't do anything so she went back to her roots - what everyone wanted from her, and this is what we got. I think it's what we deserve. Her most viral song currently is “Teenage Dream”. This is very clearly not that. Taking a look at every single from that album, “Woman’s World” is far, far inferior. It doesn’t have the same personality or charm to it. This is more akin to “Roar”, but even compared to that, this falls short. Actually, you're right. Maybe it's "Roar" that Katy is trying to recreate. It seems like she wants to put some sort of a message into her songs, like with "Roar" and "Firework" and, to me, this song attempts to be more in line with those than the actual bops that aren't trying to put some message of positivity out there. I wonder had she went with a non-message song instead, if the result would have been better. Looking back at it all now, the response began with the Dr. Luke connection. While I don't think his involvement is the reason for the overwhelmingly negative response, it definitely set the foundation for it, even if just for a small subset of people anticipating the new single (because, as people keep saying, the "general public" doesn't care about her working with Dr. Luke). But it's hard to shake the poor reputation off of a single/era once it sinks in. For "Woman's World" to succeed now, it's going to be an uphill battle because it's now associated with this initial response. So because the song wasn't better than people's expectations, the bad taste already left behind by Luke's involvement set the stage for everything else to fall. If she was going to work with him, she NEEDED to deliver and she didn't, so the crash is harder than it otherwise would have been. Personally, for me, the song is fine. Despite everything else, I think it's okay. Something that would burn quickly on me and is ultimately a throwaway song but for a hot minute, I could see myself bopping to it. I actually don't think it's nearly as bad as the response makes it out to be. What ultimately bothers me is the length and lack of a bridge. It's an undercooked song and I'm so so tired of lazy pop music. |
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Post by World top 40 on Jul 14, 2024 15:55:27 GMT -5
A very acceptable song. If you don't like it, you don't like Katy. Much better than songs like 'please please please', for example.
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Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ
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Post by Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ on Jul 14, 2024 16:22:25 GMT -5
my opinion on her single choices:
I wouldn't change anything in OOTB and TD era.
PRISM
1.Roar ✅ (perfect lead single)
2.Unconditionally❌ (✅ maybe as the final single of the album)
3.Dark Horse ✅ (should've been the 2nd single, but it was a massive hit, so it doesn't matter)
4.Birthday ❌ (cute, but no. should've stayed as a non-single, not to mention the video...her top 3 worst)
5.This Is How We Do ❌ (it's a catchy summer tune, but the worst single choice of that era imo)
*after Roar and Dark Horse, PRISM's 3rd single should've been Walking On Air, ideal for spring and early summer, such a waaaaste. Legendary Lovers after that, late summer and fall, and Unconditionally around her Super Bowl performance.
WITNESS
1.Chained To The Rhythm ✅ (this was the right lead single choice imo, but I kinda get why it wasn't a huge hit, even tho it's one of my favorites from her. Skip's part is amazing)
2.Bon Appetit ❌ (✅ I don't think this is bad, but I'd change a lot of things: Migos, music video and some lyrics. Maaaybe 3rd single?)
3.Swish Swish ❌ (nah, and that video didn't help. I really like Nicki's part tho)
4.Save As Draft ❌ (not a big fan)
*Roulette as the 2nd single, and Witness after Bon Appetit, I like when eras end with slower songs.
SMILE
Never Really Over ✅ (10000% right choice, but ❌ because it wasn't a lead single, like...but I can't complain, at least it was on the album)
1.Daisies ❌ (I'm sure this song means so much to her, and it's really beautiful, but it's weak single choice)
2.Smile ❌ (nahhhh, it's really basic)
3.Not the End of the World ❌ (definition of I like the song, but I don't want it to be a single or whatever. I cringed at that video, but I liked Zooey there)
*Never Really Over the lead single, Harleys In Hawaii the 2nd single, it's a no brainer, perfect summer/late summer smash hit, Cry About It Later as the final single, also a no brainer.
143
1.Woman's World ❌ (well...thank u, next)
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wjr15
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Post by wjr15 on Jul 14, 2024 16:45:55 GMT -5
^Katy has been plagued by bad single choices since Prism. I 100% agree with your analysis. Songs like Walking On Air, Roulette, and Harleys In Hawaii should’ve all been pushed as singles instead of some of the choices we got. I’m not surprised this era is the same so far.
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Maximillian
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Post by Maximillian on Jul 14, 2024 18:05:46 GMT -5
A very acceptable song. If you don't like it, you don't like Katy. Much better than songs like 'please please please', for example. Oh god, sure. If you dislike this *one* song, you must be anti Katy Perry. The audacity of this comment lol. |
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Grün
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Post by Grün on Jul 14, 2024 18:32:05 GMT -5
I'd just cut my losses and say this was a promo single, and release something else. This is doomed.
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Ivy Leegue™
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Post by Ivy Leegue™ on Jul 14, 2024 18:37:42 GMT -5
Oh well, everyone’s loss. I guess keep listening to ballads. My favorite response.  I'm just glad people have stopped responding to terrible posts, especially ones with personal attacks, with...more personal attacks. Please keep in mind: a personal attack is a personal attack. Consideration and/or blessing will not be given to posts made by unpopular vs. popular posters, ones containing opinions that some mods like or dislike, etc. I have listened to the song a handful of times and...my opinion stays the same. I am not a Katy hater; in fact, quite the opposite. I have supported her when the music was good (and, even in some cases, when it objectively wasn't), but supporting her now just reeks of tone-deafness, no matter how you slice it. What's to support? The song isn't good. The optics aren't good. Are we just supporting things blindly or to counter hate because that...doesn't make sense. I am confident in the album though, based on the snippets that have been released. This was just an incredibly weak first single and could be the nail in her musical coffin. |
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Post by Ivy Leegue™ on Jul 14, 2024 18:38:34 GMT -5
A very acceptable song. If you don't like it, you don't like Katy. Much better than songs like 'please please please', for example. Let's not, shall we? |
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think pink.
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Post by think pink. on Jul 14, 2024 20:46:43 GMT -5
These people working at the label are considered the "experts", are paid millions of dollars and they all heard this song and thought 'this is the one". That baffles me.
Had this song been on the level of "Teenage Dream", I don't think the Luke reunion would've mattered at all tbh. People are still streaming his work. Yeah, she would've still had social media backlash but an undeniable song will get artists out of a lot of things. It just seems like the sniff wasn't worth the scratch here. Now her era is off with bad media publicity and a social media hate train with no hit to stop the bleeding.
The next one needs to really be it or this album is DOA.
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ampersand
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Post by ampersand on Jul 14, 2024 20:47:31 GMT -5
Her first three albums are such good pop records. I wouldn't mind if she had a comeback. "Woman's World" is just okay—I probably won't return to it, and working with Dr. Luke is a CHOICE. I hope the album at least has some bops since she shot herself in the foot with everything about this rollout so far.
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wavey.
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Post by wavey. on Jul 14, 2024 20:55:22 GMT -5
These people working at the label are considered the "experts", are paid millions of dollars and they all heard this song and thought 'this is the one". That baffles me. Had this song been on the level of "Teenage Dream", I don't think the Luke reunion would've mattered at all tbh. People are still streaming his work. Yeah, she would've still had social media backlash but an undeniable song will get artists out of a lot of things. It just seems like the sniff wasn't worth the scratch here. Now her era is off with bad media publicity and a social media hate train with no hit to stop the bleeding. The next one needs to really be it or this album is DOA. Her J.Lo/Nicki era 🤣🤭 |
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think pink.
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Post by think pink. on Jul 14, 2024 20:57:40 GMT -5
These people working at the label are considered the "experts", are paid millions of dollars and they all heard this song and thought 'this is the one". That baffles me. Had this song been on the level of "Teenage Dream", I don't think the Luke reunion would've mattered at all tbh. People are still streaming his work. Yeah, she would've still had social media backlash but an undeniable song will get artists out of a lot of things. It just seems like the sniff wasn't worth the scratch here. Now her era is off with bad media publicity and a social media hate train with no hit to stop the bleeding. The next one needs to really be it or this album is DOA. Her J.Lo/Nicki era 🤣🤭 The unhinged bandwagon hate is so annoying that I actually wanted this to become a hit just to piss them off. Sadly, it looks like they won this round. Hopefully Katy can turn things around. |
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