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Post by reception on Jul 24, 2005 14:45:51 GMT -5
On the US Music Survey, Mark Wallengren mentioned it peaked at #2 on the AC chart for eight weeks.
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Post by A Thug Named Slickback on Jul 24, 2005 18:27:43 GMT -5
I think it was #9 on Billboard's Hot 100 Airplay chart, though it was never released as a single. I used to hate this song and skip over it all the time... until I heard it on the radio a couple of times, then I jumped on the bandwgon.
The live video version blows the album version out of the water.
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WhySoSerious?
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Post by WhySoSerious? on Jul 24, 2005 18:32:46 GMT -5
I appreciate what she was going for with the throwback feel, but I still don't think it should have ever been a single.
One of my least favorite singles from her pre-1999.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2005 18:34:57 GMT -5
I appreciate what she was going for with the throwback feel, but I still don't think it should have ever been a single. One of my least favorite singles from her pre-1999. I agree.
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Post by A Thug Named Slickback on Jul 24, 2005 18:38:14 GMT -5
I appreciate what she was going for with the throwback feel, but I still don't think it should have ever been a single. One of my least favorite singles from her pre-1999. I agree. Though I did end up liking the song, I think it got so much airplay because Mariah was hot at the time -- not because it was one of her best songs. Daydream was an album that had few more potential singles left on it. I think "Melt Away" or "Open Arms" would have fared rather well.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2005 18:58:28 GMT -5
I'm not really a fan of her cover of "Open Arms" (it's my least favorite on the album) and it's pretty universally known as not being one of her better songs, but I agree that she could have gone with something else. She would have sacrified the big AC airplay (it was a #2 AC hit) that this got, but "Underneath The Stars," "Melt Away," and "Slipping Away" (it's a travesty that wasn't on the album) may have been able to make up for it in R&B airplay. I really think "Slipping Away" would have been a big hit. I can't believe it didn't even make the album.
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Post by kellydicted on Jul 24, 2005 19:52:04 GMT -5
It's a skippable, boring track.
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Post by soulster on Jul 24, 2005 22:43:24 GMT -5
I liked it. I just wish she didn't start the song on such a low register... after she gets past that, the song is good!
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Post by Pink Champagne Ricochet on Jul 24, 2005 23:03:21 GMT -5
<3 this song; although i'm a freak for cheesy, goopy ballads. If Mariah allowed her original songs to be used on American Idol, i'm sure this would've been performed a million times.
however; i didn't know it was actually formally released in the US. i know it didn't chart on the Hot 100 b/c it had no commercial single (which was needed in those days), but I thought it just got played. It ended up on the 2-CD Greatest Hits set, but I thought that was just b/c Mariah herself may have really liked it (isn't Underneath the Stars on there too?)
I tend to believe that she may have had to pick and choose her battles. Remember, this was still 1995, when r&b and hip hop weren't totally mainstream like they are today :) Maybe in exchange for allowing her to do the "Fantasy" remix with ODB and release it as a video, Columbia got another decidedly AC-oriented single in exchange (especially given how Tommy Mottolla didn't want her doing more hip hop stuff in the first place). The Daydream era is the best example of her and her label strattling the lines between r&b/hip hop and pop/AC, being able to gain fans in the former without losing many in the latter. However that kind of thing is always precarious, and didn't last.
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j
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Post by j on Jul 26, 2005 8:23:17 GMT -5
A #1 on my personal chart. Probably because I love "Always Be My Baby" and anything Mariah released immediately after "ABMB" would've probably hit #1 riding on its coat tails alone... maybe even "Loverboy". :o
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jond7699
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Post by jond7699 on Jul 26, 2005 9:57:30 GMT -5
Love it. It was the only other choice as a single imo
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Hervard
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Post by Hervard on Jul 26, 2005 10:08:02 GMT -5
Meh, it was OK. Not one of her better songs by any means, but better than some (that piece of junk that is called "Loverboy" comes to mind!)
I always thought this song sounded like "Crazy" by Aerosmith, especially in the chorus, where I could listen to one song and sing the other.
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Post by itsbeenaweek on Jul 27, 2005 21:15:53 GMT -5
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cking33
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Post by cking33 on Jul 28, 2005 22:48:19 GMT -5
I'm not really a fan of her cover of "Open Arms" (it's my least favorite on the album) and it's pretty universally known as not being one of her better songs, but I agree that she could have gone with something else. She would have sacrified the big AC airplay (it was a #2 AC hit) that this got, but "Underneath The Stars," "Melt Away," and "Slipping Away" (it's a travesty that wasn't on the album) may have been able to make up for it in R&B airplay. I really think "Slipping Away" would have been a big hit. I can't believe it didn't even make the album. Yes, "Slipping Away" should at least have been on the album, it was too good, especially over "Daydream Interlude." I don't understand it. As for "Forever," my dad bought the album because of the throwback feel to the song. Maybe Sony tried to attract an older crowd by releasing this.
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johnm1120
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Post by johnm1120 on Jul 28, 2005 23:20:32 GMT -5
One of my favorites from Daydream. The whole album was just awesome for that matter!!!
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jul 29, 2005 14:19:03 GMT -5
I've grown to appreciate it; it's sort of like her "Hopelessly Devoted To You" in its feel, its theme, and the way she sings it. I appreciate that she and Walter went for something different for them in both the production and the chord progressions.
I agree with others, though, that it was a poor choice for a single. Something like the great "Melt Away" would have appealed to more formats and would have better set up the R&B direction she was clearly moving toward. Does anyone know why "Forever" was chosen? I assume it wasn't released commercially so as not to ruin her streak of #1 hits.
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Caviar
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Post by Caviar on Jul 30, 2005 9:22:54 GMT -5
"Daydream" was her best album IMO.
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Post by britrocks16 on Jul 30, 2005 10:53:05 GMT -5
"Daydream" was her best album IMO. That title goes to "Butterfly" IMO. It's very very closely followed by "The Emancipation Of Mimi". "Daydream" is in 3rd place for me.
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Post by die Lotterie on Jul 30, 2005 12:32:02 GMT -5
Addictive song.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jul 30, 2005 15:03:02 GMT -5
Interestingly, I just ran across this Mariah quote in a 1998 Trace magazine:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2005 15:16:06 GMT -5
The thing is, I kind of would have sided with Tommy Motolla on that issue. "Melt Away" and "Underneath The Stars" are nice songs that had way more urban potential than "Forever," but "Forever" was a guaranteed smash at Adult Contemporary, Adult Top 40, and CHR/Pop. In 1996, what was more important when you're dealing with the most successful artist of the time period? Urban airplay wasn't even counted towards the Hot 100.
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Post by omgw00t on Jul 30, 2005 19:46:30 GMT -5
I really like this song, though the live version does blow the studio version out of the water. The way those lovely bird-like high notes just roll out of her mouth on the "you's", is sublime. As a single, given how hot she was during this moment, I really believe anything she released would've gone to #1. Which is why I don't understand why they didn't put out more singles from this album.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2005 19:52:10 GMT -5
I don't think this would have gone to #1 on the Hot 100 if a single was released and that's exactly why a CD single wasn't released, and the same goes for "Butterfly". "Forever" peaked at #9 in airplay which was a lot lower than the first two which peaked at #1 and "Always Be My Baby" which peaked at #2. Not to mention, the single sales for the first three went along with the airplay. "Forever" would have had to have major #1 single sales and if "Always Be My Baby" only managed a week at #1 in single sales, I doubt "Forever" would have been able to pull it off. As for "Butterfly," I've always thought it would have peaked at #3 behind "Candle In The Wind" and "You Make Me Wanna" if Sony had chosen to commercially release it. Because they left "Forever" and "Butterfly" as radio only releases, she got a streak of 5 consecutive #1 singles on the Hot 100, the second time in her career that she pulled it off.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jul 31, 2005 19:30:32 GMT -5
I understand "Forever" may have been a more guaranteed hit, but "Melt Away" isn't exactly non-commercial. R&B ballads like that had been doing well for years (Babyface himself had had a top 10 hit by then), so there was no real reason not to release it. I can see "UTS" not being seen as commercial, but "Melt Away" is a different story.
I've always assumed neither "Forever" or "Butterfly" had a single because they wouldn't have hit #1, but I still don't understand why "Butterfly" peaked at #16. It's an exceptional ballad, and Mariah was still decently popular at the time. Why didn't it do better? It didn't even make the top 10 at AC radio.
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Post by Say It Right Only On Sundays on Jul 31, 2005 19:46:13 GMT -5
Number 1 reason why Butterfly probably didn't do well was probably it was following up Honey. A video where she was sexier than she had ever appeared before and more urban than she has been before at that point in her career. If you look at the Butterfly album as a whole aside from a couple songs here and there it was a very urban album. AC radio probably took this more urban leaning album as a snub to them, thus, they treated the songs from the album as irrelevant.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2005 19:49:39 GMT -5
"Honey" peaked probably about 10 positions lower than expected on the airplay chart (It should have been an insant chart topper given her success at the time.) The album, as well as it sold, sold half as much as Daydream. Although it's critical success has saved it, it wasn't the commercial success that was expected and radio responded. Not to mention, hip-hop wasn't at it's height at pop at the time. "Honey" didn't fit in as well as songs like "Fantasy" and "Dreamlover". It did just fine at urban and rhythmic though. Then she went and released a syrupy ballad that sounded like a handful of her other ballads. I think she was straddling too many fences. That's definitely when adult contemporary radio lost touch.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jul 31, 2005 21:02:59 GMT -5
I don't see how "Butterfly" sounds like her other ballads. It has a more urban/gospel feel to it, and just a more raw feel in general. It was also where people really took notice of her whisper vocals (they work because she is singing of a delicate butterfly and then lets loose as the butterfly flies), which may have hurt the song as well.
I guess her image change could have hurt her at AC radio, but Madonna had AC hits even with all the furor over SEX and all.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2005 21:08:22 GMT -5
I don't think there's anything urban about "Butterfly" the song. It's a Walter Afanasieff ballad and he's as white as they come. As far as Mariah losing her AC base, it was because she was one of their core artists during the 90's and then she went and worked with Puff Daddy on her lead single... and you may disagree, but I think the general sentiment is that as far as Mariah's ballads go, they were way better in the early 90's than the late 90's and early part of this decade for that matter.
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Post by A Thug Named Slickback on Jul 31, 2005 22:40:39 GMT -5
Politics definitely hurt Mariah during the Butterfly era. First, the media touted the album a hip-hop record (which it really wasn't) and said that the lyrics were sexual than in the past (referring only to one line of "Babydoll"). That alienated the pop/ac audience before the album was even released. (The public had no problems with Mariah working with Puffy & Jermaine Dupri [plus ODB & DaBrat] during the Daydream era, because the media did not try to cast her as a gangstress at that time.)
Second, let's be honest: "Honey" was not her best work. In fact, I think it is the worst song on that phenomenal album. Moreover, her vocals on "Butterfly" sounded very awkward to those fans used to her belting style. I've always thought that record could have been HUGE with a more straightforward vocal delivery... It's lyrically and instrumentally one of her strongest works.
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Post by britrocks16 on Jul 31, 2005 22:46:01 GMT -5
"Honey" is one of her best songs without a doubt!
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