Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Mar 1, 2006 23:40:32 GMT -5
Yet, there was plenty of Pop music that was equally successful on the A/C charts from that era. Take Streisand's "Guilty" album. Its first three singles reached Top Ten Pop and A/C. But, WLTW does not play any of those songs today. There are several other artists that had A/C hits that were equally, if not more, successful on the Pop charts (e.g. Olivia Newton-John's "Hopelessly Devoted To You" - # 3 Pop, # 7 A/C) that WLTW does not play. If middle aged women want to be reminded of the Top 40 of their youth, those "A/C" artists and songs should be included as well. That's the contradiction of WLTW - they will play Diana Ross' "I'm Coming Out" which never charted A/C in Billboard. Yet, they won't play "Endless Love" or "Theme From Mahogany" which were both #1 Pop and A/C hits. And why isn't WLTW playing some of the schmaltzy balladeers like Barry Manilow or Kenny Rogers that were successful at both Pop and A/C? Aren't these now middle aged women that WLTW is targeting the ones who usually enjoy that type of "gushy" music best? The programmers are probably working on the assumption that the middle-aged women of today were listening to the more upbeat and rockier/dancier/poppier songs in the 70s rather than the softer AC-type songs (which occasionally crossed over to pop but may not have been favorites of the young). As at20fantoo said, in 30 years, they may play Nickelback and Pink and maybe ballads by Jessica Simpson, but they won't play current AC music by Celine Dion or Michael Bublé since they aren't as popular with pop-leaning young women today. But despite the reality, I too would prefer if AC stations dug into their rich catalogue of AC songs from the last few decades, rather than selecting harder songs from 70s and 80s pop or rock charts.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Feb 28, 2006 23:50:19 GMT -5
Speaking of what is considered AC, I was listening to an AC station today (not WLTW) and the DJ said, "The new 'Hoobastank' CD hits stores soon. It will be nice to hear something new from them." LOL, as if the average AC listener would flock out to buy the next Hoobastank album.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Mar 1, 2006 1:04:06 GMT -5
Sounds to me like just a way for music and record companies to make more money off of a song by prohibiting it from being played on too many formats and then releasing it later as "new". The record companies don't prohibit a song from being played on more than one format, though they can choose which song to put money into and advertise to radio stations. If you look from their perspective, they don't want to release two Keith Urban songs at once since it might hinder the success of both (and to some AC listeners who take a LONG time to become used to a single new song). They'd probably want to choose the one that has more potential. With "Making Memories Of Us", I'm guessing that AC music directors decided to pick that as a follow-up to "You'll Think Of Me" before "Tonight I Wanna Cry" was even released. Now, there's no point in promoting both. If music directors in charge of AC stations WANTED to get behind "Tonight I Wanna Cry", they could. It's ultimately up to them (though usually, the record companies initiate the process by having the song available to stations of a particular format). But with the 1-2 songs AC stations add per month (or even less), there isn't room for multiple songs by the same artist. They would also need to test the song out with AC listeners before going ahead. That's how it works, I think.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Feb 26, 2006 16:47:11 GMT -5
I understand that, and that's definitely a good explanation. I was referring more so to the moment when the MD first determines the song from a while ago is finally 'familiar'. More of a hypothetical thing, but thanks for responding! I'm guessing it has to do with the proliferation of the Jack/Bob stations, and competing AC stations are testing some of those rockier songs from the 80s for inclusion on their playlist. If the songs test well, then they are added, even if they sound jarring. That was what happened in my city.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Feb 17, 2006 3:06:47 GMT -5
Each chart is compiled using data from the stations that play music of that particular format.
So the AC chart ONLY includes play data from stations that play AC-type music. For example, the #13 song this week on the AC chart is the 13th most played current song among AC stations ONLY.
Likewise, the Hot AC chart ONLY includes play data from stations that are labelled Hot AC because of the music they play. These stations "report" to the chart magazine for inclusion in the Hot AC chart, so that's why I used the term "reporter stations" above.
And yes, songs that are played on both AC stations and Hot AC stations will be at different positions on the two charts depending on how much each type of station is playing that song. "Photograph" is very low on the AC chart because few AC stations are playing the song (it could be considered too hard for some stations).
Even though "Making Memories of Us" has been playing on country stations for a long time, AC stations only added it recently (ie, it's still a very new song to AC radio stations). AC often doesn't add country songs until AFTER they've been a proven hit at country, because AC radio station music directors need to be sure their listeners are likely to take well to the song (Keith Urban is also a relatively new artist to AC listeners, who only know him for "You'll Think of Me").
As mentioned above, the AC chart tends to keep songs for a lot longer because these types of station play less new music, and listeners don't get bored of songs as quickly.
Once the song goes below a certain number (I forgot what the AC recurrent rule is), the song will be deemed old enough to be removed from the chart.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Feb 17, 2006 0:57:03 GMT -5
AC, Hot AC and Pop are all radio formats. Each describes a certain type of radio station with a certain mix of music. For each format, a group of reporter radio stations contribute to a chart, which list songs based on the total number of times they were played that week.
AC focuses on older songs from the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, and "today". AC stations do not play hard rock, and has more soft or middle-of-the-road type songs. AC is one of the few formats that will still play older artists' new releases. Though AC stations do play some new music from the past year, these newer songs are not played as often and so they last a lot longer on the chart.
Hot AC also plays some older songs from the 80s and 90s, but they also play songs from today (proportion depends on the station). The current songs they play are almost all pop-rock or light rock, with a sprinkle of pure pop and once in a blue moon, an R&B song. Hot AC stations do not play rap.
Pop plays almost exclusively new music, with each song played almost excessively (many times per day). Pop takes songs from the major genres: rock, alternative, pop-rock, dance, R&B, hip-hop, rap (and very rarely, country), in addition to pure pop.
On any chart, currents are songs that are relatively new (usually, they are currents as they rise and begin to fall). If currents stick around for a certain length of time (determined by the recurrent rule, usually 20 weeks above #20 on the chart), they are deemed "recurrents" (ie, songs which were currents recently), and these songs are removed from the chart. This is to make way for newer songs. Often, recurrents are still played a lot. Once a song is a few years old, it is considered a gold.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Mar 3, 2006 0:17:05 GMT -5
There are so many American Idol viewers. Strange that they wouldn't latch onto this song since the person is already so familiar to them.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Feb 24, 2006 22:29:10 GMT -5
She's on The View right now lip-syncing to "My Heart Will Go On", and she's doing it really really badly. She needs to stop performing that song. Why is she lip-syncing? She seems to be one of the more consistent singers in live performances. "I Believe in You" only had 54 spins this week on the Mediabase AC/HAC combined chart , while "Dance with My Father" had 8 spins. That's pretty sad for songs that officially went for adds.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Jan 20, 2006 2:41:00 GMT -5
What on earth... she has two songs going for adds this week, neither from her own album:
Celine Dion "Dance With My Father" Il Divo & Celine Dion "I Believe In You (Je Crois En Toi)"
How do you think these will do? "In Some Small Way", "Beautiful Boy", "Miracle", "You & I" and "Stand By Your Side" all had disappointing chart runs (at least compared with her usual AC chart performance). I suppose part of that could be due to the overplay of "Have You Ever Been In Love". Most of the singles from "A New Day Has Come" faltered too, when the lead single was played so frequently.
I'm not sure how piecemeal songs like this will do. It seems a little too soon after the original "Dance with My Father" to release another rendition. The Il Divo song is a little different, so that one's a wildcard.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Jan 16, 2006 1:54:04 GMT -5
This has been the case in the past, since AC is so slow at picking up new music. Songs are often recurrents in pop, or Hot AC, or their originating format before AC music directors decide the song might have potential at AC (they often need songs to be "proven" first).
With Keith Urban, stations may just be looking for a possible follow-up for "You'll Think of Me".
LeAnn Rimes used to release songs pretty close together to country and AC, but I am guessing the delay on this song is because of the backlash she got at country for focusing on other formats.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Mar 15, 2006 23:05:44 GMT -5
Will this song go to Hot AC after it's run here? I noticed it was already getting some play on Hot AC stations... If Hot AC music directors are open to it, and/or if the record company decides to push the song to Hot AC as well. I suppose that's what happened with "You'll Think of Me". It helps that Hot AC has played music by LeAnn Rimes before.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Feb 13, 2006 22:13:45 GMT -5
Could this possibly go top 5? No. 1? Find out December 2007. ;)
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Jan 22, 2006 0:28:47 GMT -5
What is the average life of a top 5 AC tune? I think a good average for a Country top 5 is probably 22-24 weeks. Just wondering what we can expect for this song. Michael Buble's "Home" (currently #3) moved into the top 5 in April 2005. So that's like 40 weeks and counting...
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Jan 9, 2006 21:33:45 GMT -5
She was fairly popular on AC a couple of years ago, and hopefully, this song will be added based on name.
Is she putting out an AC remix? The song doesn't really need one, but it's always interesting to hear the difference. Plus she probably doesn't want to get back to trying too hard on non-country formats.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Dec 31, 2005 0:50:27 GMT -5
I know that in my city, the main AC station ratings dropped two or three years ago, but now it has pulled back up. I personally find the current playlist to be stale and boring (few new adds, including some overplayed rockier hits from the 80s and 90s to compete with the Jack station), but they have solid audience numbers.
I think the situation is more dire with CHR/Pop, when more and more teens are turning to downloading music and listening to their own mixes on their mp3 players. AC's audience will still turn on the radio when they get into the car, and there's no other format that plays softer hits for those who think there's too much rock on Jack-type stations, or Hot AC stations.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Dec 28, 2005 18:29:58 GMT -5
Rob Thomas is certainly not garbage... LOL, I don't think Jeffster likes him much (I think he's the one from the old R&R board?).
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Dec 28, 2005 16:05:34 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with upbeat songs. The problem is these radio programmers have a different idea of "upbeat", they usually just mean rockier. They ignore plenty of upbeat songs, like for instance Barry Manilow's "Sweet Heaven" and upbeat gold songs like Go West's "Faithful" and Martin Page's "In The House Of Stone And Light" in favor of stuff like Maroon 5 and Hoobastank. Yeah, that is true. Pop-rock songs have always been around, but they used to stay under the Top 20 (like Creed or the Goo Goo Dolls for the most part). Matchbox Twenty and later Train seemed to start a wave of pop-rock songs on the AC chart that is still prevalent today. My local AC station is all about "a BRIGHTER mix", but all that means is more of the songs already heard on Hot AC or Pop. There are quite a few older artists that are only played on AC now (even shunned by Hot AC), and it is a shame their songs are ignored in favor of songs already "proven" at other formats.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Dec 4, 2005 15:15:57 GMT -5
The invasion of the Christmas music on the chart is quite fun to watch.
I sure hope Santana and Michelle Branch don't reach #1... what a bore. But with the lack of any real contenders near the top (not counting the repeat #1s), it is likely. I'm not optimistic next year will be any different in terms of chart movement.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Nov 29, 2005 0:32:57 GMT -5
Yes, AC stations are removed from the panel as soon as they go all-Christmas. Thanks for answering my questions. :) So does this mean that any Christmas song that makes the R&R AC chart would be from stations that have NOT gone All-Christmas, but are just playing the occasional Christmas song? Are All-Christmas stations removed from the Mediabase link for AC - R&R Panel? Or does R&R do this manually?
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Nov 28, 2005 20:34:30 GMT -5
Does R&R remove All-Christmas stations from the panel for the holiday season, or do they remain? I'm guessing they stay but I just want to make sure.
My other question is - are Christmas songs generally considered current only in their first year out? I know there have been some exceptions where Christmas songs have been re-released.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Nov 21, 2005 0:14:13 GMT -5
I noticed that despite the spin totals beginning to decrease for a number of songs, Jim Brickman and Wayne Brady's "Beautiful" has increased by over 200 spins, even on the all Christmas stations! Is there a Christmas version of the song? Yes, there is a Christmas version of this song. It's on the Disney Princess Christmas album. They probably made another minor change to the lyrics. Talk about going the extra mile with this song... first the All-4-One collaboration, then changing the name and adding the Cinderella references with Wayne Brady singing, and now, the very special Christmas version. Jim Brickman did a Christmas version of "Your Love" with Michelle Wright as well.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Nov 14, 2005 20:25:15 GMT -5
Lifehouse can really have a chance. As Mega248 said, rock songs generally benefit as the softer ACs switch to All-Christmas, leaving the ones that play more pop-rock.
With that said, the increase may not be enough to top Rob Thomas or Michael Buble.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Feb 25, 2006 18:39:15 GMT -5
I fell out of my seat reading this thread. Can you really picture middle-aged soccor moms going there with Mariah's thugette bridge? Mariah Carey is no stranger to AC, and this song fits in with no problem. I too doubt it will do much, due to "We Belong Together".
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Oct 29, 2005 19:17:28 GMT -5
How exactly did Casey word this on AT10? In order to include "Smooth", he would have had to allude to the Pop chart, and in the story I'm guessing he edited out 3AM and Bent in naming MB20's 2 AC #1's. Is that how he did it? Yep, he referred to the performance of "Smooth" on the Pop chart. He used "Unwell" as an example of a #1 with Matchbox Twenty, and then he segued into "Lonely No More".
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Oct 23, 2005 1:08:07 GMT -5
I've realized the difference between All-4-One's "Beautiful as You" and this latest incarnation of the song.
Jim Brickman has changed the second verse to include lyrics about dancing, midnight and Cinderella. Did he write the original version with "Cinderella" in mind, or did he rewrite the lyrics with "Cinderella" in mind?
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Oct 12, 2005 18:15:08 GMT -5
I thought that song was titled "Beautiful As U"? Anyways, since when does AC care about charting the same song again and again? Have you seen how many remakes succeed here? Yeah, I remember that title too, but it's still the same song. Obviously true about remakes on AC, but the All4One version was recent and I was mostly expressing my disappointment in Jim Brickman for the retread.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Oct 7, 2005 14:41:09 GMT -5
Oh good grief, not again. Jim Brickman already charted this one on the AC chart with the All-4-One version that reception mentioned. It helps that AC stations no longer play that version, so this is like, brand new again.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Sept 29, 2005 21:55:39 GMT -5
Like.. whats the official chart Is there one? sorry im very new. But like if you were to talk about being #1 on the AC Charts.. would it be Billboard or R&R. Billboard is better known publicly (in part due to their widely accepted album and single charts), but radio professionals in particular regard Radio and Records very highly. If someone said #1 on the AC chart, the person would have to specify whether Billboard Monitor (which uses BDS) or R&R (which uses Mediabase 24/7). The #1s tend to be similar on the two charts, though not always.
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Sept 25, 2005 17:20:19 GMT -5
What do you think the chances of Kelly having four songs on the AC chart are? I myself think the chances are good, since it doesn't look like "Breakaway" will be going recurrent anytime soon and "Since U Been Gone" is still remaining steady in the mid-20s. That'll probably happen as long as airplay endures at Hot AC-leaning stations that report as AC. I am so bored of "Breakaway" and "Since U Been Gone". I hope AC stations decide to skip straight from "Breakaway" to "Because of You" while it's still "new".
|
|
Arson
Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 1,372
|
Post by Arson on Aug 24, 2005 11:55:39 GMT -5
It wasn't the song hitting AC radio that hurt Faith; it was the fact that they fit AC radio better than country radio. " I think that is it. As long as she doesn't actively pursue pop/AC or write a blatantly pop/AC album, she shouldn't alienate her country fanbase. Same with LeAnn Rimes. I wonder if AC radio likes Faith Hill enough to chart her songs without having them officially released.
|
|