Zazie
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Post by Zazie on Oct 6, 2014 13:43:38 GMT -5
On the topic of preachiness, is there a line in the song that reads "Opened my eyes and told me the truth"? It's that kind of line that reinforces the impression of preachiness that surrounds this song. Maybe I misheard it. Having a corner on the truth is appealing to a lot of people, and I wouldn't criticize anybody for approaching the world that way. But if you want to know why somebody would find the song preachy -- and that's how I got into this exchange, trying to answer a question -- it's the notion that there's one truth about these important real-life issues. Can I offer an explanation/copout on this point? The line that you quoted (which you heard correctly) comes from a third-person point of view...the narrator is talking to a guy who shares the transformative experience of his baptism -- he is the one who tells her that someone "opened my eyes and told me the truth." But I think it's important that the narrator says she "heard what he said and went on my way, didn't think about it for a couple of days" -- she seems to be saying that he expressed his truth, but it didn't necessarily register with her immediately. The narrator's own moment of revelation, which I agree is also framed in Christian terms, comes differently...she may come to accept the same "truth," but I think that the narrator comes by it differently and she stops short of promoting it as such. Like I said, a copout explanation, and not one intended to suggest that "Something in the Water" isn't preachy by a reasonable definition. I will say that as someone for whom faith is an intensely personal thing, I'm not wired to understand the notion of "testimony." But at the same time, I'm pre-disposed to like Carrie and I've generally found a way to be comfortable with her presentations of her faith. I see "Something in the Water" as her way of giving glory to God in a time when she has so much going for her professionally and personally. Her gratitude bubbles forth in her voice and the music here, and despite my preference for a stronger narrative element (as sbp17 noted) and my wish that she had made different interpretive choices at a couple of moments (as several in this thread have already mentioned), I find "Something in the Water" to be genuinely joyous and likable. On the subject of ending the song with the interpolation of "Amazing Grace," I'm generally skeptical of sampling or name- or song-dropping tactics because they too often lazily access credibility not earned by the song. But I think the use of "Amazing Grace" works here -- it's the end of the song, it's fitting given the arc of the song that one end up in church, and it makes sense to be singing one of the most universal of traditional hymns, one that encapsulates the wonder and gratitude that "Something in the Water" seeks to convey. The interpolation works musically for me, as well. Thanks for the depth of thought you put into your comment, 43Donk. You made me work harder and think, though time will tell if I'm thinking well. I certainly missed the point you made about what character is saying what. Still... I cannot find any compelling reason to believe that the song's narrator rejects the preachier side of the character you refer to. She takes a couple of days to come around to his point of view because (just guessing here) that is more realistic as a description of how people go places, and because she needed the opportunity to revisit the depth of her despair post-conversation, and also because it makes a better song by adding a little to the story line. But when she's seeing "the light" near the song's end, she isn't troubled by implications of preachiness. And that comes about, o excellent song analyst, because she's preaching. Surely you don't think the Carrie character would disavow the other character's stance? He isn't in the song as an object lesson for would-be preachers to avoid, quite the contrary; so your argument loses a lot of its steam. I don't see how preachy songs are going to avoid being preachy, just as the fabled scorpion in the ancient folktale cannot avoid his own nature when he sends the turtle doing him a favor to his reward. (No further comparison intended.) They will be preachy, that is, unless the songwriter places a high value on avoiding preachiness. And that's not what we have here, despite your accurate attribution of the line I questioned. I think the "went on my way" part of the song adds to its strength, but I don't think it's a rejection of preachiness, not in the slightest. It serves a different narrative purpose, despite the imperfection of my initial reading of the lyrics. It's not that I see no room for preachiness on the radio; I just don't generally enjoy it myself. Any late-comers to this debate should know that I am not objecting to the song, nor to the views of any of its adherents. Just trying to articulate a different point of view: it's too preachy to appeal to the likes of me.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Oct 6, 2014 15:32:57 GMT -5
Highest debut in Carrie Underwood's career-#17!
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Oct 6, 2014 16:19:45 GMT -5
Did she have a Clear Channel/iHeartMedia/whatever "one-every-hour" deal with this? If not, then that debut is insane. Pretty incredible that an artist (and a female artist, at that) in this format achieved a #17 debut on Country Airplay after being in the business for about a full decade now. Not trying to sound like a super-duper stan here, but this really does justify how important Carrie Underwood is to Country music today.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Oct 6, 2014 16:31:40 GMT -5
I can't speak for others, but I can give the reason I find the song preachy. It's really simple: she takes a universal human event -- the slamming doors down every hallway -- and then she gives an explicitly Christian experience as the solution to the universal problem. I don't see anything wrong with her doing that. It's her song. It's her life. It's her experience. This is not an attack on the song. But if you do it this way, then you are being preachy, more or less by definition. And presumably to have the effect you want to have, it is worthwhile to lose some part of your audience that doesn't like preachy. I am one who never likes preachy, but the cost of alienating a few listeners is modest and the gain is obvious. This is why preaching to the choir is generally very effective. Two minutes reading this thread is enough to show us how that works. The song focuses on a personal transformation; it doesn't say other people should do the same. Like others have said, I think "preachy" usually comes in when someone is telling other people what to do. I think most people see "preaching" as someone forcing their opinion on you, not as someone recounting a personal narrative. If I talk to a friend who tells me she is upset because her boyfriend dumped her so she ate a tub of ice cream to feel better, I don't think that friend is preaching to me that ice cream is a cure. She is simply telling me what she did to deal with her emotions. I think people only take exception because it's a religious message. I am not Christian, but I can still relate to the general feeling. It's no different than relating to a song about a break-up even if you aren't going through a break-up. But when it involves religion, people get more sensitive and read into things they wouldn't otherwise. That's my opinion, anyway.
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carriekins
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Post by carriekins on Oct 6, 2014 17:17:48 GMT -5
Did she have a Clear Channel/iHeartMedia/whatever "one-every-hour" deal with this? If not, then that debut is insane. Pretty incredible that an artist (and a female artist, at that) in this format achieved a #17 debut on Country Airplay after being in the business for about a full decade now. Not trying to sound like a super-duper stan here, but this really does justify how important Carrie Underwood is to Country music today. She did. Many CBS stations jumped on it, too, not that unlike the treatment Garth received.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 17:31:23 GMT -5
Did she have a Clear Channel/iHeartMedia/whatever "one-every-hour" deal with this? That first day's update sort of gave away the answer... Her gains for the week were as follows: 09/30: +1095 spins, +12.119 million audience 10/01: +219 spins, +1.356 million 10/02: +215 spins, +1.514 million 10/03: +207 spins, +1.504 million 10/04: +184 spins, +1.324 million 10/05: +218 spins, +1.603 million 10/06: +211 spins, +1.869 million Thus, tomorrow she will suffer the "8th day effect" and we will see SITW take a big hit in overall spins/audience, as that huge first day of airplay (+1095 spins, +12.1 million audience) will no longer be included in the rolling 7-day totals. SITW will likely resume climbing again with the Wednesday morning update.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 17:49:04 GMT -5
What would be the predicted, unfortunate, and inevitable dropped back position for next week?
Also what's the prediction for the Hot 100?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 17:53:54 GMT -5
What would be the predicted, unfortunate, and inevitable dropped back position for next week? She'll have a drop in tomorrow's update, but after that, she has 6 days to try to gain it all back. Jason Aldean's "Burnin' It Down" and Florida Georgia Line's "Dirt" both kept their bullets in their 2nd week on the charts so I think Carrie could do it, too. Garth had a big drop because he couldn't sustain the first-week hype. Blake Shelton's "Neon Light" also lost its bullet in chart week #2, but barely--that one only lost 700k in its 2nd week. 1) Blake's debuted at #19 on the 09/06 Billboard chart (after 7 days of airplay) with 20.3 million in audience. In its 2nd week, "Neon Light" held at #19 with a loss of 700k, for a new total of 19.6 mil. 2) Jason's "Burnin' It Down" debuted at #19 on the 08/09 chart (after 6 days of airplay) with 18.8 million in audience. In his 2nd week, Jason held at #19 with a small loss of only 227k, for a new total of 18.6 mil. 3) FGL's "Dirt" debuted at #16 on on the 07/26 chart (after 6 days of airplay) with about 19 million in audience. In its 2nd week, FGL held at #16 but managed a gain of 1.4 mil, up to a new total of 20.3 mil. 4) Garth's "People Loving People" was sent out on a Wednesday and it wound up debuting at #19 (after only 5 days of airplay) with 20.5 million, but then it fell 19-23 in week 2 with a loss of 7.8 mil, and a new audience total of 12.7 mil. Obviously those aren't the only big "Clear Channel" debuts, but they are the more recent ones ("American Kids" was, too, but it got sent out on a Friday so the normal trajectory didn't apply to that one). So I think Carrie can perform on par with how the Jason/Blake/FGL songs did in their 2nd weeks and avoid a huge 'drop' week like we saw with Garth (and Garth still hasn't full recovered after 5 weeks on the chart now).
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carrieidol1
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Post by carrieidol1 on Oct 6, 2014 20:41:08 GMT -5
I also cannot remember a Carrie song, in her 10 year career, staying in the Top 5 on iTunes (all genre) for a week, most of that time spent in the top 3, and still in the top 6 as of today (day 8).. People are buying this song at a faster rate than a Carrie Underwood song has ever been purchased before. I would caution that the first part does not necessarily mean the latter. The advent of streaming has resulted in a decline in download sales, so it takes less to do well at iTunes these days. There was a window of time earlier this century in which country album sales seemed to hold up stronger than sales in other mainstream genres because country fans were slower adopters of digital downloading than fans in other mainstream genres. I think it's likely that at least some subset of country music fans are slower adopters of streaming than fans in other mainstream genres have been as well, though country download sales have been crashing this year, as well. (Tangentially related, I think HDD noted the strength of digital album sales for Barbra Streisand's current release as a possible sign that older music fans are holding up strongly as digital buyers of music, so I don't think it's just some subsets of country music fans who continue to buy.) As for radio's reception to this song, maybe it's just me, but I never thought it would be anything but really strong in the first week. First-week fortunes at radio are largely based on track record, and Carrie's is stellar. Hourly first-day play by both Clear Channel and Cumulus ensured over 10 million in Billboard audience in the first day alone. The Monday release was always going to facilitate a career-high debut for Carrie, at least on the Billboard Country Airplay chart. But I think it's worth noting that average daily audience for "Something in the Water" after the first day was actually lower than average daily audience gains for male A-listers like Aldean and Shelton this year. Now, that could be a function of Arista Nashville wanting to leave some space for second week stabilization (to prevent a "People Like Us"-level second week hit), or Arista Nashville wanting to make sure that "Something in the Water" didn't swallow up airplay it still wants for "Somethin' Bad." My point is that the first week airplay was never going to tell us much. It's the airplay from SITW's third week forward that will tell us about whether country radio really is willing to embrace something so thematically and sonically different from what has ruled the format for the past two years. I can agree that first week download sales for "Something in the Water," which look likely to clear 100K, and the overall reception for the song (i.e., just what I've picked up from perusing general discussion around the intertubes) look encouraging. I just don't think superlatives are warranted to describe either. The former may not mean that latter in all cases, but in this case I'd argue it does. She debuted with 124k in sales, her best single week ever. So my point in that the overall reception for this song is perhaps Carrie's greatest ever holds true in both airplay: #17 debut (personal record), and in digital sales. While it may take less to well on iTunes, Carrie still did more in the first week with SITW than she ever has before... We'll see if this song can maintain its massive reception (I'm 99% sure it will), but it's definitely off to an amazing start!
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Oct 6, 2014 21:55:11 GMT -5
I used the word 'modest' to describe the 57 first-week adds for this stellar song last week over on the Carriefans board last week which was not a putdown as I pointed out a few minutes ago over there; I had expected at least 80-90 or even more.
Nevertheless the 87 second week adds today are an all-time record.
Had the remaining five holdouts which didn't add this song today (why not?) done so, it would have become only the SECOND song to clear 100% of the panel in the 29-year history of Mediabase in just TWO weeks.
The first and so far the only song ever to do so wound up finishing #1 for the year at R&R/Mediabase in 2006; that would be 'What Hurts The Most' by Rascal Flatts.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Oct 8, 2014 10:13:10 GMT -5
Debuts at #43 on the Canadian country chart.
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ant
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Post by ant on Oct 8, 2014 18:55:16 GMT -5
This has burned out on me pretty quickly. Probably faster than any of her other singles. :(
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Oct 8, 2014 19:58:43 GMT -5
This has burned out on me pretty quickly. Probably faster than any of her other singles. :( I should say so. It's been charting for just over a week.
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jptexas
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Post by jptexas on Oct 8, 2014 22:46:58 GMT -5
This has burned out on me pretty quickly. Probably faster than any of her other singles. :( I should say so. It's been charting for just over a week. There's alot of truth in Sarcasm. Maybe you should try hearing some of the bro-country songs currently being played on country radio and see how quickly they burn out also. We could see which ones burn out quickly and which ones take theyre time till all u have is ashes.
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Oct 8, 2014 22:48:13 GMT -5
I should say so. It's been charting for just over a week. There's alot of truth in Sarcasm. Maybe you should try hearing some of the bro-country songs currently being played on country radio and see how quickly they burn out also. I'm a little confused what you mean by this?
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desertfloods
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Post by desertfloods on Oct 9, 2014 1:55:36 GMT -5
This has burned out on me pretty quickly. Probably faster than any of her other singles. :( Completely opposite for me. I have actually grown to love this song even more now. Can't wait for the video! (which has apparently already been shot last week!)
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trebor
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Post by trebor on Oct 9, 2014 8:44:39 GMT -5
Bumper 1st week for "Something In The Water":
24 Hot 100 4 Digital Songs 20 Artist 100 2 Hot Country Songs 17 Country Airplay 1 Country Digital Songs 4 Country Streaming Songs 1 Hot Christian Songs 1 Christian Digital Songs 1 Christian Streaming Songs 29 Billboard Canadian Hot 100
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bornfearless2000
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Post by bornfearless2000 on Oct 9, 2014 9:34:18 GMT -5
Bumper 1st week for "Something In The Water": 24 Hot 100 4 Digital Songs 20 Artist 100 2 Hot Country Songs 17 Country Airplay 1 Country Digital Songs 4 Country Streaming Songs 1 Hot Christian Songs 1 Christian Digital Songs 1 Christian Streaming Songs 29 Billboard Canadian Hot 100 Another #1 song in her bag
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Oct 9, 2014 10:30:24 GMT -5
I'm surprised Something In The Water did not get to #1 this week on the mongrel chart. It is the top selling single out there. I am guessing Jason Aldean's Burnin' It Down has more airplay and is being streamed more. The mid week update has not arrived at my inbox yet. I am sure to amend this post when I get the numbers.
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dajross6
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Post by dajross6 on Oct 9, 2014 11:09:14 GMT -5
Sometimes I don't understand how Billboard determines what genre songs belong to. I think we can all agree that the song is Christian with Country elements in it (if this was sung by someone other than Carrie Underwood I'm not entirely sure it would be played on Country honestly), but how can Billboard declare it a #1 Christian song without it being sent to Christian radio? I don't follow that chart much more than a glance in the weekly magazine, but I'm sure there are artists who could be #1 that are dethroned due to an arbitrary decision by someone at the magazine. I guess I can see it both ways, but I'm a believer that a song should be Top 50 airplay before it should be allowed to chart on a particular genre sub-chart.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Oct 9, 2014 11:43:58 GMT -5
I'm surprised Something In The Water did not get to #1 this week on the mongrel chart. It is the top selling single out there. I am guessing Jason Aldean's Burnin' It Down has more airplay and is being streamed more. The mid week update has not arrived at my inbox yet. I am sure to amend this post when I get the numbers. Here we go. Jason Aldean is #1 on the mongrel chart because he ranks #3 in airplay, #4 in sales, and #1 in streaming. Carrie Underwood is #2 because she is #23 in airplay, #1 in sales, and #4 in streaming.
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zaclord 🌈
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Post by zaclord 🌈 on Oct 9, 2014 11:57:22 GMT -5
Sometimes I don't understand how Billboard determines what genre songs belong to. I think we can all agree that the song is Christian with Country elements in it (if this was sung by someone other than Carrie Underwood I'm not entirely sure it would be played on Country honestly), but how can Billboard declare it a #1 Christian song without it being sent to Christian radio? I don't follow that chart much more than a glance in the weekly magazine, but I'm sure there are artists who could be #1 that are dethroned due to an arbitrary decision by someone at the magazine. I guess I can see it both ways, but I'm a believer that a song should be Top 50 airplay before it should be allowed to chart on a particular genre sub-chart. I do agree that its strange that SITW is being considered for the Hot Christian Songs chart. Its definitely worthy of charting on Christian radio, but as far as we know, it hasn't been sent there yet, so I find it a little premature to include SITW on the Christian songs chart solely based on single sales. Now I'm not sure how any charts work other than Country Airplay and Hot Country Songs (kind of), but I'm assuming Carrie's airplay for the song on country radio was included in her tallies for the Hot Christian Songs chart, as well as her sales and streaming. This is as equally unfair, in my opinion, as the "Cruise" remix with Nelly occupying the Hot Country Songs chart's #1 slot for so long, if not more unfair. Now if Carrie plans on releasing SITW to Christian radio, its a little bit of a different story. But prematurely including SITW on the Hot Country Songs chart and taking that spot away from another Christian artist who is actually getting airplay on Christian radio is a bit unfair. It would be like including Sam Hunt's "Leave the Night On" on the Hot Pop Songs chart (if that exists) just because his song meets the qualifications to be considered a pop song, but hasn't been sent to Pop radio. I feel like labels probably dictate what genre(s) each song is labeled as on Billboard charts (like in the case of "I Knew You Were Trouble" being labeled as pop instead of country even though "We Are Never..." was labeled as Country). So that may indicate that SITW will in fact be sent to Christian radio (it would be dumb not to, but that hasn't stopped her team from not sending her music to pop before). Regardless, these Billboard charts are going to get muddier and muddier with the line between genres continues to blur. EDIT: Looks like it in fact is being sent to Country radio as leilamaurizia pointed out while I was typing this response.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Oct 9, 2014 12:06:12 GMT -5
^ Well, "SITW" has a Christian theme, so I think Billboard was basing it on that. They decide what they want, for one. I think they do ask labels about their plans, so they may have asked Carrie's label if they were planning on sending it to Christian radio in the future.
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trebor
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Post by trebor on Oct 9, 2014 12:10:04 GMT -5
I'm surprised Something In The Water did not get to #1 this week on the mongrel chart. It is the top selling single out there. I am guessing Jason Aldean's Burnin' It Down has more airplay and is being streamed more. The mid week update has not arrived at my inbox yet. I am sure to amend this post when I get the numbers. Here we go. Jason Aldean is #1 on the mongrel chart because he ranks #3 in airplay, #4 in sales, and #1 in streaming. Carrie Underwood is #2 because she is #23 in airplay, #1 in sales, and #4 in streaming. Just a note: #23 = Spins / #17 = Audience Impressions ;) I agree that it was a close race for the Mongrel chart's pole. Jason must have had extra cross-over points from non-country stations. :)
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on Oct 9, 2014 12:22:06 GMT -5
I cannot find any compelling reason to believe that the song's narrator rejects the preachier side of the character you refer to. She takes a couple of days to come around to his point of view because (just guessing here) that is more realistic as a description of how people go places, and because she needed the opportunity to revisit the depth of her despair post-conversation, and also because it makes a better song by adding a little to the story line. But when she's seeing "the light" near the song's end, she isn't troubled by implications of preachiness. And that comes about, o excellent song analyst, because she's preaching. Surely you don't think the Carrie character would disavow the other character's stance? He isn't in the song as an object lesson for would-be preachers to avoid, quite the contrary; so your argument loses a lot of its steam. I agree, the narrator ultimately accepts what the man in the first verse presented as the "truth" as her own, having seen the "light." She certainly doesn't disavow the other character's stance. But I still think that this song makes the point that it is one thing to hear a message, that is, to be preached at, and another to accept that message on one's own, and that differentiation in the process of acceptance feels significant to me. To me, that differentiation speaks to a more modest intent in Carrie's testimony. Now, let me also concede that the song tells a story in which the seeds of the message were planted by someone who had been born again through his acceptance of Christ, even if it took the narrator's own experience for that message to bloom and take hold. So on the intent issue, I also have to concede that there is probably a hope that by sharing this message, it can be the seed of belief for some others (well, at least among those already receptive to it). I would caution that the first part does not necessarily mean the latter. The advent of streaming has resulted in a decline in download sales, so it takes less to do well at iTunes these days. There was a window of time earlier this century in which country album sales seemed to hold up stronger than sales in other mainstream genres because country fans were slower adopters of digital downloading than fans in other mainstream genres. I think it's likely that at least some subset of country music fans are slower adopters of streaming than fans in other mainstream genres have been as well, though country download sales have been crashing this year, as well. The former may not mean that latter in all cases, but in this case I'd argue it does. She debuted with 124k in sales, her best single week ever. So my point in that the overall reception for this song is perhaps Carrie's greatest ever holds true in both airplay: #17 debut (personal record), and in digital sales. While it may take less to well on iTunes, Carrie still did more in the first week with SITW than she ever has before... We'll see if this song can maintain its massive reception (I'm 99% sure it will), but it's definitely off to an amazing start! Keep in mind that "Good Girl"'s first week of sales only included three days of sales, and it sold 108K in those three days. Your original point was that "Something in the Water" was selling "at a faster rate than a Carrie Underwood song has ever been purchased before," but in fact "Good Girl" sold faster out of the gate than "Something in the Water" did (in other words, it's safe to say that after selling 108K in its first three days, "Good Girl" would have sold more than 125K if its first full week of sales had included seven days of sales as was the case for "Something in the Water"). But I really want to stop emphasizing this point because really, 125K in first week sales for a Carrie single that goes against the thematic and sonic trends on country radio in a time when download sales are on their way down is nothing but an encouraging development for Carrie and her fans.
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dajross6
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Post by dajross6 on Oct 9, 2014 14:33:45 GMT -5
Sure, it makes sense that it will chart on Christian charts. Ruling the charts there based on Country Airplay is inherently unfair though, much the same as "Cruise" ruling the country charts for literally half a year when it was already recurrent on Country Airplay. I've always thought a song should share sales across all genres, but overall AI should stick with the genre being charted. Unfortunately that will never happen with the Billboard chart change to reflect Hot 100 rankings.
Besides, it's not embarrassing at all to say the #1 Country song of all time is sung by Nelly.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Oct 9, 2014 22:06:28 GMT -5
Of course downloads in general are down from when "GG" was released. A more relevant comparison would be the iTunes positions of the songs. Was "GG" still top 10 over a week after its release?
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Oct 10, 2014 15:40:55 GMT -5
This has burned out on me pretty quickly. Probably faster than any of her other singles. :( I feel bad for you because even though I liked it from the jump, I like it even more now. Carrie gets me swept up with the power of her performance.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Oct 11, 2014 15:01:39 GMT -5
If Something In The Water marches up the chart fairly quickly and Something Bad continues to climb, is it possible for Carrie Underwood to have concurrent top tens?
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Oct 11, 2014 15:44:42 GMT -5
If Something In The Water marches up the chart fairly quickly and Something Bad continues to climb, is it possible for Carrie Underwood to have concurrent top tens? Think you answered your own question.
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