The Downfall Of Smash Mouth

[The Music Man]

Another topic in the Polling Booth brought up Smash Mouth and its fall from pop stardom. Really, it's kind of strange how it all turned out for them. I used to like them in the Astro Lounge days, now I don't really care for that music or any of their latest stuff...

They started off as a punk/ska band with Fush Yu Mang. One big single ("Walkin' On The Sun") did it for them, and they were catapulted into the spotlight even on CHR radio. Then they released Astro Lounge. While it was by definition, a rock record, there were a number of pop-friendly songs. "All Star" and "Then The Morning Comes" were two of them, and both blew up and became monster hits around the turn of the century. They had appeal with just about everyone, and the future looked bright for them.

Then came their remake of The Monkees' "I'm A Believer" from the Shrek soundtrack. This was arguably the turning point of their career, where things started to fall apart. It was a moderate-sized hit, but nothing special. They then released their self-titled album, which I didn't have the displeasure of hearing, but there was a good bit of cheesy pop crap from what I understand. "Pacific Coast Party" did very little to impress me, and that disaster "Holiday In My Head" sounded like something from Sesame Street.

In 2003, they released Get The Picture? A lot of the critics seemed to like it, but the singles, "You Are My Number One" and "Hang On" were corny and plain old HORRIFIC and failed to make much noise. The album flopped badly, and we haven't heard from Smash Mouth since. Basically, they are now singing to the Radio Disney crowd and not in a good position if they want to get their careers back on track.

Anyway, let's discuss their downfall and whether or not the band has any future whatsoever. Do y'all think if they got serious again and put out some decent material (not kiddie garbage) radio may give them the time of day again, or are they doomed to the Radio Disney airwaves forever?

[Matt4319]

They opened for *NSYNC. That's all that needs to be said here.

[singingsparrow]

TheMusicMan said:

Another topic in the Polling Booth brought up Smash Mouth and its fall from pop stardom. Really, it's kind of strange how it all turned out for them. I used to like them in the Astro Lounge days, now I don't really care for that music or any of their latest stuff...

They started off as a punk/ska band with Fush Yu Mang. One big single ("Walkin' On The Sun") did it for them, and they were catapulted into the spotlight even on CHR radio. Then they released Astro Lounge. While it was by definition, a rock record, there were a number of pop-friendly songs. "All Star" and "Then The Morning Comes" were two of them, and both blew up and became monster hits around the turn of the century. They had appeal with just about everyone, and the future looked bright for them.

Then came their remake of The Monkees' "I'm A Believer" from the Shrek soundtrack. This was arguably the turning point of their career, where things started to fall apart. It was a moderate-sized hit, but nothing special. They then released their self-titled album, which I didn't have the displeasure of hearing, but there was a good bit of cheesy pop crap from what I understand. "Pacific Coast Party" did very little to impress me, and that disaster "Holiday In My Head" sounded like something from Sesame Street.

In 2003, they released Get The Picture? A lot of the critics seemed to like it, but the singles, "You Are My Number One" and "Hang On" were corny and plain old HORRIFIC and failed to make much noise. The album flopped badly, and we haven't heard from Smash Mouth since. Basically, they are now singing to the Radio Disney crowd and not in a good position if they want to get their careers back on track.

Anyway, let's discuss their downfall and whether or not the band has any future whatsoever. Do y'all think if they got serious again and put out some decent material (not kiddie garbage) radio may give them the time of day again, or are they doomed to the Radio Disney airwaves forever?

I think it may be well over for them now.

A #100 debut for their most recent album is beyond disappointing. It's terrifying.

Maybe, by imagining had "Get The Picture" been released third and not the self-titled cakewall, they may still be alive.

They seem to have a healthy relationship and they'll probably keep making music and maybe slip into soundtracks like Baha Men, but they may inevitably be dropped from their label in the near future at this rate.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

[Ragin]

Thay are done.

While I agree the self-titled album was horrible, I thought Hang On should've made some noise. I feel the damage was already done by then. Releasing a kids sounding track first was suicide.

I'll stick by their latest album, as being a great pop album, and I really do think had that been in the place of the self-titled, they'd actually still be pretty big.

Labels don't have patience with this type of thing anymore. I'd be surprised to see another album by them, and if they don't go to a harder sound, one more album would be the maximum limit for them.

I think their real turning point may have been the loss of Harwell's son. I think that as much, or more than anything may have led them to try and entertain younger audiences.

[NORTHCOAST]

Loved "Walkin' on the Sun" and "Then the Morning Comes". Fun and infectious. Remember hearing "You are my Number One" and thinking "WTF?" Don't own any of their albums so can't judge them.

[Bob]

SingingSparrow said:

A #100 debut for their most recent album is beyond disappointing. It's terrifying.

I think that really does sum it up. I'm a HUGE proponent of the underdog and of comebacks, but debuting at #100 is incredibly terrible. It means you have a very small dedicated fanbase and basically that's it. I mean I think all of their friends could have bought the album and debuted it at #100. Justin Guarini debuted higher than that. Albums from stars that were once huge but have moved on and decide to release something for their fans do better than that.

[Ragin]

Bob said:

I think that really does sum it up. I'm a HUGE proponent of the underdog and of comebacks, but debuting at #100 is incredibly terrible. It means you have a very small dedicated fanbase and basically that's it. I mean I think all of their friends could have bought the album and debuted it at #100. Justin Guarini debuted higher than that. Albums from stars that were once huge but have moved on and decide to release something for their fans do better than that.

I bought it :(

IT was really good and deserved much, much better.

[Love Plastic Love]

Everyone tells me it was a good album (even though what did it scan total?? Next to nothing?)
I would like Smashmouth to be successful, but their singles were just not up to par. I think fun pop bands are lacking-we either have 3 Doors Down and Hoobastank singing pop rock slow dreay ballads, or actual rock bands....
It seems to me like very few light, fun, pop rock bands are finding success.

[No Brake$]

You can put Smash Mouth down as one of the most popular alternative bands that became an all out Pop disaster. For some reason I heard Hang On for the first time in my life yesterday on some radio station, and I started getting pains in my stomach because it felt so bad.

When hearing Smash Mouth's music, it reminds me of some kid at a party who tries to be the "funnyguy" but nobody is laughing, or you do a fake laugh just to make them not feel bad.

[Bcacb]

Ragin said:

I think their real turning point may have been the loss of Harwell's son.  I think that as much, or more than anything may have led them to try and entertain younger audiences.

What happened to his son?

Thanks,
Ben

[singingsparrow]

Bcacb said:

What happened to his son?

Thanks,
Ben

In July of 2001, before releasing their self-titled album, Harwell's son Presley died of acute lymphatic leukemia!

:'(

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

[Gorminako]

I liked 3 of their songs quite a lot: "Walking On The Sun", "Then The Morning Comes", and "Waste". Otherwise, they were pretty awful.

[singingsparrow]

Gorminako said:

I liked 3 of their songs quite a lot: "Walking On The Sun", "Then The Morning Comes", and "Waste".  Otherwise, they were pretty awful.

Here's how I'd rate their albums:

********FUSH YU MANG*********

Grade: B+ (It is almost as off-the-wall as you could get on Alternative in 1997-1998. Unlike their other albums, Smash Mouth started out with straight rock and adrenaline punk. "Walkin' On The Sun", a nostalgic eulogy to the beauty of the flower age, by far their best single released, not to mention best song they've ever written, pulsates with a sensual riff that can get you dancing easily. Otherwise, they have quite a few songs that stand out as oddly hilarious. "Heave-Ho" rants of having difficulties with a neighbor thwarting their parties, "Pet Names" laments of cute cheesy names a lover used to call someone, and "Padrino" even takes a satirical stab at the mafia. "Disconnect the Dots" shows a more sensitive side to the band's songwriting, and it caps off with a not-so-mediocre cover of War's "Why Can't We Be Friends". If those unfamiliar with the original Smash Mouth by this now, they may give them a second wind.

***************ASTRO LOUNGE*************

Grade: B- (Smash Mouth begin to leap in poppier territory on this album, though it still has an alternative atmosphere in the likes of No Doubt, etc. Though lacking the crunch of their debut, this is not a bad album either. You have the mega-hit I don't need to mention again ("All Star") not to mention the cleverly arranged "Then The Morning Comes". "Waste" shows some of the band's most mature songwriting yet in a darker mood compared to their other songs, while "Fallen Horses" hints more of that. Nevertheless, they still love to have fun, and there's no problem there. There are some hits, some misses with that. "Who's There" makes an enthralling album entrance, "Diggin' Your Scene" is what you can expect from Smash Mouth, and "Radio" has an ethereal atmosphere to it. "Road Man" and "I Just Wanna See" meanwhile come off as a bit cheesy. No problem, albums need a little bit of the run-off calcium.

*************SMASH MOUTH**********

Grade: F (A mix of things may have lead to this burnout. Understandably it could have been the loss of Harwell's son to leukemia, writer's block, or perhaps arrogance from the success of "Astro Lounge". Whatever it was, this album is punctuated with shame. First off, two of the three singles are terrible. "Pacific Coast Party" is actually not a bad one, but the cover and "Holiday In My Head" are no-brainer productions. But the radio songs are just the tip of the iceberg. They attempt to be experimental and diverse but then it shows they're all working from the same vein. "Sister Psychic" could have had potential but comes off as a blank tea leaf reading. "Hold You High" and "The In Crowd" are scraps they're feasting on. And in the attempt to write a more mature song in the vein of "Waste", "Disenchanted" is a bore. This album is basically watered down B-sides to "Astro Lounge" smothered with artificial ambrosia.

**************GET THE PICTURE************

Grade: C+ (Smash Mouth realize themselves how pathetic their last effort was, and come back to their senses. Despite a bad first single ("You Are My Number One") among the rest we see a great improvement. "105" and "Looking For A Wall" displays some of their best arrangement, "Always Gets Her Way" has a good pulse, and "Seventh Grade Dance" and "Hot" really bring in the atmosphere. "Space Man" and "New Planet" tend to be repetitive to the "Astro Lounge" days, but, all in all, this does not disappoint, especially after a tear-jerking embarrassment.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

[Ragin]

Good analysis. I'd give their last one slightly higher marks, but then everyone's a little different.

I think the key point here is that #3 was SO bad that it killed their chances of GEt The Picture before they had even released it. They completely buried it with one of the worst lead off single decisions I've ever seen.

The thing about Smash mouth is that you take away the cheesiness and you still have a really cool funky retro-vibe that works. Had they embraced that in #3 instead of trying to shun it, we would not be having this discussion today.

[Radical347]

I agree with Noah's ratings. I'd only tweak them slightly, giving "Fush You Mang" a B and "Astro-Lounge" a B+. Some of the FYM tracks I couldn't get into, but I thought overall AL was overall a very good effort. My favorites by them are "All Star" and the ones Gorminako mentioned.

They lost their core alternative fanbase (but gained tons of new fans) with "Astro-Lounge," but then lost everyone with their self-titled album. Once that happens, it's hard to get anyone back.

I almost picked up "Get the Picture" when I was in Japan because it was tons better than "Smash Mouth" and it had 3 bonus tracks. (Interestingly enough, the self-titled track is the international bonus track.) The Japanese-exclusive bonus track, "Boulevard," is one of the best songs I've heard by them. It sounds kind of like "Waste." I didn't get it though, because I was still soured on them from "Smash Mouth" but if I go back there later, I might try to find a used copy.

[crazyfun1]

I don't know if this is new news or old news to some people, but Smash Mouth was SUPPOSED to play at Fair St.Louis, but were booted out, because of something that happened at some other event. The Wallflowers have now replaced them.

[Ragin]

The thing that is really sad is that they are GREAT live.

I saw them last August and they did in addition to their hits some covers that blew me away. A cover fo Van Halen's Runnin' with the Devil and House of Pain's Jump sounded dynomite, suggesting that Harwell can do more vocally than he has been.

The crowd gives them no chance with their new material though, no matter how good it sounds, and that to me, is sad. That's the way it is with any band, but I think people need to open their minds a bit. I'll never forget going to a concert with Cheap Trick and Reo Speedwagon, and REO did this incredible new song that to me sounded better than any of their "hits", and people just sat on their hands, but start playing I Can't Find This Feeling which sucks, and they are all up on their feet.

Sorry to rant, but it drives me nuts when people can't appreciate a good live act.

[Jeffster]

You Are My Number One is a great song. By far my favorite of theirs, I don't know why people always diss good songs and prop up bad ones. I'm glad I gave them a chance after "Walking On The Sun", that song was terrible.

[Radical347]

Ragin said:

The thing that is really sad is that they are GREAT live.

Sorry, I'll have to disagree with this. I saw them at the Buffalo County Fairgrounds (was that where you saw them too?) when they were there and my gosh, it was such a bad concert (second only to the drunk Counting Crows.) Their sound? Ehh, it was alright (I didn't think it was great or anything), but they couldn't connect with the audience at their concert I went to.

Harwell looked such like an idiot on stage. He danced around like he was flaming or something, except flaming in an awkward manner. Then during Pacific Coast Party he had a few kids go on stage but he couldn't get them to sing when he gave the mike to them.

But the worst part: hearing 1000 ten-year-olds chanting "you might as well be walking on the sun."

[Ragin]

HowieDayFan said:

Sorry, I'll have to disagree with this.  I saw them at the Buffalo County Fairgrounds (was that where you saw them too?) when they were there and my gosh, it was such a bad concert (second only to the drunk Counting Crows.)  Their sound?  Ehh, it was alright (I didn't think it was great or anything), but they couldn't connect with the audience at their concert I went to.

Harwell looked such like an idiot on stage.  He danced around like he was flaming or something, except flaming in an awkward manner.  Then during Pacific Coast Party he had a few kids go on stage but he couldn't get them to sing when he gave the mike to them.

But the worst part: hearing 1000 ten-year-olds chanting "you might as well be walking on the sun."

Buffalo County Fairgrounds? When? We were going to go one year, but then Harwell's son died, so the concert was cancelled.

This was at the Illinois State fair, and I was going as much for Everclear as Smash Mouth, and Everclear was so horrible live, that Smash Mouth couldn't help looking good, but they were excellent on top of that. I'd seen them once before when they still had mosh pits right when All Star was blowing up, and they were excellent then too. That's all I can go by, I guess. I think it helped that they played 5 or 6 songs off of Fush Yu Mang and the audience loved it.

[pkwi]

Bottom Line, Smash Mouth need to grow up, several years ago people were into mostly light-hearted/no meaning music, but now some (some, not all) want more to their music, a deeper meaning, and the flavorless production and air-headed lyrics by Smash Mouth aren't good enough.

[Deleted]

pkwi said:

Bottom Line, Smash Mouth need to grow up, several years ago people were into mostly light-hearted/no meaning music, but now some (some, not all) want more to their music, a deeper meaning, and the flavorless production and air-headed lyrics by Smash Mouth aren't good enough.

That's why the charts are filled with party music by Lil Jon and sappy ballads like "The Reason".

[pkwi]

The said:

That's why the charts are filled with party music by Lil Jon and sappy ballads like "The Reason".

That's why I put "some" in bold. :)

[Ragin]

pkwi said:

Bottom Line, Smash Mouth need to grow up, several years ago people were into mostly light-hearted/no meaning music, but now some (some, not all) want more to their music, a deeper meaning, and the flavorless production and air-headed lyrics by Smash Mouth aren't good enough.

They tried some of that, and it led to their downfall. Their experimentation on their self-titled album coupled with very poor attempts at hits just killed them. Smash mouth isn't about deep lyrics, they are about fun and a cool sound. Trying to be something they aren't would not have worked for them any better.

[pkwi]

However, as of December 2003 they've sold less than 50,000 copies to date of Get The Picture? (Spin, Dec. 03), when they went back to their light/summertime - Pop mode. I'm not saying to completely and drastically change into a monotone and darker state, but something not as air-headed. They should take a note from Blink 182's recent transformation, sticking along the lines of one's genre, yet digging deeper.

[Ragin]

pkwi said:

However, as of December 2003 they've sold less than 50,000 copies to date of Get The Picture? (Spin, Dec. 03), when they went back to their light/summertime - Pop mode. I'm not saying to completely and drastically change into a monotone and darker state, but something not as air-headed. They should take a note from Blink 182's recent transformation, sticking along the lines of one's genre, yet digging deeper.

That's not at all because of what is on the album though. Critics liked it, but music fans never gave it a chance because of the self titled disaster. They made a colossal mistake on that lead single release too. You Are My Number One was easily the worst song on the album in my opinion.

Their alternative fans are long gone though. Their only chance was to go back to pop, and now they are done.

[pkwi]

That's where I disagree, I think that if they go more mature like Blink 182 did, then they could have another commercially successful album, however without sucking all of the fun out, just not such a California/summer sound.

[singingsparrow]

pkwi said:

That's where I disagree, I think that if they go more mature like Blink 182 did, then they could have another commercially successful album, however without sucking all of the fun out, just not such a California/summer sound.

You have to understand too, however, that Blink-182 has had consistent success commerically, unlike Smash Mouth. Therefore, Blink-182 has their advantages in being able to be given the chance to experiment without being exiled.

None of their albums since "Enema Of The State" have missed going multi-platinum (this does include their live release "The Mark, Tom and Travis Show (The Enema Strikes Back) of course! :) )

* "Enema Of The State" is at 5X platinum.

* "Take Off Your Pants and Jacket" is at 2X platinum.

* "Blink-182" is at platinum-plus status.

Smash Mouth, meanwhile, have shown no consistency. Despite a double platinum "Fush yu Mang" and a triple-platinum "Astro Lounge" that avoided the sophomore slump, "Smash Mouth" could only go Gold (a more than 83% slide in sales between albums) and "Get The Picture" can only move about 50,000 units (a 90% slide! :o :o :o ).

Smash Mouth needs more than maturing now, they need the most inconceivable miracle too to be heard again.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

[ultramix1978]

I thought they would've did better if they released "New Planet" as the first single. But sometimes when your 6 minutes of fame are up you just get black balled, just like 80's power ballads in the mid 90's. It would'nt have mattered if Poison would have written a ballad better than "Every rose.." with grunge so big it would have flopped, in fact in 1999/2000 even though rock was coming back around "The Last Song" was completly over looked off poison's Power 2 the people cd. It just goes to show you how the biz is, strike while your hot and don't hold anything back cause come tommorrow you could be OLD NEWS!!!!!!!!! It shouldn't be that way, a hit should always be a hit or it isn't, but that's corporate radio for you........

[Ragin]

Well said, and it's true. For that reason, I hate it when people say certain groups just "didn't have it anymore" when it's clear their songs were just as good or better. I'd sure like to keep getting music from them though, but I bet that's the last album they do.