Is there room for country in E US/CA urban cities?

[suzy]

I do not think so but would like to know what you think.

Thanks

[jimmy74747]

Pretty much every major city on the east coast has a country station except NYC.  In Baltimore, WPOC is #1 in the ratings, and the stations in Washington, Phily & Boston are in the Top 10. 

In Hartford, WWYZ does very well, consitantly ranking 3rd or 4th, but thats not really a major city.

While those who live in the cities may not listen to country radio, many in the suburbs (especially middle class soccer moms who advertisres crave) sure do.

[allow that]

I live in a very suburban area and I can tell you no one here has any interest in Country music, including middle-aged men and women.

[JCMF3]

jerseyboy said:

I live in a very suburban area and I can tell you no one here has any interest in Country music, including middle-aged men and women.

You can't possibly know that not one person in your town/city has listened to/listens to country music.

Anyways, I agree with jimmy. These stations consistently bring in huge numbers in big east coast markets. They belong there, and I don't see them going away.

[KikiMets]

*Tries to imagine her parents or their friends listening to a country station from the comfort of their suburban homes and cars*
*Falls out of chair from laughing so hard*

Seriously, NYC (and the surrounding metro area) is quite different culturally from the rest of the country in many ways. Even though country stations work in other large cities, it's not something there's really an interest in here.

[JCMF3]

I'm actually a little surprised NYC doesn't have a country station, considering how diverse the city claims to be. But, fortunately, other cities in the NE are different. Philadelphia, Boston, and Providence, for example, have well-established, well-listened-to country stations.

[reception]

Don't such cities have room for only one country station? Thank god, they're on the FM band.

[Slinky]

Country does fine on the outskirts of cities.  It's hard to say whether a Country station would work in NYC, but when it was tried before, it got ratings about equal to what Mix 102.7 gets now. 

In the NYC area, Country has always had its strongest appeal in Jersey.  When there was a Country station at 107.1 in Monmouth County, it did OK.

[Marv]

I would think that country station in NYC, assuming it had a respectasble signal which could cover Long Island and a large chunk of northern New Jersey, as well as NYC's far northern suburbs (White Plains and vicinity) wouldn't have any trouble doing quite well, certainly with ratings which would place it in the top 10.

It would certainly be another choice for adults in NYC, alongside WLTW.

Besides Baltimore perennial powerhouse WPOC, there are also very strong country stations in markets such as Buffalo, Syracuse and Albany.

If you want a station with the BEST shot at snagging a 10.0+ share, country radio is far and away the best bet out there.

[tico]

Suzy also asked about California. Country does somewhat well in California, depending on what market it is. In San Diego, the KSON-FM/KSOQ simulcast is #2 in the market, with Clear Channel country station KUSS in the top ten too. Up the road in Los Angeles, KZLA is #22 in the most recently released ratings. Not exactly a hotbed for country music. Country, however, does a lot better in the Riverside-San Bernardino market, where KFRG is #3. Country also does well in Sacramento, Fresno and Bakersfield, and pulls decent numbers in San Jose. However, it hasn't done very well in San Francisco, as seen by the recent flip of KZBR to variety hits.

[Marv]

KZLA has been hurt by a number of VERY dumb things....

1)---CMA/ACM/Grammy/Oscars announcer Shawn Parr, who does 10 AM-3 PM, should be doing mornings; he's a scream!!!

2)---The morning show is very weak---hosted by a former talk show host named Peter Tilden; furthermore his show is supposed to be on from 5-10 AM, but the station uses sweepers sporadically during the opening of the show, so you never know whether or not he's going to say 'Good Morning, etc'...until 5:10, 5:25, or whenever, killing the ability of bonding with the audience.

3)--The station, owned by Emmis, is strangled with LOTS of commercials; up to 25% of a typical hour is inundated with commercials, promos, and the loudest and most obnoxious sweepers/jingles out there.

Contrast that with KFRG in nearby Riverside/San Bernardino, which was nominated for station of the year in 2002, has a SOLID morning show, and plays MUCH more music with FAR fewer commercials. Thank goodness I live in a part of Los Angeles where I can hear KFRG; given the FCC's DREADFUL ability at preventing out-of-town radio stations from overwhelming LOTS of LA's FM radio stations, you need a REALLY good stereo in your car or at home to avoid station interference, a HUGE problem throughout Southern California.

KUZZ in Bakersfield, owned by the beyond legendary Buck Owens, is a STANDOUT country station and neck-and neck with KFRG and KSON as the best on the West Coast, although Seattle's KMPS is also a solid Country station as well.

[allow that]

Ok, I live in Northern Jersey. I love how people who have no idea what life is like here are saying that Country would do well here. It wouldn't. People here relate to sports cars, designer clothes, gourmet cuisine, and the ghetto. Not the Wal-Mart culture that goes on in other area of the country. Speaking of that, Wal-mart finally opened here and it's struggling.

Aside from that, NYC has no Alternative station which is by FAR a more popular and more needed format than Country. 

[Slinky]

You live near Morristown, right? Please explain this:

Morristown 12+ Ratings, Country and Rap stations:
WCTO-FM Citadel Country 1.1 1.3 1.5
WQHT-FM Emmis CHR/Rhythmic 2.2 1.6 1.1
WWPR-FM Clear Channel Urban 0.6 0.7 0.5

Maybe all the people you know don't like Country. I only knew one person who liked Country when I lived in Philly, but Country is still top 10 there.

[allow that]

slinky said:

You live near Morristown, right?  Please explain this:

A) I wouldn't consider it being #17 successful. I didn't even know there are 17 stations that get recepetion here!
B) The fact that Hot 97 isn't Top 10 on that chart speaks volumes. It's inaccurate.

[EvanJ]

I agree that WCTO isn't doing that well in Morristown, but it's not a local station. WCTO is Number 1 in Allentown-Bethlehem so I would expect little to none of their revenue to come from Morristown businesses advertising.

[Slinky]

Right, WCTO is considerably less local than the NY FMs (WLTW is #1 in Morristown), and yet people are still going out of their way to listen to it.

You can make the argument that New Jersey doesn't want a Country station, but your argument is with Arbitron, not me.  And you can't ignore the fact that Country was getting a 6.6 share (add WWZY, WJRZ, and WPUR) in Monmouth-Ocean as recently as 2001.

[allow that]

slinky said:

Right, WCTO is considerably less local than the NY FMs (WLTW is #1 in Morristown), and yet people are still going out of their way to listen to it.

You can make the argument that New Jersey doesn't want a Country station, but your argument is with Arbitron, not me. 

Well, you're right. I never really saw Arbitron as completely fool proof, 100% smack accurate. This is more evidence.

Also, if that station is from Allentown, I'm guessing Arbitron is using "Morristown" as the biggest city of the area, but indeed looking at a larger area including the western fringes of my state. That would definitely make a lot more sense, because the closer you get to the PA border, the lower the level of sophistication becomes. (That's not a stab at anyone from the great city of Philly or its surrounding suburbs- it's just something true... western Jersey by the PA border is all farmland)

And you can't ignore the fact that Country was getting a 6.6 share (add WWZY, WJRZ, and WPUR) in Monmouth-Ocean as recently as 2001.

Uh, that's Southern New Jersey. Things are different there. That's got nothing to do with where I live.

[Slinky]

jerseyboy said:

Also, if that station is from Allentown, I'm guessing Arbitron is using "Morristown" as the biggest city of the area, but indeed looking at a larger area including the western fringes of my state. That would definitely make a lot more sense, because the closer you get to the PA border, the lower the level of sophistication becomes.

The Morristown market is all of Morris County. Morris County is also part of the NY market.

And you can't ignore the fact that Country was getting a 6.6 share (add WWZY, WJRZ, and WPUR) in Monmouth-Ocean as recently as 2001.

Uh, that's Southern New Jersey. Things are different there. That's got nothing to do with where I live.

Monmouth County, where most of the Monmouth-Ocean population lives, is part of the NY market, so it's still relevant to this discussion. My point was that in NY, Country doesn't have much appeal, but there is some appeal on the Jersey fringes of the market.

I think if Morristown and Monmouth County had Country stations, they would be moderately successful. They wouldn't be #1, but they'd be in the middle of the ratings in their respective markets.

[reception]

So is New York the only market in the east without a country music station?

[EvanJ]

slinky said:

Monmouth County, where most of the Monmouth-Ocean population lives...

www.arbitron.com/downloads/redbook_fa05.pdf
According to Arbitron's Fall 2005 Red Book, Monmouth County has a population of 539,800 which is 52.85% of the Monmouth-Ocean market population of 1,021,400.  Therefore Monmouth and Ocean have near equal populations.

[tico]

reception said:

So is New York the only market in the east without a country music station?

As far as major markets, yes.

[Marv]

I don't know how long those ratings for WWPR will hold up; Clear Channel fired the PD (as well as the PD of sister station KHTS San Diego after NY Attorney General Elliot Spitzer' s payola investigation.

[jimmy74747]

jerseyboy said:

That would definitely make a lot more sense, because the closer you get to the PA border, the lower the level of sophistication becomes. (That's not a stab at anyone from the great city of Philly or its surrounding suburbs- it's just something true... western Jersey by the PA border is all farmland)

Yeah, and the urban and rhythmic stations that top the NYC market are so much more high class than country stations.

[Slinky]

I didn't even address that, but Jimmy's got a point. I wouldn't call any of the stations that top the ratings in NY or NJ "sophisticated". Shouldn't sophisticated, high-class listeners be listening to Classical, Jazz, AAA, or NPR?

[allow that]

jimmy74747 said:

Yeah, and the urban and rhythmic stations that top the NYC market are so much more high class than country stations. 

They are.

[allow that]

slinky said:

I didn't even address that, but Jimmy's got a point.  I wouldn't call any of the stations that top the ratings in NY or NJ "sophisticated".  Shouldn't sophisticated, high-class listeners be listening to Classical, Jazz, AAA, or NPR?

Which is why most people I know don't listen to radio, in general. Unless its XM or Sirius. New Jersey is a CD culture!

[bigbluenote]

Isn't there over 8 million people on the island of Manhattan alone? Take that into account with the outlying areas and a Country station could easily do well among the other formats. No, it's not the most popular genre, but it's steadily gaining listeners all the time. And if there was a station in NYC, it would give more people the opportunity to hear country music and possibly even like music they'd never thought of listening to.

[Marv]

I don't think the fact that the CMA's are going to be held in NYC in two weeks is a bad idea either, and I'm sure that some of the powerhouse Country stations in Allentown, Albany & Syracuse will promote the hell out of it, and proabbly give away some trips to the ceremony.

I wish there was a Country station in NYC; it would certainly give the format a HUGE boost, since it's far and away the #1 format in America in total listeners, number of stations, and average ratings share.

[allow that]

I have an idea. Let's push for a Country station in London, too. Because it would honestly do better there than NYC.

[Houster]

We had a country station for many years in New York -- WYNY. In 1997, it switched to rhythmic and became WKTU, which I believe gets better ratings than WYNY ever did.

I'd like to see Country (and Alternative Rock) stations here in New York, but I won't hold my breath. I may be the only one who thinks this, but the New York radio market is a vast wasteland, and I am being underserved. And I don't have the extra money to pay $150 a year for satellite radio.