allow that
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Post by allow that on Oct 10, 2003 17:07:52 GMT -5
Can we re-evaluate the situation?
Why exactly, do we want an International Forum? What is it about the addition of this forum that you think would benefit the boards and the members? (this question is for the pro-international peeps)
Some good things I think would arise of it: Overall, I think more topics about acts unknown in USA & Canada will be created. Yeah, I know if I really wanted to I could create one in Music news. But, trafiic is heavy there and things bump off the first page before many even see them... while they'd likely stick around longer in the new forum. I think having an international forum there would give the incentive to make more topics like that. Look at how many Dance songs are being talked about now, compared to R&R when there was no dance forum. I totally want to be introduced to new bands and artists from Europe, Latin America, etc. Also, I think it would be fun to chart watch the charts from other countries.... kind of like how we talk about the Pop chart in making each week.... it would be fun to have a place to do the same with UK Midweeks, etc. I really think it's worth a TRY. Voting is really close so it wouldn't be fair at this point to completely go one way or another. A trial run would give us all an idea of what it would be like... and maybe both sides would have a better idea as to whether they'd like it or not if they actually saw it in progress for a little. Really, that's the only COMPROMISE I can think of at this point.
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strong4PMB!
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Post by strong4PMB! on Oct 10, 2003 20:46:01 GMT -5
I vote yay.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Oct 10, 2003 21:31:19 GMT -5
I can't help but think now that Jersey Boy had a good explanation there and it certainly upped the idea a bit more for me. But why not post the songs in the format topics or 'Your Opinion Please'? I personally don't think the format topics should be limited to only chart discussions but opinions too. And who here doesn't ever go to page 2 if they haven't been here for a while to see what topics they might have missed? I always do is page 1 is full of topics with new replies.
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strong4PMB!
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Post by strong4PMB! on Oct 10, 2003 22:32:04 GMT -5
A Global Forum would be a good place to talk about J-RnB.
I still think there should be a Latin forum. It's the only chart without a forum.
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Post by BFMR on Oct 10, 2003 23:03:32 GMT -5
Can we re-evaluate the situation?
Why exactly, do we want an International Forum? What is it about the addition of this forum that you think would benefit the boards and the members? (this question is for the pro-international peeps)
for my answer to that, please refer to my answer to Josh's post on page 3.... thank you
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Post by BFMR on Oct 10, 2003 23:04:03 GMT -5
A Global Forum would be a good place to talk about J-RnB. about who??????
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mst3k
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Post by mst3k on Oct 10, 2003 23:45:15 GMT -5
Japanese Rhythm & Blues? ???
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Sean
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Post by Sean on Oct 11, 2003 1:41:18 GMT -5
To the person that asked for us to state again why/why not we want/don't want it... I've already gone on about it enough and said the reasons why I don't want it in previous posts. But I have a few more...
Another reason is because it is a very US-centric way of looking at things. Yeah, why don't we rename the music news forum to North American music news, same with Your Opinon Please! By splitting things up, you're asking me to separate the way I think about music as a whole in my head. Maybe you guys are different since you're not international but coming from someone who is, the idea seems ridiculous. It's just further splitting the way I think about things... first and foremost I think about music being music, good and bad. I don't go around thinking about things as being from here or from there.
To encourage this segregation in my mind and others just seems pointless.... music is music. It's just like separating the chart into top 25 and 25-50 etc, sounds silly but that's the way I look at things. It seems the people who actually have an interest in international music to begin with are the ones who have voted NO here and feel strongly about it.
I don't understand why we need to change... things as they currently are are not causing any problems. Yes, we should always be open to change and improvements but this is not the instance for it otherwise you'd be seeing a lot more people voting for it (and let it be said again that there should be 2 extra votes for NO because myself and Mineable voted wrong). Changing things just for changes sake is a waste of time and it really really REALLY annoys me that I could soon be told to post about some of my favourite artists in another forum where they apparently now belong.
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allow that
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Post by allow that on Oct 11, 2003 4:51:29 GMT -5
Maybe you guys are different since you're not international but coming from someone who is, the idea seems ridiculous. Well, Keith3000 is international and he seemed to have said the exact opposite.
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Keith3000
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Post by Keith3000 on Oct 11, 2003 8:22:05 GMT -5
Sean, I am definitely a fan of global music, but I agree that it is necessary to draw a distinction between musical acts that all members at these boards have heard of and acts that do not make it in this country. I mean, that makes perfect sense and the idea of segregation on the basis of discrimination on racial terms is just not there.
Y'know, it's kind of funny how some posters are just ignoring what others are trying to say. No offense when I say this.
I've already given my opinion and I'm sure I don't need to repeat myself. I've looked at both points of view, and I'm obviously in favor of Adam's idea, but am ready to ditch it if all you other guys are so not into it. I've already written a long explanation as to why I'm for this global fourm thing, but if some guys just don't want to accept this, like I said, it's fine by me.
I'm perfectly aware of the reasons for not having this new forum, and, yes, you people do have a point. Everyone is free to express his or her own opinion, but seriously guys, listen to what everyone has to say, and don't be so close-minded.
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Radical347
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Post by Radical347 on Oct 11, 2003 13:08:54 GMT -5
Sean, I am definitely a fan of global music, but I agree that it is necessary to draw a distinction between musical acts that all members at these boards have heard of and acts that do not make it in this country. Then how about also making a forum for bands that don't make it in the US or any other country period. Where are you going to draw the line. Music news works just fine. I can't find the post now, but in an earlier topic you cited bands/artists such as Robbie Williams and Coldplay as reasons why we should have an international forum... I say if those are considered 'international' then that's reason enough not to have an international forum. I like so-called 'international' music, and I have an open mind but that still doesn't mean that I'll support ideas that I think are bad. If there was just a form for 'non-US charts,' and not an entire 'international music forum,' I'd go for that.
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strong4PMB!
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Post by strong4PMB! on Oct 11, 2003 16:05:55 GMT -5
Japanese Rhythm & Blues? ??? Correct.
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Post by BFMR on Oct 11, 2003 23:13:33 GMT -5
it seems some people are stuck in this little thing called "my way or the highway" like can somebody please give it a bloody chance before trashing it?????
let me make some points...
1. If somebody like Mike wants to start a topic about Martina Sorbara... he gives out all detailed info and hopes that people will read... comes back less then an hour later, his topic has had 5 views, no replies and is on page 2... let's face it, barely anybody goes past page one....
2. Some topics... like Jewel and Mariah always seem to be on the first page... excuse me here.. but if memory serves... Mariah had TWO 1000+ replies topics on R&R... there can't be that much info left people!!!! as for Jewel, well she's not as popular or nothing, but these topics always bump down the others...
you know, if this irritates people that i'm still for it.... all i have to say is... TOO FRIGGIN' BAD... YOU ASKED FOR IT! you obviously are too close minded to TRY[/u] it before trashing it... prima donnas...
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allow that
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Post by allow that on Oct 11, 2003 23:21:19 GMT -5
it seems some people are stuck in this little thing called "my way or the highway" like can somebody please give it a bloody chance before trashing it????? ::Applause:: Why is that the people in favor of this forum are willing to try to meet the others halfway, and give in a little? Yet, the people against it won't even be considerate enough to try to give in maybe even the smallest bit? Is this really being the kind of open-minded people so many here claim to be? The anti-forum people are so "I don't like that idea, end of story."
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allow that
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Post by allow that on Oct 11, 2003 23:25:37 GMT -5
let it be said again that there should be 2 extra votes for NO because myself and Mineable voted wrong Unfortunately, there's no way to track who voted what in any poll, so that's irrelevant. Anyone could say they voted wrong.... so how would we really know? Sorry, we have to go by actual votes (in this and every poll topic).
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Radical347
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Post by Radical347 on Oct 12, 2003 1:17:49 GMT -5
Unfortunately, there's no way to track who voted what in any poll, so that's irrelevant. Anyone could say they voted wrong.... so how would we really know? Sorry, we have to go by actual votes (in this and every poll topic). Lol... and now the people in favor of this forum are trying to twist what people really think to be in their favor. I doubt anyone would vote "No" and then say "I voted Yes but meant No" just to try to skew the results. I don't think anyone feels that passionately on this. Why is that the people in favor of this forum are willing to try to meet the others halfway, and give in a little? Yet, the people against it won't even be considerate enough to try to give in maybe even the smallest bit? Is this really being the kind of open-minded people so many here claim to be? The anti-forum people are so "I don't like that idea, end of story." Two things: 1) There is no international format right now, so by not creating one, you are not "giving in" to us at all. 2) There's a difference between not being open minded and calling a bad idea when we see one. Though I probably wouldn't look at it much, I would be for making a forum for international charts. That would make things more organized. But I am not for making a forum for 'international' music. That would make things more disorganized.
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strong4PMB!
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Post by strong4PMB! on Oct 12, 2003 1:23:58 GMT -5
I want a Latin forum so I can talk about all the songs I hear on "Ojos Latinos!" :'(
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Keith3000
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Post by Keith3000 on Oct 12, 2003 5:47:19 GMT -5
So Sean and Mineable voted wrongly, eh? Lol, this is becoming like the Florida voting. If we end up having the International Forum, guys will be like, "The is like Bush being elected...we demand a recount!" I made this suggestion, earlier, about an Afganistan Forum and a Jewish forum; I bet all you guys are against that too, huh? Fine.
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Sean
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Post by Sean on Oct 12, 2003 8:58:58 GMT -5
Jersey Boy... now you've just pissed me off and insulted me. If you're going to be like that then that's fine but I think that crosses a line. That's as good as calling me a liar and frankly that sucks. I'm not *that* petty as to go around saying crap like that and I'm just going by what Mineable personally told me.... if you don't want to believe me then that's fine but if you're going to open a topic and ask for peoples opinions then listen to them at least. >:(
And I'm not being my way or the highway.... frankly do whatever the heck you want to do, it's not going to have a huge impact on my life in the end! It's obvious that support for this idea is not exactly high to justify the change but if you still feel you want to go that way I won't say anything more about it.
Radical said he would support a non-US charts forum but would like to leave everything else as is. I actually agree that that idea sounds OK. I am opposed to having an 'international forum' just like that but if there's one forum just dedicated to international charts, it could work.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2003 9:02:36 GMT -5
Radical said he would support a non-US charts forum but would like to leave everything else as is. I actually agree that that idea sounds OK. I am opposed to having an 'international forum' just like that but if there's one forum just dedicated to international charts, it could work. Yes. That's what I'm for. If you want to post the UK, Aussie, and World Charts there, that's fine... but I am opposed to keeping all non-US artists in that forum only.
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Keith3000
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Post by Keith3000 on Oct 12, 2003 9:09:37 GMT -5
Yes. That's what I'm for. If you want to post the UK, Aussie, and World Charts there, that's fine... but I am opposed to keeping all non-US artists in that forum only. Good, I think we've come up with a compromise here. Let's just make a Global Chart Forum. People can post charts from countries other than the US, and posters can discuss things related to these charts. How about some peace now, guys.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2003 9:11:31 GMT -5
Good, I think we've come up with a compromise here. It's funny that you say that now because I've repeated myself about 10 times.
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Keith3000
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Post by Keith3000 on Oct 12, 2003 9:19:25 GMT -5
It's funny that you say that now because I've repeated myself about 10 times. Josh, dude, I realize that. It's just that I'm kind of tired of going on with this discussion, when it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Let's see what Adam, Matt, and Tony think about the idea...
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allow that
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Post by allow that on Oct 12, 2003 11:37:11 GMT -5
Jersey Boy... now you've just pissed me off and insulted me. If you're going to be like that then that's fine but I think that crosses a line. if you don't want to believe me then that's fine but if you're going to open a topic and ask for peoples opinions then listen to them at least. Excuse me? There is NO way for Matt to track down who voted for what. Period. Not in this poll. Not in any poll. I'm accussed of making that up now? Don't even go there. Really, don't even go there. I'm pissed and insulted that people would suggest I said that for my own reasons. 2 votes wouldn't really make a difference anyway, because there would still be a significant split so... I don't really know exactly what you're trying to say. And Sean, I'm not saying you're lying but you haven't had a single possitive word about the idea from the beginning, so why should we think you voted anything other than no? But don't even answer that, because regardless... THERE IS NO WAY TO FIND OUT. And about the second part you quoted, you are perhaps the one person who replied in here more than me... and I've read each and every one of your posts in its entirety. So what exactly do you mean by "listen to you"? ??? Conform to your opinions? I'd also like to draw attention to a topic started by Atomicaloud last night, called "Javine - Surrender" that fell off the front page with a mere 8 views. I think this disproves the thories about "people will read it when they're bored." And, it would still be on page 1 in the other proposed forum most likely... since even the second most popular forum, "Your Opinion Please?" has a much smaller turn over than Music News.
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allow that
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Post by allow that on Oct 12, 2003 11:46:21 GMT -5
Let's just make a Global Chart Forum. People can post charts from countries other than the US, and posters can discuss things related to these charts. If that's what people want, fine by me.
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Matt4319
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Post by Matt4319 on Oct 12, 2003 18:38:12 GMT -5
Okay, is there any real opposition to an idea for an "International Chart Forum", which would cover charts from countries outside the United States, but not necessarily opinion topics about international music? If not, speak now or forever hold your peace, because that's what I'm leaning toward doing on Monday. Should it be called "International", "Global", "Non-US", what? And would anyone object to it being placed in the "Music Forums" category, alongside Music News, Personal Charts, Your Opinion, and Nostalgia? I'm also probably gonna go ahead and make a Latin forum as well (if only to get geoguy to take down his banner )... there doesn't seem to be much opposition to it.
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Matt4319
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Post by Matt4319 on Oct 12, 2003 19:12:30 GMT -5
Also -- this thread is way too long to search for the particular part where this is discussed, but please try not to vote on an option before you have had a chance to fully consider all the options. Despite being administrator, I cannot see who voted for which option, only the total amount of votes for each one. So all I have to go on are the results displayed on the top of the page.
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j
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Post by j on Oct 12, 2003 20:26:31 GMT -5
2. Some topics... like Jewel and Mariah always seem to be on the first page... excuse me here.. but if memory serves... Mariah had TWO 1000+ replies topics on R&R... there can't be that much info left people!!!! as for Jewel, well she's not as popular or nothing, but these topics always bump down the others... What has that got to do with anything? I can't believe anyone is pissed at huge Mariah / Jewel topics. Would you rather see 100 small Mariah / Jewel topics? Urgh.
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Sean
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Post by Sean on Oct 13, 2003 2:43:51 GMT -5
Jersey Boy... I wasn't accusing you of making up that you can't track votes. I just think it's not right for you to tell me that the comment I made about mine and Mineable's votes being wrong were "irrelevant" and "sorry, we have to go by actual votes". First of all, it's not that big a deal... second if I say something I don't expect to be told it's "irrelevant" and it to be 2nd guessed and suggested I am lying!!! Geez if I was that interested in skewing results that I'd go lie about myself and someone else voting wrong I'd just create 10 new accounts and vote no! Then in your reply you basically acuse me of lying again!! Now I'm not pissed, I just think that's quite funny actually. I mean seriously Matt... no objections here. Global or international are both fine and where you suggest it's placed is fine.
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Keith3000
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Post by Keith3000 on Oct 13, 2003 7:01:26 GMT -5
Okay, is there any real opposition to an idea for an "International Chart Forum", which would cover charts from countries outside the United States, but not necessarily opinion topics about international music? If not, speak now or forever hold your peace, because that's what I'm leaning toward doing on Monday. Should it be called "International", "Global", "Non-US", what? And would anyone object to it being placed in the "Music Forums" category, alongside Music News, Personal Charts, Your Opinion, and Nostalgia? I'm also probably gonna go ahead and make a Latin forum as well (if only to get geoguy to take down his banner )... there doesn't seem to be much opposition to it. I'm fine with this idea. Opinions and discussions relating to international music, but not directly concerning charts, can go in either the "Music News" or the "Your Opinion Please" forum, depending on the thread topic. Regarding the forum's name, "Global Charts Forum" sounds appropriate as the forum would feature various music charts, from UK to Australia, Canada, Japan, the World Chart etc. The "Music Forums" category is a fine place to put the new fourm; it makes more sense than putting it alongside the R&R chart forums.
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