Anyone else considering to switch formats?

[Kid Pulse]

I've been thinking, the Hot AC chart is starting to alienate some of its core artists in for crappy, sell-out pop crossovers that should not be any higher than about #10 on Hot AC. Great songs like "Before It's too Late" and "When You're Gone" are probably gonna end up with peaks BARELY inside the top 10. When I first got into Hot AC radio, in 2004, I could have easily seen them going top 3.

Also, Matchbox Twenty's new song, regardless of how lame I think it is, deserves to have more than a +15 bullet while P!nk sky-rockets to #1, knocking off Fergie of all frickin' people.

I remember back when Maroon 5 had back-to-back songs that spent double-digit weeks at #1. Now they are struggling to get into the top 20 with thier latest single. If Hot AC is gonna push pop-based pop songs to #2 and #1 all year long, then they sure as hell better send a Hot AC-based pop song to #2 or #1. It'll probably miss the top 10.

Hot AC is a big mess now. I don't like it as much as I once did.

[Chase]

Already switched. My car radio tuner is usually locked on WXPN (Triple A) out of Philly. I've found that it's much more rewarding to hear a larger library of better music.

As we've already discussed, Hot AC is generally TRYING to be the mass-appeal station that Top 40 once was and is failing miserably. Hot AC WNNK here in Harrisburg does Hot AC very well, capitalizing on its Top 40 heritage. Problem for me is, I don't care to hear "Be Still My Heart" by Genesis or an 80s cut from REO Speedwagon. I understand that they're going for the upper age crust of the demo there. And the lower age crust has been appeased with the pop-oriented crap and Nickelback plus the Nickelback clones.

Then again, as a 23 year old male, Hot AC programmers aren't targeting me anyway.

[musicfanpete]

video545 said:

I've been thinking, the Hot AC chart is starting to alienate some of its core artists in for crappy, sell-out pop crossovers that should not be any higher than about #10 on Hot AC. Great songs like "Before It's too Late" and "When You're Gone" are probably gonna end up with peaks BARELY inside the top 10. When I first got into Hot AC radio, in 2004, I could have easily seen them going top 3.

Also, Matchbox Twenty's new song, regardless of how lame I think it is, deserves to have more than a +15 bullet while Pink sky-rockets to #1, knocking off Fergie of all frickin' people.

I remember back when Maroon 5 had back-to-back songs that spent double-digit weeks at #1. Now they are struggling to get into the top 20 with thier latest single. If Hot AC is gonna push pop-based pop songs to #2 and #1 all year long, then they sure as hell better send a Hot AC-based pop song to #2 or #1. It'll probably miss the top 10.

Hot AC is a big mess now. I don't like it as much as I once did.

Well as I've said before, I thought the Hot AC format was starting to sound a bit stale with the vast majority of songs sounding so similar to one another. As I've said, I don't mind hearing some pop crossover songs on this format. As long as they don't start adding the 50 Cents of the world, the format will be fine.

However, I have some good news for you Kid Pulse. I'm not seeing as many crossovers making their way up the chart as I did a few months ago. Aside from the aforementioned Pink songs, only the two Rihanna's and Sean Kingston are located within the 26 to 40 portion of the chart, and all three are pretty much at their peak anyway. "Lovestoned" by Justin Timberlake may make a bit of a run, but I don't see it rising much above #25 anyway.

The other bit of good news is that with the likes of Pat Monahan, James Blunt and Maroon 5 all releasing new songs that are moving up the chart, they should all be able to have solid runs into at least the top 20 if not higher. The Maroon 5 song you mentioned, while not ripping the charts apart like "Make It Happen", can still have a long run up the chart. There have been many songs in the past that have started out very slowly, only to go on to huge runs at the top of the chart. I know "This Love" took about ten weeks to climb up to the top of the chart, and then it went on to spend 12 weeks at the top! So don't count out "Wake Up Call" just yet. And that great new K.T. Tunstall song, "Hold On" looks like it's starting to regain some momentum again. So there still exists quite a large pool of songs that will rule chart for quite awhile. And if these core Hot AC artitsts bomb, there's always fresh new talent like Colbie Colliat and Daughtry that will do well for awhile.

Finally, if you think our Hot AC charts have become too pop oriented, you ought to look at the Canadian Hot AC charts. EVERY pop crossover routinely goes top 10 on that chart!

Okay Kid Pulse, feel free to flame away!

[Kid Pulse]

^LOL, that was actually a very helpful post to me. I'm glad that you don't think "Wake Up Call" will not have a shot at big-hit status on Hot AC. I'm just bummed that Avril and The Goo Goo Dolls failed to go into the top 10. They all seriously have gotten thier pants pulled down with that one.

Also, I like the way you referenced Pat Monahan's song. I think it really deserves the top 10. James Blunt's song is good too.

Let me ask you this though- isn't Hot AC feeding off CHR like a pasafire? Everything that goes top 5 here, unless it's by a Nickelback/Lifehouse type of artist, pretty much has to go at least top 10 on the pop chart first. P!nk was big there, so she's big here. Same with Fergie, Nelly Furtado, and Gwen. I do like that Colbie Calliat's song is becoming big here though. I hope that manages at least a top 5 peak.

I've seen the Canadian ones...OUCH!!

[KelownaGuy20]

What can I say? In Canada, we're just a lot more laid back when it comes to music. There are formats for everyone, and HotAC, which again, is a format targeted to for a 18-40 female demo works in Canada.

You have to think about it this way: look at pop a decade back. Obviously less hip hop and rap, more of the "pure pop" and whatnot. Well, a decade later, CHR has grown along with its target demo. The demo has always remained the same, but with new people entering, and people exiting.

The same pretty much has to hold true for any format, HotAC included. A decade back, the average female listener was somewhere in the 8-30 range during a time when CHR was playin' the heck out of the likes of Robyn, the Spice Girls, Tonic, Toni Braxton, etc. HotAC now feels the need to cater to this audience. Obviously, golds like matchbox twenty and, I dunno, the Gin Blossoms are still around, but HotAC has to stay current at the same time.

When a woman grows up, she doesn't automatically switch the primary type of music she listens to. If she thought Robyn, Tonic and Toni Braxton were awesome back in her late teens, why wouldn't she enjoy Fergie, Nickelback or Pink.

Every artist has peaks in their career... look at the Rolling Stones. While they continue to release music, nothing they release these days will ever compare chart wise to the stuff they did in the 60s and 70s. The same holds true with the Goo Goo Dolls. Or matchbox twenty. Or anybody, for that matter.

In ten years time, it's highly unlikely that Fergie will be able to score number one hits, and those of who grew up listening to her on CHR or HotAC now won't understand it. Fact is, radio is business, and if Fergie brings in huge ratings in the very profitable F 18-40 demo, then that's who you program to, and who you program with.

[atlantaboy]

video545 said:

I've been thinking, the Hot AC chart is starting to alienate some of its core artists in for crappy, sell-out pop crossovers that should not be any higher than about #10 on Hot AC. Great songs like "Before It's too Late" and "When You're Gone" are probably gonna end up with peaks BARELY inside the top 10. When I first got into Hot AC radio, in 2004, I could have easily seen them going top 3.

Also, Matchbox Twenty's new song, regardless of how lame I think it is, deserves to have more than a +15 bullet while Pink sky-rockets to #1, knocking off Fergie of all frickin' people.

I remember back when Maroon 5 had back-to-back songs that spent double-digit weeks at #1. Now they are struggling to get into the top 20 with thier latest single. If Hot AC is gonna push pop-based pop songs to #2 and #1 all year long, then they sure as hell better send a Hot AC-based pop song to #2 or #1. It'll probably miss the top 10.

Hot AC is a big mess now. I don't like it as much as I once did.

I don't have Hot AC now - only two HAC-leaning CHRs...frustrating b/c can't hear "Before It's Too Late" unless it goes for CHR adds and never heard "Her Eyes"

With the exception of the GGD, I think pop/alternative has some pretty poor songs right now (When You're Gone has juvenile-sounding lyrics IMO, and the new Maroon 5 and Matchbox Twenty songs I think have way too much burn) and that's why HAC is turning to Pink and Fergie -

The other reason I think HAC is becoming more pop is b/c in a lot of markets the CHR "pop" stations are really rhythmic, leaving a "pop" hole for the CHR to fill

As far as future HAC hits, I wouldn't count on "Wake Up Call", "When You're Gone", or even "How Far We've Come" - I'd start lookin' at "Bubbly" "Broken" by Lifehouse (when it's released), and supposedly Matchbox 20 have some bigger hits comin on their CD - until then, "Who Knew" is gonna be played like crazy, and I don't think "First Time" is goin anywhere soon (esp. b/c I think it's got a lot more power at CHR) - "Her Eyes" is getting a bunch of adds, but I still haven't heard it >:( so can't comment on that one

For what it's worth, I don't think HAC playin Fergie is much different than playin "Because Of You" by Kelly Clarkson - same with "Who Knew" and "Since U Been Gone" - I thought that Kelly Clarkson period (of 2005 I think) was much worse than the line up now

[musicfanpete]

video545 said:

^LOL, that was actually a very helpful post to me. I'm glad that you don't think "Wake Up Call" will not have a shot at big-hit status on Hot AC. I'm just bummed that Avril and The Goo Goo Dolls failed to go into the top 10. They all seriously have gotten thier pants pulled down with that one.

Also, I like the way you referenced Pat Monahan's song. I think it really deserves the top 10. James Blunt's song is good too.

Let me ask you this though- isn't Hot AC feeding off CHR like a pasafire? Everything that goes top 5 here, unless it's by a Nickelback/Lifehouse type of artist, pretty much has to go at least top 10 on the pop chart first. Pink was big there, so she's big here. Same with Fergie, Nelly Furtado, and Gwen. I do like that Colbie Calliat's song is becoming big here though. I hope that manages at least a top 5 peak.

I've seen the Canadian ones...OUCH!!

Actually Avril and the Goo Goo Dolls are in the top 10, albeit barely. I also agree that "When You're Gone" should be a much bigger Hot AC hit than "Girlfriend". Hopefully she regains her bullet soon.

I also agree about the CHR influence on the Hot AC format as of late. However, the core artists like Avril and Lifehouse usually peak first on the Hot AC chart before the CHR chart. Right now, "When You're Gone" is about at the same level on both charts, while "First Time" is just starting to it's run on the CHR top 20 chart. The pop-crossover songs OTOH usually become established on the CHR-leaning Hot AC stations before other Hot AC stations decide to add them. Nelly Furtado and Elliot Yamin are good examples of that.

Colbie Colliat's song may be the exception though. An actual Hot AC artist that is breaking out on Hot AC radio before CHR radio even has a sniff of it. This used to be the rule on the Hot AC format, particularly during the Lilith Fair era. Now though, outside of the core artists, Hot AC now immitates the CHR chart in some ways.

I take it though you never want to see our Hot AC charts turn into the CHR clones that the Canadian Hot AC chart has! :) I knew KelownaGuy20 would respond to your post!

[Rumors]

Interesting comments. I also don't like that my HotAC has become much more pop leaning in the last year. I do want to add that Avril Lavigne is not a core HotAC artist. She may have had some success here but her audience is primarily 25 and under (my guess). She'll be lucky to have a career when she reaches 30 and she's too old for the teen market.

[KelownaGuy20]

musicfanpete said:

I knew KelownaGuy20 would respond to your post!

Yeah, well, that's just how I am. I gotta stick up for my format!

[musicfanpete]

kelownaguy19 said:

musicfanpete said:

I knew KelownaGuy20 would respond to your post!

Yeah, well, that's just how I am. I gotta stick up for my format!

I knew you would. I must say that I do like the Canadian Hot AC format. It definately takes more chances on different genres of music than the U.S. charts do. And of course, it moves a lot faster!

[atlantaboy]

rumors said:

I do want to add that Avril Lavigne is not a core HotAC artist. She may have had some success here but her audience is primarily 25 and under (my guess). She'll be lucky to have a career when she reaches 30 and she's too old for the teen market.

I completely agree...at first I thought Avril Lavigne was "dumbing down" her lyrics b/c of poor songwriting, but now that I think about it I wouldn't be surprised if she's "dumbing down" her lyrics on purpose to "fit in" to the teen market...it's weird cause dating back to her first CD, some singles hit HAC first (Complicated, Don't Tell Me, Keep Holding On), some hit HAC and CHR simultaneously (I'm With You, My Happy Ending, When You're Gone), and the more rhythmic hits hit CHR first (Sk8er Boi, Girlfriend)

"When You're Gone" IMO is a song that could be sung by Jessica Simpson...not sure why people expect it to be a big HAC hit

[Hot AC Archiver]

I have no problem with Pink reaching the top portions of the HAC chart with her latest. Fergie's song is ok for the format, although not #1 material IMHO. Now if "Glamorous" were #1, then I'd be switching formats ;)

My favorite HAC station is actually a HAC/AC hybrid. They do play 70s music during the workday (which I enjoy), so they are targeting the upper portions of the HAC demo. I like them because they play some 90s songs that charted on CHR/AC that no one else seems to play, e.g. "The Real Love" by Bob Seger, "Hold on" by Jamie Walters, etc.

WZPL, which is really a CHR wannabe, plays too much rap. Just the other day they played a version of "Rehab" with a male rap in the middle. We're talking in the middle of the afternoon, not during the evening or overnight. Why do I still check in to that station? Well that's a place where I'm more likely to hear a song like "First Time" more often since the other station I mentioned above plays currents less frequently.

Thus I'm beginning to wonder if HAC is going through an identity crisis, where stations are either leaning CHR or AC with no real in between. When rap becomes a staple on HAC, then I'm history.

[Marv]

I agree---the day that rap becomes as prevalent at Hot AC as it is at top 40 will mark the death of what was the best format in existence from 1992 throughout most of the nineties, and the VERY late nineties were exceptional.

The format was never designed as one where rap music could be heard in the first place; one of the most-used positioning statements at the format throughout its 15 1/2 year history has been something in the vein of 'Today's Best Music Without The Rap & Hard Rock'.

I can't believe what a mess WZPL is compared to its legacy as a powerhouse CHR/Pop station throughout most of the eighties, with double-digit shares almost continuously and usually being either first or second in the market ratings-wise.

I also agree that too many rock artists sound too much alike as opposed to the eighties, whenfar fewer of them sounded alike, regardless of whether you listened to top 40, classic rock or AOR.

But the format continues to be hamstrung by not being able to play many of the top 40 hits of the eighties which were huge at CHR/Pop; that 250-300 song ceiling in a typical library at many radio stations is VERY detrimental to several formats, with Hot AC being just one of them.

[tico]

I don't think hot AC will become a dumping ground for rap music, though I do think the format would be open to playing some old-school rap songs. Of course, as long as they don't go overboard with it. I also think some modern rap songs could find its way onto hot AC, but it would have to be "family friendly", like Will Smith. I don't see 50 Cent or Shop Boyz making it onto hot AC, even if they have songs that go #1 for a whole year on CHR.

[Kid Pulse]

kelownaguy19 said:

What can I say? In Canada, we're just a lot more laid back when it comes to music. There are formats for everyone, and HotAC, which again, is a format targeted to for a 18-40 female demo works in Canada.

You have to think about it this way: look at pop a decade back. Obviously less hip hop and rap, more of the "pure pop" and whatnot. Well, a decade later, CHR has grown along with its target demo. The demo has always remained the same, but with new people entering, and people exiting.

The same pretty much has to hold true for any format, HotAC included. A decade back, the average female listener was somewhere in the 8-30 range during a time when CHR was playin' the heck out of the likes of Robyn, the Spice Girls, Tonic, Toni Braxton, etc. HotAC now feels the need to cater to this audience. Obviously, golds like matchbox twenty and, I dunno, the Gin Blossoms are still around, but HotAC has to stay current at the same time.

When a woman grows up, she doesn't automatically switch the primary type of music she listens to. If she thought Robyn, Tonic and Toni Braxton were awesome back in her late teens, why wouldn't she enjoy Fergie, Nickelback or Pink.

Every artist has peaks in their career... look at the Rolling Stones. While they continue to release music, nothing they release these days will ever compare chart wise to the stuff they did in the 60s and 70s. The same holds true with the Goo Goo Dolls. Or matchbox twenty. Or anybody, for that matter.

In ten years time, it's highly unlikely that Fergie will be able to score number one hits, and those of who grew up listening to her on CHR or HotAC now won't understand it. Fact is, radio is business, and if Fergie brings in huge ratings in the very profitable F 18-40 demo, then that's who you program to, and who you program with.

That's another reason that I'm not liking the format. They're very boring outside of the songs. I think modern rock stations are much more entertaining in that regard. I usually didn't mind Hot AC's female sound, but now that I'm seeing Pink and Fergie, I am.

rumors said:

Interesting comments. I also don't like that my HotAC has become much more pop leaning in the last year. I do want to add that Avril Lavigne is not a core HotAC artist. She may have had some success here but her audience is primarily 25 and under (my guess). She'll be lucky to have a career when she reaches 30 and she's too old for the teen market.

That's completely wrong, Avril has had the two biggest female hits on Hot AC this DECADE, with "Complicated" and "I'm With You". I can't believe you guys don't consider Avril a core artist, but you consider Kelly Clarkson one. Kelly Clarkson had ONE ALBUM with a respectable (and for the record- historical) strand of hits on the format.

And I don't know what's up with people bashing the lyrics of "When You're Gone", but nobody complains about the lyrics in "U + Ur Hand", a song about wacking off that went top 5 on a so-called "soccer mom" format.

Another example of Hot AC abandoning core artists is that John Mayer is being favored by Elliot Yamin. Also, they're favoring Fall Out Boy over The Fray. The only real hopes with me right now are "Bubbly" and of course, "Over You". The bullet is pathetically small for that song now.

[musicfanpete]

video545 said:

And I don't know what's up with people bashing the lyrics of "When You're Gone", but nobody complains about the lyrics in "U + Ur Hand", a song about wacking off that went top 5 on a so-called "soccer mom" format.

That's probably the main reason my Hot AC station WTMX in Chicago never did add this, which I commend them for even though I do actually like the song, minus the lyrics of course.

Back to the whole pop vs modern sound Hot AC debate, the Mix's ratings have gone up since they have become more CHR leaning. Then again, who knows if that trend will continue over the next couple of books. It's working now since they are competing against two very rhythmic leaning CHR's, but who knows how long that trend will continue.

I have to give kudos to the Mix for adding "All Good Things (Come To An End)" by Nelly Furtado, despite being a bust elsewhere. If more Hot AC stations added eclectic songs like this, the ratings would go sky high!

[banet2001]

I grew tired of CHR pop a long time ago and I have grown fairly tired of the Hot AC stations as well (although I will watch VH1 in the morning when they play videos). This is why I have pretty much switched over to Triple A exclusively. Triple A may not be for everybody, but it does play the most interesting variety of songs on radio that I have heard.

[blurple]

musicfanpete said:

video545 said:

And I don't know what's up with people bashing the lyrics of "When You're Gone", but nobody complains about the lyrics in "U + Ur Hand", a song about wacking off that went top 5 on a so-called "soccer mom" format.

That's probably the main reason my Hot AC station WTMX in Chicago never did add this, which I commend them for even though I do actually like the song, minus the lyrics of course.

Back to the whole pop vs modern sound Hot AC debate, the Mix's ratings have gone up since they have become more CHR leaning. Then again, who knows if that trend will continue over the next couple of books. It's working now since they are competing against two very rhythmic leaning CHR's, but who knows how long that trend will continue.

I have to give kudos to the Mix for adding "All Good Things (Come To An End)" by Nelly Furtado, despite being a bust elsewhere. If more Hot AC stations added eclectic songs like this, the ratings would go sky high!

We have the same station. I still love their playlist although I hated that they added Beautiful Girls. Thank god, I haven't heard it in a while.

[Marv]

Ms. Lavigne certainly is a core artist at Hot AC; she's among the top three or four females at the format (Sheryl Crow is clearly #1, as she has been throughout the format's 15+ years), and she's been a staple there since 'Complicated' spent almost two months at #1 in 2002.

Ms. Clarkson is certainly NOT a core artist at Hot AC; her primary reason for getting airplay at Hot AC is because PDs out there know that some adult women do listen to CHR/Pop, and since CHR/Pop and Hot AC have always shared artists since Hot AC came along in 1992, and they feel that she can merit airplay at Hot AC just for that reason.

She's a lightweight pop singer, as are numerous core artists at today's top 40 radio.

I also agree about WZPL; it has zero business playing any rap music as a Hot AC station.

It makes no sense to play music which alienates your core audience as rap does; that PD is clueless.

[Kid Pulse]

marv said:

'Complicated' spent almost two months at #1 in 2002.

It was actually almost four months.

[musicfanpete]

crashed said:

musicfanpete said:

That's probably the main reason my Hot AC station WTMX in Chicago never did add this, which I commend them for even though I do actually like the song, minus the lyrics of course.

Back to the whole pop vs modern sound Hot AC debate, the Mix's ratings have gone up since they have become more CHR leaning. Then again, who knows if that trend will continue over the next couple of books. It's working now since they are competing against two very rhythmic leaning CHR's, but who knows how long that trend will continue.

I have to give kudos to the Mix for adding "All Good Things (Come To An End)" by Nelly Furtado, despite being a bust elsewhere. If more Hot AC stations added eclectic songs like this, the ratings would go sky high!

We have the same station. I still love their playlist although I hated that they added Beautiful Girls. Thank god, I haven't heard it in a while.

I think they have relegated it to overnights (see their music log). I guess that shows not many of their listeners really bought into that song.

Now Rihanna on the other hand has done very well with every song they have played! She can sing the phone book and I would like it!

[musicfanpete]

marv said:

Ms. Lavigne certainly is a core artist at Hot AC; she's among the top three or four females at the format (Sheryl Crow is clearly #1, as she has been throughout the format's 15+ years), and she's been a staple there since 'Complicated' spent almost two months at #1 in 2002.

Ms. Clarkson is certainly NOT a core artist at Hot AC; her primary reason for getting airplay at Hot AC is because PDs out there know that some adult women do listen to CHR/Pop, and since CHR/Pop and Hot AC have always shared artists since Hot AC came along in 1992, and they feel that she can merit airplay at Hot AC just for that reason.

She's a lightweight pop singer, as are numerous core artists at today's top 40 radio.

I also agree about WZPL; it has zero business playing any rap music as a Hot AC station.

It makes no sense to play music which alienates your core audience as rap does; that PD is clueless.

Agreed 100%! Yes.com showed that they played "Lose Yourself" by Eminem early yesterday evening. What is that?! They were a heritage CHR/Pop station back in the 80's and early 90's. Why don't they go back and report to the mainstream CHR panel then if they are going to continue to play Eminem and 50 Cent?

It's so obvious they are undergoing an identity crisis. Even more perplexing is why they are stopping short of playing rap currents. As you said Marv, they have a PD that does not know what he or she is doing, and though their ratings are probably still decent, eventually it will catch up with them and bite them you know where. They have to decide quickly what to do because when a supposed "Hot AC" station plays more rap than Star 94 in Atlanta, a supposed mainstream "CHR" station, then you know there is a lot of confusion on what the Hot AC format is to WZPL. Hopefully they can straighten things out before their ratings really tank.

[atlantaboy]

marv said:

I agree---the day that rap becomes as prevalent at Hot AC as it is at top 40 will mark the death of what was the best format in existence from 1992 throughout most of the nineties, and the VERY late nineties were exceptional.

The format was never designed as one where rap music could be heard in the first place; one of the most-used positioning statements at the format throughout its 15 1/2 year history has been something in the vein of 'Today's Best Music Without The Rap & Hard Rock'.

Sorry if I keep repeating this...but that's completely true - Hot AC is a format WITHOUT RAP AND HARD ROCK - SO... if a station (like WZPL or KYSR) plays rap/R&B or hard rock (including Rihanna, Timabaland, 30 Seconds To Mars, Linkin Park, etc.) that station IS A CHR!!! IMO it's not that HAC is changing - it's that stations like WZPL, WKRQ, and KYSR etc. are reporting to the wrong panel!!!

WZPL and WKRQ were CHRs for most of their history anyway, and KYSR is becoming much more current-based b/c KIIS has become essentially rhythmic

[atlantaboy]

video545 said:

And I don't know what's up with people bashing the lyrics of "When You're Gone", but nobody complains about the lyrics in "U + Ur Hand", a song about wacking off that went top 5 on a so-called "soccer mom" format.

Another example of Hot AC abandoning core artists is that John Mayer is being favored by Elliot Yamin. Also, they're favoring Fall Out Boy over The Fray. The only real hopes with me right now are "Bubbly" and of course, "Over You". The bullet is pathetically small for that song now.

Don't think Eliot Yamin is being favored over John Mayer as an artist - it's just that John Mayer doesn't have any quality singles out right now - Hot AC isn't gonna play "Dreaming With A Broken Heart" more than "Wait For You" just b/c it's by John Mayer - HAC needs popular songs to keep it going

Sorry to keep dwelling on this "When You're Gone" thang - it's not that the song is about anything objectionable, it's just that Avril Lavigne has decided to go to a teen/pop sound with teen/pop lyrics...I have a really hard time getting through the song w/o laughing at the lyrics which sound like New Kids On The Block, Jessica Simpson, etc.

[atlantaboy]

marv said:

Ms. Lavigne certainly is a core artist at Hot AC; she's among the top three or four females at the format (Sheryl Crow is clearly #1, as she has been throughout the format's 15+ years), and she's been a staple there since 'Complicated' spent almost two months at #1 in 2002.

She's switched up her style though on her current CD and has been tryin to appeal to CHR rather than HAC (teen listeners)

I agree that her she WAS a core HAC artist with her last two CDs, but this one has much more of a teen/pop sound

[atlantaboy]

marv said:

I also agree about WZPL; it has zero business playing any rap music as a Hot AC station.

It makes no sense to play music which alienates your core audience as rap does; that PD is clueless.

WZPL (and WTMX) aren't alienating their core audiences b/c their core audiences are 25-34 (NOT 34-54!!!) - that's why they need to be reporting to the CHR PANEL!!! (esp. WZPL)

The PD isn't clueless - they are just categorized as the wrong format (they are not an 80s 90s and today station) - WTMX is the only real CHR station that Chicago has, since WKSC is now essentially rhtyhmic

[musicfanpete]

atlantaboy said:

marv said:

I also agree about WZPL; it has zero business playing any rap music as a Hot AC station.

It makes no sense to play music which alienates your core audience as rap does; that PD is clueless.

WZPL (and WTMX) aren't alienating their core audiences b/c their core audiences are 25-34 (NOT 34-54!!!) - that's why they need to be reporting to the CHR PANEL!!! (esp. WZPL)

The PD isn't clueless - they are just categorized as the wrong format (they are not an 80s 90s and today station) - WTMX is the only real CHR station that Chicago has, since WKSC is now essentially rhtyhmic

True, but the difference between WZPL and the Mix in Chicago is that the Mix does not play Eminem or 50 Cent. But atlantaboy, you do make a good point for both of them reporting to the CHR panel rather than the Hot AC panel.

Still though, I don't have a problem with Hot AC's playing some rhythmic music, as long as they stay away from rap and hard rock. I don't think playing a little Rihanna or Gym Class Heroes automatically disqualifies a station from being classified a Hot AC. I think it ultimately depends on how much rhythmic music, and especially how much rap a station plays that would ultimately determine what panel a station should report to.

[mrclimbfall20]

Technically KYSR is a Modern AC station, which wikipedia describes as:

a popular and influential hybrid radio format. It combines softer alternative rock and upbeat adult contemporary (aka Hot AC) elements.

The Modern AC format has a slightly younger target audience than the standard adult contemporary format. The format is much more upbeat and concentrates heavily on current hits and songs from the past year. There is also a heavier concentration on modern rock hits.

[atlantaboy]

mrclimbfall20 said:

Technically KYSR is a Modern AC station, which wikipedia describes as:

a popular and influential hybrid radio format. It combines softer alternative rock and upbeat adult contemporary (aka Hot AC) elements.

The Modern AC format has a slightly younger target audience than the standard adult contemporary format. The format is much more upbeat and concentrates heavily on current hits and songs from the past year. There is also a heavier concentration on modern rock hits.

Yeah I think Modern AC should be reporting to CHR b/c it's almost completely current-hit focused (rather than 80s, 90s, and today focused) - and b/c it appeals to a younger target demogaphic

If you have "The Kill" by 30 Seconds To Mars or "What I've Done" by Linkin Park in high rotation, or commonly play rap recurrents, I don't see how your station fits into the "Hot AC" category, since Hot AC is supposed to avoid hard rock and rap

BTW look at the playlist for WKRQ/Cincinatti - it def. needs to be moved to CHR...they're playin THREE different songs by Timbaland all in high rotation (including one that isn't even a single yet), "Lovestoned", "I Got It From My Mama" by WILL.I.AM, "Me Love", and "Hate That I Love You" by Rihanna

[Hot AC Archiver]

Yes WKRQ definitely needs to leave the HAC panel. I wish Mediabase had a public email where we could point things out like that and ask questions!

Just for fun, here's a sample hour from the small market HAC station that I like. It's taken from a Saturday afternoon:

Breathe (2am) - Anna Nalick
River of Dreams - Billy Joel
Over You - Daughtry
Fortress Around Your Heart - Sting
You're Beautiful - James Blunt
Ever the Same - Rob Thomas
Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This) - Eurythmics
Big Girls Don't Cry (Personal) - Fergie
Everything - Michael Buble
Time (Clock of the Heart) - Culture Club
Follow Me - Uncle Kracker
Margaritaville - Jimmy Buffet
Sweet Escape - Gwen Stefani
Wait for You - Elliot Yamin
A Moment Like This - Kelly Clarkson
Suddenly I See - KT Tunstall