John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 14, 2007 9:26:42 GMT -5
KBIG really needs to add some more currents and up their spins if they really want to succeed in this market. After a promising start - went up 1.7 to 2.0 in the ratings, they're back down to a 1.8... You look at the titles and it's definitely not an AC station... It's much more Hot AC, it would even be CHR-ish in some markets...
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Dec 14, 2007 12:19:03 GMT -5
No one in LA has added either Kid Kelly's 'BackTrax 80's' or 'Casey's Top 20' since KBIG dropped both of them, which makes no sense under any circumstances.
This station does have a very wide-ranging bunch of cuts in their library, having heard 'I Love Rock & Roll' recently.
But it continues to be hamstrung by being part of a cluster with KOST & KYSR, as do tons of Hot AC stations across the country; that makes for a safe & predictable radio station which, like most radio stations out there, continues to be horrendously micromanaged and ridiculously safe programming-wise.
It definitely won't turn the market upside down as 'JACK-FM' did almost three years ago.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Dec 14, 2007 22:11:41 GMT -5
^^ Exactly...
I mean do they want a 1.7??? Are they happy with it? I doubt it! If they run this thing like a CHR station or at least get the heavy currents up in the 60-70 spins per week range, there's no reason they couldn't double their ratings and be in the 3-range that JACK-FM usually find's itself in... the market is STARVING for a CHR, why can't they make K-BIG into something that is CHR formatted???
In summation, the bean-counters at CC still have zero idea what they are doing. Take some freakin' chances, what do you have to lose???
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Dec 15, 2007 10:18:05 GMT -5
KBIG really needs to add some more currents and up their spins if they really want to succeed in this market. After a promising start - went up 1.7 to 2.0 in the ratings, they're back down to a 1.8... You look at the titles and it's definitely not an AC station... It's much more Hot AC, it would even be CHR-ish in some markets... Yeah Arbitron lists them as "Adult Hits" (JACK format)...Mediabase has them as mainstream AC...lookin at their playlist, they look like a "delayed Hot AC" like WMTX/Tampa (basically the Hot AC Top 10 from about a year ago, except for Bubbly, Into The Night, and Apologize) and WMTX is considered mainstream AC b/c it takes them so long to put current HAC hits into high rotation
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John77
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Post by John77 on Feb 2, 2008 21:17:03 GMT -5
Well, they did tick back up to 2.0 in the latest book, while KYSR lost 30% of it's audience to go from a 2.0 to a 1.4... Since KIIS for all intents and purposes is a CHR/Rhythmic station, why don't they just take it more that direction and wipe out KPWR once and for all? Then they can take KBIG mainstream and have both a CHR/Pop and a CHR/Rhy station in the market and be in complete control. I don't think the CC beancounters though have ANY capability of thinking outside their little box like this though!
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Feb 3, 2008 15:38:04 GMT -5
^I think (not sure) they're afraid mainstream CHR won't work in L. A. cause (1)the city itself has such a high Hispanic population which by far prefers rhythmic material, and (2)L. A.'s suburbs (unlike New York City's) now have Hot AC's which are almost CHRs
I think it might be these suburban Hot ACs that pushed KIIS completely away from pop/rock in the early 2000s
San Francisco doesn't have a CHR at all (for similar reasons I think, except subsitute in Asian population for Hispanic), and San Diego's CHR is nearly Rhythmic also I think...both San Fran and San Diego have tried mainstream CHRs in the past, and they have failed with low ratings - I think CC might be afraid that the same would happen if it tried mainstream CHR again in L. A.
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Post by tico on Feb 3, 2008 23:21:55 GMT -5
^^ Exactly... I mean do they want a 1.7??? Are they happy with it? I doubt it! If they run this thing like a CHR station or at least get the heavy currents up in the 60-70 spins per week range, there's no reason they couldn't double their ratings and be in the 3-range that JACK-FM usually find's itself in... the market is STARVING for a CHR, why can't they make K-BIG into something that is CHR formatted??? In summation, the bean-counters at CC still have zero idea what they are doing. Take some freakin' chances, what do you have to lose??? Because Clear Channel owns the "CHR" station in the market, they're not going to compete against themselves (though you could question why they're doing so with KBIG and Star 98.7, though 98.7 is leaning towards the modern-rock side of hot AC). If there weren't so much media consolidation, one of those stations could be a direct competitor to Kiss right now. Since KMVN doesn't seem to be doing much with rhythmic AC, that could a good move for them to go CHR, should they decide not to go back to country.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Feb 4, 2008 9:25:26 GMT -5
^^ Exactly... I mean do they want a 1.7??? Are they happy with it? I doubt it! If they run this thing like a CHR station or at least get the heavy currents up in the 60-70 spins per week range, there's no reason they couldn't double their ratings and be in the 3-range that JACK-FM usually find's itself in... the market is STARVING for a CHR, why can't they make K-BIG into something that is CHR formatted??? In summation, the bean-counters at CC still have zero idea what they are doing. Take some freakin' chances, what do you have to lose??? Because Clear Channel owns the "CHR" station in the market, they're not going to compete against themselves (though you could question why they're doing so with KBIG and Star 98.7, though 98.7 is leaning towards the modern-rock side of hot AC). If there weren't so much media consolidation, one of those stations could be a direct competitor to Kiss right now. Since KMVN doesn't seem to be doing much with rhythmic AC, that could a good move for them to go CHR, should they decide not to go back to country. This is EXACTLY my point. Can't someone think out of the box at CC? I think there is plenty of room for them to own a mainstream CHR and a CHR/Rhytmic station... Why can't it work? People just assume that a mainstream CHR can't work here. That's hogwash! KIIS has been a lot more mainstream sounding at various stages of their life... I mean isn't the ultimate goal to get rid of the competition entirely? Lean KIIS more toward KPWR to get rid of them once and for all, and make KBIG a mainstream CHR - the station this market's been starving for seemingly forever. KMVN needs to do something... another sub-1 book! With Rick Dees experience with top 40, I would think taking it that direction (mainstream) and plugging the hole between KIIS and KBIG would be logical if they want some better ratings.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Feb 4, 2008 9:33:09 GMT -5
^I think (not sure) they're afraid mainstream CHR won't work in L. A. cause (1)the city itself has such a high Hispanic population which by far prefers rhythmic material, and (2)L. A.'s suburbs (unlike New York City's) now have Hot AC's which are almost CHRs I think it might be these suburban Hot ACs that pushed KIIS completely away from pop/rock in the early 2000s San Francisco doesn't have a CHR at all (for similar reasons I think, except subsitute in Asian population for Hispanic), and San Diego's CHR is nearly Rhythmic also I think...both San Fran and San Diego have tried mainstream CHRs in the past, and they have failed with low ratings - I think CC might be afraid that the same would happen if it tried mainstream CHR again in L. A. They assume... things aren't the same in this market as 10 years ago. We have A LOT of transplants here! The suburbs do have some Hot AC's, but you also have to remember that these Hot AC's don't reach too far into KIIS FM's main territory... there are a lot of white people in the San Fernando Valley and Riverside for example that can't hear any of these Hot AC's... Star now for all intents and purpose is a modern rock station, trying to steal KROQ's listeners. Not surprisingly it's failing miserably so far... San Francisco isn't really that good of an example to use with the demographics. Their lack of a top 40 (and lack of a Country station) has more to do with it's unique demographics in terms of having a very high gay population. In my experience - people at work, here, etc... Gays aren't into Country, Christian and mainstream pop as much as the general population... and hence this is why none of these formats has historically done well in the Bay area.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Feb 4, 2008 17:46:25 GMT -5
^^ Exactly... I mean do they want a 1.7??? Are they happy with it? I doubt it! If they run this thing like a CHR station or at least get the heavy currents up in the 60-70 spins per week range, there's no reason they couldn't double their ratings and be in the 3-range that JACK-FM usually find's itself in... the market is STARVING for a CHR, why can't they make K-BIG into something that is CHR formatted??? In summation, the bean-counters at CC still have zero idea what they are doing. Take some freakin' chances, what do you have to lose??? Because Clear Channel owns the "CHR" station in the market, they're not going to compete against themselves Thing is though Clear Channel co-owns a mainstream CHR (which has been startin to lean pretty Rhythmic) and a Rhythmic station in Boston, and the two overlap on tons of music...both stations are near the top of the market (there's no Urban station btw), and it that case CC is basically competing against itself I really think it has more to do with Clear Channel thinkin that mainstream CHR can't work in L. A. (for whatever reason)
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Feb 4, 2008 17:58:06 GMT -5
San Francisco isn't really that good of an example to use with the demographics. Their lack of a top 40 (and lack of a Country station) has more to do with it's unique demographics in terms of having a very high gay population. In my experience - people at work, here, etc... Gays aren't into Country, Christian and mainstream pop as much as the general population... and hence this is why none of these formats has historically done well in the Bay area. Wow never thought about that...actually I thought mainstream CHR did pretty well with gay listeners...there's a syndicated gay-issues program I've heard on the air on Q100 in ATL (a mainstream CHR), and I remember them sayin they're on tons of other CHRs nationwide including Z100/New York
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John77
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Post by John77 on Feb 5, 2008 10:10:08 GMT -5
San Francisco isn't really that good of an example to use with the demographics. Their lack of a top 40 (and lack of a Country station) has more to do with it's unique demographics in terms of having a very high gay population. In my experience - people at work, here, etc... Gays aren't into Country, Christian and mainstream pop as much as the general population... and hence this is why none of these formats has historically done well in the Bay area. Wow never thought about that...actually I thought mainstream CHR did pretty well with gay listeners...there's a syndicated gay-issues program I've heard on the air on Q100 in ATL (a mainstream CHR), and I remember them sayin they're on tons of other CHRs nationwide including Z100/New York For the most part, that's the exception, rather than the rule. It's usually the Rhythmic CHR's which have better success amongst the gays. You also have to remember that a lot of the people in the music business lean strongly to the left politically, so finding gay programming on a CHR really isn't too unusual. KYSR had it here when it was a Hot AC if I'm not mistaken. A lot of Hot AC's play the artists that gays are aligned with so I would expect that kind of specialty programming to be them a lot.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Feb 5, 2008 10:12:48 GMT -5
Because Clear Channel owns the "CHR" station in the market, they're not going to compete against themselves I really think it has more to do with Clear Channel thinkin that mainstream CHR can't work in L. A. (for whatever reason) That's the bottom line, and unfortunately they are completely inflexible in their way of thinking. What truly amazes me is that KMVN just continues to languish with sub-1.0 ratings, yet they have Rick Dees just sitting there with his WEALTH of CHR/Pop experience... why don't they fill the market's hole and take Movin CHR/Pop with Dees' experience??? Movin is a failure. Admit it, get over it and do something constructive with the frequency so that the idiots at CC will be running scared!!!
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Post by threedollafoaholla on Feb 9, 2008 17:55:17 GMT -5
Because Clear Channel owns the "CHR" station in the market, they're not going to compete against themselves (though you could question why they're doing so with KBIG and Star 98.7, though 98.7 is leaning towards the modern-rock side of hot AC). If there weren't so much media consolidation, one of those stations could be a direct competitor to Kiss right now. Since KMVN doesn't seem to be doing much with rhythmic AC, that could a good move for them to go CHR, should they decide not to go back to country. KIIS has been a lot more mainstream sounding at various stages of their life... I mean isn't the ultimate goal to get rid of the competition entirely? And at those points in the life of the radio station, it: 1. Did not have anywhere near as good or as consistent of ratings as it does now. 2. Did not have as strong of a revenue base as it does now. Therefore, why "fix" what isn't broken? No, the "ultimate goal" is not to "wipe out competition entirely," the ultimate goal is to make money. If KIIS and KPWR can co-exist at revenue levels satisfactory enough for both Clear Channel and Emmis, then great.
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johnnywest
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Post by johnnywest on Feb 24, 2008 10:55:15 GMT -5
Good news! As of today, AT20 is back on. Same time as before: 7 a.m. Sundays.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Mar 22, 2008 1:37:05 GMT -5
KIIS has been a lot more mainstream sounding at various stages of their life... I mean isn't the ultimate goal to get rid of the competition entirely? And at those points in the life of the radio station, it: 1. Did not have anywhere near as good or as consistent of ratings as it does now. 2. Did not have as strong of a revenue base as it does now. Therefore, why "fix" what isn't broken? No, the "ultimate goal" is not to "wipe out competition entirely," the ultimate goal is to make money. If KIIS and KPWR can co-exist at revenue levels satisfactory enough for both Clear Channel and Emmis, then great. With no KPWR and a thriving KBIG and KIIS, wouldn't CC be making much more money though?
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John77
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Post by John77 on Mar 30, 2008 16:51:44 GMT -5
They are doing an "all dance/disco" weekend... talk about a ratings killer. :( I've listened to more KOST, KIIS, KFYV, KBBY and KRUZ the past two days than I have in a VERY long time!!!
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radiobrett
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Post by radiobrett on Mar 30, 2008 19:24:58 GMT -5
Maybe they are trying to woo back some of the old 104.3 KBIG listeners who haven't returned since the format flip?
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John77
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Post by John77 on Mar 30, 2008 20:55:13 GMT -5
Actually KBIG's ratings have been higher since the flip... last thing you want to do when you have a new radio station is disenfranchise the listeners.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 1, 2008 17:22:50 GMT -5
^KBIG's new Arbitron ratings are 2.0...not lookin that great yet lol
Still can't believe how few people in L. A. (proper) listen to HAC, or even pop/rock in general...I know PLJ's pretty low in NYC, but Z100 at least plays mainstream pop/rock, and there's also a new Triple A there that's gettin pretty decent ratings (esp. for a Triple A)
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John77
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Post by John77 on Apr 2, 2008 0:18:36 GMT -5
^KBIG's new Arbitron ratings are 2.0...not lookin that great yet lol Still can't believe how few people in L. A. (proper) listen to HAC, or even pop/rock in general...I know PLJ's pretty low in NYC, but Z100 at least plays mainstream pop/rock, and there's also a new Triple A there that's gettin pretty decent ratings (esp. for a Triple A) I think the problem is CC has no one with brains enough to do a HAC properly here in L.A. Why isn't KBIG playing any new MB20? How about the new Colbie after the MASSIVE success of "Bubbly?" They've added some R&B-oriented stuff lately, which doesn't seem to fit in well... I don't quite get it.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 2, 2008 16:11:14 GMT -5
^KBIG's new Arbitron ratings are 2.0...not lookin that great yet lol Still can't believe how few people in L. A. (proper) listen to HAC, or even pop/rock in general...I know PLJ's pretty low in NYC, but Z100 at least plays mainstream pop/rock, and there's also a new Triple A there that's gettin pretty decent ratings (esp. for a Triple A) I think the problem is CC has no one with brains enough to do a HAC properly here in L.A. Why isn't KBIG playing any new MB20? How about the new Colbie after the MASSIVE success of "Bubbly?" They've added some R&B-oriented stuff lately, which doesn't seem to fit in well... I don't quite get it. Yeah think I'm def. goin back to the suburban Hot AC theory (lol) ...really think it might be true though cause if you think about it, most of WPLJ's ratings come from the Jersey and Connecticut suburbs (esp. the Jersey suburbs), since the NYC area is close enough together that PLJ reaches the outer suburbs with a clear signal I know that L. A. has a lot of suburbs close to the city that don't pick up the two Ventura County HACs, but I'm thinkin that the ratio of urban-oriented to HAC-oriented listeners within L. A. county is just too high to support a mainstream CHR or high-rated HAC station that gets on new music quickly I'm guessin that the L. A. area doesn't get "solidly suburban" (like Morristown, NJ or Long Island) until you get to the Ventura County area, which I guess is far enough from L. A. to have its own Modern/Mass-Appeal Hot ACs (in place of mainstream CHRs) Just wonderin if that could make sense, or if I'm completely wrong lol...just can't think of any other reason why pop/rock in general would do so poorly in L. A. proper In other words, if Ventura County didn't have two Hot ACs of its own (or if it were closer to L. A. I guess), KBIG would be pickin up its audience, becomin much more current, and gettin much higher ratings
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John77
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Post by John77 on Apr 2, 2008 22:40:06 GMT -5
^^ The suburban Hot AC theory just doesn't work here though, because L.A.'s suburbs on the north and west side can't pick up the Ventura/Oxnard/Santa Barbara Hot AC's...
Like I've said before, the topography here and stations from other markets like KFRG (95.1) just kill them right about the L.A./Ventura country line. I can't get KBBY (95.1) or KFRG at my home no matter where I'm at... KFYV (105.5) doesn't come in much at all in my area, but I happen to be in a spot where I just happen to receive it perfectly in my home... drive 20 feet away though and it doesn't come in! The only Hot AC station of the 3 that goes into L.A. county at all really is KRUZ (97.5)... and even then, it's only about a 5-10 mile reach...
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 3, 2008 16:45:14 GMT -5
^^ The suburban Hot AC theory just doesn't work here though, because L.A.'s suburbs on the north and west side can't pick up the Ventura/Oxnard/Santa Barbara Hot AC's... I'm kinda thinkin of it the opposite way though...in other words, if Oxnard/Ventura didn't have those HAC's, KBIG and KIIS would be marketing that area, and leaning more Modern AC/Mainstream CHR...and if topography prevents L. A. signals from reachin Ventura County/Oxnard, that might be the reason that KBIG and KIIS need to target the immediate L. A. County audience and therefore stay away from Modern AC/Mainstream CHR (i. e. too high a ratio of urban/Hispanic to suburban listeners) ...I'm still just guessin though lol
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Apr 8, 2008 13:31:50 GMT -5
Hey Slinky just posted that L. A. has a new Triple A (which seems to play a lot of Modern AC currents, according to the sample hour posted)...great news IMO for L. A. radio! But this is prob. gonna make KBIG stay on the conservative side I think - anyhow, L. A. listeners can now hear pop/rhythmic hits on KIIS, straight pop/rock on KBIG, and more modern pop/rock on the new 100.3 Triple A station...there's just gonna be a lot of station-surfing involved if you wanna hear all the hits lol
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John77
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Post by John77 on Jul 8, 2008 22:28:58 GMT -5
well, KBIG remains stuck on a 1.8 12+... where it's been for 3 straight books...
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Jul 9, 2008 2:22:08 GMT -5
I've always felt that Hot AC should be the very best sounding format in existence right now, emphasizing today's biggest hits from all genres, and supplemented with a library stocked with most of the biggest CHR hits of the 80s and 90s, and especially the eighties.
KIIS's 10.0 rating in the fall of 1984 came at a spectacular time in that decade when they, WNCI, WZPL, WFLZ, WDCG, WKRQ, WZEE, KTFM, KRBE and numerous other killer CHR/Pop stations had double-digit ratings for most of the decade, and four of the very best CDs of the entire decade (courtesy of Don Henley, Tina Turner, Prince & Bruce Springsteen) were just loaded with hit singles and other stellar songs, with Henley's epic masterpiece 'Sunset Grill' leading the way.
If KBIG were to really widen their library, they'd undoubtedly take a huge bite out of KOST, KYSR & KIIS simultaneously; so for now it's just a very safely and non-adventurously programmed radio station, just like 99% of CCs other stations.
KBIG isn't nearly as good as it could be, and that's a real shame.
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John77
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Post by John77 on Oct 25, 2008 1:53:34 GMT -5
They do now sould a little better (sans the Billy Bush show) than they did when I last wrote about them. The PPM numbers seem to be showing that their listenership may have been underpresented by Arbitron's diary keepers by as much as 75%! More fuel for the fire that a truly mainstream CHR could actually work in this market...
They still play too many disco songs, though that may be ending soon as they are now going 8 hours of 80's on Saturday nights rather than the VERY out of place "Disco Saturday nights"...
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