Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Sept 22, 2014 16:07:45 GMT -5
First of all, who's Cavo?
Second of all, this sounds like an AFI song, Davey Havok-esque vocals and all and really Alt-friendly - since it's flopping on Active, why can't it use Alternative as a fall-back format? Oh wait, it doesn't work that way...
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Cody
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Post by Cody on Sept 22, 2014 16:11:02 GMT -5
First of all, who's Cavo? Second of all, this sounds like an AFI song, Davey Havok-esque vocals and all and really Alt-friendly - since it's flopping on Active, why can't it use Alternative as a fall-back format? Oh wait, it doesn't work that way... It has never worked that way, lol. However I agree with the general opinion here that this should be played on alternative, however I don't think it even went for adds. And Cavo had a BB Mainstream Rock #1 in 2009 with "Champagne". Everything since has flopped.
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Post by Shadows in the Dark on Sept 22, 2014 16:16:44 GMT -5
First of all, who's Cavo? Second of all, this sounds like an AFI song, Davey Havok-esque vocals and all and really Alt-friendly - since it's flopping on Active, why can't it use Alternative as a fall-back format? Oh wait, it doesn't work that way... It has never worked that way, lol. However I agree with the general opinion here that this should be played on alternative, however I don't think it even went for adds. And Cavo had a BB Mainstream Rock #1 in 2009 with "Champagne". Everything since has flopped. I wouldn't say everything. "Crash" went top 10, if you recall. I also wish that Alternative would take Active bands who put out material that's too "soft" for Active, just as how Active will take certain Alternative bands. It should work both ways IMO, but maybe Alternative thinks they're better than Active? Lol.
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Cody
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Post by Cody on Sept 22, 2014 16:24:43 GMT -5
It has never worked that way, lol. However I agree with the general opinion here that this should be played on alternative, however I don't think it even went for adds. And Cavo had a BB Mainstream Rock #1 in 2009 with "Champagne". Everything since has flopped. I wouldn't say everything. "Crash" went top 10, if you recall. I also wish that Alternative would take Active bands who put out material that's too "soft" for Active, just as how Active will take certain Alternative bands. It should work both ways IMO, but maybe Alternative thinks they're better than Active? Lol. See, this gets said here alot, and frankly I don't understand it. People assume active is "giving alternative bands a chance". I think that's preposterous, and that requires a beyond-reasonable degree of assuming. The far more likely reason is that active play alternative bands because they have nothing else to play/have no choice. There is a significantly larger pool of new alternative music to choose from than there is active music. There are more songs that go for alternative adds than active adds.
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Cody
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Post by Cody on Sept 22, 2014 16:27:01 GMT -5
Active stations are also more likely to exist in random smaller markets, where there is nothing else that can play alternative music, therefore the alternative listening crowds are forced to listen to active. In markets where only alternative stations exist, there are generally classic rock stations for the active crowd to settle for, and those classic stations often play the newer big active hits.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Sept 22, 2014 16:30:09 GMT -5
Alright. "Champagne" is awful.
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Cody
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Post by Cody on Sept 22, 2014 16:34:48 GMT -5
Alright. "Champagne" is awful. lol, it's very forgettable. "Let It Go" and "Thick As Thieves" are good, that's about it though
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Post by Shadows in the Dark on Sept 22, 2014 16:35:00 GMT -5
I wouldn't say everything. "Crash" went top 10, if you recall. I also wish that Alternative would take Active bands who put out material that's too "soft" for Active, just as how Active will take certain Alternative bands. It should work both ways IMO, but maybe Alternative thinks they're better than Active? Lol. See, this gets said here alot, and frankly I don't understand it. People assume active is "giving alternative bands a chance". I think that's preposterous, and that requires a beyond-reasonable degree of assuming. The far more likely reason is that active play alternative bands because they have nothing else to play/have no choice. There is a significantly larger pool of new alternative music to choose from than there is active music. There are more songs that go for alternative adds than active adds. Fair point. I'll be honest, I actually didn't know there was a smaller pool of songs that Active could choose from. I always assumed that both formats could pick and choose the same amount, and that Alternative felt it was too good for Active songs, lol. (The latter point could very well have some truth to it though, heh.)
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Sept 22, 2014 20:03:39 GMT -5
See, this gets said here alot, and frankly I don't understand it. People assume active is "giving alternative bands a chance". I think that's preposterous, and that requires a beyond-reasonable degree of assuming. The far more likely reason is that active play alternative bands because they have nothing else to play/have no choice. There is a significantly larger pool of new alternative music to choose from than there is active music. There are more songs that go for alternative adds than active adds. Fair point. I'll be honest, I actually didn't know there was a smaller pool of songs that Active could choose from. I always assumed that both formats could pick and choose the same amount, and that Alternative felt it was too good for Active songs, lol. (The latter point could very well have some truth to it though, heh.) I honestly don't think this is the case. What is the case is that the music currently on Alternative is 10 times more popular than the music on active. Therefore, there is way more incentive for an active rock station to play one of those alt songs that doesn't really fit the current state of active than vice versa. Stations want ratings and listeners because stations want advertisers and advertisers will pay more to reach more customers. If 10-20 times the people care about and know who Kongos is over Young Guns, then there's way more of a reason for an active rock station to play a Kongos song than for an Alternative station to play a Young Guns song. It's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with the restrictions or selection to choose from that you guys are talking about. It's that the most popular rock songs and new rock bands in the world right now are "rock" as presently defined by the Alternative format. The rock we've known before played by bands like Young Guns is a dinosaur genre of a past generation.
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Mega248
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Post by Mega248 on Sept 22, 2014 20:27:55 GMT -5
I can hear the Blaqk Audio comparisons in this song, as well as hints of The Killers. I don't like this quite as much as most Blaqk Audio songs, but Blaqk Audio's CexCells album was one of my favorite albums of 2007, so surpassing it would be difficult.
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Pipa
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Post by Pipa on Sept 22, 2014 20:28:32 GMT -5
Cavo has the highest single-to-flop ratio off of one album I can think of. After "Champagne" and "Crash" did their thing, they released "Let It Go", "My Little Secret", "Cry Wolf"...heck, I think there was even another one. And they did nothing.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Sept 22, 2014 20:28:55 GMT -5
I can hear the Blaqk Audio comparisons in this song, as well as hints of The Killers. I don't like this quite as much as most Blaqk Audio songs, but Blaqk Audio's CexCells album was one of my favorite albums of 2007, so surpassing it would be difficult. Am I the only one who hears AFI? EDIT: The Blaqk Audio dude sounds a lot like Davey Havok too. So I get that.
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Pipa
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Post by Pipa on Sept 22, 2014 20:30:26 GMT -5
I can hear the Blaqk Audio comparisons in this song, as well as hints of The Killers. I don't like this quite as much as most Blaqk Audio songs, but Blaqk Audio's CexCells album was one of my favorite albums of 2007, so surpassing it would be difficult. Am I the only one who hears AFI? EDIT: The Blaqk Audio dude sounds a lot like Davey Havok too. So I get that. Nope, I said it on page 1. Also, Blaqk Audio is an AFI side project.
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Mega248
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Post by Mega248 on Sept 22, 2014 20:36:48 GMT -5
I'd describe it as halfway between a typical Blaqk Audio and AFI song now that I think about it. Which can be interpreted in multiple ways, because even though Davey's work with Blaqk Audio is more electronic in general compared to his stuff with AFI, the styles of the two bands aren't mutually exclusive.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Sept 28, 2014 20:39:47 GMT -5
Top 40 on Active:
50 40 YOUNG GUNS I Want Out 206 118 88 0.211
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Superundercover
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Post by Superundercover on Oct 20, 2014 12:26:02 GMT -5
Top 30 on Active:
34 30 YOUNG GUNS I Want Out 349 288 61 0.505
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Oct 27, 2014 3:34:28 GMT -5
Just caught the video. Boy, The rocker look has certainly changed. They look like Walk The Moon. Anyway, love the song, but this could also crossover to alt on any given day. I think they are gradually changing thier sound to a more Killers vibe.
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Cody
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Post by Cody on Nov 24, 2014 11:31:29 GMT -5
Top 20 - Active
21 20 YOUNG GUNS I Want Out 525 493 32 0.734
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Post by Shadows in the Dark on Dec 2, 2014 0:37:13 GMT -5
Jeez, the more I listen to this, the more I can't help but think that this should be charting on Alternative. It sounds very new wave-y.
I mean, if "Figure It Out" and "Room to Breathe" can chart there (Not complaining, of course), than this should too. It's more Alternative-friendlier than both songs IMO. Really hoping it goes for adds there soon.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Dec 2, 2014 0:50:12 GMT -5
Active is taking sounds that are alternative in nature. Don't know why though,
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Dec 2, 2014 3:12:59 GMT -5
Jeez, the more I listen to this, the more I can't help but think that this should be charting on Alternative. It sounds very new wave-y. I mean, if "Figure It Out" and "Room to Breathe" can chart there (Not complaining, of course), than this should too. It's more Alternative-friendlier than both songs IMO. Really hoping it goes for adds there soon. When they were marketed almost exclusively to Active Rock last album, and that's the band's general sound, they're probably already pigeonholed as not an alt band. I agree with you guys that it does sound like it could fit in there relative to a lot of active rock, but I think Young Guns as a band are tough to market to today's alt crowd for many of whom post-grunge is a dinosaur genre.
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Cody
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Post by Cody on Dec 2, 2014 11:07:18 GMT -5
Yeah, this really should go for alternative adds, however it needs to keep rising on active. Not many songs cross over from one to the other when they only get as high as like #20 on their core one. (that goes for both active to alt AND alt to active)
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Dec 3, 2014 0:20:49 GMT -5
Yeah, this really should go for alternative adds, however it needs to keep rising on active. Not many songs cross over from one to the other when they only get as high as like #20 on their core one. (that goes for both active to alt AND alt to active) But these days active to alt is much more rare. Considering "Ballast" as a #1 on active didn't even hit the top 50 on alt, I think active success doesn't really portend much in the way of alternative interest.
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Web
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Post by Web on Dec 3, 2014 8:55:22 GMT -5
^but this song sounds more like an Alternative song rather than an Active track. Ballast was more in the Active camp.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Dec 3, 2014 12:29:18 GMT -5
^but this song sounds more like an Alternative song rather than an Active track. Ballast was more in the Active camp. That's counter-balanced by the fact that Young Guns is already more firmly entrenched as an active rock band and their overall sound is less currently hip than Nothing More's as Young Guns is the current anti-alternative: post-grunge. Nothing More's pop-djent-core style is current enough that alternative would be more likely to care about them than Young Guns in spite of "I Want Out" being a foray out of that post-grunge sound into something more alt-friendly. I fear "Bones" has them pigeonholed as a band alternative has no interest in.
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Cody
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Post by Cody on Dec 3, 2014 12:43:37 GMT -5
^but this song sounds more like an Alternative song rather than an Active track. Ballast was more in the Active camp. That's counter-balanced by the fact that Young Guns is already more firmly entrenched as an active rock band and their overall sound is less currently hip than Nothing More's as Young Guns is the current anti-alternative: post-grunge. Nothing More's pop-djent-core style is current enough that alternative would be more likely to care about them than Young Guns in spite of "I Want Out" being a foray out of that post-grunge sound into something more alt-friendly. I fear "Bones" has them pigeonholed as a band alternative has no interest in. I actually disagree with this. I've been critical of "Ballast" as well as of the opinion that it shoulda charted on alternative, and I personally don't find anything about that song to be in any way "alternative", while both this song AND "Bones" are both good old alternative rock tracks. I don't think "Bones" was ever sent for alternative adds, and if it was then it was probably at the same time as it went for active adds as oppose to later on when it took its sweet time become a big active hit. I think this has a far better shot at charting on alternative than "Ballast" ever did, and if this goes top 10 then I can certainly see a top 40 appearance on alternative in the cards for "I Want Out".
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timmierz
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Post by timmierz on Dec 3, 2014 12:55:17 GMT -5
I don't think that Young Guns is a big enough name for alternative listeners to hear a song of theirs and think, "No, this band doesn't fit here, despite the merits of this individual song." We're not talking a massively popular act here to radio listeners - the first time they hit any US chart was just last year, wasn't it?
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Dec 3, 2014 21:27:08 GMT -5
I don't think that Young Guns is a big enough name for alternative listeners to hear a song of theirs and think, "No, this band doesn't fit here, despite the merits of this individual song." We're not talking a massively popular act here to radio listeners - the first time they hit any US chart was just last year, wasn't it? "Bones" blew up late 2012, I think, but it was on the chart summer 2012, I think. It's been well over two years since it was released in the U.S.
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jvandyck87
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Post by jvandyck87 on Dec 3, 2014 21:29:59 GMT -5
That's counter-balanced by the fact that Young Guns is already more firmly entrenched as an active rock band and their overall sound is less currently hip than Nothing More's as Young Guns is the current anti-alternative: post-grunge. Nothing More's pop-djent-core style is current enough that alternative would be more likely to care about them than Young Guns in spite of "I Want Out" being a foray out of that post-grunge sound into something more alt-friendly. I fear "Bones" has them pigeonholed as a band alternative has no interest in. I actually disagree with this. I've been critical of "Ballast" as well as of the opinion that it shoulda charted on alternative, and I personally don't find anything about that song to be in any way "alternative", while both this song AND "Bones" are both good old alternative rock tracks. I don't think "Bones" was ever sent for alternative adds, and if it was then it was probably at the same time as it went for active adds as oppose to later on when it took its sweet time become a big active hit. I think this has a far better shot at charting on alternative than "Ballast" ever did, and if this goes top 10 then I can certainly see a top 40 appearance on alternative in the cards for "I Want Out". "Good old alternative track" is exactly what Alternative hates right now. The fact that Nothing More sounds more of the new generation of artists like Bring Me The Horizon, A Day To Remember, Of Mice & Men, Periphery, etc. is what would give it a better shot at Alternative. Young Guns is the epitome of what the Pitchfork crowd sticks up their noses at. Nothing More is heavier, but also far more relevant/current. Young Guns sound like they would have been huge 10 years ago. "I Want Out" makes them sound older, but in a way that's more trendy right now, I agree. I think if they wanted to push to alternative, they honestly should have gone there with this song out of the gate. Active rock success just stigmatizes them further as a post-grunge dinosaur band that alternative has no interest in.
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Dec 3, 2014 21:32:00 GMT -5
Active vs. Alternative II: This Time It's Personal
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