churchchoir
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"Don't slip your hand under my shirt and tell me it's okay."
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Post by churchchoir on Nov 11, 2013 13:41:22 GMT -5
I don't really think MBH took a major push to get to #1, though. It had a pretty slow decent, virtually no struggling throughout its entire chart run, and a final push week bullet of 100 less than "See You Again." I usually go by how quickly a song decends as an indicator of how manufactured it was. Those were some great points made above, but I just can't comfortably call SYA a true #1 hit that just suffered from a million other songs being pushed up the chart when it fell from 1-9 on Mediabase in its first week of decent. I agree that the final week push for Brad Paisley's BTS may have slowed down SYA, but the struggling at #4 was unlike anything most true #1 hits experience and MBH didn't have any point in its chart run analogous to the struggling we saw in SYA's chart run. I think SYA is closer to the run of "Begin Again," and MBH was more similar to the likes of "Southern Girl" and "Hey Pretty Girl."
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on Nov 11, 2013 13:55:35 GMT -5
I don't really think MBH took a major push to get to #1, though. It had a pretty slow decent, virtually no struggling throughout its entire chart run, and a final push week bullet of 100 less than "See You Again." I usually go by how quickly a song decends as an indicator of how manufactured it was. Those were some great points made above, but I just can't comfortably call SYA a true #1 hit that just suffered from a million other songs being pushed up the chart when it fell from 1-9 on Mediabase in its first week of decent. The #1-#9 drop was due to "See You Again" having to wait out "Don't Ya" to achieve its due peak. On a natural chart, "Don't Ya" wouldn't have gotten ahead of "See You Again," and "See You Again" would have peaked first (and seen a more normal descent). And I already said "Mama's Broken Heart" is the bigger hit -- my point was that chart circumstances that had nothing to do with "Mama's Broken Heart" resulted in its chart situation not reflecting how big a hit it was. If this is a conversation you're interested in continuing, we should probably either continue it in PM or in a more appropriate thread...it no longer has anything to do with the CMA Awards.
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mylifeback
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Post by mylifeback on Nov 11, 2013 14:48:35 GMT -5
The only thing I'll say about the chart manipulation is it seems that you should either think it's OK or not OK and hold your position.
Every artist seemingly has his or her fans who will provide explanation/justification/excuses (take your pick, lol) for why and how the label gave a song a big (manipulative) push for a 1, 2, or 3 day peak in order to achieve the desired chart position. I think it's distasteful whether it's Taylor, Brad, Carrie, Tyler Farr, Tim, or any number of artists we've seen it happen with lately. And I like all these artists, so I'm not picking on anyone here. I'm just kind of tired of the "well it happened because this other song got a push when it shouldn't have" or "the song has an important message so it's OK" or "it would have been #1 anyway if that other song wouldn't have blocked it".
I just grow weary of the whole phenomenon and accompanying discussion about how it's the worst thing ever or how it's OK because some other labels screwed up the chart already.
Bringing it back to the CMAs, it's clear by the performance choices which songs the labels still want to push vs. new songs they aren't ready to promote yet. Is it generally up to the artist (label) to choose which songs they perform or does the CMA dictate that? I remember one year Chris Young performed Voices on one of these shows well after he'd had other songs out, and his explanation in the red carpet interview beforehand was that the show wanted him to do Voices.
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Zazie
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Post by Zazie on Nov 11, 2013 15:29:45 GMT -5
Thanks, Carrie fans, for not jumping all over me for using the harsh word "insecure" and not taking it as an insult. I didn't mean it insultingly, and you were nice about it. I see the way that Vince Gill's reward life was different from CU's because he did win Entertainer. But I still hold to the long view -- one of these years she'll get nominated, one of these years she'll win, but if she is self-confident enough not to go through overheated self-promotion, it may not happen until later. Maybe much later. And more power to her if she doesn't self-promote.
Can we have Gary Allan make one appearance on the show, just one, before returning to the discussion of how unfairly CU is treated? He's completely ignored, whether he has hits or not. It doesn't justify shortchanging Carrie, but there are artists who get an even shorter end of the stick.
I'm trying to decide about Dudley's reliance on Indicator peak positions to instruct us on songs that have been manipulated. I think that might work some of the time, but I wonder if it's fair to say that smaller markets behave the same way as larger ones when it comes to music preferences. I'm not sure we can hold the audience type constant. Couldn't it be, at least some of the time, that the responses would be different? Different enough to make the difference in a chart peak. Also, positions on Indicator are determined by spin totals, not audience size. Could that also account for some different results?
And even assuming the markets behave the same, overall, I'd need to see how big the margins are. If a given song failed to reach #1 on Indicator by a 10-spin margin, I'd dismiss the result.
I'm not saying she's suppressing evidence when it suits. I know that wouldn't happen. But I'm asking whether she's basing her inferences on a casual look at peak position or she's looking at the actual differences. This is science, right?
I never did say this about the show: best CMA show in years and years. I admit, I fast-forwarded past a few songs I was dreading, but there were a lot of songs that came across well, there was less distortion in the vocals (with some exceptions), and there was some genuine emotion, more than in most years. (And even though I'm one of Rascal Flatts' biggest detractors, I will cheerfully forgive their failure to sound psychedelic. Not in the cards. It was good that they even tried.)
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avalyn
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Post by avalyn on Nov 11, 2013 15:53:47 GMT -5
Bringing it back to the CMAs, it's clear by the performance choices which songs the labels still want to push vs. new songs they aren't ready to promote yet. Is it generally up to the artist (label) to choose which songs they perform or does the CMA dictate that? I remember one year Chris Young performed Voices on one of these shows well after he'd had other songs out, and his explanation in the red carpet interview beforehand was that the show wanted him to do Voices. The award shows pick I believe. I remember 2005 CMA's especially - Sugarland was originally going to do Just Might Make Me Believe and were asked rather to do Something More because there was too many ballads already being done that year. They try and find a balance with new vs old, ballad vs up tempo vs mid tempo, etc. Mainly because while there are die hard country fans that know all the current singles you have the casual and non-country fan watching too that might like the song that had been played all summer/year and know that over the rest of the singles/album. So they have to find a balance to please everyone. Hence why a lot of times it seems the awards will pick the song vs the artists. It might be something too where an artist might request to do a song but asked to do another. I swear I remember as well back in the day only ETOY nominees were able to choose what song they wanted. Hopefully this makes sense.
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mylifeback
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Post by mylifeback on Nov 11, 2013 16:10:10 GMT -5
The award shows pick I believe. I remember 2005 CMA's especially - Sugarland was originally going to do Just Might Make Me Believe and were asked rather to doing Something More because there was too many ballads already being done that year. They try and find a balance with new vs old, ballad vs up tempo vs mid tempo, etc. Mainly because while there are die hard country fans that know all the current singles you have the casual and non-country fan watching too that might like the song that had been played all summer/year and know that over the rest of the singles/album. So they have to find a balance to please everyone. Hence why a lot of times it seems the awards will pick the song vs the artists. It might be something too where an artist might request to do a song but asked to do another. I swear I remember as well back in the day only ETOY nominees were able to choose what song they wanted. Hopefully this makes sense. Thanks, that does make sense. I can definitely see them wanting some variety in tempo and style. I thought I saw a tweet that Jason was going to perform When She Says Baby, but then did Night Train, so maybe there was some back & forth with the CMA over the song choice. otoh, maybe that tweet was wrong or I'm misremembering it.
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joey2002
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Post by joey2002 on Nov 11, 2013 19:39:33 GMT -5
Can we have Gary Allan make one appearance on the show, just one, before returning to the discussion of how unfairly CU is treated? He's completely ignored, whether he has hits or not. It doesn't justify shortchanging Carrie, but there are artists who get an even shorter end of the stick. Yeah, Gary Allan is another one of the artists who routinely gets ignored. A while back he was asked why he was never on any award shows despite having hits... and he answered that it's complicated, but to some it up in one word, politics.
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carrieidol1
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Post by carrieidol1 on Nov 11, 2013 20:45:29 GMT -5
Can we have Gary Allan make one appearance on the show, just one, before returning to the discussion of how unfairly CU is treated? He's completely ignored, whether he has hits or not. It doesn't justify shortchanging Carrie, but there are artists who get an even shorter end of the stick. Yeah, Gary Allan is another one of the artists who routinely gets ignored. A while back he was asked why he was never on any award shows despite having hits... and he answered that it's complicated, but to some it up in one word, politics. There are many artists who are continually overlooked due to politics. Trace Adkins, Gary Allen, Chris Young, and quite a few others come to mind. Most of whom, however, aren't megastars to the same degree as many of the artists who are typically nominated. So it's still quite incomparable, in my opinion, to snubs of people like Toby Keith, Carrie Underwood, and others who do truly rank amongst the top stars of country music on a seemingly annual basis. Sure, Carrie isn't the best example of someone who is generally overlooked by voters, because she isn't with the "smaller" awards. When it comes to Entertainer of the Year though, Carrie's lack of a nomination still seems incredibly glaring - it sticks out like a sore thumb. This is especially apparent when considering the fact that she is generally respected and rewarded by her peers at other shows and organizations. revel8, Gary's political anecdote also goes to further prove the contrary of the situation with regards to voting. Despite what some might believe, call it a "conspiracy" theory if you will, there's quite a bit of politicking, campaigning, and manipulating behind the scenes. The example with Blake is just one of many campaign-themed parties, I'm sure. That's not to say there's anything wrong with campaigning, but it does happen and certainly impacts the voting process, sometimes unfairly. It's like a microscopic example of how politics work in the USA. It ends up being a situation in which connections, economics, and politics sometimes overbear merit and the specific criteria upon which votes are supposed to be based. That's not always the case, but based on current trends - it's becoming more apparent, blatant, and obvious on an annual basis. Miranda had a strong case for Female Vocalist relative to the other nominees, except Carrie I think. It's rather subjective, but looking at the description for Female Vocalist: "This award is based on individual musical performance on a solo album release. Award to artist". This criteria is hardly criteria, it leaves much to interpretation and opinion. So I definitely see how and why Miranda was given Female Vocalist. Based on overall success, though, and live performance (tour and general vocals), Carrie's year was bigger in pretty much every aspect. With that in mind, I think many felt this would be Carrie's year to win - as it's the first time since Miranda's "The House That Built Me" that a female other than Miranda was on top of the country music world, so to speak (disregarding Taylor, of course). By many accounts, more than ever since 2008, it seemed as if Carrie had a chance to win in 2013 due to her HUGE album and higher-than-usual critical acclaim. This wasn't the case, though, and one can't help but wonder how much politics had to do with it. I don't mean to imply that Miranda didn't/doesn't deserve her awards, but Carrie's case was stronger this year, in my opinion. I think that's the general conception of all this as well (or so it seems from this thread), but I could be wrong. There's nothing here I haven't said before, but I felt the need to reiterate, so pardon the redundancy. For the sake of not "beating a dead horse" any further, as stated by jlatn5b, I'll stop with that. ...For some odd reason, I couldn't find the criteria information at the CMA website, but I did find this (where I got the Female Vocalist criteria): countrymusic.about.com/od/awards/a/blcmaprocess_2.htm
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Post by countrygirl918 on Nov 11, 2013 21:58:48 GMT -5
Criteria for each of the categories, as well as a short description of the voting process, can be found on the CMA official site here.
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neally
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Everybody wants to throw it all away sometimes
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Post by neally on Nov 11, 2013 23:56:54 GMT -5
It seems to me that country radio is one of the most manipulated radio genres, no ? So many songs "wait their turn" to hit #1, spending usually just 1 week at #1, only to plummet immediately following this #1, as opposed to Pop/CHR, Hot AC, and even Rhymthic radio, which takes away from how special country radio #1s are compared to other genres. It is shocking just how many songs hit #1 per year on country radio compared to other genres. Thoughts ? I think it would be pretty naive to assume that other airplay genres, particularly CHR/Pop, are less manipulated. For instance, back in early 2005, Dr. Luke (Gottwald) posted on the Kelly Clarkson Express to reassure concerned fans that RCA had cleared a budget for "independent radio promotion" (a euphemism) to facilitate the advance of Kelly Clarkson's "Since U Been Gone" (likely due to callout that correctly predicted a good return on such an investment -- the point here is not that SUBG was a manufactured pop hit, but that extra promotion was practically de rigueur to become the hit that it deserved it be). I would say the difference is that country radio promotion, while expensive, is not nearly as expensive as CHR/Pop promotion, and that this somewhat "democratizes" the push process, allowing more labels to do it in service of more artists. I'm not doubting that other genres are also manipulated, but I think it would be more naive, as you say, to assume that country radio, perhaps for the reasons you mentioned, is one of most (if not the most) obviously manipulated charts as so many songs take their turn at #1. Let's review the number of #1s in 2012 per radio genre: Country Airplay: 34 Mainstream Top 40: 20 Hot AC: 9 R&B: 11 For example, two massive songs on Pop radio right now, 'Lorde' and 'Wrecking Ball' both peaked at #2 on Pop but have spent several weeks at #1 on the Hot 100 with massive sales and massive social media streams, showing just how difficult a Pop #1 is to achieve. Such huge songs on country radio would likely have "taken their turn" and been "pushed" easily to get to the #1 in this country revolving door to #1 pattern. It is not uncommon in country radio for artists to make radio rounds, guest host a weekend syndicated Countdown show, etc. to provide a final "push" to get their song to #1. I do not believe this occurs on other radio formats with ANYWHERE near the frequency of country radio. This melarky, IMO, is just laughable and speaks to the relative ease of a country #1 compared to other formats.......
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Post by tim on Nov 12, 2013 1:09:34 GMT -5
Can we have Gary Allan make one appearance on the show, just one, before returning to the discussion of how unfairly CU is treated? He's completely ignored, whether he has hits or not. It doesn't justify shortchanging Carrie, but there are artists who get an even shorter end of the stick. Yeah, Gary Allan is another one of the artists who routinely gets ignored. A while back he was asked why he was never on any award shows despite having hits... and he answered that it's complicated, but to some it up in one word, politics. Count me in as one who would love to see Gary Allan get more recognition from the CMA's. His Set You Free is hands down one of the top 5 country albums of the year (check out the great "Good As New" and "One More Time" as examples). I would have put that in as a nomination in place of Blake's mediocre release.
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Post by countrybamafan on Nov 12, 2013 20:26:59 GMT -5
Well, I normally write extremely long reviews of the CMA (and ACM) awards after the show is over, but many posts have been made that echo my thoughts. Miranda and Blake continue their power-couple reign unfortunately. It is disheartening to see their names right up there with some of the legends of country music in terms of Vocalist wins when, in my opinion, they aren't nearly ready. But it is what it is. As a Zac Brown Band fan, it is still a shame that they have not won Group of the Year, or even any other award at the CMA's except New Artist, despite their huge success over the years. No other artist, except for Carrie Underwood (and possibly Florida Georgia Line if they continue) have had a consistent string of country radio hits to begin a career, and yet, they cannot win. A shame. I will agree with Zazie that despite these negatives, the show was actually really good. Carrie and Brad's opening monologue was perhaps the best ever (It's amazing how they keep getting better and better). The performances were actually really good for the most part. I hardly detected any sound issues, which seems like a first for the CMA's. I also enjoyed the variety of different sounds. If country radio would play this variety, I don't think people would be complaining as much about the "bro-country" music that is out there now. There is a diverse country sound out there. Showcase this, country radio! One gripe about the award show (except for the actual "awards"). I felt way too much time was taken for the Taylor Swift achievement award. We get that she's probably the biggest star on the planet. I don't see the need to make such a big deal and give an award for that. It seems ironic this came at a time when Taylor's "country radio" success has been struggling....
Anyway, moving on...I thought it would be a neat idea to see how accurate everyone was with their predictions. Here are mine:
Entertainer of the Year My prediction: George Strait Who actually won: George Strait
Right on the money with this one! Glad to see.
Male Vocalist of the Year My prediction: Blake Shelton Who actually won: Blake Shelton
Sigh...unfortunately, I was correct.
Female Vocalist of the Year My prediction: Kacey Musgraves Who actually won: Miranda Lambert
A bigger sigh. I should have known Miranda would win, but I was hoping to see a change (although my first pick would have been Carrie). I guess it was too early for Kacey to win this award, especially with Miranda's lockhold on the award. And unless something radically changes with Carrie's music or her team/promotion, she probably won't be winning this award again.
Duo of the Year My prediction: Florida Georgia Line Who actually won: Florida Georgia Line
Although Florida Georgia Line is new, there really was no other duo who came close to their success. The only reason Thompson Square has been winning is because of Sugarland's absence (and the fact there is no other big duo, which makes it a big head-scratcher as to why the CMA’s expanded this category, of all categories, to six nominees). Unless another duo makes it big in the near future, or Sugarland makes a big comeback (which I am beginning to doubt), Florida Georgia Line will have a lockhold on this award for years to come.
Group of the Year My prediction: Little Big Town and The Band Perry (although I gave the edge to Little Big Town) Who actually won: Little Big Town
I figured this would be close between Little Big Town and The Band Perry, but I gave a slight edge to Little Big Town because I really don't see the group continuing to be an A-list star, unfortunately. I hope I'm wrong because they are a very talented group, but other than Pontoon (and Tornado did okay), they have fizzled out. I think The Band Perry has the best chance of winning the award next year, unless Lady A can rebound from their seemingly spiral decline. As I said earlier, it would be nice to see Zac Brown Band win the award at least once. They really deserve it.
Album of the Year My prediction: Same Trailer, Different Park, Kacey Musgraves Who actually won: Based On A True Story, Blake Shelton
This deserves a major face palm. I was not expecting Blake to win this at all. All the other albums have either sold better and/or had better reviews. I really thought that all the other albums had a better chance of winning. This really shows the power that Blake has right now, which is sad. After seeing Blake win this award and Male Vocalist, I was beginning to think he would win Entertainer yet again.
New Artist My prediction: Kacey Musgraves Who actually won: Kacey Musgraves
I was right about Kacey's win here. I'm sure Florida Georgia Line will win the award next year.
Single of the Year My prediction: Wagon Wheel Who actually won: Cruise
Well, I made a misstep here. I thought that Wagon Wheel would win because it just seems much less controversial, but after seeing the huge crowd response to Florida Georgia Line opening and later singing Cruise, I then had a feeling Cruise would win this.
Song of the Year My prediction: Merry Go Round Who actually won: I Drive Your Truck
This is another award I am very shocked about. I thought I Drive Your Truck had virtually no chance of winning. I do like the song, though, so no complaints. Just shocked.
Video of the Year My prediction: Mama's Broken Heart (although it was originally Highway Don't Care) Who actually won: Highway Don't Care
I want to face palm myself now. I had Highway Don't Care winning, but I changed my mind because I figured the CMA's would want to award Miranda for Mama's Broken Heart. Well, they did award Miranda, just in a different way than I would have preferred. Oh well.
Musical Event of the Year My prediction: Highway Don't Care Who actually won: Highway Don't Care
Glad to see the power of Blake Shelton and Miranda Lambert did not win out here.
So, I got 6 out of 11 correct, so that’s over 50%. Not too bad. If I hadn’t changed my mind about Video of the Year, I would have had 7. And, if I had went with the obvious choices for Female Vocalist and Single of the Year, I would have gotten 9 (Instead, I let my negative bias against Miranda get the best of me for Female, and I overthought Single). Oh well.
Oh, and I also got this right.
And, relating to Luke Bryan, I was correct.
Overall, I think my predictions were pretty solid. How did you guys do??
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Post by countryfan4life on Nov 22, 2013 21:13:37 GMT -5
I know the CMAs happened over 2 weeks ago, but I still wanted to put I'm my thoughts. I'll start with how I did with my predictions:
Entertainer of the Year My Prediction: George Strait Won: George Strait I still would have liked to see Luke win this, but I get why the CMA gave it to George.
Male Vocalist of the Year My Prediction: Luke Bryan Won: Blake Shelton I have nothing against Blake, but I thought Luke had this.
Female Vocalist of the Year My Prediction: Kacey Musgraves Won: Miranda Lambert I had a feeling I may have favored Kacey too much in my predictions, but I really didn't think Miranda would walk away with this again. I was hoping for Carrie.
Vocal Group of the Year My Prediction: Little Big Town Won: Little Big Town The Band Perry had a chance, but I had a feeling it would go LBT's direction again.
Vocal Duo of the Year My Prediction: Thompson Square Won: Florida Georgia Line I was not surprised in the least, but I gave the edge to Thompson Square since they are not as new. FGL had a huge year so I'm not complaining.
New Artist Of The Year My Prediction: Kacey Musgraves Won: Kacey Musgraves No surprise here.
Album of the Year My Prediction: Kacey Musgraves, "Same Trailer Different Park" Won: Blake Shelton, "Based on a True Story" I thought Kacey had this one based on all the critical acclaim she's had. I didn't think Blake had a chance.
Single of the Year My Prediction: Florida Georgia Line, "Cruise" Won: Florida Georgia Line, "Cruise" This song was massive, it would have been wrong if it didn't win.
Song of the Year My Prediction: "Mama's Broken Heart" Won: "I Drive Your Truck" I was so pleasantly surprised and excited to see this win.
Musical Event of the Year My Prediction: Jason Aldean With Luke Bryan and Eric Church, "The Only Way I Know" Won: Tim McGraw With Taylor Swift & Keith Urban, "Highway Don't Care" Both songs would have been worthy so there's nothing to complain about.
Music Video of the Year My Prediction: Tim McGraw, "Highway Don't Care" Won: Tim McGraw, "Highway Don't Care" Would have liked to see "Blown Away" but this was a good video too.
I thought the show itself was awesome. I loved the opening performance with Luke and FGL! It gets my award for the most fun performance if of the night. Loved their little "floatin down the Flint river" dance move. Then there was Brad and Carrie. That opening monologue had me in tears from laughing so hard and I loved Zac and Luke hugging it out: The whole thing was just brilliant. Best performances of the night go to Luke Bryan and the duet between Miranda and Keith. You could tell that Luke poured his heart into that performance and he sang his face off. I may have teared up a little. As for We Were Us, was it me or was this the best Miranda has looked and sounded on an awards show!? Loved both of them. Then Taylor's performance with Vince and Allison was surprisingly brilliant. Taylor is at her best when she performs songs that are slower and more acoustic. The Kenny Rodgers tribute was another one of the most fun moments of the night, still wish Dolly showed up though. I loved seeing Rascal Flatts on the CMA stage again even if it was just for the tribute. Hunter Hayes and Jason Mraz were great. Despite Jason either missing his cue or messing up the words at the beginning, they were still professional and their harmonies were beautiful.
This has nothing to do with the performances or awards, but can I request that Luke Bryan wears bow ties at every formal televised event? He looked so nice! Also he and his wife Caroline are so adorable and beautiful together I just can't stand it.
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