badrobot
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Post by badrobot on Apr 2, 2012 10:18:54 GMT -5
It would be nice if we got the actual breakdown (at least of the # of concert redemptions) once M's final sales are reported. If there are fewer concert redemptions than the difference between her and #2, then this whole conversation becomes moot.
I don't know why everyone gets so worked up about this kind of stuff anyway. The music business has been shifting so rapidly in recent years that it seems there is always some new tactic to complain about. Honestly the only times my eyebrow has been raised is when they have made changes to formulation without prior notice (such as The Eagles hitting #1 over Britney and Whitney charting on the Hot 100). Ultimately those changes were probably the right decisions to make (although I'm still iffy on the older songs charting rule). But this week we're not even talking about a new rule. BB has established how this works, and everyone is playing fair.
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asg4
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Post by asg4 on Apr 2, 2012 10:41:52 GMT -5
But it's not like each album is being counted for every ticket?! Only the ones redeemed, which the consumer is making a choice to redeem it at that point. If 600,000 tickets were sold but only 150,000 redeemed, what's the big deal? Get over it. 150k of these free give aways will alter the charts and not reflect the true #1. look at the other senarios 1) Madonna is prevented from reaching #1 by some similar ploy my mariah 2) or adele was robbed of the #1 this week the whole board would be crazy Of course madonna has to resort to such marketing since she no longer can sell albums and no longer can generate hit singles and i dont think this album will even have 400k of real sales. All the ppl supportive of this move r just self serving because their fav isnt going to manage to reach #1 without using this move. Prince album went double platinum no other prince album has done that well in recent memory. of course there is demand for his live shows but not so much for his current albums. His next album was alot better but couldnt quite sell so much Billboard should prevent gimmicks like this and 25cent or 99cent deals. They just distort the chart and dont reflect the true buying power
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Apr 2, 2012 10:49:39 GMT -5
Blah...blah...blah...
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Rodze
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Post by Rodze on Apr 2, 2012 10:50:21 GMT -5
^ It's a diva release on Pulse.
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chartfreak
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Post by chartfreak on Apr 2, 2012 10:53:16 GMT -5
I can't anymore.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 2, 2012 10:54:27 GMT -5
Billboard reports units sold. If an album sells 10,000 copies for $1, that's still 10,000 units sold. If they measured by money made (or used during transaction for said units), then that would be different. Most people that use Billboard as a serious source for sales realize this and can take it into account when it's needed.
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asg4
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Post by asg4 on Apr 2, 2012 11:02:15 GMT -5
Billboard reports units sold. If an album sells 10,000 copies for $1, that's still 10,000 units sold. If they measured by money made (or used during transaction for said units), then that would be different. Most people that use Billboard as a serious source for sales realize this and can take it into account when it's needed. Billboard considers the cost at least for the first 4 weeks of the new release. They realize the potential to change the #1 in the first few weeks is max. I dont think ppl would care if it was lower in the charts
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 2, 2012 11:16:01 GMT -5
Exactly, br. Anyone who has such issue with this is makes it very clear why in his or her posts. Madonna, warming up the No. 1 spot for Nicki Minaj next week.
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Apr 2, 2012 11:20:43 GMT -5
It would be nice if we got the actual breakdown (at least of the # of concert redemptions) once M's final sales are reported. If there are fewer concert redemptions than the difference between her and #2, then this whole conversation becomes moot. I don't know why everyone gets so worked up about this kind of stuff anyway. The music business has been shifting so rapidly in recent years that it seems there is always some new tactic to complain about. Honestly the only times my eyebrow has been raised is when they have made changes to formulation without prior notice (such as The Eagles hitting #1 over Britney and Whitney charting on the Hot 100). Ultimately those changes were probably the right decisions to make (although I'm still iffy on the older songs charting rule). But this week we're not even talking about a new rule. BB has established how this works, and everyone is playing fair. Several weeks after Prince did the concert trick Billboard changed the rule to state that you couldn't do that any more. Did they change the rule back or something?
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badrobot
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Post by badrobot on Apr 2, 2012 11:25:10 GMT -5
^I believe the difference is in automatic redemption vs. consumer actively redeeming.
To get the Madonna album you have to request it, they don't send it to you automatically.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Apr 2, 2012 11:26:54 GMT -5
Billboard did not change the rule, but some people here refuse to learn the FACTS.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Apr 2, 2012 11:27:33 GMT -5
^I believe the difference is in automatic redemption vs. consumer actively redeeming. To get the Madonna album you have to request it, they don't send it to you automatically. People, read what badrobot said: To get the Madonna album you have to request it, they don't send it to you automatically.
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asg4
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Post by asg4 on Apr 2, 2012 11:36:46 GMT -5
^I believe the difference is in automatic redemption vs. consumer actively redeeming. To get the Madonna album you have to request it, they don't send it to you automatically. People, read what badrobot said: To get the Madonna album you have to request it, they don't send it to you automatically.Redemption doesnt cost a cent and she is giving ppl pit tix to get them to redeem. OF course if it doesnt cost a cent ppl will redeem. if i am offered something for free i will always accept it thats just human nature Bon jovi did it the right way he gave link to buy the album for $10 but her albums r FREE. FREE shouldn't count. She cant even Legitimately sell more then of all ppl Lionel who started his musical career 45 yrs back
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 2, 2012 11:40:19 GMT -5
There is no info that says it's free- just "at no additional cost" to what they paid in the initial transaction. So, we're left to speculate whether the ticket price includes the album- and, it's likely we'll never know for sure. As said, the clean, standard edition of the album (which is the one that is redeemed) would only go for $9-$10, a tiny portion of the prices people pay for Madonna tickets.
Basically, we're free to think that it's "free" or part of the initial ticket price. Either way, it's sales- and Billboard would not count them if it viewed them as "free."
And, 30 years into a career of being one of the most consistently successful acts ever, Her Madgesty sells just fine. :'(
(Below- Probably a good rule of thumb, though, areyou ready. hehe)
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Apr 2, 2012 11:44:46 GMT -5
I learned a long time ago to ignore asg4.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Apr 2, 2012 12:04:30 GMT -5
ONE year ago: www.hitsdailydouble.com/sales/archcht.cgi?cht441CHART DATE: 04/04/2011 -- 1 BRITNEY SPEARS JIVE/JLG 278,618 -- FEMME FATALE -- 2 WIZ KHALIFA ATLANTIC 191,777 -- ROLLING PAPERS 3 3 ADELE XL/COLUMBIA 93,782 -2% 21 1 4 CHRIS BROWN JIVE/JLG 88,396 -68% F.A.M.E. 6 5 SONGS FOR JAPAN UNIVERSAL INTERNATIONAL 71,616 +4% VARIOUS ARTISTS -- 6 RADIOHEAD TBD 60,067 -- KING OF LIMBS 2 7 JENNIFER HUDSON ARISTA/RMG 53,953 -68% I REMEMBER ME -- 8 SNOOP DOGG DS/PRIORITY/EMI 49,145 -- DOGGUMENTARY 5 9 KIRK FRANKLIN GOSPOCENTRIC 46,159 -47% HELLO FEAR -- 10 MARY MARY COLUMBIA 41,648 -- SOMETHING BIG
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 2, 2012 12:16:02 GMT -5
Mentioned it before, but if MDNA finishes in the top 2, it will be M's 13th top 2 album. Both she and Barbra Streisand would have 13 albums that have peaked at No. 1 or No. 2. Babs has had nine No. 1 and four No. 2.
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The Upper Hand
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Post by The Upper Hand on Apr 2, 2012 12:17:37 GMT -5
I learned a long time ago to ignore asg4. Well, everything he/she said makes sense to me. But I understand why you can't take it, only based on your nickname lol
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 2, 2012 12:21:38 GMT -5
^Not a matter of "taking it," but clarifying information. It makes sense to you, as that's one way to look at it. That doesn't make it's right and it doesn't make it necessarily wrong. Same for what I posted. Everyone has their own interpretation.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Apr 2, 2012 12:28:58 GMT -5
I think it's too bad that most people can't look at the issue objectively rather than being for or against based on whether you're a fan or not. This is mostly a good discussion until someone throws a trolling comment in there. Replace the name Madonna with Artist X and everything should still stand. If you can't do that, you have no business discussing it in here, in my opinion.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 2, 2012 12:41:56 GMT -5
^Well said, sir. :) Why I put in there that neither position is right or wrong- simply because we don't know for sure one way or another if the ticket prices take into account the $9-$10 for the clean/standard album.
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Apr 2, 2012 13:00:17 GMT -5
All is fair in marketing your music.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 2, 2012 13:06:09 GMT -5
^Euliss, you edited your whole post there There's no illusion necessary- she's managed to maintain an impressive level of commercial relevancy for an act who debuted in 1982. The power of Her Madgesty. :'( I hope BB does report on the percentages, because I doubt the album redemptions comprise an overwhelming majority of sales.
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slw84
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Post by slw84 on Apr 2, 2012 13:08:01 GMT -5
ONE year ago: www.hitsdailydouble.com/sales/archcht.cgi?cht441CHART DATE: 04/04/2011 -- 1 BRITNEY SPEARS JIVE/JLG 278,618 -- FEMME FATALE -- 2 WIZ KHALIFA ATLANTIC 191,777 -- ROLLING PAPERS 3 3 ADELE XL/COLUMBIA 93,782 -2% 21 1 4 CHRIS BROWN JIVE/JLG 88,396 -68% F.A.M.E. 6 5 SONGS FOR JAPAN UNIVERSAL INTERNATIONAL 71,616 +4% VARIOUS ARTISTS -- 6 RADIOHEAD TBD 60,067 -- KING OF LIMBS 2 7 JENNIFER HUDSON ARISTA/RMG 53,953 -68% I REMEMBER ME -- 8 SNOOP DOGG DS/PRIORITY/EMI 49,145 -- DOGGUMENTARY 5 9 KIRK FRANKLIN GOSPOCENTRIC 46,159 -47% HELLO FEAR -- 10 MARY MARY COLUMBIA 41,648 -- SOMETHING BIG I love it...21st century best selling female artist #1 last year...20th century best selling female #1 this week. I'm verklempt :'(
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brucelover
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Post by brucelover on Apr 2, 2012 13:09:00 GMT -5
asg4 is so pressed, take several seats and deal with Madonna being #1.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Apr 2, 2012 13:11:12 GMT -5
Looks like Lionel Richie's album will end up on the higher end of the projections. And, Madonna's album likely will see a nice update with the final numbers tomorrow.
CHART DATE: 04/02/2012 LAST UPDATE: 04/02/2012 12:08:51 NOW IN: 54.02% LW TW artist / album label power index -- 1 MADONNA INTERSCOPE 147,686 MDNA -- 2 LIONEL RICHIE MERCURY NASHVILLE 139,522 TUSKEGEE 2 3 ADELE XL/COLUMBIA 74,058 21 -- 4 SHINEDOWN ATLANTIC 40,477 AMARYLLIS 4 5 ONE DIRECTION SYCO/COLUMBIA 21,072 UP ALL NIGHT -- 6 KATY PERRY CAPITOL/EMI 19,696 TEENAGE DREAM 1 7 HUNGER GAMES: SONGS FROM DISTRIC UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC 18,350 SOUNDTRACK 9 8 NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL MUSIC 41 CAPITOL/EMI 16,956 VARIOUS ARTISTS 8 9 WHITNEY HOUSTON RCA 15,393 WHITNEY - THE GREATEST HITS 16 10 LUKE BRYAN CAPITOL NASHVILLE/EMI 15,068 TAILGATES & TANLINES 17 11 SHAKE IT UP: LIVE 2 DANCE WALT DISNEY 11,663 SOUNDTRACK 14 12 ADELE XL/COLUMBIA 10,835 19 -- 13 SCOTTY MCCREERY MERC NASH/19/INTERSCOPE 9,262 CLEAR AS DAY 23 14 JASON ALDEAN BROKEN BOW 9,144 MY KINDA PARTY 6 15 BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN COLUMBIA 8,886 WRECKING BALL 18 16 KELLY CLARKSON 19/RCA 8,644 STRONGER 29 17 ERIC CHURCH CAPITOL NASHVILLE/EMI 8,198 CHIEF 27 18 LADY ANTEBELLUM CAPITOL NASHVILLE/EMI 8,191 OWN THE NIGHT 7 19 MELANIE FIONA SRC/UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC 7,636 THE MF LIFE 41 20 KIDZ BOP KIDS RAZOR & TIE 7,383 KIDZ BOP 21 19 21 RIHANNA DEF JAM/IDJ 7,001 TALK THAT TALK 26 22 LMFAO INTERSCOPE 6,275 SORRY FOR PARTY ROCKING 15 23 DRAKE YM/CM/UNIVERSAL REPUBLIC 6,138 TAKE CARE -- 24 BLAKE SHELTON WARNER BROS. NASHVILLE 6,102 RED RIVER BLUE 34 25 NICKELBACK ROADRUNNER 6,054 HERE AND NOW -- 26 ALL-AMERICAN REJECTS INTERSCOPE 5,816 KIDS IN THE STREET -- 27 THE USED HOPELESS 5,660 VUNERABLE 36 28 BODYGUARD RCA 5,348 SOUNDTRACK 13 29 GOTYE FAIRFAX/UNIV REPUBLIC 5,151 MAKING MIRRORS -- 30 MARS VOLTA WARNER BROS. 5,018 NOCTOURNIQUET -- 31 FRESH BEAT BAND NICKELODEON/LEGACY 4,976 MUSIC FROM THE HIT TV SHOW -- 32 MY DARKEST DAYS MERCURY 4,632 SICK & TWISTED AFFAIR 46 33 THE BAND PERRY REPUBLIC NASHVILLE 4,485 THE BAND PERRY 40 34 WHITNEY HOUSTON RCA 4,477 I LOOK TO YOU 48 35 MIRANDA LAMBERT RCA NASHVILLE 4,431 FOUR THE RECORD -- 36 TOBY KEITH SHOW DOG 4,315 CLANCY'S TAVERN 32 37 YOUNG JEEZY DEF JAM/IDJ 4,237 TM 103: HUSTLER AMBITION -- 38 TAYLOR SWIFT BIG MACHINE 4,227 SPEAK NOW -- 39 WHITNEY HOUSTON RCA 4,142 WHITNEY HOUSTON 39 40 BRANTLEY GILBERT BIG MACHINE 4,118 HALFWAY TO HEAVEN 24 41 CASEY JAMES 19/BNA 3,940 CASEY JAMES 22 42 BLACK KEYS NONESUCH 3,923 EL CAMINO 20 43 TYGA CASH MONEY/UNIV REPUBLIC 3,862 CARELESS WORLD 11 44 DIGGY ATLANTIC 3,710 UNEXPECTED ARRIVAL 42 45 BRUNO MARS NEW ELEKTRA 3,692 DOO-WOPS & HOOLIGANS -- 46 MARY J. BLIGE GEFFEN 3,680 MY LIFE II-THE JOURNEY CONTINUES 43 47 VAN HALEN INTERSCOPE 3,584 DIFFERENT KIND OF TRUTH 12 48 FUN. FUELED BY RAMEN 3,341 SOME NIGHTS 30 49 COLDPLAY CAPITOL/EMI 3,159 MYLO XYLOTO -- 50 MAROON 5 A&M/OCTONE 2,937 HANDS ALL OVER
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Apr 2, 2012 13:17:45 GMT -5
Go Lionel!
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Post by closeyoureyes on Apr 2, 2012 13:57:03 GMT -5
But it's not like each album is being counted for every ticket?! Only the ones redeemed, which the consumer is making a choice to redeem it at that point. If 600,000 tickets were sold but only 150,000 redeemed, what's the big deal? Get over it. Bingo. It's not like this album redemption is giving Madonna a million-plus sales week. Her numbers aren't that huge either way so what's the issue? Do we have any LIONEL RICHIE stans on this board who would really be the only ppl with a right to take issue with this? No? Then quit the pot stirring and move on.
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herb
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Post by herb on Apr 2, 2012 14:12:12 GMT -5
Based on the itunes and amazon chart, it may not be surprise to see Lionel Richie's sale. However, it is quite a surprise to me to see Lionel sold so many in the debut week.
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Tortuga
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Post by Tortuga on Apr 2, 2012 15:04:03 GMT -5
LOL some strange album titles for the whole top 4.
Can someone educate me. I remember last year Billboard changed their rules after gaga&amazon deal not to count albums with price lower than 3.99$ or 2.99$. Did they change it back or was it untrue?
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