Marooned@Midnight
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Post by Marooned@Midnight on Jul 9, 2014 18:25:29 GMT -5
I've tried my best to stay out of this, what I consider to be, absolutely pointless discussion. However, this I can't let slide. Whatever you consider her to be - a good vocalist, a horrible singer, a music mogul, a vapid prom queen - arguing that she contributes nothing to her songs is just plain ignorant. It shows ignorance of what countless producers have attested to over the years. And it shows an ignorance of how pop music and pop culture work. As if someone could be so successful for so long by having no talent and contributing nothing to her music. I'm sure if someone else had sang Baby, Slave, Toxic, Til The World Ends...that they would have been just as huge, iconic and legendary. Please. That's not even getting into the majority of her discography, which is SO VERY BRITNEY that I can't imagine anyone else even singing most of the songs, much less finding success while doing so. And for the record, I love Britney's voice. There's no one else that can emote a song like she can. I love the tone and inflections in her vocal instrumentation. I think she CAN be a great singer, even in the traditional sense of the word, Alien "vocals" be damned. Just my two cents. With all due respect, the term "manufactured pop star" was born out of truth and Britney epitomizes it more than anyone I can think of at the moment. Let's just agree to disagree. And what "manufactured pop star's" career spans almost two decades and counting? If Britney epitomizes the term, it's only because they have been manufactured to be Britney clones. #OriginalDoll Obviously, we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Keelzit
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Post by Keelzit on Jul 9, 2014 18:47:02 GMT -5
Call her talentless, robot, etc but I'm not aware of any other manufactured pop star who's sold over 100 million records, has had multiple sold-out tours, a successful Vegas residency, is able to sell perfume bottles just by tacking her name onto the box like it's nothing and has 15 year old music videos reaching 100 million views on the world's biggest video platform aka youtube. Oh boy she's tricked us all!
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circadian
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alone and undisturbed
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Post by circadian on Jul 9, 2014 19:43:42 GMT -5
She's not a singer, we've known that for years. She's an entertainer, and a damn good one. Plus you can't deny her tone is pretty damn unique.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 19:49:26 GMT -5
With all due respect, the term "manufactured pop star" was born out of truth and Britney epitomizes it more than anyone I can think of at the moment. Let's just agree to disagree. With all due respect, this isn't even a matter of opinion. You're just flat out wrong and, as per usual, doing the absolute most to be as unnecessarily negative as possible.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 19:53:34 GMT -5
With all due respect, this isn't even a matter of opinion. You're just flat out wrong and, as per usual, doing the absolute most to be as unnecessarily negative as possible. neverafan :'(
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 19:55:52 GMT -5
I am a big fan of Britney as a pop star but all the things that are being said do not discredit the idea that she was a manufactured pop star in some capacity. All the records sold, the perfume lines, the tours, etc. That doesn't take away from the point that she was definitely in some ways a pop industry puppet. Hell, that article about Original Doll said that even SHE felt like that when working on what is largely considered her greatest and most involved record to date, In The Zone. Just because people liked her doesn't mean she was any less calculated a pop star.
Now, the extent of which is definitely up for debate. I usually like to say that Britney's creativity/input into her career rests somewhere between what the GP thinks of her and how her stans hype her up. The average person then and now probably looks at Britney as a brainless bimbo who was handed songs to "sing" and whose entire image, both musically and aesthetically, was crafted by the powers that be. This is pretty blatantly not true since we know that Britney had a large part in her performances, choosing which songs to sing even if she didn't write them and experimenting with different sounds all on her own. She's gone on record basically her whole career about how much she admired/respected the creative process and she definitely made serious forays into songwriting and being more active a participant in her career as time went on.
However, her stans sometimes like to take what Danja and a few other producers have said about her not taking a third for a word and spin it into Britney being this undiscovered creative mastermind behind all of her records and performances. I see that quote about her not being like Usher and Beyonce slung around ALL the time but I feel like it's gotten so overused that people have started using it to overstate her influence on what she recorded. While Britney definitely wanted to be part of the creative process, and has definitely contributed more than people think she has throughout her career, she has never been the driving force behind her music. Even when she was the executive producer of Blackout, she was picking and choosing sounds that she liked and styles that she wanted to try. Even during In The Zone, I remember reading that she felt very restricted by people's expectations and that she felt like she was being forced to live up to what the label wanted. I think it is very telling how easily she's let her music's quality fall by the wayside in her past few albums because I don't think it meant giving THAT much up.
tldr: IMO, Britney was definitely more talented, creative and involved in her music than she was ever given credit for but it's a little bit of a leap to assume that she was this secret artistic visionary who was the guiding force behind her career the entire time because that's just...not true at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 20:07:39 GMT -5
tldr: IMO, Britney was definitely more talented, creative and involved in her music than she was ever given credit for but it's a little bit of a leap to assume that she was this secret artistic visionary who was the guiding force behind her career the entire time because that's just...not true at all. I don't think anyone is trying to say that Britney was a secret agent pop artist neccessarily, so much as the idea that she is the definition of a "manufactured popstar" is incredibly dated. Or rather, that she always was. Post- Circus, probably, but there was a period where she seemed to have a lot of involvement, credited or otherwise. Do I think we can attribute her legacy entirely to her? Absolutely not, just as you can't attribute any artists legacy entirely to themselves. Are there artists who are more involved than she is? Definitely. Hell, Britney is, for the most part, a moron and I wouldn't have it any other way. That said, I, personally, don't think that warrants anyone acting like the Brit-bot diatribe is somehow valid anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 21:20:44 GMT -5
The fact that Britney wrote what 1 song on the first 2 records and then very few till "The Zone", is what I kinda love about her. The less she was involved the worse her music was to me personally (me). Once she started being more involved is when i feel her music went from "barbie" manufactured to something I loved, she became more interesting, fun. She was also key in other areas from performance and such, but yeah at the start of her career she was a manufactured pop act but that changed long ago. Christina wrote 0 songs her first album, and then started writing in 2002, mind you the more she wrote over the years the more diminished her music became, but reason I bring her up is she never had to face that "manufactured" label, yet she was prettied up, dolled up and served music just the same. I just think feel the more involved Britney became the more i loved and end of the day, she guided her career to much better avenues than others, so the whole notion she is dumb falls flat with me. She knew what would make her the icon she became and she knew what people expected of her. That is why she is who she is today and while other are well, them. QAF aka neverafanofanything. You ask how people can say she wasn't a great singer but are here for her music, songs and such. I think you mistake overall talent as equalling a voice, I think you're mistaken period but if you look through history there are many artists held in pristine legacy who didnt lead with a vocal, i.e Michael Jackson, Janet, hell even Prince and Diana Ross were never mistaken for a vocal powerhouse. There is many elements to music, sweety! Voice is something that can be loved and admired but melody, hook, songwriting, entertainment, how it makes you feel is more than just a voice, its talent. You have no clue about what music really is but just merely parroting what you think or have been told as such. Needless and shameful. Basically your opinion on her as overall musical entity is more manufactured and trite than anything you accuse her of.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jul 9, 2014 22:02:12 GMT -5
You can call me deaf all you want and that's fine with me but is that alleged original vocal even a real deal? I know what William Orbit wrote pretty much confirms it's legit but it sounds really... weird to me. More like someone manipulated the leaked stem, which was heavily auto-tuned, to make it sound raw and stripped-down. I mean, undo the auto tune, if it's even a thing. That first verse is a total disaster but it gets better in the 2nd verse and I even hear some auto-tuned notes, just like the album, at the end of the song. Am I the only one who still thinks there's a possibility it's fake? It hurts my ears listening to that clip but I'm very suspicious about it so I've been playing it over and over. I'm still not sure.
Yeah, we're talking about Britney Spears here. She's not known for her singing ability, that's for sure, but come on. She used to be a better singer. We haven't heard her singing live in what, like a decade so no one knows what she actually sounds like right now but this kinda thing never goes missing. You used to be a singer and suddenly, you can't hit a single note now, high or low, even in the studio? She's never been a great vocalist but what I don't understand is that she sounds totally lost it in that clip. So... seriously? She sounds like a miserable drunken cat and it's just so hard to believe it's real. Well, William Orbit has been acting like an attention whore when it comes to Britney so I wouldn't be surprised if he was lying.
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Hefty Hanna
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Post by Hefty Hanna on Jul 9, 2014 22:08:51 GMT -5
She doesn't sound nearly as terrible as the media is making it out to be. I mean, there are certain parts that are "eek" but I mean, come on. Get the fuck over it.
How other artists who shall remain nameless take the stage and sound completely awful live get praised yet Brit gets all of this shit is baffling to me. She's literally not the only one using auto tune.
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Hussy
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Post by Hussy on Jul 9, 2014 22:24:29 GMT -5
Honestly? those leaked vocals don't sound that bad at all (aside from "but the stars" part) at least they showcase Britney's unique tone
and QAF u can't mess with the ARMY !!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 23:18:44 GMT -5
It's funny when people say that Britney Spears can't sing, and yet it is exactly her voice that made her such a huge deal to begin with. From that very first "Oh baybeh baybeh" on BOMT, the world was hooked. To this day, I'd rather hear Britney's electric tone on pretty much any song from a major producer out there.
For example, we got to hear Britney on TTWE and then we got to hear Kesha on TTWE... IMO, no competition. Even with all the studio manipulation (on any artist's voice), Britney's tone wins. It's a mixture of sexy, aggressive, sweet... and it's killer. There's a reason she has hit after hit after hit.
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darko95
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Post by darko95 on Jul 9, 2014 23:38:14 GMT -5
the vocals leaked 'without autotune' actually sound manipulated whenever she hits a sour note.
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dbhmr
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>
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Post by dbhmr on Jul 10, 2014 0:03:32 GMT -5
She doesn't sound nearly as terrible as the media is making it out to be. I mean, there are certain parts that are "eek" but I mean, come on. Get the f**k over it. How other artists who shall remain nameless take the stage and sound completely awful live get praised yet Brit gets all of this s**t is baffling to me. She's literally not the only one using auto tune. She sounds totally awful to me, but yeah, no worse than what the exact same auto tune-free take of Katy Perry singing "Firework" would sound like. I don't think we should be surprised about Britney getting shit for this but I don't understand why Katy and co. get a free pass (some reviews even praise her strong voice ).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 0:10:47 GMT -5
Dont get me started on that subject...... I will GO OFF and right here and now is not the best place. I could write several unreadable essay's on the matter but what do I know, the numbers daaahling, the numbers they tell me. fuck your numbers in this case.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 0:26:32 GMT -5
Born To Make You Happy still goes so HORD. The shallow lyrics, the chorus of 500 background singers, the sheer campiness of it all. After 2003ney, Teen Popney is my favorite incarnation.
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Pikachu.
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Post by Pikachu. on Jul 10, 2014 8:35:58 GMT -5
Meh, although Orbit confirmed it, anyone who has worked in audio production should be able to hear that the 'leaked' vocals still have effects on them. Some of the 'bad' notes sound tweaked to sound worse than they are, but the GP will probably still drag her to no end.
But before this people already think that she can't sing, so I don't think this will hurt her much. A lot of people also believe that 'leaked' mic audio from the Dream Within a Dream tour so they'll probably believe anything.
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think pink.
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Post by think pink. on Jul 10, 2014 9:47:09 GMT -5
"Born To Make You Happy" is one of her best songs. It should have been a single for the US.
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Diet Soda Pop
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Feeling Spearitual
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Post by Diet Soda Pop on Jul 10, 2014 11:03:07 GMT -5
Britney is just slaying Heidi Montag, Paris Hilton and Brooke Hogan with "Alien" smashing all the way up to #465 on iTunes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 11:23:06 GMT -5
I was babysitting surfing youtube, don't call CPS baby was sleeping, i think! but i got couple of minutes to get sexy and work it, to this out of this WORLD BOP. It makes me wanna jump on the dining room table and do squats
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 11:24:27 GMT -5
SHAWTAYYYYY GET ON THAT FLOOR AND SHAKE THAT ASSSSSSSSS, yass
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think pink.
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Post by think pink. on Jul 10, 2014 11:34:57 GMT -5
SHAWTAAY!
we finna go to da club and git crunk wit Britneh, HAAA!
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Marooned@Midnight
6x Platinum Member
It’s me…HI!…I’m the problem, it’s me
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Post by Marooned@Midnight on Jul 10, 2014 14:55:58 GMT -5
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Mack
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Post by Mack on Jul 10, 2014 15:43:13 GMT -5
Those TRL performances are/were proof that she's capable of singing live and dancing. I wish she would put forth that kind of effort now.
Her vocals on the 'Alien' leak aren't nearly as bad as they're being made out to be. She doesn't sound any worse than the likes of Katy, Rihanna, Miley, etc., probably do during their warm-ups. (I'm still not convinced that the leak is legit, though; it does sound edited at certain parts.)
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BOBO
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Post by BOBO on Jul 10, 2014 20:46:48 GMT -5
:o SHAWTAAY!
we finna go to da club and git crunk wit Britneh, HAAA!
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Post by It's me, bitch. on Jul 11, 2014 0:51:35 GMT -5
In my life if there could be one item I can go back and change history with it would be replacing I got that boom boom with outrageous as a single! Lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 13:20:56 GMT -5
Orbit wrote another response regarding the 'Alien' vocals. I'll bold some of the better parts, but it's not a bad read for what it is... even if I wish he'd shut up.
"File under ‘SONGWRITING’. For those of you that are still awake!
I’ve read all of your comments here on Facebook. Most interesting. I did have to give up answering them about half way down, thinking it better to just make this last post. And the time does fly.
There seem to be two main schools of thought. With the Britney lovers coming out well on top I’m pleased to say! A noticeable thing is that the language of those who take issue with me, who are down on Britney, gets quite ‘troll-like’. Not in all cases, but the ones with swear-words and insults stick out because they seem so out of place in a conversation about pop music.
I never thought that this debate would be quite so heated. After I post this I’m going to find a few clips of puppies on YouTube to lighten the moment and then get back into the studio and write some more music. A song about digging a hole lol!
But I did leave something important out of that last post. The one that ended up all over the place. It’s the SONGWRITING aspect.
I emphasised the ‘warm-up’ thing, but forgot to include the fact that with songwriting today, many of us do it in a studio recording environment. The autotune goes on, the monitors get turned up, the lights are turned down, and the hunt for great melodies and lyrics takes center stage. Bugger the intrinsic pitching. Who cares? Just a shame that someone put it out there. Like, as if they posted duff takes from a movie. Or scans of scrunched-up sheets from the wastepaper basket under a writer’s desk? Or photos of the rind-bits left over from a chef’s finest a bolognese .
A compilation of sneaky recordings from writing sessions with all the top 10 artists would be a cacophony of droning and groaning!
I’m not a ‘spin machine’ (that very thought has me chuckling) and I’ve have never in my entire life accepted any money for endorsing something or expressing a view. But for the record I should state that I’m anybody’s if there’s chocolate on offer.
I was accused of being angry by one commentator. A commentator funnily enough who used lots of angry looking caps. I could almost hear the steam hissing from their ears.
I could never get angry about pop music. Or any music I could get angry about the growing inequality gap, The SCOTUS interference in women’s rights to their own bodies, the fact that some people actually deride science these days, the fact that nurses don’t get paid properly, LGBT rights, animal rights. And so on.
But music? It’s a blessing. You cannot be angry with a blessing.
Autotune has always been a hot-button topic. Not as much as the issue of photoshopping in the fashion press. But more than say, the use of CGI, looping and stunt doubles in the movies.
The photoshopping thing is a real issue, as it must chip away the self-image of many people who do not feel secure about their body type. It’s so sad to see children becoming obsessed with their appearance, when they could be just having fun enjoying who they are, zits, pudge and all!
Regardless of the fun and games that we have with studio production, the main thing to keep in mind with Ms Spears is that tens of millions (hundreds of millions?) of people enjoy the music. That’s pretty much the be-all and end-all of it. And charisma is charisma. No software ever invented can manufacture that.
I’d love to be able to say that after conducting extensive empirical research and a fair amount of emotional resonance tabulation, I’ve come to the conclusion that Ms Spears is actually 26,967.847689% more awesome than I previously quantified. But no, it’s all about the feeling. Feeling good and getting into a musical high. It works for me!
Back to the commentiverse. The word ‘con’ has come up a few times, but it seems to me to be completely inappropriate. So many things that we trust are misrepresented to us in order for somebody to gouge a few more pennies. Often with harmful results. But music is a different universe. Nobody has ever been harmed by a Britney Spears record, unless a stack of them fell onto a CD factory worker.
You know what yore getting With the internet you never have to buy an album (those that still but them, bless you sweeties!) without first having heard it."
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Keelzit
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Post by Keelzit on Jul 11, 2014 13:36:03 GMT -5
Something tells me that all this drama was created on purpose to give some buzz to Brit so as Alien finally becomes the monster single it deserves to be. I'm sure she has already filmed the video.
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dzjx
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Post by dzjx on Jul 11, 2014 15:24:29 GMT -5
In my life if there could be one item I can go back and change history with it would be replacing I got that boom boom with outrageous as a single! Lol Priorities of a Britney stan.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 18:46:18 GMT -5
In my life if there could be one item I can go back and change history with it would be replacing I got that boom boom with outrageous as a single! Lol Priorities of a Britney stan. Now that was flawless shade at all stans, snap back! However Coco, the one. Would have included a .gif after that. I actually came here to discuss this track but had acknowledge that shade. Britney call DANJA and do 6 or 7 songs out of 12/14 together, it's time to put on the face and send these basic chicks (plural. note) to the dance floor where you slay them.
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