General Chart Procedures Questions Thread/Guide

[ladymadonna]

How does BDS tracking work with regards to songs played on syndicated radio shows like Seacrest's myriad shows, Delilah, Kidd Kraddick, etc.?

Do those count as detectable spins on any monitored station that carries the program? Or are these spins discounted due to payola restrictions (I thought I remembered something about syndicated programming being an element of the Warner payola case a few years ago).

[Chromeozone]

As far as I know, those spins are tracked.

When Mediabase was still fully available to see, it was obvious when some tracks were played on Open House Party, some of the countdown shows, etc

[areyoureadytojump]

Why does everyone release their albums on tuesdays?

Jason says:

Someone already answered to an extent, but here is a longer answer. Records used to be released on Monday, but some stores wouldn't get their product delivered on Saturday and then were stuck because no mail is delivered on Sunday. It tended to be smaller stores/cities that didn't get the stock, so it helped larger stores because they had the advantage of having the new releases. The release day was thus changed to Tuesday to allow for another day of mail (stores often get product on Saturday and have to hold them until Tuesday, thus you get 'street-date violations').

[syrus]

Does anyone know if Soundscan counts CDs sold through deepdiscount.com or yourmusic.com?

[Deleted]

Anything with a barcode gets counted, including CDs from internet vendors

[spongebob]

???

[Deleted]

According to Billboard, the Tastemakers chart is a core-panel chart, driven by sales from about 300 stores, including independent coalitions and small chains that are actively involved with artist-development programs.

[Focus]

Have they taken access to the Song Analysis away from us now too? :'(
Up until yesterday I could use the chart but today I tried and the log in page came up.
Does anyone know an alternate route to get this chart?

[user3939]

I have a question... when they announce an album sold 200,000 copies this week, does it mean that it sold 200,000 physical & digital copies? And if an album is certified platinium, does it mean that it shipped 1 million physical copies only, or does it also include digital(although how can you ship digital). Thanks.

[PrinceAli89]

Alright, I have random question.

Let's say I wanted to support Mariah's new album by purchasing 10 copies of it. For those 10 to count tword Billboard, would I have to go to 10 different stores to purchase it, or could I have all 10 on one trasaction.. I've heard that if you were to put all 10 on one trasaction, it would only count as one..

[Deleted]

10 copies will cost you 120-150 dollars and 10 will be added to Mariah's total

10 is not a big enough number to be noticed by their system


However, they do weed our larger numbers so, if you wanted to buy 100 copies for instance, that might get discarded by Soundscan

[PrinceAli89]

Oct 1, 2009 12:14:44 GMT -5 @2m said:

10 copies will cost you 120-150 dollars and 10 will be added to Mariah's total

10 is not a big enough number to be noticed by their system


However, they do weed our larger numbers so, if you wanted to buy 100 copies for instance, that might get discarded by Soundscan

Ehh, confused..

Soo, it would count tword Mariah's sales? and in order for it to count, would I have to buy them all seperatly or together on one recipet?

[bibliotheque]

I know that when st.ans buy multiple copies of an album they ask for each album to be ringed seperately so they all go through as seperate transactions. That way they all definately count.

[PrinceAli89]

Oct 1, 2009 16:09:31 GMT -5 bibliotheque said:

I know that when st.ans buy multiple copies of an album they ask for each album to be ringed seperately so they all go through as seperate transactions. That way they all definately count.

Ohh, okay, thank you, that answers my question. :)

Lol, do you know someone who has actually done that?

[Deleted]

SOMETHING OLD, SOMETHING NEW

Hi Gary,

My question is in regard to album re-releases. We have seen that a fair number of albums, hugely successful or not, get re-released in some way or another. What is the new-song limit that Billboard has when counting an album as a re-release or not?

I remember Rihanna's album "Good Girl Gone Bad" was 're-loaded' with three new tracks last year, but the chart life of the album was combined with its first version. Will the Nov. 23 re-release of Lady Gaga's debut collection, re-entitled "The Fame Monster," be considered a re-release or a new album? It will contain not three or four new songs, but eight, which is even more than those on a standard EP or Taylor Swift's "Platinum Edition" of "Fearless," which contains six new songs.

Thank you,

Juan Croussett
Tampa, Florida


Hi Juan,

For the clearest explanation as to how Billboard will chart the releases you mention, I asked Billboard 200 chart manager Keith Caulfield. Here is his response:

"Billboard has many guidelines about the merging of so-called special edition albums with their original parent albums. Generally speaking, two or more versions of an album will not be merged if the title of the special edition version is substantially different from the original. For Lady Gaga's 'The Fame' and 'The Fame Monster,' we feel that the change was in line with what we've allowed in the past (a la Rihanna's 'Good Girl Gone Bad' and 'Good Girl Gone Bad Reloaded').

"Additionally, for our chart purposes, there is no limit as to how many audio tracks or songs can be added to an original album, as long as the additional audio content does not extend beyond one additional CD (or digital equivalent) and the content of the standard edition remains intact.

"Thus, the reissue of Lady Gaga's 'The Fame' in a deluxe version ('The Fame Monster') with additional songs will have its sales combined with the original 'Fame' album. The same goes for the 'Platinum Edition' of Taylor Swift's 'Fearless'."

[ƒony (Les taches faibles™)]

Oct 30, 2009 22:41:41 GMT -5 @2m said:

SOMETHING OLD, SOMETHING NEW

Hi Gary,

My question is in regard to album re-releases. We have seen that a fair number of albums, hugely successful or not, get re-released in some way or another. What is the new-song limit that Billboard has when counting an album as a re-release or not?

I remember Rihanna's album "Good Girl Gone Bad" was 're-loaded' with three new tracks last year, but the chart life of the album was combined with its first version. Will the Nov. 23 re-release of Lady Gaga's debut collection, re-entitled "The Fame Monster," be considered a re-release or a new album? It will contain not three or four new songs, but eight, which is even more than those on a standard EP or Taylor Swift's "Platinum Edition" of "Fearless," which contains six new songs.

Thank you,

Juan Croussett
Tampa, Florida


Hi Juan,

For the clearest explanation as to how Billboard will chart the releases you mention, I asked Billboard 200 chart manager Keith Caulfield. Here is his response:

"Billboard has many guidelines about the merging of so-called special edition albums with their original parent albums. Generally speaking, two or more versions of an album will not be merged if the title of the special edition version is substantially different from the original. For Lady Gaga's 'The Fame' and 'The Fame Monster,' we feel that the change was in line with what we've allowed in the past (a la Rihanna's 'Good Girl Gone Bad' and 'Good Girl Gone Bad Reloaded').

"Additionally, for our chart purposes, there is no limit as to how many audio tracks or songs can be added to an original album, as long as the additional audio content does not extend beyond one additional CD (or digital equivalent) and the content of the standard edition remains intact.

"Thus, the reissue of Lady Gaga's 'The Fame' in a deluxe version ('The Fame Monster') with additional songs will have its sales combined with the original 'Fame' album. The same goes for the 'Platinum Edition' of Taylor Swift's 'Fearless'."

So they've changed the rules then? Mary J. Blige's re-issue of "No More Drama" charted on its own with 3 or 4 new tracks, because there was a track-limit back then.

[Deleted]

yeah that kind of surprised me too. There was a track limit them, now apparently there is a disc limit, rather than a track limit


If the new tracks equal a full length CD then it is a new album, other wise, I guess it is not

[J. Rob]

Question:

Why aren't digital downloads factored into the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart?

[wastedtime]

Aug 26, 2009 23:19:08 GMT -5 user3939 said:

I have a question... when they announce an album sold 200,000 copies this week, does it mean that it sold 200,000 physical & digital copies? And if an album is certified platinium, does it mean that it shipped 1 million physical copies only, or does it also include digital(although how can you ship digital). Thanks.

Just got confirmation from @billboarddotcom that digital albums are included in RIAA certification.

[HolidayGuy]

^That actually had been established some time ago. It makes sense for the RIAA to do that.

When Mary J. Blige's No More Drama re-release debuted, I recall that the original dropped out of sight on the charts after one or two weeks.

[areyoureadytojump]

^Yes, over 2 years ago.

[wastedtime]

Sept 27, 2010 17:09:10 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

^That actually had been established some time ago. It makes sense for the RIAA to do that.

I actually couldn't find any source to verify this anywhere (even though I agree that it made sense) when I was debating this on another site so would love a link. There was confusion with regards to The RIAA Digital Sales Awards being a separate certification for digital albums so that's why I asked Billboard.
Still not sure if the Digital Award would be in addition to the regular certification if an album eventually sells platinum digitally or if it's just for singles, videos, ringtones.

[Deleted]

A good response to a topic that has come up here many times



WELL-SPOKEN

Hello Gary,

My comments have to do with Taylor Swift.

In this era of instant and high Billboard Hot 100 debuts, Swift has broken quite a few chart records, including having the highest debuts over three consecutive weeks. She's earned such Hot 100 headlines because of total weekly downloads for her stream of newly-available titles.

Most of her high-debuting titles this year, however, have fallen sharply in their second chart weeks. Does that sound like chart dominance to you? Chart dominance, to me, is what the Beatles accomplished, and the Bee Gees, Michael Jackson, Elton John and others. Multiple songs at No. 1, along with many other titles in the top 10, most with lengthy stays.

Swift's "Speak Now" may have sold more than a million copies in one week, according to Nielsen SoundScan, but its tracks have made merely cameos on the Hot 100.

Does that really equal "popular"?

Take care,

Tom Gazdayka
Mountain View, California


Hi Tom,

Your thoughts echo those made below several stories on Billboard.com regarding Swift's Hot 100 activity, as well as the similar chart arcs made by the "Glee" cast.

What we're seeing on the Hot 100 now reflects the instantaneous world of digital downloads. For much of the Hot 100's 52-year history, the record company model was to release one single at a time and build its airplay. A song would then gradually scale the chart as both sales and radio play increased.

Since digital sales began contributing to the Hot 100 in 2005, songs clearly chart differently. It's no longer uncommon for titles to launch in the top 10 and plummet the following week. For "Speak Now" and Swift's previous album, "Fearless," the Big Machine label released preview tracks in the weeks leading up to the release of each set. Fans salivating for a taste of each collection sent those songs into the chart's upper reaches based on robust sales alone.

Thus, the key difference, as you point out, is that unlike in the Hot 100's earlier decades, it's now routine for titles to grace the upper portion of the chart without receiving significant radio exposure. Does that mean we should not consider them hits?

In my opinion, a Hot 100 hit is a Hot 100 hit.

The chart has undergone changes throughout its existence, with perhaps the most radical being the Dec. 5, 1998, change to allow non-commercial singles to appear (since labels were releasing fewer radio smashes as cassette and CD singles in hopes of boosting album sales). At that point, what had been a "singles" chart for 40 years transitioned to a "songs" chart.

That's what the Hot 100 remains 12 years later: a list of the top-selling and most-played songs in the U.S., regardless of how much each title's sales/airplay ratio accounts for its overall chart points.

So, the chart success of artists like Swift reflects how passionately fans are responding to her music. I don't think that we should discount her placing 11 songs on this week's Hot 100 (a record among female artists) just because all but radio focus track "Mine" charted based mostly on sales. Those 11 songs sold a combined 525,000 downloads last week, according to SoundScan. Under any chart methodology, that's an impressive sum.

Of course, your point is valid about acts such as the Beatles having totaled 20 No. 1s and 617 weeks on the Hot 100. Swift has tallied 39 Hot 100 hits. With several having charted based on digital spikes, her total chart weeks stand at 401. That amount trails those of three other women who have also made 39 Hot 100 visits: Janet Jackson (711), Whitney Houston (675) and Mary J. Blige (630).

Similarly, the "Glee" cast has collected 89 Hot 100 hits, the chart's third-highest total. The troupe's 114 total chart weeks, however, vastly trail Elvis Presley's 994 (108 chart entries) and James Brown's 681 (91 visits).

Ultimately, the test of artists' popularity over time is the lasting impact of their work. We'll be better able to gauge the cultural stamp of Swift's career in comparison to other star acts if songs such as "Love Story" and "Mine" remain ubiquitous for years to come.

And remember, had the digital era existed when Presley, the Beatles and all stars prior to the 2000s enjoyed their greatest success, and had the Hot 100 included album cuts in those years, big-name acts would've totaled countless more Hot 100 hits.

Changes in methodology over various eras greatly factor into any historical comparison. In sports, Roger Maris' breaking of Babe Ruth's single-season home run record in 1961 (61 to 60) remains debated, since Maris' season was 162 games long and Ruth's 60-home run season in 1927 was 154. As a journalistic entity, Billboard's role is to present the facts and analyze accordingly. Often times, gray areas arise, making chart commentary worthy of long Ask Billboard answers like these.

Such friendly arguments also make pop music history, and the charts, so much fun to follow and dissect.

[dilek85]

Guys,
I am quite new to this forum and I am really interested in knowing the methods and policies by which BH100 is obtained and compiled?

I have ready something about it on wikipedia and billboard site, but would also like to know how to use our forum to be right on track.
I know there are some subforums, for pop, rock, contemporary etc., and would like to know the difference between some charts like mediabase, etc.
Is there any description?

Thanks,
Dilek

[Lozzy]

I may or may not be fully correct, but the chart is made of these components:
• Sales. Usually just digital sales but there are occasional physical sales too such as with 'Born This Way.' 323,000 sales will equal 323 chart points.
• Airplay. All-format audience impressions as tracked by BDS are used. The airplay updates you'll see every week in the Hot 100 threads are Mediabase; but BDS is very similar, varying by usually just 10mil or less. I assume you know what audience impressions are right? And 168mil audience will be 168 chart points of course.
• Streaming. I don't think anyone knows how these are determined, but Billboard tracks streams from Yahoo and AOL and possibly YT/VEVO (I'm not sure on that one), and adds them in chart points. They don't usually make a big difference but can make a small difference such as determining LTWYL's last week at #1 last year.
All those chart points are then added together to determine the overall ranking. Using a real example, for the 8/6/11 Hot 100, 'Party Rock Anthem' is #1, and it had 209K digital sales and 143M audience as well as probably a few points from streaming, so that would be a little upwards of 352 chart points.

I hope that helps.

[HolidayGuy]

Well, technically, sales are divided by 10, so sales of 323,000 would be 32,300 chart points. And airplay is divided by 10,000- so 143 million audience would be 14,300 chart points. But taking out the zeroes makes it more user-friendly. :)

Since SoundScan started tracking sales in 1991, there have been instances in which the sales divider was a little higher (12) or lower (5, when Billboard started using digital sales for the Hot 100; then a couple of years later, after digital sales exploded, the divider was set back to 10).

This probably could be merged into that thread on chart procedures.

[Lozzy]

Jul 31, 2011 8:11:03 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

Well, technically, sales are divided by 10, so sales of 323,000 would be 32,300 chart points. And airplay is divided by 10,000- so 143 million audience would be 14,300 chart points. But taking out the zeroes makes it more user-friendly. :)

Since SoundScan started tracking sales in 1991, there have been instances in which the sales divider was a little higher (12) or lower (5, when Billboard started using digital sales for the Hot 100; then a couple of years later, after digital sales exploded, the divider was set back to 10).

This probably could be merged into that thread on chart procedures.

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Rodze]

I remember reading here Billboard saying stream plays are divided by 500.

That was an article from 2007. I don't know if they made any adjusted since then.

[dilek85]

Jul 31, 2011 5:06:45 GMT -5 Lozzy said:

I may or may not be fully correct, but the chart is made of these components:
• Sales. Usually just digital sales but there are occasional physical sales too such as with 'Born This Way.' 323,000 sales will equal 323 chart points.
• Airplay. All-format audience impressions as tracked by BDS are used. The airplay updates you'll see every week in the Hot 100 threads are Mediabase; but BDS is very similar, varying by usually just 10mil or less. I assume you know what audience impressions are right? And 168mil audience will be 168 chart points of course.
• Streaming. I don't think anyone knows how these are determined, but Billboard tracks streams from Yahoo and AOL and possibly YT/VEVO (I'm not sure on that one), and adds them in chart points. They don't usually make a big difference but can make a small difference such as determining LTWYL's last week at #1 last year.
All those chart points are then added together to determine the overall ranking. Using a real example, for the 8/6/11 Hot 100, 'Party Rock Anthem' is #1, and it had 209K digital sales and 143M audience as well as probably a few points from streaming, so that would be a little upwards of 352 chart points.

I hope that helps.

thank you so much for your answer:)
now i understand more than before;)
but still i am not sure about couple things...
so basically which forum topics containing chart should i follow to get a minor knowledge about the uncoming billboard hot 100 chart?
also, there are many formats (pop. dance, rock, r&b, hip hop, alternative, rhythmic, urban, contemporary). does every format counts while compiling b100 or they are separated into some groups?
can you please give me the examples how is this being tabulated and compiled step by step or is there any nice explanation?
is billboard top ac same with mediabase top ac?

[Deleted]

a little history

Was listening to a 1970 edition of AT40. Back then the Hot 100 was compiled based on:

100 retail sales reports and 54 playlists from "major radio stations"

They were then fed into a data processing system to generate te top 100