Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 2:08:58 GMT -5
To me selling sex isn't about articles of clothing or lack of, its about actions. Whether Bette sold sex or not its just hypocritical. This is coming from someone who adores her. You do bring up good points and some that need further discussing. but this isn't the best place for it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 2:19:11 GMT -5
To me, I think Bette and other women like her are trying to address a real problem (young impressionable women being pressured into situations they aren't comfortable with or that don't represent them) but in a very flawed way. For example, not everyone who uses sexuality is doing so as a puppet or to cover up for lack of talent or to appease a higher power. In the same way, there are plenty of singers who were boxed into being homely or "girl next door" and wanted to be more sexually charged but were manipulated or pressured to remain the way their labels or team felt they should be branded.
I think there's two problems with people like Bette and Annie Lennox and even Emma Watson coming out and chastising female sexuality in music specifically in that they all parrot this conditioned sex-negative thinking where the only time a woman could conceivably utilize sexuality is because it's not her own choice or as a tool to distract/entice an audience. Additionally, even if we were to believe for a half second that Ariana is an industry puppet being forced into a "sex kitten" image...how is it positive or constructive in any way to publicly call out and shame her for a situation where she is the theoretical victim? Like why not call out the skeevy industry dudes that would be hypothetically forcing Ariana to do this? It feels like that criticism whether it's valid or not is deeply rooted in some sexist thinking where no matter what the situation, the woman gets the blame.
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Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on Dec 4, 2014 2:19:50 GMT -5
To me selling sex isn't about articles of clothing or lack of, its about actions. Whether Bette sold sex or not its just hypocritical. This is coming from someone who adores her. You do bring up good points and some that need further discussing. but this isn't the best place for it. Bette never used sex to be sexy or to appeal to men is my point. It was for camp and for humor for her mostly gay audience. There is a very big difference between that and putting on lingerie/skimpy clothes and basically coming off as a sexual object just there to be used by men. Which I think is the issue Bette has. I don't think Ariana does that AT ALL. I'm still dumbfounded that Bette brought her up. But I see where she's coming from in general and it's an interesting argument. But I agree, this board probably isn't the best venue for it.
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Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on Dec 4, 2014 2:23:11 GMT -5
Additionally, even if we were to believe for a half second that Ariana is an industry puppet being forced into a "sex kitten" image...how is it positive or constructive in any way to publicly call out and shame her for a situation where she is the theoretical victim? Like why not call out the skeevy industry dudes that would be hypothetically forcing Ariana to do this? It feels like that criticism whether it's valid or not is deeply rooted in some sexist thinking where no matter what the situation, the woman gets the blame. I agree with this as well. I think it could have been addressed far more tactfully. It really made Bette look stupid. Like seriously, Ariana Grande being too sexy? She looks like a mouseketeer for Christ's sake. And like you said, if she was the victim in this situation, attacking her is not the most effective route to take.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Dec 4, 2014 9:44:07 GMT -5
Bette wasn't wrong in what she was saying, she just picked the absolute worst example possible to demonstrate it. When you have Miley Cyrus swinging naked on a ball and deepthroating sledgehammers for YouTube views, Ariana Grande wearing a pushup bra kind of pales in comparison.
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Joe1240
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Post by Joe1240 on Dec 4, 2014 9:47:24 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 12:04:15 GMT -5
Bette wasn't wrong in what she was saying, she just picked the absolute worst example possible to demonstrate it. When you have Miley Cyrus swinging naked on a ball and deepthroating sledgehammers for YouTube views, Ariana Grande wearing a pushup bra kind of pales in comparison. Miley isn't a good example either. She very clearly wasn't being forced to use the "sex sells" method-- that was entirely her choice and her means of self expression. I think it's not a stretch to say that Ariana, who is a maturing young woman, wanted to break away from her child star image too. Nothing wrong with that either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 9:50:33 GMT -5
My Everything was nominated for Best Pop Vocal @ the Grammys.
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jdanton2
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Post by jdanton2 on Dec 6, 2014 20:38:55 GMT -5
Ariana also got a nomination for Best Pop Duo/Group Performance for Bang Bang along with Jessie J and Nicki Minaj.
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on Dec 7, 2014 12:53:17 GMT -5
I can't @ Problem getting nothing but that mess getting nominated.
Her album is very hit and miss, but good on her for the nomination.
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Dec 7, 2014 15:29:29 GMT -5
Ariana was seriously robbed by a ton of award shows this year
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 20:53:28 GMT -5
Ariana was seriously robbed by a ton of award shows this year Reminds me of Mariah. Why is she getting snubbed?
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Active Aggressive
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Post by Active Aggressive on Dec 8, 2014 13:23:27 GMT -5
She should consider herself lucky she never won BNA like Mariah did, since Mariah is one of the few that had the power to break that curse. Frankly, I think Ariana deserved more Grammys with her debut anyway.
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toomuchboy
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Post by toomuchboy on Dec 8, 2014 15:25:23 GMT -5
I don't really care about Grammy's. It's fun to see artists you like being rewarded, but it ultimately doesn't affect how I view their music.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2014 15:30:26 GMT -5
I like Ariana but I think the best is yet to come for her... When she releases GREAT material I'm sure the nominations will come.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Dec 8, 2014 15:42:42 GMT -5
Her next album (which I hope comes out next fall) is really make or break for her. It's going to determine whether she becomes a superstar or a mid-level.
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Post by Live Your Life on Dec 10, 2014 13:05:28 GMT -5
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Relaxing Cup
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Post by Relaxing Cup on Dec 10, 2014 16:33:47 GMT -5
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Post by Soldado de Juguete on Dec 10, 2014 18:22:51 GMT -5
Finally I'm starting to really like this girl! She was really good at the Victoria's Secret FS. Now I really want her to release "One Last Time" as a single
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MiniMusic
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Post by MiniMusic on Dec 10, 2014 19:01:00 GMT -5
I wonder what they will release as the next single. There should probably be a fourth one lined up for a January release right?
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SHOOTER
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Post by SHOOTER on Dec 10, 2014 19:35:38 GMT -5
I wonder what they will release as the next single. There should probably be a fourth one lined up for a January release right? I definitely think they'd be foolish not to release a fourth single since the album is now Grammy nominated.
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MiniMusic
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Post by MiniMusic on Dec 10, 2014 19:37:27 GMT -5
I wonder what they will release as the next single. There should probably be a fourth one lined up for a January release right? I definitely think they'd be foolish not to release a fourth single since the album is now Grammy nominated. I think it'd be a great idea to perform at the Grammys, probably do a little bit of one of the hits from the album or a medley or whatever and then do a performance of the new single. What do you all think it should be? ETA: The only singles that I see having success would be "One Last Time" or "Best Mistake".
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#brayden
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Post by #brayden on Dec 10, 2014 20:03:31 GMT -5
I don't see any future singles from this album performing as hot as the first three. "Be My Baby" would be my choice. I think it has the best chance at standing out... "One Last Time" is generic and forgettable.
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Fancy
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Post by Fancy on Dec 10, 2014 20:22:57 GMT -5
i feel like be my baby is more generic than one last time though. i just want byhrb as a single, i don't care if it flops. i'll just be happy about the treatment lol.
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MiniMusic
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Post by MiniMusic on Dec 10, 2014 20:27:27 GMT -5
I love Break Your Heart Right Back as well! It'd flop tho Not pop radio friendly at all, I don't think.
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Fancy
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Post by Fancy on Dec 10, 2014 20:29:55 GMT -5
nonetheless i feel like best mistake will be the next and final single of the era.
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MiniMusic
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Post by MiniMusic on Dec 10, 2014 20:33:44 GMT -5
You're probably right. It'd be a good choice plus all the hype with them dating so.
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The Northern Star⭐
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Post by The Northern Star⭐ on Dec 11, 2014 0:22:16 GMT -5
Love Me Harder is still going strong though, I hope they don't kill it in the name of a new single.
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MiniMusic
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Post by MiniMusic on Dec 11, 2014 1:30:17 GMT -5
Love Me Harder is still going strong though, I hope they don't kill it in the name of a new single. They won't! I was just talking about for the new year with the Grammys coming around it'd probably be smart to release a 4th one around that time!
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toomuchboy
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Post by toomuchboy on Dec 11, 2014 12:36:41 GMT -5
I personally can see some potential in all of OLT, BYHRB, BMB, and JaLBoYH, but it just depends on what they want to go with. I can only see one more single coming, two if maybe they consider "Bang Bang" a separate case, and BYHRB and BMB don't seem like appropriate last singles?
I only suggested JaLBoYH because they might want to take a shot at marketing her towards the older crowd (the crowd that still buys physical albums) since all her other singles have been aimed at younger listeners. It reminds me of those slow ballads that have been popular lately, like "Stay," "When I Was Your Man," "All of Me," "Say Something," and "Stay with Me." And it's probably her most beautiful vocal on the album, too, imo.
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