Pipa
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Post by Pipa on Jul 5, 2014 23:03:23 GMT -5
Haha, I love this guy's attempts to try and prove Linkin Park isn't an Alternative act when there is overwhelming evidence that they clearly are. If Linkin Park isn't Alternative, then neither is Faith No More, Rage Against the Machine, Depeche Mode, Nine Inch Nails, and all their other influences. And that's just stupid. Also, sorry for the double post, but...ok, I'm not really sorry, it's just customary.
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Post by Best In The World on Jul 6, 2014 8:38:02 GMT -5
It is worth noting that Linkin Park's early singles performed better on active rock than alternative, likely due to their heaviness and attitude. "One Stel Closer" hit #1 on Active while I believe missing the top 5 on Altenrnative.
This idea that they "started" as an Alternative-only band couldn't be any more incorrect.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 6, 2014 9:07:50 GMT -5
It is worth noting that Linkin Park's early singles performed better on active rock than alternative, likely due to their heaviness and attitude. "One Stel Closer" hit #1 on Active while I believe missing the top 5 on Altenrnative. This idea that they "started" as an Alternative-only band couldn't be any more incorrect. This is false. One Step Closer hit #5 on Alternative and #4 on Active. Crawling hit #5 on Alternative and #3 on Active. However, In the End, the megasmash hit, went to #1 on Alternative and #3 on Active. Likewise, the 5 #1s on Meteora is an Alternative-only accomplishment. After "In the End", all songs charted higher on Alternative than Active until "Lost in the Echo" went to #7 on Active and #12 on Alternative. Only 5 songs by them have charted higher on Active than Alt - "Crawling", "One Step Closer", "Lost in the Echo", "Guilty All the Same" and "Until It's Gone". The other 20 charted higher on Alt.
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Post by balletgirlmom on Jul 6, 2014 9:46:48 GMT -5
Tennis Court is a great song and is slowly gaining airplay. Team still is stronger though.
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Post by Best In The World on Jul 6, 2014 9:55:32 GMT -5
It is worth noting that Linkin Park's early singles performed better on active rock than alternative, likely due to their heaviness and attitude. "One Stel Closer" hit #1 on Active while I believe missing the top 5 on Altenrnative. This idea that they "started" as an Alternative-only band couldn't be any more incorrect. This is false. One Step Closer hit #5 on Alternative and #4 on Active. Crawling hit #5 on Alternative and #3 on Active. However, In the End, the megasmash hit, went to #1 on Alternative and #3 on Active. Likewise, the 5 #1s on Meteora is an Alternative-only accomplishment. After "In the End", all songs charted higher on Alternative than Active until "Lost in the Echo" went to #7 on Active and #12 on Alternative. Only 5 songs by them have charted higher on Active than Alt - "Crawling", "One Step Closer", "Lost in the Echo", "Guilty All the Same" and "Until It's Gone". The other 20 charted higher on Alt. You're wrong. "One Step Closer" and "In The End" both hit #1 on Active. Also, "Bleed It Out" hit #1 on Active and #2 on Alternative.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 6, 2014 10:12:23 GMT -5
This is false. One Step Closer hit #5 on Alternative and #4 on Active. Crawling hit #5 on Alternative and #3 on Active. However, In the End, the megasmash hit, went to #1 on Alternative and #3 on Active. Likewise, the 5 #1s on Meteora is an Alternative-only accomplishment. After "In the End", all songs charted higher on Alternative than Active until "Lost in the Echo" went to #7 on Active and #12 on Alternative. Only 5 songs by them have charted higher on Active than Alt - "Crawling", "One Step Closer", "Lost in the Echo", "Guilty All the Same" and "Until It's Gone". The other 20 charted higher on Alt. You're wrong. "One Step Closer" and "In The End" both hit #1 on Active. Also, "Bleed It Out" hit #1 on Active and #2 on Alternative. Wrong.
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Post by Best In The World on Jul 6, 2014 10:28:22 GMT -5
You're wrong. "One Step Closer" and "In The End" both hit #1 on Active. Also, "Bleed It Out" hit #1 on Active and #2 on Alternative. Wrong. No, you're the one who's wrong. I've been following the formats since you didn't even know what they were and I know what the hell I'm talking about.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 10:55:18 GMT -5
one step closer got to 4 on active
lol
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Post by Best In The World on Jul 6, 2014 11:02:38 GMT -5
one step closer got to 4 on active lol No, it got to #4 on Billboard's Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks chart, which factors in both active rock and heritage rock airplay.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 13:25:23 GMT -5
soree I am uneducated little boy
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Web
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Post by Web on Jul 6, 2014 15:31:16 GMT -5
Hey I don't care about Linkin Park's status as an Alternative group or not (they're clearly Alternative and anyone who doesn't think so is deranged or just attempting to troll the Rock board for kicks)....
but has anyone noticed Tennis Court is starting to have a rough time holding a bullet? At this rate I'm guessing it won't hit Top 10. Switching singles when one was already established looks like the it was wrong move at this point. It's not doing anything on Pop either, whereas the first two singles vaulted from an Alt #1 to a Pop #1. It isn't crossing over well with such a low Alt peak.
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Cody
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Post by Cody on Jul 6, 2014 15:39:10 GMT -5
one step closer got to 4 on active lol No, it got to #4 on Billboard's Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks chart, which factors in both active rock and heritage rock airplay. Yeah, and back then it wasn't even spins that determined postion, it was audience for BB Mainstream Rock, wasn't it? I do believe you're right in that "Crawling" was a mediabase active #1, I just don't remember how "One Step Closer" did.
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Jul 6, 2014 17:38:42 GMT -5
I guess the magoraty of you are younger than ,say 35, because noone ever mentions the 80's when alternative was basically New Wave, Synth Pop. That music is really the roots of Alternative, not that Nirvana grungy stuff. Some of it is ok, but not where alternative derives from. Alternative, Real alternative, were bands Like XTC, The Pretenders, The Cure,The Smiths, Oingo Boingo, even The Ramones. never heard of them? Check em out on Youtube. they never really fell in the New wave/Synth Pop catagory. I love the way Alternative has morphed back into the Synth Pop days. Now if only the Billboard Hot 100 would recognize that this new era of Alt/Indie Pop Rock is supioror to that Rap and Country stuff that saturates the chart, then they would actually have a decent chart on thier hands.
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Pipa
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Post by Pipa on Jul 6, 2014 19:16:56 GMT -5
^ Have you been in the General Rock Discussion thread? We just had an extensive discussion about this.
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Khia
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Post by Khia on Jul 6, 2014 20:01:50 GMT -5
Now if only the Billboard Hot 100 would recognize that this new era of Alt/Indie Pop Rock is supioror to that Rap and Country stuff that saturates the chart, then they would actually have a decent chart on thier hands. You say this as if Billboard just chooses each song's placement on the chart. It's very simple: The Hot 100 is based on airplay, sales, and streaming. Alternative and Rock songs get less airplay and generally have lower digital sales and streaming numbers than rap and country songs, unless they are crossover hits.
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Devin
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Post by Devin on Jul 6, 2014 20:39:02 GMT -5
Now if only the Billboard Hot 100 would recognize that this new era of Alt/Indie Pop Rock is supioror to that Rap and Country stuff that saturates the chart, then they would actually have a decent chart on thier hands. You say this as if Billboard just chooses each song's placement on the chart. It's very simple: The Hot 100 is based on airplay, sales, and streaming. Alternative and Rock songs get less airplay and generally have lower digital sales and streaming numbers than rap and country songs, unless they are crossover hits. I had this exact conversation with him in "The Walker" thread. I don't think he'll ever understand the mechanics of the Hot 100 chart.
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Post by Best In The World on Jul 7, 2014 0:00:32 GMT -5
No, it got to #4 on Billboard's Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks chart, which factors in both active rock and heritage rock airplay. Yeah, and back then it wasn't even spins that determined postion, it was audience for BB Mainstream Rock, wasn't it? I do believe you're right in that "Crawling" was a mediabase active #1, I just don't remember how "One Step Closer" did. That's a good question. It wouldn't surprise me if they were using audience back then, or some sort of combo of audience and spins. According to this, "One Step Closer" spent a week at #1. As for "Crawling," I'm pretty sure that peaked at #2 sometime during the reign of "Schism" but I'm not positive.
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Jul 8, 2014 7:12:16 GMT -5
Khia
Actually I'm just passing on info from ex Dee Jays and promoters that left thier radio carreers because of the manipulation of certain record companies. Don't be so naive to believe it's fair game on that HOT 100 chart. Everything there is manipulated to a certain point. That 's actually a word one of the members came up with and I think it perfectly expresses what's going on. If you just think a little about what I'm trying to convey; just like I did when I first heard it, then it will start to make a little more sense.
So, I'm really getting too much into this , but would like to know which is the actual thread where I can continue discussing this topic more freely.
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Devin
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Post by Devin on Jul 8, 2014 8:08:44 GMT -5
Khia Actually I'm just passing on info from ex Dee Jays and promoters that left thier radio carreers because of the manipulation of certain record companies. Don't be so naive to believe it's fair game on that HOT 100 chart. Everything there is manipulated to a certain point. That 's actually a word one of the members came up with and I think it perfectly expresses what's going on. If you just think a little about what I'm trying to convey; just like I did when I first heard it, then it will start to make a little more sense. So, I'm really getting too much into this , but would like to know which is the actual thread where I can continue discussing this topic more freely. You can use the General Rock Disussion thread if you like. Anyways, I already explained to you that it's the variables that make up the Hot 100 that can be manipulated, NOT the actual Billboard Hot 100 chart. The reason rap and country get further up the chart than songs charting on alternative is the fact that there are more than twice the amount of country stations and urban stations than there are alternative stations, which means they move twice as as high or more up the chart. Besides that, country and urban songs tend to sell a lot better than alternative songs and they also tend to be streamed much more, which also contributes to their higher placements on the Hot 100.
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Post by onefrayedrepublic on Jul 8, 2014 20:45:09 GMT -5
There's definitely an argument to be made about the poppification of alternative. That argument does not include a demand for the format to play more Linkin Park. When did people forget that Linkin Park is the epitome of a corporate sellout act? It's literally #2 on that list behind Nickelback and one of the first things people point to when they complain about the joke genre that is rap-metal. It's like the bizarro world when I read any Linkin Park related thread on Pulse (not to mention Mike Shinoda ripping bands with actual talent every chance he gets). Lorde is far more "alternative" than Linkin Park. The fuck are you talking about? Who else would release their best album, A Thousand Suns, that was obviously going to be a massive commercial flop, simply because it was damn good music and they were proud of it. A "corporate sellout" would never ever ever release "The Catalyst" as a lead single. How dare you compare them to Nickelback. What's wrong with you?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 20:54:57 GMT -5
ladies and gents, the very opinionated douche from the YouTube comments
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Lordef†ones
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Post by Lordef†ones on Jul 10, 2014 16:37:58 GMT -5
There's definitely an argument to be made about the poppification of alternative. That argument does not include a demand for the format to play more Linkin Park. When did people forget that Linkin Park is the epitome of a corporate sellout act? It's literally #2 on that list behind Nickelback and one of the first things people point to when they complain about the joke genre that is rap-metal. It's like the bizarro world when I read any Linkin Park related thread on Pulse (not to mention Mike Shinoda ripping bands with actual talent every chance he gets). Lorde is far more "alternative" than Linkin Park. The f**k are you talking about? Who else would release their best album, A Thousand Suns, that was obviously going to be a massive commercial flop, simply because it was damn good music and they were proud of it. A "corporate sellout" would never ever ever release "The Catalyst" as a lead single. How dare you compare them to Nickelback. What's wrong with you? That was their worst album and was definitely a sellout to cash into the pop crowd.
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Post by onefrayedrepublic on Jul 14, 2014 0:50:09 GMT -5
If it was a sellout album, it certainly wasn't executed very well. Normally you don't put 6 minute songs that don't sound anything like your entire previous corpus of work out as lead singles if you're just trying to sellout and make some $$$.
Did you hear Wretches and Kings or Blackout off that album. So poppy!
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Post by Shadows in the Dark on Jul 27, 2014 22:23:43 GMT -5
15 20 LORDE Tennis Court 667 846 -179 2.434
This died a quick swift death.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2014 22:25:09 GMT -5
alright, we'll be lorde free for maybe a year
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Post by Shadows in the Dark on Jul 27, 2014 22:28:33 GMT -5
alright, we'll be lorde free for maybe a year Hopefully longer. I think people are getting a bit tired of her now, as evidenced by this song "not sailing into the Top 10."
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Web
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Post by Web on Jul 28, 2014 14:04:34 GMT -5
I think this failed because of how they botched the third single selection and changing from Glory and Gore after it was already established. If they hadn't done that or just released Tennis Court right away, either one would have hit top 10.
I'm sure her next lead single will do well on Alternative though, after that it depends on the tone of the album.
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Cody
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Post by Cody on Jul 28, 2014 16:50:40 GMT -5
I'd wager she returns with a lead single next spring.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Jul 28, 2014 17:07:24 GMT -5
I think this failed because of how they botched the third single selection and changing from Glory and Gore after it was already established. If they hadn't done that or just released Tennis Court right away, either one would have hit top 10. I'm sure her next lead single will do well on Alternative though, after that it depends on the tone of the album. Glory and Gore was losing spins at #16 when Tennis Court came in though. As for her lead single, I don't know. It could pull an Entertainment.
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Web
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Post by Web on Jul 28, 2014 17:41:27 GMT -5
the reason Glory and Gore started losing spins was because they announced Tennis Court for Pop and suddenly Alt stations didn't know which one to play, so splintered between the two. It killed any momentum that Tennis Court would have had. I'm almost sure Tennis Court would have been Top 10, maybe even Top 5 Alt if it had just been the third single and G&G had never been pushed.
Notice that Tennis Court entered the Top 50 of Pop right around the end of April. Throughout April Glory & Gore didn't have a fantastic bullet (somewhere in the 70-90 range most of the time) but it was making progress towards the Top 10. As soon as May started, it hit a brick wall and started to fall. In fact G&G lost its Alt bullet one day before Tennis Court hit Top 50 Mediabase on Pop.
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