S_Bunny
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Post by S_Bunny on Nov 24, 2009 12:17:09 GMT -5
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Post by Mike Tuinstra on Nov 24, 2009 14:19:47 GMT -5
But how does this kind of 'pop' that Leona have any more merit? She's still gone to the biggest and best songwriters and producers, and crafted songs for the purpose of being hits and sounding commercial. It's every bit as calculated and soulless as the kind of music you call 'hip pop' (although I imagine you mean people like Flo-Rida, in which case that's just 'Pop' I'm afraid). And while we're on the subject, the AMA's were on the other night, and the most soulful, celebratory, all-inclusive, accepting, genre-crossing performance came from Jay-Z and Alicia doing 'Empire State Of Mind'...that much can be seen from the crowd reaction as well as the music itself. That song is Number One on the Billboard Hot 100 and very much the kind of thing the ignorant ones might call 'hip pop'. It's just a silly phrase, one that doesn't really exist. And even if, it has far more merit and identity than 'Echo' does. I can see people not wanting Leona to turn into Flo-Rida, but pretending her music is to individual, artistic and original to be sullied by crass commerciality is a little ridiculous when it's the very kind of music you're listening to when you listen to her. Besides, if we've got issues of originality and thoughtfulness, it's case of swings and roundabouts (although it's pretty safe to say that most mass-market music at the moment truly lacks that ). But in the mid 1990's Hip Hop was the most progressive, influential and original music in the country...it gave a voice to the voiceless, all the while shifting millions of copies in the process. The current state of something doesn't exclude it's merits in the past, nor it's potential merit in the future. Long post, but here's to trying to explain my whereabouts here. Music is supposed to be good and diverse, but good first of all. Let that be the core of my post. Good being that what most people in a general audience consider quality, consisting of pleasing sounds against the listening ear, and meaningful lyrical content accompanied by the occasional carefree message. Statistics prove us that it's these elements in music what draws the biggest audience. The biggest problem with Hip Pop is that it's tuneless. It's political poetry, but sound-wise it's empty. And by all means I mean Hip Pop: a rapper like Flo-Rida is Hip Hop mixed with Pop. And certainly when singers start mixing it in their sound. It mostly talks about the rap/sung combinations, but also to those who rap about nothing against a cheap beat with all the band sound clichés the genre brings with it. This sound consists of too many flaws in appalling noise and overall emptiness. The music is extremely easy to create as each and everyone of us have proven several times by now. You and I could create a Soulja Boy record in a heartbeat if we were to set our minds to it. It's just a scam to me. But above all it doesn't deliver the musical essence. You label the current Billboard #1: Empire State Of Mind by Jay-Z Feat. Alicia Keys as good. I agree with you to a certain extent. This is an example where the Pop Rap combination works, at least as far as it gets. It's because of the message of Alicia Keys's vocals and Jay-Z's clever lyrics with shout outs to Robert de Niro, Frank Sinatra, McDonald's, heck even Billboard itself and what not, connecting with New York or basically any city people and fans of the persons and brands mentioned, including their association. But above all it's Alicia Keys's catchy soulful chorus which draws a bigger audience. Yes, that's where the Soul comes from, Alicia has it alright IMO. While Empire State Of Mind does possess the poetry and flow of words it hasn't got the political aspect Hip Hop is known for. Most likely because Sean, Jay-Z himself has climbed up the social ladder. You might argue it's the underlying message, but it doesn't deal with that anymore. Sean has made the American dream with his music and that's what it's about. The combination of Hip Hop with Pop makes it Hip Pop once more nonetheless. This is a carefree lyric which makes it just flow of words against a beat. So if that's what you call Hip Hop it fits the genre. That's for you to decide, Afrika Bambaata's Planet Rock comes to mind which is also mentioned in this song here. But mind you: it's more than that. As you say genre-crossing, that's what it is. I hear traditional Pop, Jazz in the vein of Sinatra here. So let it be clear that I don't consider this song in particular any less than classic Hip Hop. Its art is elsewhere. Songs like these are the best efforts in what you can do with combinations. It's this given, this art which is its appeal. From there the #1 positions is just promo. Because let's be honest: they promoted the hell out of this song in the states. It's on the radio all the time and they shot what's probably gonna be the best music video of 2009 to make it score in that department just the same. Try doing this with other music for a change. All tags aside Hip Hop is taken to the limit now and there isn't anymore stretch. Its art is lyrical. The music of merely sped up talk against a beat hasn't got enough appeal, nor variety in sound to cover an international demand of music. Hip Pop, nor Hip Hop can cover it all. Like you say: it was something different at the time in the 80's and 90's. No longer. It can occasionally be featured in commercial music, but should no longer be the main focus. Which means: back to how it used to be. With stating how Hip Hop music gave a voice to the voiceless you're starting the apartheid issue. This is the political aspect of Hip Hop I'm talking about. That's what it's liked for. The music could be whatever, but that political aspect makes those who it regards identify with the music. That's where I'm coming from when I say they should pair these political issues more often in commercial music as a whole. Because after all: isn't that what we all want on the radio? That what keeps us busy in the world? That way music could make a difference again. Which means combining the lyrical art of Hip Hop with the art of sound from other genres. Melodic and meaningful: an essence covered. Because apart from the ever lacking quality issue there isn't much diversity in a Pop Rap industry. The industry has been selling this music all throughout the decade now and it doesn't appeal to everyone. In other words: it isn't reflective of a general audience. I don't mind an occasional song like this, but there has got to be something else as well. I'm always against a one-dimensional state of mind, so I'm against this. Well then, who's that general audience I've been talking about all through my post? You barely see them on here, do you? It's people on the streets who are excluded from music as of now. It's people on other forums enjoying past music stating how the current state of the music industry doesn't appeal to them. And I would actually include myself to that group considering I've hardly enjoyed a single commercial record throughout the past decade. Most don't talk as they can't be interested in discussing the matter. They just listen to their own music regardless of what's in the charts. Which brings me back to my initial point: the current industry does not represent people's choice. The people who have their radios turned off need to be interested in music again. This would require a change of climate first of all. Oh, and Leona working with the biggest songwriters of the moment is just her doing her commercial act. Aren't we all? Now a lot of these people are actually talented here IMO. Only whenever an industry displays solely those who aren't all that, but big because they match a certain profile the industry is selling it doesn't work. You'll only catch minority groups who are promoted into the matter for names, numbers and definitions. Everyone else you can forget about. Which is pretty much the definition Pop Rap industry in my point of view. You have a point here though. I would also most strongly recommend artists to work with different people, rather than just those who happen to have productions in the current Top 40. This means past producers, new talent, the lot. There you go, everything in my opinion.
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BrokenArrow
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Post by BrokenArrow on Nov 24, 2009 15:10:40 GMT -5
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starr
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Post by starr on Nov 24, 2009 16:43:13 GMT -5
HITS
13 LEONA LEWIS J RECORDS/RMG 68,413 -- ECHO
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Post by Live Your Life on Nov 24, 2009 16:46:26 GMT -5
That's actually not too bad.
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Flare
Charting
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Post by Flare on Nov 24, 2009 19:20:03 GMT -5
Great sales all things considered. After Happy I expected much lower (around 20k or something) so I'm pleasantly surprised.
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benmcd2000
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Post by benmcd2000 on Nov 24, 2009 23:25:48 GMT -5
HITS 13 LEONA LEWIS J RECORDS/RMG 68,413 -- ECHO After a number one debut last release, this is not a very good sign. Chalk it up to a lack of real promotion by the record label on the first single and an album with a bunch of second-rate songs. She should get into the studio fast, record some hits and re-release!
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tsw2008
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Post by tsw2008 on Nov 25, 2009 1:34:32 GMT -5
HITS 13 LEONA LEWIS J RECORDS/RMG 68,413 -- ECHO After a number one debut last release, this is not a very good sign. Chalk it up to a lack of real promotion by the record label on the first single and an album with a bunch of second-rate songs. She should get into the studio fast, record some hits and re-release! Chalk it up to a lack of a hit single. Spirit was fueled by a monster hit. Happy is a....Top 50 hit. It has nothing to do with "a bunch of second rate song" as you put it. If she had a hit like Jordin Sparks did yet still sold poorly (48K in her case) I would be worried then. As it is her sales are pretty good all things considered. Majority of commercial pop artists like Leona rely on casual fans, pop fans are fickle. If you have a hit you sell, if you don't...well then your album sales take a hit. You can see it doesn't matter if you are Mariah, Shakira, etc...both well established artists who sold millions in the past....but without a real hit single both are underpefroming like Leona. Even Rihanna who sold well over 2 million in the US with GGGB and has 10 Top 10 hits is going to underperfrom due to a lack of a big hit. RR is only a midsize hit. Promotion is good, it has everything to do with a lack or airplay and a lack of a hit. She needs to release I Got You ASAP and hope it takes off.
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BrokenArrow
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Post by BrokenArrow on Nov 25, 2009 4:22:14 GMT -5
Pre-sale priority tickets on sale today for O2 customers from 9am !
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LeonaLewis
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Post by LeonaLewis on Nov 25, 2009 6:19:52 GMT -5
Got mine for the MEN! So happy! Great seats aswell!
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starr
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Post by starr on Nov 25, 2009 12:52:58 GMT -5
Billboard 200 chart for issue date 12/5/09
13) Leona Lewis – Echo – 67,260
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S_Bunny
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Post by S_Bunny on Nov 25, 2009 13:49:24 GMT -5
Thanks for posting starr, not much difference from the sales from HDD and Billboard. Kimmel tonight, can't wait to have a HQ performance of OMH!
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Post by yourstar830 on Nov 25, 2009 18:10:05 GMT -5
HIP POP? You're talking out of your A**. Enlighten please. Resorting to insults without backing it up is rather cheap, don't you think? Today's definition Urban = R&B/Hip Hop = Hip Hop Pop = Hip Pop = I repeat: soulless R&B with Pop music sensibilities and Rap music beats. This is not R&B, nor Hip Hop. It doesn't possess the soul of R&B, and it doesn't possess the lyrical art of Hip Hop. I conclude: this music, this sound regardless of what we call it is the problem to the music industry crisis. Way I see it. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hip%20PopYou're absolutely correct. It was a crude and unnecessary response for which I apologize. I was in a bad mood and let it come out in my post. No excuse, I shouldnt have posted on a subject on which I know nothing about. Hope you can accept my apology.
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BrokenArrow
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Post by BrokenArrow on Nov 25, 2009 18:56:01 GMT -5
Happy sold 65,000 downloads last week in the US and its #31 on the HOT100 this week.
Amazing considering zero airplay.
Its #15 on the Billboard digital chart.
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starr
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Post by starr on Nov 26, 2009 1:09:47 GMT -5
Leona performed two songs on Jimmy Kimmel Live. The first was "Happy" and the second song was "Outta My Head." The show went off the air before she was able to finish "Outta My Head." The full performance of "Outta My Head" should be posted later at jimmykimmellive.net
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Nov 26, 2009 8:51:31 GMT -5
I was getting so into her performance of "Happy" and then she just cut the high note AGAIN. I understand she was sick before, but her voice does sound like it's back to perfect condition. Was it taped around the time she was sick, because that would make sense...
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BrokenArrow
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Post by BrokenArrow on Nov 26, 2009 8:54:09 GMT -5
I was getting so into her performance of "Happy" and then she just cut the high note AGAIN. I understand she was sick before, but her voice does sound like it's back to perfect condition. Was it taped around the time she was sick, because that would make sense... Yes it was taped a few days ago. Bad luck to get that right in the middle of promo, but at least shes trying to sing live and just cutting out the big notes. As long as she shows her face and looks pretty, thats about all she can do ATM. That 20 sec appearance presenting on the AMA's generated 100 pages of tweets from young horny men describing what they would like to do with her. lol
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S_Bunny
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Post by S_Bunny on Nov 26, 2009 13:20:56 GMT -5
Happy and Full OMH on Kimmel!!!
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QAF
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Post by QAF on Nov 26, 2009 16:24:59 GMT -5
I think the fact that they painted Leona to be the next Mariah really hurt her in the long run when she obviously didn't deliver. They shouldn't have been making those kinds of comparisons when she sprang on the scene.
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on Nov 26, 2009 16:33:29 GMT -5
Leona, Maxwell, and Carrie sound KILLER on CNN Heroes from the clips I've heard.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Nov 26, 2009 16:34:07 GMT -5
I think the fact that they painted Leona to be the next Mariah really hurt her in the long run when she obviously didn't deliver. They shouldn't have been making those kinds of comparisons when she sprang on the scene. She just never got the chance to grow and surprise people. Simon et all were calling her 'the best' or 'the new Mariah' practically from day one. If she'd snowballed and been treated with a normal amount of praise and hype there'd be somewhere to go, but she's a point where she's leveling out only two years into her career. It was a big problem I had with her...everyone one was treating her like the second coming, so I just got turned off, but then you watch her and realize how good she is. She is simply a very talented singer with a lot of potential. That sometimes gets/got lost.
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eon
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Post by eon on Nov 26, 2009 17:18:57 GMT -5
Lots of different people from various different backgrounds have compared Leona to Mariah, Whitney, et al. This is what Leona had to say in response:
"Those women are the true divas. They're amazing performers, whom I've listened to for years. These are the people who've inspired me to sing, so it's flattering that I'm being compared to them. But I have a lot of hard work to do first." (Access Hollywood, March 2008)
"No one is 'the next' anyone, especially if that person is still here, doing their thing, as she [Mariah] clearly is. The comparisons people have made to me are so flattering, but I think it's insensitive to the people I'm compared to." (Rolling Stone magazine, May 2008)
And people need to lighten up. Echo undoubtedly has gotten off to a slow start, but the way some people are talking here, you would be forgiven for believing this era is over before it has barely started.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Nov 26, 2009 18:07:12 GMT -5
Exactly, she never said any of these things. And she seems mega-modest and grounded, and the last person likely to employ such hyperbole.
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BrokenArrow
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Post by BrokenArrow on Nov 26, 2009 18:47:22 GMT -5
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QAF
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Post by QAF on Nov 26, 2009 20:32:02 GMT -5
I never meant to imply that it was Leona who was comparing herself to Mariah and some of the other greats. It was the people behind her. I'm well aware that Leona is a very sweet and down to earth girl. I'm not really into her music but I do like her and I do enjoy some of her songs. Bleeding Love is NOT one of them though. LOL!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2009 2:01:57 GMT -5
Loved the OMH performance on Kimmel! That song is hot! I really hope it catches on, because I think it could sell the album. Her opening numbers here in the states suck, but if OMY catches on, she could still get gold, and who know's if a 3rd single smashes platinum could be in view.
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SHOOTER
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Post by SHOOTER on Nov 27, 2009 2:48:22 GMT -5
I was listening to some of the new album today and a couple songs kinda grew on me. I'm still not in love nor heavily in like with it but I can definitely tell it's better than her debut.
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BrokenArrow
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Post by BrokenArrow on Nov 27, 2009 5:53:00 GMT -5
They've added 3 new tour dates today.
Tickets went on general sale today at 9:30, the 1st O2 date in London sold out instantly. There's a few rubbish seats available on the Wed 16th date.
Good to see she can sell out 20,000 seat venues.
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©!nful
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Post by ©!nful on Nov 27, 2009 11:06:44 GMT -5
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megataff
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Post by megataff on Nov 27, 2009 15:00:25 GMT -5
She looks really HOT here....thanks!
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