musicfanpete
2x Platinum Member
Joined: January 2007
Posts: 2,194
|
Post by musicfanpete on Sept 9, 2007 17:30:28 GMT -5
Yes WKRQ definitely needs to leave the HAC panel. I wish Mediabase had a public email where we could point things out like that and ask questions! Just for fun, here's a sample hour from the small market HAC station that I like. It's taken from a Saturday afternoon: Breathe (2am) - Anna Nalick River of Dreams - Billy Joel Over You - Daughtry Fortress Around Your Heart - Sting You're Beautiful - James Blunt Ever the Same - Rob Thomas Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This) - Eurythmics Big Girls Don't Cry (Personal) - Fergie Everything - Michael Buble Time (Clock of the Heart) - Culture Club Follow Me - Uncle Kracker Margaritaville - Jimmy Buffet Sweet Escape - Gwen Stefani Wait for You - Elliot Yamin A Moment Like This - Kelly Clarkson Suddenly I See - KT Tunstall Sounds a lot like Nine-FM from suburban Chicago. They are an eclectic sounding Hot AC station during the day and early evening, and a dance station from 9 PM to 5 AM. As for the Hot AC portion of their day goes, they play many songs that most Hot AC's have dropped a long time ago. Once in awhile they do throw in a rap gold song, but with their most active currents only receiving roughly 20 spins per week, the probably would still qualify as a Hot AC.
|
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Sept 9, 2007 17:59:12 GMT -5
As I said earlier, I have no idea why WZPL isn't on the top 40 panel, and the same goes for WKRQ.
I also agree that a Hot AC station can play 'rhythmic music' (KBIG plays tons of the stuff), but that rap music such as 50 Cent & The Game are out of the question at Hot AC radio; the format was explicitly designed for adults who wanted to hear today's current hits with zero rap music.
Those PDs @ WZPL & WKRQ are violating rule#1 of radio station programming, which is never play anything that will alienate your core audience.
Put it another way; country radio has gained tons of listeners under the age of 25 over the past 18-30 months thanks to the presence of artists such as Rascal Flatts, Big & Rich, Gretchen Wilson & Carrie Underwood, all of whom enjoy substantial appeal from the under-25 crowd.
But NO country PD is going to pursue those 12-24 year olds deliberately by loading up on the BEP or Ms. Lavigne, unless he/she is an idiot waiting to get canned and/or destroy their radio station.
Alienating your core audience by adding music which has zero business being on your radio station is indefensibly dumb.
It is 100% pointless for any HOT AC station to try and out- CHR a CHR/Pop station, just as it is equally 100% pointless for a Country station to try and out-CHR a CHR/Pop station.
Since no country station is going to piss off their core audience by playing Metallica or 3DD, it similarly makes no sense for any Hot AC station to be playing Avril Lavigne & MB20 alongside 50 Cent & Eminem.
Rock/AOR stations PD far and wide admitted throughout the eighties that the vast majority of them made a gigantic blunder in 1983 by playing MJ's 'Beat It' solely because of the presence of Eddie Van Halen.
No AOR PD back then was going to risk trying to outdo and/or impersonate their CHR/Pop competitor by playing 'Beat It' the 40-50+ times per week that a KIIS/WZPL/Q105/WNCI routinely did as well; any AOR (Album-Oriented Rock) station trying to out-CHR a CHR/Pop station is bound to alienate their core audience (men 25-54) for no intelligent reason!!!
It was a disaster for Rock stations to play 'Beat It' in 1983, and it is certainly a disaster for HOT AC to be playing Eminem or 50 Cent anytime over the past several years.
Rhythmic music is fine at Hot AC radio today (as it was throughout a huge chunk of the nineties), but rap is not.
12-17, 12-24 and 18-34 are three listening cells with vastly different musical tastes as opposed to 18-49, 25-44 and 25-54 stations; as atlantaboy points out; trying to be a poser (something you'll never be) is NO way to program a radio station.
|
|
musicfanpete
2x Platinum Member
Joined: January 2007
Posts: 2,194
|
Post by musicfanpete on Sept 9, 2007 21:18:57 GMT -5
As I said earlier, I have no idea why WZPL isn't on the top 40 panel, and the same goes for WKRQ. I also agree that a Hot AC station can play 'rhythmic music' (KBIG plays tons of the stuff), but that rap music such as 50 Cent & The Game are out of the question at Hot AC radio; the format was explicitly designed for adults who wanted to hear today's current hits with zero rap music. Those PDs @ WZPL & WKRQ are violating rule#1 of radio station programming, which is never play anything that will alienate your core audience. Put it another way; country radio has gained tons of listeners under the age of 25 over the past 18-30 months thanks to the presence of artists such as Rascal Flatts, Big & Rich, Gretchen Wilson & Carrie Underwood, all of whom enjoy substantial appeal from the under-25 crowd. But NO country PD is going to pursue those 12-24 year olds deliberately by loading up on the BEP or Ms. Lavigne, unless he/she is an idiot waiting to get canned and/or destroy their radio station. Alienating your core audience by adding music which has zero business being on your radio station is indefensibly dumb. It is 100% pointless for any HOT AC station to try and out- CHR a CHR/Pop station, just as it is equally 100% pointless for a Country station to try and out-CHR a CHR/Pop station. Since no country station is going to piss off their core audience by playing Metallica or 3DD, it similarly makes no sense for any Hot AC station to be playing Avril Lavigne & MB20 alongside 50 Cent & Eminem. Rock/AOR stations PD far and wide admitted throughout the eighties that the vast majority of them made a gigantic blunder in 1983 by playing MJ's 'Beat It' solely because of the presence of Eddie Van Halen.No AOR PD back then was going to risk trying to outdo and/or impersonate their CHR/Pop competitor by playing 'Beat It' the 40-50+ times per week that a KIIS/WZPL/Q105/WNCI routinely did as well; any AOR (Album-Oriented Rock) station trying to out-CHR a CHR/Pop station is bound to alienate their core audience (men 25-54) for no intelligent reason!!!It was a disaster for Rock stations to play 'Beat It' in 1983, and it is certainly a disaster for HOT AC to be playing Eminem or 50 Cent anytime over the past several years. Rhythmic music is fine at Hot AC radio today (as it was throughout a huge chunk of the nineties), but rap is not. 12-17, 12-24 and 18-34 are three listening cells with vastly different musical tastes as opposed to 18-49, 25-44 and 25-54 stations; as atlantaboy points out; trying to be a poser (something you'll never be) is NO way to program a radio station. Excellent post! Well said. I agree with everything you said 100%.
|
|
shocker
Gold Member
Joined: March 2007
Posts: 815
|
Post by shocker on Sept 10, 2007 1:27:51 GMT -5
Well as I've said before, I thought the Hot AC format was starting to sound a bit stale with the vast majority of songs sounding so similar to one another. That's what I said for a long time. Around 1997 or so, Hot AC took on much more of an alternative-leaning sound that dominated the format until about 2 years ago. While the pop-alternative sound is more appealing to me than much of the crap on CHR, you're right that too many of those songs were sounding alike - especially in the Hot AC top 10. Yes, Hot AC is CHR more or less. Traditionally it's CHR that appeals to an adult audience. Pop crossovers are fine on this format as long as they're not too teen-sounding. A good example is Pink. Normally I can't stand her songs - "U + Ur Hand" was god-awful and really had no business on Hot AC; but her newer release "Who Knew" is much more adult-friendly and I wouldn't mind if that went top 3. Fergie is another example. I couldn't see "Fergalicious" being played on Hot AC, but "Big Girls Don't Cry" is a good mass-appeal CHR crossover. I just didn't expect it to be #1 on Hot AC.
|
|
shocker
Gold Member
Joined: March 2007
Posts: 815
|
Post by shocker on Sept 10, 2007 1:42:19 GMT -5
Sorry if I keep repeating this...but that's completely true - Hot AC is a format WITHOUT RAP AND HARD ROCK That slogan was very '90s-oriented. By the late '90s and early 2000's, many Hot ACs were going for a more modern-rock sound, and ended up playing artists that would be considered "hard rock". This may cause some disagreement, but many songs that Hot AC plays on a regular basis by Green Day, Fall Out Boy, and even Nickelback circa 2001-'02 are hard rock IMO. But one reason I stick to Hot AC is the lack of (c)rap. I think that's pretty much agreed on by everyone. Once in a while a song by Gorillaz or Outkast will be spun that I can half-way tolerate; but I can't see 50-Cent or even Kanye West being played here at all.
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Sept 10, 2007 17:00:40 GMT -5
Sorry if I keep repeating this...but that's completely true - Hot AC is a format WITHOUT RAP AND HARD ROCK But one reason I stick to Hot AC is the lack of (c)rap. I think that's pretty much agreed on by everyone. That's not true at all - just as many Hot AC listeners dislike hard rock as they do rap - both alienate the 35-54 demographic, so if a Hot AC station is gonna start playin hard rock they're also gonna start playin rap, which is happening right now (30 Seconds To Mars and Kanye West are both being played by Hot ACs, although they really should be CHRs IMO) Any Hot AC station that plays hard rock is appealing to a core demographic of 25-34, and this generation grew up on rap That's why IMO ur gonna see more and more rap on stations (now classified as Hot AC but I think they should be classified as CHR) that are appealing to this younger demo (with the exception of Modern AC's which have to stick to a particular sound)
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Sept 10, 2007 17:02:36 GMT -5
As I said earlier, I have no idea why WZPL isn't on the top 40 panel, and the same goes for WKRQ. THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS!!! Stations like these reporting to the HAC chart are messin up the CHR chart and makin it falsely rhythmic!!!
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Sept 10, 2007 17:04:41 GMT -5
Those PDs @ WZPL & WKRQ are violating rule#1 of radio station programming, which is never play anything that will alienate your core audience. Remember though that they're not alienating their core audiences cause their core audiences are more similar to CHRs (25-34) and less similar to an "80s 90s and today" Mix HAC station
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Sept 10, 2007 17:11:40 GMT -5
Sorry if I keep repeating this...but that's completely true - Hot AC is a format WITHOUT RAP AND HARD ROCK That slogan was very '90s-oriented. By the late '90s and early 2000's, many Hot ACs were going for a more modern-rock sound, and ended up playing artists that would be considered "hard rock". This may cause some disagreement, but many songs that Hot AC plays on a regular basis by Green Day, Fall Out Boy, and even Nickelback circa 2001-'02 are hard rock IMO. Gotta disagree w/ you on the definition of "hard rock" in the late 90s and 00s - Hot AC is still a format without rap and hard rock just as it was in the 90s, it's just that the definition of hard rock has changed since the advent of Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, Korn, Godsmack, etc. in the late 90s and 00s - Alternative started playing these bands, leaving Staind (ballads), Creed, Nickelback, Green Day (ballads) etc. as Hot AC bands that by 2002 or so were no longer considered hard rock
|
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Sept 11, 2007 9:47:26 GMT -5
My definition of hard rock was characterized by such 80s stalwarts as Aerosmith & Judas Priest, as well as Guns N' Roses, Van Halen & Motley Crue.
Many Hot AC stations have run a 'totally 80s weekend' from time to time, in which those bands get a hefty chunk of airplay; I don't recall whether the most recent CD from the Rolling Stones received any airplay at Hot AC; I'm also pretty sure that CHR/Pop didn't touch it either.
This 'clusterization' nonsense and 'superserving your target niche' objectives are asinine, IMHO.
I'd be very hard-pressed to think of a format which hasn't been negatively since the 1996 Telecommunications Act, including AC & Country.
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Sept 11, 2007 10:15:46 GMT -5
My definition of hard rock was characterized by such 80s stalwarts as Aerosmith & Judas Priest, as well as Guns N' Roses, Van Halen & Motley Crue. Many Hot AC stations have run a 'totally 80s weekend' from time to time, in which those bands get a hefty chunk of airplay Yeah lots of Hot ACs play 80s hard rock like Guns 'N Roses and Def Leppard...don't think they play Judas Priest though - the thing is they also play late 80s-early 90s rap like "Bust A Move" "U Can't Touch This" etc. on their "totally 80s weekends" or "80s Saturday Nights"
|
|
Kid Pulse
3x Platinum Member
I wanna be that someone that you're with.
Joined: April 2007
Posts: 3,957
|
Post by Kid Pulse on Sept 11, 2007 14:48:46 GMT -5
17 out of the top 20 songs have bullets today, including the entire top 10. Even with the huge -200 type drops "Home" and "Makes Me Wonder" had last week, I still wouldn't have expected to see them with a bullet.
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Sept 11, 2007 15:41:49 GMT -5
17 out of the top 20 songs have bullets today, including the entire top 10. Even with the huge -200 type drops "Home" and "Makes Me Wonder" had last week, I still wouldn't have expected to see them with a bullet. "This week" now covers last Tues. through this Mon. which is the full week after Labor Day Weekend (when a bunch of stations prob. had 80s weekends, "block party" weekends etc.) so a handful of stations this week have gone back to playin their currents at the "normal" level
|
|
Kid Pulse
3x Platinum Member
I wanna be that someone that you're with.
Joined: April 2007
Posts: 3,957
|
Post by Kid Pulse on Sept 11, 2007 19:58:27 GMT -5
^ Thanks, didn't even think of that.
|
|
musicfanpete
2x Platinum Member
Joined: January 2007
Posts: 2,194
|
Post by musicfanpete on Sept 11, 2007 20:50:38 GMT -5
17 out of the top 20 songs have bullets today, including the entire top 10. Even with the huge -200 type drops "Home" and "Makes Me Wonder" had last week, I still wouldn't have expected to see them with a bullet. "This week" now covers last Tues. through this Mon. which is the full week after Labor Day Weekend (when a bunch of stations prob. had 80s weekends, "block party" weekends etc.) so a handful of stations this week have gone back to playin their currents at the "normal" level That didn't help "Shut Up And Drive". It did not regain it's bullet which is quite surprising considering this song is more Hot AC friendly than "Umbrella"! ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png)
|
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Sept 11, 2007 22:16:51 GMT -5
I have no idea what the heck WZPL & WKRQ feel they have to gain by playing rap music; since WKFS and Indy's 'Radio Now' (WNOU) are going to play their 'power songs' anywhere from 90-110 times per week, let them do so.
Hot AC stations certainly don't have to play their power songs THAT much; 50-60 times per week is plenty.
Since Hot ACs do tend to have somehwta larger libraries than a CHR/Pop station, they can probably play their 'power songs' as few as 42 times a week, or once every four hours.
|
|
Kid Pulse
3x Platinum Member
I wanna be that someone that you're with.
Joined: April 2007
Posts: 3,957
|
Post by Kid Pulse on Sept 12, 2007 7:40:42 GMT -5
Little Rock's #1 song is by Michael Buble and played 31 times! :o
|
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Sept 12, 2007 11:13:24 GMT -5
Do they play enough current music to be on the Mediabase panel, or do they play a ton of gold tunes from the past 20+ years?
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Sept 12, 2007 17:06:23 GMT -5
I have no idea what the heck WZPL & WKRQ feel they have to gain by playing rap music; since WKFS and Indy's 'Radio Now' (WNOU) are going to play their 'power songs' anywhere from 90-110 times per week, let them do so. Hot AC stations certainly don't have to play their power songs THAT much; 50-60 times per week is plenty. WNOU is now COMPLETELY rhythmic (although it still reports to CHR pop)and WKFS is completely rhythmic with the exception of 2 songs (Plain White T's and "Rockstar") In other words the CHRs in these markets are now truly rhythmic (although Clear Channel prob. won't let these stations reclassify), so I think WKRQ and WZPL are now moving to fill in the hole in the market for mainstream CHR pop which really isn't there - in addition, Cincinnati already has another Mix-type Hot AC station to appeal to 25-54 females, so it makes sense that WKRQ is trying to appeal to a younger audience (and so far it's killing the Mix Hot AC station in ratings) I think both these stations are playin their top songs 70+ times a week, which is actually just below average for a CHR station Contrary to popular belief, only 25 CHR stations play their top songs more than 90 times per week, and only 16 play them 100 times a week or more (WKFS happens to be one of them)
|
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Sept 16, 2007 22:30:26 GMT -5
I'm not sure which CHR/Pop station started that gruesome trend of playing their 'powers' 100+ times per week; that's among the worst things to happen to the CHR/Pop format over the past 5+ years or so, IMHO.
That just burns your records out much quicker, and makes it pointless to add them to your recurrent library (or keep them there for more than 60-90 days before discarding them permanently) once they've been burnt to a crisp.
Thank goodness that Hot AC and other formats don't play their 'powers' nearly that much!!!
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Sept 17, 2007 16:49:07 GMT -5
I'm not sure which CHR/Pop station started that gruesome trend of playing their 'powers' 100+ times per week; that's among the worst things to happen to the CHR/Pop format over the past 5+ years or so, IMHO. There's actually only about 20 CHRs left that still play their power songs 100 times a week, and about 30 more that play them 90 times a week...most of them are in large markets where listeners spend much less time listening to the station per day, so have to hear their favorite song during the one hour when they do listen - there are some exceptions, like Dayton OH and Jacksonville FL (most of them are also owned by...Clear Channel!!!) Most smaller market CHRs actually play their power songs 50-70 times a week, cause their listeners on average spend much more time listening to the radio each day Anyhow, I hope the trend is dying down too ![](http://yoursmiles.org/ssmile/fun/s0270.gif) btw, I'm almost positive that that trend was started by WNOU/Indianapolis, cause I remember reading about its "programming novelty" when it came out >:(
|
|
Slinky
6x Platinum Member
Retired
Joined: December 2003
Posts: 6,777
|
Post by Slinky on Sept 18, 2007 11:57:03 GMT -5
Weren't Mike Joseph's Hot Hits stations in the early 80's the first to start spinning powers 100+ times a week? I don't think it's a new trend. From Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Hits"Hot Hits" stations played the Top 5 hits every hour and in between other hits on the current chart. The top hits on an average Hot Hits station had a turnover period of 45 minutes to an hour, thus guaranteeing that when listeners tuned in, they were more likely to hear a hit and less likely to hear a "stiff" or a "bomb.""Radio Now" shared some elements with the Hot Hits stations when it started (e.g. countdowns every hour), so it wouldn't surprise me if it was the first current CHR to bring back 100+ spin totals.
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on Sept 25, 2007 13:47:36 GMT -5
Kanye West's "Stronger" now has 37 plays on Hot AC - I think most are comin from WKRQ/Cincinatti but I'm not sure
|
|
EvanJ
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 6,371
|
Post by EvanJ on Oct 4, 2007 21:44:16 GMT -5
Contrary to popular belief, only 25 CHR stations play their top songs more than 90 times per week, and only 16 play them 100 times a week or more (WKFS happens to be one of them) Currently 32 stations on the CHR-Pop panel are playing "Who Knew" by Pink at least 90 times. Kanye West's "Stronger" now has 37 plays on Hot AC - I think most are comin from WKRQ/Cincinatti but I'm not sure It now has 67 spins on Hot AC, most of which are coming from two stations discussed in this topic (36 on WZPL and 19 on WKRQ).
|
|