pen
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Post by pen on Mar 26, 2009 15:03:09 GMT -5
First single from If These Scars Could Talk, album comes out April 14th through Wind-Up. This is the new project of Joey Culver from Atomship, and even though this band isn't as experimental as Atomship, I admit I kind of missed his voice. Pretty solid stuff. You can hear the single and four other songs here. www.myspace.com/papercutmassacreShame it probably won't do much. I think they're releasing it too soon to really push it. Oh well.
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Crushcrushchris
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Post by Crushcrushchris on Mar 26, 2009 19:25:44 GMT -5
This kind of reminds me of when Wind-up put out Megan McCauley's album (the same week as Seether's last one). It had a single, but it was never really out there. But at least she had an appearance on Dr. Phil.
These guys have nothing of the sort.
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 26, 2009 19:34:07 GMT -5
Papercut Massacre isn't even mentioned on Wind-Up's own website. Poor form, boys. Poor form.
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Post by American Idiot on Mar 26, 2009 22:33:12 GMT -5
Not a bad song. It sounds like plenty of other stuff I've heard from other bands before though. I could see it doing some decent damage on Active Rock.
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Post by My Life Is A Stereo on Mar 27, 2009 0:25:37 GMT -5
This song is pretty good BUT its not original at all, I'm pretty sure I've heard this song about 200-300 times....
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 27, 2009 10:19:16 GMT -5
This is decent. I don't think it'll do well though. This sounds like what woulda done well at active rock 5 years ago, but not now. Too nu-metal not Cock rock enough. I think active rock wouldn't allow a song in 6/8 time to chart well. Anyway, as has been said, this song isn't very original, but compared to most of what's on the active rock chart now and other current nu-metal clones like the new Evans Blue, I'd say this is stand out stuff. Kinda like The Veer Union's "Seasons" which woulda been a #1 on active rock 5 or 6 years ago, but not now.
The fact that "4" is a substitute for the word "for" rather than a quantity knocks the song down a couple pegs into the somewhat cheesy realm. The opening riff is cool.
And apparently "Pink Lighted Suicide" on their myspace is also in the same key, roughly the same tempo, and in 6/8. Lame. "Curse Of The Broken Heart" is also in 6/8, but it's easily the best song on their myspace. The riffs and the piano are really well done.
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PHOBES
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Post by PHOBES on Mar 27, 2009 13:47:55 GMT -5
I fail to see why a song's time signature dictates whether it's good or not. God knows there are enough 4/4 songs out there.
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Nicholas2.0
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Post by Nicholas2.0 on Mar 27, 2009 14:56:30 GMT -5
I fail to see why a song's time signature dictates whether it's good or not. God knows there are enough 4/4 songs out there. I don't know about you, but I could go the rest of my life without hearing a new Chevelle single in 6/8 time at 90-100 bpm. The more you deviate from 4/4 or 6/8 in rock & roll the harder it gets for listeners to wrap their minds around and naturally find the beat. That being said, the more you lean on 6/8, because it naturally feels slower since you have 6 beats per measure with heavy emphasis on 1 & 4 (3 beats apart), the duller your subsequent music comes off.
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PHOBES
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Post by PHOBES on Mar 27, 2009 23:20:57 GMT -5
I get what you're saying, but to be honest I just don't see how it makes that big of a difference. I recognize that songs that have 6/8 time typically sound slower, but I just can't see how or why that would turn anyone off immediately.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 28, 2009 16:08:40 GMT -5
The fact that the song is in 6/8 isn't a good or a bad thing, but as Nick hinted at, 6/8 loses its charm when every song by an artist is in 6/8.
And some examples of some faster 6/8 songs that don't drag at all, Breaking Benjamin - "Until The End" (in the fast part, in the slow parts it's a 12-beat shuffle), Rammstein - "Kein Lust", Thousand Foot Krutch - "Falls Apart," Ra - "Don't Turn Away" among others. Ra - "Don't Turn Away" is seriously one of the best songs ever.
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 28, 2009 16:31:25 GMT -5
I must be one of the few people that doesn't really pay attention to a song's time signature.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Mar 28, 2009 20:34:23 GMT -5
I must be one of the few people that doesn't really pay attention to a song's lyrics. Unless they're absolutely incredible or atrocious (in an obvious enough way that I notice).
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pen
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Post by pen on Mar 28, 2009 20:50:01 GMT -5
I pay attention, but I don't put as large of a focus on it if the music is good in other ways.
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Nicholas2.0
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Post by Nicholas2.0 on Mar 29, 2009 2:41:15 GMT -5
I must be one of the few people that doesn't really pay attention to a song's lyrics. Unless they're absolutely incredible or atrocious (in an obvious enough way that I notice). *Raises hand* Ooh, ooh! Right here with you on that one!
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on May 15, 2009 11:06:39 GMT -5
This song has outperformed my expectations considering how few people know these guys and how few myspace plays they have, but I think it may have reached its peak on active at #47 as it falls to #49 this week. 47 49 PAPERCUT MASSACRE Left 4 Dead 173 167 6 0.5 At least it did better than the new Evans Blue song.
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pen
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Post by pen on May 15, 2009 12:14:29 GMT -5
At least it did better than the new Evans Blue song. That's what's important. ;) But really, Wind-Up hasn't been promoting these guys at all. They only just recently added the band to their website and the song never went for official adds anywhere. I dunno, it's almost like Wind-Up is embarrassed to still have these guys. I mean Joey Culver was from Atomship four years ago, and this project has been in the works since then.
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Post by onefrayedrepublic on May 17, 2009 1:40:02 GMT -5
Two questions:
1) How do you determine time signature--how would an untrained ear try to pick it up? 2) What time signature is Fair To Midland's "Dance of the Manatee" in?
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on May 17, 2009 1:59:58 GMT -5
Well the denominator of a time signature is kinda arbitrary if you don't know music, and is often based on conventions. The numerator is how many beats are in a measure. The denominator is the note value that corresponds to exactly one beat. The most common time signature is 4/4. 4/4 means that there are 4 beats in a measure, and the quarter note takes the beat. 6/8 means that there are six beats in a measure and an 8th note corresponds to the beat. Denominators are always powers of 2. If a whole note takes the beat, the denominator is 1. If a half note takes the beat, the denominator is 2. And so on with 4, 8, and 16.
Fair To Midland's "Dance Of The Manatee" is in the standard 4/4 time. In the opening, each chord is a quarter note and there's four of them. If you keep counting 1-2-3-4 at the tempo set by those chords, you'll realize the whole song is dictated by that tempo.
Their other single "Tall Tales Taste Like Sour Grapes" is in 6/8. There are 6 beats in a cycle, but the beats are twice as fast which is why the denominator is based on 8th notes rather than quarter notes. You may not hear the 6 beats, but rather hear it as 1-2-3-4 with the kick drum on 1 and 3 and snare on 2 and 4. Instead, count it as kick on 1, snare on 4 when you count 1-2-3-4-5-6 and you'll hear the 6/8 in "Tall Tales" as well as in "Left 4 Dead." In the verse and chorus of "Tall Tales" the hat cymbal is hit every eight note, so count 6 of those per cycle.
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Post by onefrayedrepublic on May 17, 2009 23:42:20 GMT -5
Thanks. I played piano for 10 years so I'm familiar with the concept but I have trouble hearing it. I can hear it in the Fair To Midland songs after your excellent discriptions. I'm disappointed a progressive rock band wouldn't mix it up a bit. 4/4 and 6/8... how unprogressive.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on May 18, 2009 0:31:57 GMT -5
There is more to being progressive than a time signature. That said, the bridge of "April Fools And Eggmen" is in 7/4
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Nicholas2.0
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Post by Nicholas2.0 on May 18, 2009 2:45:31 GMT -5
I played piano for 10 years so I'm familiar with the concept but I have trouble hearing it. ??? I don't understand how a person who played piano for 10 years could have trouble hearing time signatures. I just don't get how that's possible after 10 years' musical experience. Is there any more you could further explain about that?
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Post by onefrayedrepublic on May 18, 2009 12:25:31 GMT -5
I never could play by ear--I could only play songs if I had the sheet music in front of me. Even if I hear a song hundreds of times (thinking of Stop & Stare in particular) I still need sheet music to play it.
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pen
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Post by pen on May 18, 2009 13:21:35 GMT -5
I never could play by ear--I could only play songs if I had the sheet music in front of me. Even if I hear a song hundreds of times (thinking of Stop & Stare in particular) I still need sheet music to play it. I think what Nick is getting at is that time signatures have nothing to do with playing anything by ear, it has to do with being able to count beats in a measure. Which if you've spent a lot of time with that sort of thing, shouldn't be hard to pick it out of a song if you listen for it.
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PHOBES
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Post by PHOBES on May 18, 2009 18:57:36 GMT -5
Yeah, typically the only problem I have is with 3/4 and 6/8, and that's only occasional. Then again, they're pretty much the same if you're just going by ear.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on May 18, 2009 19:41:45 GMT -5
3/4 and 6/8 are also arbitrary. They really are the same. There are drum beats that tend to go with each such as a kick on 1 and a snare on 4 of 6/8. But the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 is purely idiomatic, as they're essentially the same thing.
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pen
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Post by pen on May 18, 2009 19:48:06 GMT -5
In math as well as music.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on May 18, 2009 19:48:24 GMT -5
That happens a lot.
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PHOBES
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Post by PHOBES on May 18, 2009 20:04:38 GMT -5
Yeah, typically if they're the same ratio then they're virtually identical. I had a band instructor in high school that counted 2/4 time in 6/12, it was a bit confusing to say the least.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on May 18, 2009 20:08:01 GMT -5
What's a 12th note? An eighth note triplet? And was he trying to do it to emphasize a 2 against 3 polyrhythm? If not, I got nothin.
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PHOBES
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Post by PHOBES on May 18, 2009 20:23:55 GMT -5
A believe it would be a triplet on the quarter note, since a quarter note equals three-twelfths. Basically, in a standard 2/4, you could have just two quarter notes per measure. But the way this was structured, each quarter note would count as three beats And by dividing three-twelfths by three, you get one-twelfth. Thus, the note would (essentially) be a 12th note, lol. It's kinda weird but I don't know how else to explain it.
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