John77
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Post by John77 on Feb 9, 2008 12:32:48 GMT -5
It's been a long time since we had one here, and with KMVN doing so bad in the ratings since they flipped it from Country (KZLA), and since they have the guy with all of the CHR/Pop experience just wasting away there in Rick Dees, perhaps it is time for them to fill the market's only true hole and take it right in the middle of the opening CC's KBIG (AC/Hot AC) and KIIS (CHR/Rhy) have just sitting there.
Thoughts???
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Feb 9, 2008 13:09:27 GMT -5
^The California coast just doesn't seem to have mainstream CHRs...not sure it's gonna happen - seems more likely that someone might start up an "Active" Hot AC closer to L. A.
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dth1971
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Post by dth1971 on Feb 9, 2008 16:43:34 GMT -5
Why hasn't R&R moved KIIS Los Angeles (as well as Chicago WKSC KISS FM) from the Top 40/CHR panel to the RHYTHMIC panel?
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Post by threedollafoaholla on Feb 9, 2008 17:47:33 GMT -5
You already have a Top 40. You just refuse to accept that Top 40 in Los Angeles means Rhythmic-leaning. It sells, it tests, it gets ratings... game, set, match. Get over it.
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EvanJ
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Post by EvanJ on Feb 9, 2008 19:46:13 GMT -5
With KMVN's low ratings I certainly wouldn't mind if they tried balanced CHR-Pop. I live in the New York City area so it doesn't affect me, but I understand John...'s complaint.
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dth1971
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Post by dth1971 on Feb 9, 2008 22:53:08 GMT -5
What if NYC's WHTZ Z-100 went KIIS/KISS-FM rhythmic leaning?
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John77
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Post by John77 on Feb 10, 2008 11:49:44 GMT -5
You already have a Top 40. You just refuse to accept that Top 40 in Los Angeles means Rhythmic-leaning. It sells, it tests, it gets ratings... game, set, match. Get over it. lol... I take it you work for CC.  |
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John77
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Post by John77 on Feb 10, 2008 11:51:00 GMT -5
Why hasn't R&R moved KIIS Los Angeles (as well as Chicago WKSC KISS FM) from the Top 40/CHR panel to the RHYTHMIC panel? The $25,000 question... |
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Feb 10, 2008 14:22:03 GMT -5
You already have a Top 40. You just refuse to accept that Top 40 in Los Angeles means Rhythmic-leaning. It sells, it tests, it gets ratings... Wait I agree with u man that it sells and gets ratings, but it's not CHR/Top 40 IMO if its playlist nearly matches the Rhythmic chart...if Top 40 can mean different things in different markets, then Nashville could have a "Top 40" station that plays all country, or a college town could have a "Top 40" station that plays all Alternative BDS lets KIIS report to CHR (it completely leaves out rock), but it won't let WSTR report to CHR, or any panel (cause it leaves out rap)...seems like a double standard to me Personally, I don't think KIIS or WSTR should be reporting to Mediabase CHR...Top 40 in L. A. might mean rhythmic, and Top 40 in Atlanta might mean no rap, but if you're gonna disqualify a station from CHR for leavin out rap, you gotta disqualify stations that leave out rock...otherwise, you just get a skewed CHR chart |
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Feb 10, 2008 14:25:04 GMT -5
What if NYC's WHTZ Z-100 went KIIS/KISS-FM rhythmic leaning? Doubt that'd happen cause Clear Channel doesn't co-own WPLJ, so they're not purposely leaving out Hot AC songs from Z100...also, unlike L. A., NYC suburbs don't have their own CHR-leaning Hot ACs, so tons of suburban listeners (who want to hear pop/rock as well as rhythmic songs) would bail on Z100, hurtin its ratings and boosting PLJ's |
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Feb 10, 2008 14:26:12 GMT -5
Why hasn't R&R moved KIIS Los Angeles (as well as Chicago WKSC KISS FM) from the Top 40/CHR panel to the RHYTHMIC panel? IMO that's all that needs to happen...and add WKQI/Detroit to that list lol |
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John77
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Post by John77 on Feb 10, 2008 16:24:35 GMT -5
You already have a Top 40. You just refuse to accept that Top 40 in Los Angeles means Rhythmic-leaning. It sells, it tests, it gets ratings... Wait I agree with u man that it sells and gets ratings, but it's not CHR/Top 40 IMO if its playlist nearly matches the Rhythmic chart...if Top 40 can mean different things in different markets, then Nashville could have a "Top 40" station that plays all country, or a college town could have a "Top 40" station that plays all Alternative BDS lets KIIS report to CHR (it completely leaves out rock), but it won't let WSTR report to CHR, or any panel (cause it leaves out rap)...seems like a double standard to me Personally, I don't think KIIS or WSTR should be reporting to Mediabase CHR...Top 40 in L. A. might mean rhythmic, and Top 40 in Atlanta might mean no rap, but if you're gonna disqualify a station from CHR for leavin out rap, you gotta disqualify stations that leave out rock...otherwise, you just get a skewed CHR chart To further this point, NYC doesn't have a country station... so the nation's largest market doesn't have a station reporting to that panel. What's so different about L.A. not having a station reporting to the CHR/Pop panel? Regarding WSTR, it indeed is a double standard as you say. |
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Post by threedollafoaholla on Feb 11, 2008 15:57:07 GMT -5
You already have a Top 40. You just refuse to accept that Top 40 in Los Angeles means Rhythmic-leaning. It sells, it tests, it gets ratings... game, set, match. Get over it. lol... I take it you work for CC. No, actually. Not full-time, anyways. |
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John77
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Post by John77 on Feb 12, 2008 10:15:56 GMT -5
lol... I take it you work for CC. No, actually. Not full-time, anyways. OK then. lol. |
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Post by threedollafoaholla on Feb 12, 2008 14:05:47 GMT -5
No, actually. Not full-time, anyways. OK then. lol. I work about twelve hours a month for CC, but close to 200 for another radio company. |
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Minor Scratch
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Post by Minor Scratch on Feb 12, 2008 19:32:35 GMT -5
This will happen when KIIS stops competing with the Rhythmics and Hurbans.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Feb 16, 2008 15:48:35 GMT -5
Yeah actually just looked up KIIS for the first time in a while, and I'd say they ARE a very rhythmic-leaning CHR (rather than a straight out rhythmic) cause they're playin Misery Business, Stop And Stare, and When You Look Me In The Eyes
Kiss Chicago is actually worse...the only non-rhythmic song they're playin is When You Look Me In The Eyes, and same with WKQI/Detroit, except for Stop And Stare 8x a week
I guess the reason Mediabase/BDS doesn't move these stations to Rhythmic is cause the stations themselves haven't committed themselves to the rhythmic format (i. e. if Kiss/L. A. had been moved to rhythmic half a year ago (when it was completely rhythmic) it would've had to have been moved back this month...I'm guessin Kiss Chicago and WKQI aren't being moved for the same reason (a few months from now they could decide to add a few non-rhythmic songs, and Mediabase/BDS would have to move them back)
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John77
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Post by John77 on Feb 16, 2008 16:27:20 GMT -5
Yeah actually just looked up KIIS for the first time in a while, and I'd say they ARE a very rhythmic-leaning CHR (rather than a straight out rhythmic) cause they're playin Misery Business, Stop And Stare, and When You Look Me In The Eyes Kiss Chicago is actually worse...the only non-rhythmic song they're playin is When You Look Me In The Eyes, and same with WKQI/Detroit, except for Stop And Stare 8x a week I guess the reason Mediabase/BDS doesn't move these stations to Rhythmic is cause the stations themselves haven't committed themselves to the rhythmic format (i. e. if Kiss/L. A. had been moved to rhythmic half a year ago (when it was completely rhythmic) it would've had to have been moved back this month...I'm guessin Kiss Chicago and WKQI aren't being moved for the same reason (a few months from now they could decide to add a few non-rhythmic songs, and Mediabase/BDS would have to move them back) I think the only reason they're playing "Stop And Stare" is thanks to "Apologize" and it's ridiculous success. On it's own merit, it wouldn't have stood a chance of getting spun there. These days, KIIS is very "artist oriented" instead of "hit oriented." In other words, a crappy third or fourth single by Britney, Gwen or Mariah is a lot more likely to get significant airplay than a GREAT song by a new artist like Colbie Caillat or Leona Lewis. In the old days of KIIS (even 3 or 4 years ago), they were VERY interested in breaking new artists. Now, they can't smell a hit from a newbie, even when it slaps them in the face!!! |
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Mannequin™
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Post by Mannequin™ on Feb 17, 2008 15:34:24 GMT -5
Ugh, where I live, New York, we have one. 106.1 BLI... OMG they play all the same music 24/7 everytime I get in the car, for like 10 minutes even, you will ALWAYS hear Don't Stop The Music... it's pathetic.
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EvanJ
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Post by EvanJ on Feb 17, 2008 16:55:54 GMT -5
WBLI is the second biggest market CHR-Pop station to be Number 1 ages 18-49 for Fall 2007 (the biggest market one is KHKS Dallas-Fort Worth). Also that previous sentence does not include the big markets Houston-Galveston and Phildelphia that use PPM. Nassau-Suffolk is a popular market for CHR-Pop. I live in Nassau County.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Feb 18, 2008 10:57:38 GMT -5
Ugh, where I live, New York, we have one. 106.1 BLI... OMG they play all the same music 24/7 everytime I get in the car, for like 10 minutes even, you will ALWAYS hear Don't Stop The Music... it's pathetic. Yeah dance tracks are played nonstop in both NYC (Z100) and Long Island (WBLI)...I think cause NYC is basically the dance-music capital of the U. S. |
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Feb 18, 2008 11:04:45 GMT -5
Yeah actually just looked up KIIS for the first time in a while, and I'd say they ARE a very rhythmic-leaning CHR (rather than a straight out rhythmic) cause they're playin Misery Business, Stop And Stare, and When You Look Me In The Eyes Kiss Chicago is actually worse...the only non-rhythmic song they're playin is When You Look Me In The Eyes, and same with WKQI/Detroit, except for Stop And Stare 8x a week I guess the reason Mediabase/BDS doesn't move these stations to Rhythmic is cause the stations themselves haven't committed themselves to the rhythmic format (i. e. if Kiss/L. A. had been moved to rhythmic half a year ago (when it was completely rhythmic) it would've had to have been moved back this month...I'm guessin Kiss Chicago and WKQI aren't being moved for the same reason (a few months from now they could decide to add a few non-rhythmic songs, and Mediabase/BDS would have to move them back) I think the only reason they're playing "Stop And Stare" is thanks to "Apologize" and it's ridiculous success. On it's own merit, it wouldn't have stood a chance of getting spun there. These days, KIIS is very "artist oriented" instead of "hit oriented." In other words, a crappy third or fourth single by Britney, Gwen or Mariah is a lot more likely to get significant airplay than a GREAT song by a new artist like Colbie Caillat or Leona Lewis. In the old days of KIIS (even 3 or 4 years ago), they were VERY interested in breaking new artists. Now, they can't smell a hit from a newbie, even when it slaps them in the face!!! Yeah it's kinda random how KIIS is spinnin Paramore 44x a week, but all other Alt. Rock hits don't "fit" their audience... Kiss Chicago and WKQI/Detroit are even more rhythmic, but they both have big Hot AC stations that basically lean CHR...WDVD/Detroit spins its top songs 60+ times a week I think, and basically functions as a mainstream CHR...WTMX/Chicago has a lot of pop songs on their playlist, but rotates hits more like a Hot AC I still think those suburban Hot AC's based out of Oxnard/Ventura County are what's keepin a new CHR-leaning HAC station from emerging in L. A....Philly actually has a similar situation (it hasn't been able to sustain an "Active" Hot AC station cause of WPST/Trenton and WSTW/Wilmington DE, according to a poster that lives there) |
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Feb 19, 2008 13:05:02 GMT -5
The management at KIIS has gone on record by stating that their objective is to dominate the 18-34 demo, as do tons of other CHR/Pop stations nationwide, and leave the true mass-appeal music position to their sister) Hot AC and/or AC stations, which KOST and KBIG ( which hasn't sounded THIS good in well over a decade) do very well at.
KBIG (aka My1043FM.com) needed a major makeover, and sounds dramatically better, with a much larger library than it used to have, yet one which is very well focused.
Ventura County's Hot AC station (KBBY, @ 95.1) cannot be heard in most of LA County due to that flamethrower of a signal (with a new transmitter in Orange County) belonging to Riverside's country powerhouse KFRG on the same frequency.
San Diego's Hot AC station, Star 94 (KMYI, @ 94.1) absolutely explodes into Ventura County with a ridiculously powerful signal.
Consequently, KBIG serves as the 'Top 40 station for adults' throughout LA and Ventura County, which has been the mission of the Hot AC format throughout it's entire sixteen-year history, as exemplified by the format's most widely used positioning statement, 'Today's Best Music Without The Rap & Hard Rock'.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Feb 19, 2008 16:48:54 GMT -5
Ventura County's Hot AC station (KBBY, @ 95.1) cannot be heard in most of LA County due to that flamethrower of a signal (with a new transmitter in Orange County) belonging to Riverside's country powerhouse KFRG on the same frequency. Hey Marv doesn't KFYV (the other Hot AC out of Ventura County) reach further towards L. A. though, or at least cover a lot of the suburbs? |
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Post by threedollafoaholla on Feb 19, 2008 17:51:13 GMT -5
The management at KIIS has gone on record by stating that their objective is to dominate the 18-34 demo, as do tons of other CHR/Pop stations nationwide, and leave the true mass-appeal music position to their sister) Hot AC and/or AC stations, which KOST and KBIG ( which hasn't sounded THIS good in well over a decade) do very well at. KBIG (aka My1043FM.com) needed a major makeover, and sounds dramatically better, with a much larger library than it used to have, yet one which is very well focused. Ventura County's Hot AC station (KBBY, @ 95.1) cannot be heard in most of LA County due to that flamethrower of a signal (with a new transmitter in Orange County) belonging to Riverside's country powerhouse KFRG on the same frequency. San Diego's Hot AC station, Star 94 (KMYI, @ 94.1) absolutely explodes into Ventura County with a ridiculously powerful signal. Consequently, KBIG serves as the 'Top 40 station for adults' throughout LA and Ventura County, which has been the mission of the Hot AC format throughout it's entire sixteen-year history, as exemplified by the format's most widely used positioning statement, 'Today's Best Music Without The Rap & Hard Rock'. Great post. Good luck getting John.. to buy into it, though. |
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John77
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Post by John77 on Feb 20, 2008 0:50:08 GMT -5
Yeah it's kinda random how KIIS is spinnin Paramore 44x a week, but all other Alt. Rock hits don't "fit" their audience... It indeed is VERY random. There are plenty of 18 year-olds that are also into stuff like Daughtry, Carrie Underwood and Taylor Swift as well. And you know how many times those three artists have been played combined at KIIS during the non-weekend countdown shows. Yes, a big fat bagel. But they play Miley Cyrus and Jonas Brothers. It's almost as if the PD either likes an artist or song and plays it. They DO NOT program to their demos!!! The beancounters incorrectly will tell you differently. I can't agree this is the case... living here in SoCal and knowing very well where you can and can't pick up radio stations better than the back of my thumb (one of the advantages of being a button puncher), I can truthfully tell you that people in L.A. probably have no clue that KBBY, KRUZ & KFYV even exist. You simply can't pick up those stations in probably 99% of the L.A. metro area. To further Marv's point on KBBY, it's pretty much gone about 2-3 miles south of me at the L.A./Ventura county border. If I'm in the right spots in southern Ventura county, I can actually pick up KFRG over KBBY on the 95.1 freq. KFYV's signal actually starts fading out a little further north (about 2-3 miles or so) than KBBY's does. Interestingly, I live in a spot where I can pick up KFYV just fine in my home, but KBBY (and KFRG for that matter)just doesn't come in at all. Yet, you go to the bottom of the hill I'm on (1/4 mile away), and it's just the opposite! The topography here probably helps explains the overall picture of this the best... There's city about 10 miles South of the L.A./Ventura county line named Calabasas which pretty much separates the weaker-signaled Ventura county stations from reaching down that way. Lots of hills and bends (and a big grade on the 101 freeway) pretty much make it impossible for the signal of any Ventura/Oxnard station to penetrate far into the San Fernando Valley, let alone the L.A. metro area. Not to mention, you have an ocean not too far away, and a bending coastline, and it's pretty hard for the weak-signaled stations to the north to penetrate too far south or east. |
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John77
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Post by John77 on Feb 20, 2008 1:17:21 GMT -5
The management at KIIS has gone on record by stating that their objective is to dominate the 18-34 demo, as do tons of other CHR/Pop stations nationwide, and leave the true mass-appeal music position to their sister) Hot AC and/or AC stations, which KOST and KBIG ( which hasn't sounded THIS good in well over a decade) do very well at. KBIG (aka My1043FM.com) needed a major makeover, and sounds dramatically better, with a much larger library than it used to have, yet one which is very well focused. Ventura County's Hot AC station (KBBY, @ 95.1) cannot be heard in most of LA County due to that flamethrower of a signal (with a new transmitter in Orange County) belonging to Riverside's country powerhouse KFRG on the same frequency. San Diego's Hot AC station, Star 94 (KMYI, @ 94.1) absolutely explodes into Ventura County with a ridiculously powerful signal. Consequently, KBIG serves as the 'Top 40 station for adults' throughout LA and Ventura County, which has been the mission of the Hot AC format throughout it's entire sixteen-year history, as exemplified by the format's most widely used positioning statement, 'Today's Best Music Without The Rap & Hard Rock'. Great post. Good luck getting John.. to buy into it, though. Marv ALWAYS puts up great posts... he is a man of GREAT wisdom and knowledge! I'm not exactly sure what there is to "buy into" though... KBIG sounds infinitely better than they used to for sure. I truly think they could pull a 3-share at some point with some tweaking. For example, why aren't they playing ANY of the new Matchbox 20 stuff when they seem to be one of their "core" artists if you listen to their gold/recurrents? A lot of their "new" listeners came right over from KYSR. At least they did add Lifehouse's "First Time" not too long ago. It would be nice though if they "Whatever It Takes" some spins though... or at least spiked it. They're spinning "Bubbly" 5x a day, but given it's HUGE success, wouldn't it make sense to give "Realize" a few spikes at least? Long term, if they want to succeed, they need to spin the currents a little more and also add a few more of them. But they may be on the right track. I think you need to get those HEAVY currents up to about 50 spins or so a week at least, especially in a market like this one. On the bright side, they are playing new stuff like "Love Song" and Ingrid Michaelson's "The Way I Am" and they finally added Daughtry's "Feels Like Tonight" this week... Also, there's also a VERY nice balance in their recurrents and as Marv states, they have a very deep library. It's nice to hear the variety in their gold. Can someone PLEASE also explain to me why Mediabase still has them on their AC panel? Clearly, this is NOT an AC station... Come April 1, when the panels are revised, I would expect they get moved to the Hot AC panel... or heck, maybe they will have evolved into a top 40 by then. OK, so I'm dreaming on that last one.  March 9th is when the next aribtrons come out. It will be interesting to see the new ratings for sure. |
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Feb 20, 2008 17:39:06 GMT -5
This is going to be somewhat long, so hang in there!!!!!!
1)---There are several spots on the FM dial where stations routinely collide, with 95.1 (KBBY & KFRG), 99.9 (KOLA/Riverside & a Rock station in Ventura County---don't know the call letters), and 100.7 (Country station KHAY/Oxnard & San Diego's 'JACK-FM' among them.
The FCC has always been very inconsistent about separating stations on the same frequency, which can be really inrritating sometimes.
2)--I'd never heard of KFYV until 'atlantaboy' mentioned it; there's an Hispanic station in LA on the same frequency (105.5),
formerly the home of a legendary rock station (KNAC/Long Beach).
3)--The only Ventura County station which comes into LA cleanly is Oxnard's CHR/Rhythmic powerhouse Q104.7 (KCAQ); the nearest station on the same frequency is Classic Hits KDES/Palm Springs, which is 180+ miles away.
And yes, KBIG should be moved to the Hot AC panel ASAP; I don't see why they couldn't eventually pull a 3.0 share sometime this year.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Feb 20, 2008 18:55:57 GMT -5
^Yeah I guess what I meant by the two Ventura County Hot AC stations keepin L. A. from gettin high ratings from a mainstream CHR (or CHR-leaning Hot AC) is more that the suburban counties have their own HAC's so they don't need a Hot AC (or mainstream CHR) from L. A., and it's usually the more outer suburbs that support (and raise the most revenue) from Hot AC and mainstream CHR The outer NYC suburbs in New Jersey, Long Island, etc. all listen to WPLJ, and I'm pretty sure that's how PLJ raises the most revenue (from these outer suburbs, not NYC proper) But you guys know much more than I do about the geography of that area so...not sure That's awesome that KBIG is turning into more of a Hot AC though...sometimes stations start out really conservative (esp. if that kind of music hasn't been played in a while), so it sounds like you guys might get all the new CHR pop/rock songs on KBIG in a couple months or so  |
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Post by tico on Feb 20, 2008 20:44:26 GMT -5
I never understood how the FCC allowed SoCal radio stations to co-exist that close to the dial to each other. When I was in San Diego, I could hear most of the Los Angeles stations coming through, especially the farther north I went.
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