Pipa
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1 week at #1: Of Monsters and Men - Alligator
Joined: December 2004
Posts: 10,448
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Post by Pipa on Sept 14, 2008 20:03:34 GMT -5
Alternative, Rock, and Active Rock should all just combine, just call it "Rock". Use all of the R&R AND Mediabase stations and Billboard could have a top 100 Rock chart based entirely off Airplay, and #1 would have around 5000 spins all the time, which would pretty much mean only the most deserving songs would ever hit #1. Too bad it'll never happen... Mediabase actually did have a chart that combined them all...before it got shut down...
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Post by busyboy on Sept 15, 2008 5:07:42 GMT -5
Alternative, Rock, and Active Rock should all just combine, just call it "Rock". Use all of the R&R AND Mediabase stations and Billboard could have a top 100 Rock chart based entirely off Airplay, and #1 would have around 5000 spins all the time, which would pretty much mean only the most deserving songs would ever hit #1. Too bad it'll never happen... Mediabase actually did have a chart that combined them all...before it got shut down... I still miss my Mediabase... :'( The idea of a Rock Hot 100 is good, maybe even including digital sales. I wonder why they never started one. But then again, they only launched a chart for rock albums in 2006...
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jazklash
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Joined: December 2007
Posts: 1,222
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Post by jazklash on Sept 15, 2008 6:39:25 GMT -5
Mediabase actually did have a chart that combined them all...before it got shut down... I still miss my Mediabase... :'( The idea of a Rock Hot 100 is good, maybe even including digital sales. I wonder why they never started one. But then again, they only launched a chart for rock albums in 2006... They did have a Rock Albums chart at one time, but discontinued it. Until, of course, being back in 2006. But then again, is there really a point on charting a culture which hasn't been truly relevant - nü-metal's rise notwithstanding - since Kurt Cobain decided to put a bullet to his head?... Now I know you are probably thinking: what about indie's onslaught on TV commercials, teen-oriented TV shows and, especially, on the Internet? And I ask back: is indie really becoming this popular culture zeitgeist the way even nü-metal (arguably) was? Is it affecting the way kids talk, dress, act, etc.? Is even emo (which is much more popular than indie right now might be, by the way) this big of a juggernaut?
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Post by fran182 on Sept 15, 2008 11:46:49 GMT -5
Alternative, Rock, and Active Rock should all just combine, just call it "Rock". Use all of the R&R AND Mediabase stations and Billboard could have a top 100 Rock chart based entirely off Airplay, and #1 would have around 5000 spins all the time, which would pretty much mean only the most deserving songs would ever hit #1. Too bad it'll never happen... that would be cool
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Post by busyboy on Sept 15, 2008 15:50:19 GMT -5
I still miss my Mediabase... :'( The idea of a Rock Hot 100 is good, maybe even including digital sales. I wonder why they never started one. But then again, they only launched a chart for rock albums in 2006... They did have a Rock Albums chart at one time, but discontinued it. Until, of course, being back in 2006. I remember seeing a rock chart in 1992/1993, but I didn't know Billboard published it. I thought Soundscan sold it to whoever was interested in it (I have a few issues of Metal Hammer with that chart on it. LOL) But then again, is there really a point on charting a culture which hasn't been truly relevant - nü-metal's rise notwithstanding - since Kurt Cobain decided to put a bullet to his head?... Sure, why not? After all, they have all kinds of 'useless' charts (Electronic albums? WTH?). It would be a way to have a comprehensive look at the Rock formats, especially since two of them are pretty similar and, IMO, don't justify the existence of an Alt and an Active chart. I would even throw in Triple A. I'm saying this from a purely practical point of view, without expecting a real and meaningful representation of the trends in rock music from that sort of chart, just like today it only tells me what the most played songs are. But nothing else. It's not that rock isn't relevevant anymore, but the access to it and its fruition have changed in the last decade. More below... Now I know you are probably thinking: what about indie's onslaught on TV commercials, teen-oriented TV shows and, especially, on the Internet? And I ask back: is indie really becoming this popular culture zeitgeist the way even nü-metal (arguably) was? Is it affecting the way kids talk, dress, act, etc.? Is even emo (which is much more popular than indie right now might be, by the way) this big of a juggernaut? That's the Internet, and its power to change and fragment the industry in more ways than one. A really representative and meaningful chart should include the usual, official sources (Soundscan, Mediabase, BDS, online streamings, etc.), AND the unofficial data (illegal downloads from Rapidshare-like file storing services, torrents, P2P), which is what sites like Big Champagne provide (as well as the now defunct InfoFilter). Also, last.fm could provide precious info. I think I made my point, there are many new, web-related sources that are not considered. Yet? That would be closer to reality. Of course, one would need to take into account flie-swapping through e-mail and from hard disk to hard disk as well, but that would probably asking too much, right? ;)
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oscillations.
Diamond Member
Opinion = Fact
I was faced with a choice at a difficult age.
Joined: February 2005
Posts: 10,130
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Post by oscillations. on Sept 15, 2008 20:23:11 GMT -5
There is some kind of indie albums chart, but it's obscure and hard to access. Record store owners use it as an occasional reference point. Anyway, Nielsen's duty - and by extension, Billboard's duty - is to chart culture, not dictate it. They have more than enough resources to document and track every kind of sales data imaginable, no matter how small the niche. It's up to Billboard to determine how much of that content they translate into official charts. In my opinion, the more, the better. Inquiring minds have a right to know.
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oscillations.
Diamond Member
Opinion = Fact
I was faced with a choice at a difficult age.
Joined: February 2005
Posts: 10,130
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Post by oscillations. on Sept 15, 2008 20:54:00 GMT -5
Let's celebrate the 20th anniversary of the Billboard Modern Rock/Alternative Chart with the chart itself, the 120 Minutes Video Block Playlist, and this wonderful article from idolator.com Billboard Modern Rock/Alternative Chart 9/2/1988 (Possibly featuring oscillations' third favorite #1 ever after #1 Crush & Kiss Them For Me) Not only that, it's one of my favorite songs ever. :) It also would have been the perfect soundtrack to this show (Galliano, FW07)
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jazklash
Platinum Member
Joined: December 2007
Posts: 1,222
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Post by jazklash on Sept 16, 2008 6:13:19 GMT -5
Well, "remember" when Billboard once had a Disco Singles chart? There was even a time when Disco was actually a radio format. Now try and compare that with the situation rock music in in these days. I actually think there are parallels, if you ask me. And I agree that the charts would be much more accurate if untapped sources like illegal file-sharing and social networking sites could be accounted. But even then, I'd bet you that rock and indie would be behind genres like pop or urban, if you ask me.
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Post by busyboy on Sept 16, 2008 7:19:33 GMT -5
The Disco chart gave way to the Dance charts in 1985, just as the Alternative, Active and Mainstream rock charts should now be merged into a comprehensive rock chart (as well as one big rock radio format). So yes, to this extent I get the comparison.
As for the relevance of the rock culture, what are we gonna do about it, LOL? There's not a trend strong enough to take over pop and urban. Only individual success stories (Nickelback, Daughtry and Coldplay, lately).
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friday
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Post by friday on Sept 16, 2008 22:23:41 GMT -5
I've been saying for years that Billboard needs a "Rock 100" chart. No reason R&B and pop should get genre-specific comprehensive charts and rock gets left in the cold. And I assume digital single sales are substantive enough for songs of the format that they can't use the "there are no commerical rock singles anymore" argument.
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Post by My Life Is A Stereo on Sept 16, 2008 22:27:49 GMT -5
This easily shows, as pointed out before, how far "Alternative Radio" has strayed. From its early days as basically college radio music, to its transformation in the early to mid 90's with the mainstreaming of grunge, to its current state as basically Mainstream Rock Jr. It would be nice if Alternative was given back to the colleges and internet crowd and let it grow from there but alas it all about business and money. So getting your song played on Active or Modern doesn't matter to the programmers as long as the revenue is flowing and THAT is the saddest part of the loss of real alternative.
When you think about it , Alternative has become so mainstream it not the alternative to anything. Alternative by definition is something different than the norm. Thats been lost for years and unfortunately is never going to return to that.
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Green Baron
Diamond Member
Banned
Why do I start what I can't finish?
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Post by Green Baron on Nov 23, 2014 0:36:40 GMT -5
I threw my phone on the floor because of some of these posts. I'm not lying.
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