allow that
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Post by allow that on Oct 8, 2003 21:47:30 GMT -5
I got the go ahead from our administrator to see if people would be interest in an Global Forum. It would be used to discuss: - Singles, albums, and airplay charts from Europe, Australia, and wherever else
- Songs released internationally but not in North America
- Non-English-language songs
- International music-related events (i.e. MTV Europe Music Awards, etc.)
______________________________________ I personally think this would be a good idea. It would introduce us to new music and would keep all the international charts in one place, which is kind of better than sifting through pages in the Music News Forum trying to find the Australian airplay chart or whatever.
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prenatt1166
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Post by prenatt1166 on Oct 8, 2003 21:51:58 GMT -5
I'm not trying to be picky, but many acts are promoted differently in Canada and the US, so shouldn't one or the other be considered international?
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Post by allow that on Oct 8, 2003 21:54:44 GMT -5
I'm not trying to be picky, but many acts are promoted differently in Canada and the US, so shouldn't one or the other be considered international? Well, since most of our posters are either from USA or Canada, we can make the International Forum kind of non-North America instead of non-USA, but overall there aren't TOO many differences in songs being released in USA and Canada. But if one of our Canadian posters would like to start a topic about a Can-Con song, they may do so in International Forum or whichever individual format forum they deem appropriate. It'd be their call.
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prenatt1166
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Post by prenatt1166 on Oct 8, 2003 22:08:17 GMT -5
Thank you for clarifying that. I discovered some acts like Chantal Kreviazuk and Out Lady Peace on the R&R boards. I didn't want to miss any other Canadian acts that I may not know anything about.
:)
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Post by j on Oct 8, 2003 22:43:30 GMT -5
I feel that the potential for overlapping will be more than the worth of an international music forum.
For example, I'd rather have the release of "Ka-Ching!" in Europe discussed in a general Shania Twain discussion thread than in a new topic in an international music forum.
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Sean
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Post by Sean on Oct 8, 2003 22:43:42 GMT -5
Kinda cool, kinda not cool, more not cool. I voted don't care but now I would change my vote to NO I HATE THAT IDEA!
I fear you'll just get the same 10 posters posting in that forum and nobody else will visit it. At least now the international stuff is in with everything else so people have a chance of seeing it. I think some people might check out international charts and artists now because they're in their face in the music news forum but they won't make a special effort to visit an international forum thus segregating it even further. It's not like there are *too many* international related topics at the moment and it's nice to keep them with everything else. I just wish more people would check some international stuff out because some of it at least is a hell of a lot better than the stuff that's out in the USA and I think people would like some of it if they gave it a chance.
Now I think about it, I'm against the idea because I don't think it'll achieve anything good. I think it'll have a negative effect in creating unnecessary segregation. Music is music... as long as it's not in a different language or something then why should we separate it? Why should the amazing Lene Marlin or Delta Goodrem albums be put into another forum where most of the board won't bother to read about them, except those who already have an interest in them anyway!
You know we don't have to create a new forum for each and every possible type and sub-type of music... unless the traffic is going to be great enough to warrant that or unless those types of posts are detracting from other forums (eg, if we had half of music news filled with country topics).
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allow that
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Post by allow that on Oct 8, 2003 22:47:11 GMT -5
Why should the amazing Lene Marlin or Delta Goodrem albums be put into another forum where most of the board won't bother to read about them, except those who already have an interest in them anyway! To be honest, I don't think people who aren't interested in them will read them anywhere. That's why I think the international forum would help, because there AREN'T many international topics now, and by having its own forum, I think we'll see many more than we have now. Also, the front page turnover will be slower than Music News, which means a topic could still be on the front page after a few days and generate some new posts it otherwise would not receive. We hardly had any topics about Dance songs at R&R, but with the addition of that forum here we now have quite a few!
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Post by allow that on Oct 8, 2003 22:48:56 GMT -5
For example, I'd rather have the release of "Ka-Ching!" in Europe discussed in a general Shania Twain discussion thread than in a new topic in an international music forum. That's the kind of thing that you could still discuss in a general Shania topic regardless if it's being released internationally. Having an International Forum would make no difference regarding that particular case or a similar one.
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Sean
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Post by Sean on Oct 8, 2003 22:58:35 GMT -5
To be honest, I don't think people who aren't interested in them will read them anywhere. That's why I think the international forum would help, because there AREN'T many international topics now, and by having its own forum, I think we'll see many more than we have now. We hardly had any topics about Dance songs at R&R, but with the addition of that forum here we now have quite a few! it's a bit like what came first, the chicken or the egg!? I don't think the dance forum is really that busy, whenever I go there there are like 2 new posts every few hours. Plus, dance is a genre of music like pop, R&B etc.... international isn't. I don't know.. it depends which way you look at it. You might see it as a positive in making it important enough to have it's own forum... I see that as a negative because it just segregates it and points out it's differences and makes it seem unimportant IMO. If I want people to check out this great new Aussie or European artist I want them to check them out because they're GOOD, not because they're international and fit with that persons interests in 'international' music. Unless the international forum is really popular, I'm likely to continue posting in the music news forum simply because that's where I feel it fits best (just like news about Monica's or Missy's albums fits in general news not just the urban forum).
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j
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Post by j on Oct 8, 2003 23:36:01 GMT -5
That's the kind of thing that you could still discuss in a general Shania topic regardless if it's being released internationally. Having an International Forum would make no difference regarding that particular case or a similar one. You're missing my point. I said there'll be overlapping, which I'm sure we want to avoid. After all, I see repeated topics being locked all the time, so if something like that's already discussed in a general Shania thread, why should it be repeated elsewhere? If it is, then it should be locked. I see what Sean is getting at, and I agree. When I'm extremely bored, I might just click on the Amanda Latona thread even though I might not post in it. If you have it segregated in its own forum, I'd never ever ever look at it. So to sum up: Segregation bad, unification good! There's one exception of course. When one forum is moving too fast and topics are dropping off the first page too quickly, then you might want to subcategorize it so that topics won't disappear so quickly. Otherwise, there's really no point in separating them. It's why I was strongly pro-merging AC, Hot AC & AAA all in the same forum. Saves me some time from clicking on just 1 forum instead of 2.
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prenatt1166
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Post by prenatt1166 on Oct 8, 2003 23:42:30 GMT -5
:)
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allow that
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Post by allow that on Oct 8, 2003 23:47:57 GMT -5
You're missing my point. I said there'll be overlapping, which I'm sure we want to avoid. After all, I see repeated topics being locked all the time, so if something like that's already discussed in a general Shania thread, why should it be repeated elsewhere? If it is, then it should be locked. But I really don't think the general purpose of an International Forum would be to disucuss Shania Twain, Britney Spears, Coldplay, or other acts that yes, have success all over the world, but also in North America. It's meant to introduce us to a whole slew of new artists that won't be released in North America at all. For example, I'll be in Italy the first half of next year. I'm sure I'll be hearing great songs that I wouldn't have heard if I was still in the USA. I'd like to share some of those songs whenever I get a chance to log on to the boards, but I mean as of right now I'm not going to start a topic about a song in Music News, because it really doesn't belong there. It's one thing if you have an artist like Delta Goodrem who's taking Australia by storm right now, yes that IS music news. But a casual hit somewhere in Europe by a one-hit wonder that a member thinks the others would like to know about... well would they actually create that topic as of now? With members everywhere from Norway to Brazil to the United Arab Emirates, I feel like we're missing out on stuff that we really don't have to.
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Sean
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Post by Sean on Oct 8, 2003 23:49:07 GMT -5
You're missing my point. I said there'll be overlapping, which I'm sure we want to avoid. After all, I see repeated topics being locked all the time, so if something like that's already discussed in a general Shania thread, why should it be repeated elsewhere? If it is, then it should be locked. I see what Sean is getting at, and I agree. When I'm extremely bored, I might just click on the Amanda Latona thread even though I might not post in it. If you have it segregated in its own forum, I'd never ever ever look at it. So to sum up: Segregation bad, unification good! There's one exception of course. When one forum is moving too fast and topics are dropping off the first page too quickly, then you might want to subcategorize it so that topics won't disappear so quickly. Otherwise, there's really no point in separating them. It's why I was strongly pro-merging AC, Hot AC & AAA all in the same forum. Saves me some time from clicking on just 1 forum instead of 2. Agreed. But it's not like there are international topics clogging anything up at the moment so it's not a problem that needs to be fixed (I hate this phrase but... if it ain't broke, don't fix it). Also agreed on the Amanda Latona topic thingy... I find myself doing that too sometimes and Amanda Latona is a perfect example of this. I clicked on it simply because it was there and ended up getting a song I loved out of it, if the topic was elsewhere I would've missed out (not that she's international but just the concept I'm talking about). I know I'd rather have most of what I'm interested in one forum rather than segregated out into different categories.
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Post by Sean on Oct 8, 2003 23:56:06 GMT -5
With members everywhere from Norway to Brazil to the United Arab Emirates, I feel like we're missing out on stuff that we really don't have to. I disagree with that. You're not missing out as people like myself, Mineable, Mandyfan, atomicaloud and some American posters are creating topics about international artists for EVERYBODY to check out anyway and they're not out of place or ignored as they are. If they're all in another forum then they will either be ignored by the majority of posters or you'll see topics about every international artist just because we can. As it is now, most of the international artists discussed in music news are artists that are of quality and worthy of being in with the Jewel, Mariah's etc (Ok except maybe some of Mineable's!). If you hear songs in Italy that are good then post them in music news, you don't need a separate forum for that. If they're good songs, they're good songs. I find it quite annoying that I'd have to post about Delta Goodrem in another forum when her music is much better than most artists being discussed in music news and when she's having as much success sales wise as many American artists, even when you factor in lower sales in other markets.
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Post by j on Oct 9, 2003 0:04:02 GMT -5
But I really don't think the general purpose of an International Forum would be to disucuss Shania Twain, Britney Spears, Coldplay, or other acts that yes, have success all over the world, but also in North America. Well it was point #2 in the four-item list in your first post above... Ultimately, no one would bother clicking on a slow-moving forum. If we wanted to share new discoveries, we've had the occassional "MP3 download suggestions" thread, and that'll do just fine. We don't need a whole forum with a topic dedicated to each and every "international" song that very few people have heard of, and that only FreakyFlyBry would download just so that he can post "I've heard it, and I like it." to make X+1>X.
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Post by Edf85 on Oct 9, 2003 0:04:50 GMT -5
I think this would be a great idea because there's already enough topics that are done already that could contribute to it (UK, Canada, Spain, etc...)
It would also be fun to see other charts people from other countrys could post, and compare them with the US.
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Post by Sean on Oct 9, 2003 0:16:49 GMT -5
I think this would be a great idea because there's already enough topics that are done already that could contribute to it (UK, Canada, Spain, etc...) It would also be fun to see other charts people from other countrys could post, and compare them with the US. Erm, people already do post the UK and Australian charts every Monday. Also, other charts and international charts, events and artists already get regularly discussed.
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Post by allow that on Oct 9, 2003 0:47:46 GMT -5
Erm, people already do post the UK and Australian charts every Monday. Also, other charts and international charts, events and artists already get regularly discussed. That's kind of the point. And it tells us that the interest is there, so thanks for bringing up that point. Hence, the new forum would allowe us to be organized and have it all in one place for easy reference.
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Post by Sean on Oct 9, 2003 1:12:30 GMT -5
That's kind of the point. And it tells us that the interest is there, so thanks for bringing up that point. Hence, the new forum would allowe us to be organized and have it all in one place for easy reference. You take it as a reason to put it in another forum... I see it is reason to keep it where it is! Again, why insist on segregating something when it's not necessary or causing problems? This isn't the R&R boards anymore so it's not just focused on American artists and charts, and even at R&R it still was fine as it is now. This board is already US-centric (as is the music industry in general, and my CD collection too I guess, I'm not saying that's wrong) but this idea just makes that even worse... it's not a positive, it just cements and perpetuates the idea that US radio and public are not open to anything they see as foreign, and puts it in a box with a label on it.
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Post by allow that on Oct 9, 2003 1:17:39 GMT -5
Sean, for the last time (I hope) this isn't meant as an insult, it's meant as a compliment. Let's try to stay out of this thread for now, to let some other people state their opinions as well.
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Post by Radical347 on Oct 9, 2003 1:18:55 GMT -5
I think it's a bad idea. Whoever said there would be a huge amount of overlap is right on. In the case of Delta Goodrem taking Australia by storm, how would someone know whether to post it in Music News or International? I think it would actually cut down on the total # of posts, because some people post international songs in Music News, which is the way it should be, and then people in Music News get exposure to those songs. Whereas if there were a separate forum, people wouldn't even bother clicking on it. (I feel like I'm repeating what everyone else on this side has said, but I want to get it across in a way that you can't twist it around and say that these are exact reasons why there should be an international forum.) If you really want another forum, maybe "foreign language songs," but there's a freaking huge amount of overlap on the US/UK/Australia/etc charts (hell, there's even a big overlap of all of those on the Japan chart) and creating a new forum for "international" music is just going to cause more confusion. If a song is a hit in Australia and then like a week later gets released to the US, who will know what forum to post it in? Quite frankly I think the idea is as ridiculous as making separate forums called "CHR/POP #1-25" and "CHR/POP #26-50."
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Post by Sean on Oct 9, 2003 1:22:06 GMT -5
OK! I've said enough already I think. I know that you view it as a compliment but I see it as a negative thing (not really an insult, I'm not that dramatic!). I'd like to see what other 'international' people will think of it.... the more I think about it the more I hate the idea (I thought it was kinda good at first).
Right on Radical.... that's exactly where I'm coming from.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2003 5:13:47 GMT -5
I think it's a bad idea. Whoever said there would be a huge amount of overlap is right on. In the case of Delta Goodrem taking Australia by storm, how would someone know whether to post it in Music News or International? I think it would actually cut down on the total # of posts, because some people post international songs in Music News, which is the way it should be, and then people in Music News get exposure to those songs. Whereas if there were a separate forum, people wouldn't even bother clicking on it. (I feel like I'm repeating what everyone else on this side has said, but I want to get it across in a way that you can't twist it around and say that these are exact reasons why there should be an international forum.) If you really want another forum, maybe "foreign language songs," but there's a freaking huge amount of overlap on the US/UK/Australia/etc charts (hell, there's even a big overlap of all of those on the Japan chart) and creating a new forum for "international" music is just going to cause more confusion. If a song is a hit in Australia and then like a week later gets released to the US, who will know what forum to post it in? Quite frankly I think the idea is as ridiculous as making separate forums called "CHR/POP #1-25" and "CHR/POP #26-50." I completely agree. I am completely against this idea. I think it's possibly the stupidest idea to come along yet.
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Post by Leafstorm on Oct 9, 2003 7:45:23 GMT -5
120% supporting an International Forum!
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Oct 9, 2003 8:50:52 GMT -5
I fear you'll just get the same 10 posters posting in that forum and nobody else will visit it. At least now the international stuff is in with everything else so people have a chance of seeing it. That was my reasoning. I know if the forum is created, I probably won't go to it on a regular basis and I'll probably miss something as a result. It'll have more of a "seperation" effect than getting new people interested.
If the purpose of making the forum is to "organize" forums and keep songs that aren't released in North America in a seperate forum then it kinda makes sense, but it seems to me the purpose is to keep songs not released in North America "out of the way" thus making it sort of a "cleaning" process. It's probably a good idea for the people that live in Australia and the UK and such to discuss amongst themselves but that's probably what it will end up being as very few people from N.America may go there, thus the music they want heard and known won't be heard and known to anyone other than themselves.
I also don't like the idea of having this board based around American charts. I know it does since most of the forums are based around R&R formats. I think, however, if someone has a Top 20 Country songs in Australia right now, it should be posted in the Country forum, the same way the Top 40 Canadian Pop songs are posted in the CHR/Pop forum. So despite the fact the forum descriptions make special mention to R&R, I don't think they are or should be "specifically" for R&R or American charts. If you're going to make a new forum, you should make one for Sales Charts like album and single sales charts. That way, Rayo De Luzo and others can post charts from around the world in that forum but the other format forums would be restricted to airplay or whatever.
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allow that
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Post by allow that on Oct 9, 2003 9:27:55 GMT -5
That was my reasoning. I know if the forum is created, I probably won't go to it on a regular basis and I'll probably miss something as a result. It'll have more of a "seperation" effect than getting new people interested.
If the purpose of making the forum is to "organize" forums and keep songs that aren't released in North America in a seperate forum then it kinda makes sense, but it seems to me the purpose is to keep songs not released in North America "out of the way" thus making it sort of a "cleaning" process. People, if you don't like the idea that's fine, but it's really getting annoying to hear it referred to as a "cleaning process" or something else along those lines. When asked about it that was its purpose, I answered No repeatedly. I'm beginning to wonder if some people can read. The idea is NOT "to get those posts out of the way." It is to ENCOURAGE more of them to be made. So if you don't like the idea, that's fine. But if your reasoning is because you think it's a "cleaning process" then I think you have the wrong concept of what it's all about. It's probably a good idea for the people that live in Australia and the UK and such to discuss amongst themselves
That WOULD be segregation and is definitely not the point of creating such a forum. Why would only people from Australia and UK go there? I can think of 10 American/Canadian members who would liekly go there often just off the top of my head.
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Post by codenut on Oct 9, 2003 10:01:58 GMT -5
The idea for an international forum is idiotic to say the least.
We have some people on these boards from Europe & Australia who think that our music in America & Canada is international. And the same can be said for Americans about Europe's music.
So really............the problem you face with an international forum is the definition of "international". Because it means different things depending on where you live.
Music News is just fine...............
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Post by Matt4319 on Oct 9, 2003 10:50:14 GMT -5
Guys, you can disagree with the idea, but there's no need to call it "stupid" or "idiotic". For the record, I was a bit wary of the idea myself, but I let Adam create the topic to see what everyone thought.
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Post by Keith3000 on Oct 9, 2003 13:17:55 GMT -5
Adam, first let me say that I'm pleased with your enthusiasm regarding this international forum idea, and I'm kinda surprised so many people think it's a s**tty idea. Come on, you guys, the idea really doesn't suck!
I've lived outside the US for the past six years and have been introduced to many musical acts I would never have heard of had I stayed in the States. (Guys, don't get the wrong idea here; I'm not trying to convince you to go abroad, but Adam, a semester in Italy does sounds pretty cool!) However, my main musical influence is still American bands by far.
I agree that creating an international forum would increase people's awareness of international music. In fact, I'm quite surprised by the number of existing posts here regarding international music; I'm sure it's more than was present at R&R. This shows that an interest in global sounds is there. The Music News forum could still contain international topics of a "news" nature, but certain topics like artist discussions, opinions, etc would not really be suitable for Music News and I feel these would do fine in an international forum. Someone said something about "only a few people would post there"...well, I don't know if that's really true; from what I've gathered so far, many Pulse members seem knowledgeable on global music, not just members from the US.
I voted in favor of the international forum, but as many seem totally against this idea, I feel Matt's gonna scrap the idea. I'm thinking we should just do a trial, maybe for a week or two; y'know, to see how it goes. If it gets enough hits or posts (Matt, can the hits of a specific forum be measured?) then we can consider it a success and keep it. I sincerely doubt only the same 4 or 5 posters will contribute, but if that's the case I don't see what the problem is. Just as long as they don't intentionally neglect the other forums or the other members, I don't think it's a big deal. I'm sure I will post there from time to time, but of course not as much as at the other forums.
Oh, and one more thing; someone said something about the definition of the word "international". Well, this is a forum from the States. Most of the posters are from the States, and the topic of discussion relates to music in the US, as far as artists, charts, and songs are concerned. Everyone is naturally welcome to contribute to the discussions, but those who live outside the US have to accept that they are the minority and be ready to consider that what is hot in their country may be considered "international" by Americans. I think all our international posters are fine about this, so I don't see any problem on this front.
So, I say just give the idea a shot. If no one buys into it, then yeah, ditch it. But don't refuse to consider the international music forum idea...I definitely see some potential there.
S**t I need a break from this keyboard...later guys!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2003 13:34:37 GMT -5
I'd like the idea under certain circumstances. If the forum is used to post "CHARTS", then that's a good idea. However, if a dance song is being released in the UK, I want to post it in the "Dance" forum, not the "International" forum. That makes it seem less important.
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