Future Captain
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hi, i'm the visual representation of untreated mental illnesses
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Post by Future Captain on Nov 5, 2014 4:57:44 GMT -5
Guys, I think we already got the official number. 1,287 Million is the final number according to Billboard. I don't know what to feel about this.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 5:52:25 GMT -5
From Taylor's Facebook page:
"Industry experts predicted 1989 would sell 650k first week. You went and bought 1.287 million albums. AND IT'S GOT ME LIKE:" [insert 12 second Facebook video that I don't know how to embed]
So it sounds like 1.287 million is what the Billboard report will be.
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sbp17
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Post by sbp17 on Nov 5, 2014 5:58:07 GMT -5
What industry experts? Heck, even here on Pulse, only less than 10% thought she'd sell less than 750K. She exceeded most expectations (except Joe!!!!) certainly but I don't recall a lot of prognostications that low.
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slw84
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Post by slw84 on Nov 5, 2014 7:19:47 GMT -5
Wait what? 1.267. WELL I TAKE BACK saying for sure that she was going to sell more. STILL those "britney stans" that don't even frequent the base shouldn't have made us real stans look bad. Congratulations to Taylor for making history with 3 million seller debuts. Congratulations to Britney who will now maintain the record not only for 15 actual years but for 15 calendar years until Hurricane Adele comes in. Now all the non Britney fans throwing shade...no words. All of the Taylor stans shading Britney...no words. All of the Britney stans shading Taylor...no words. Everyone that came in here and were respectful Life feels so much freer taking the classy approach
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J'back
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Post by J'back on Nov 5, 2014 7:38:47 GMT -5
Wait what? 1.267. WELL I TAKE BACK saying for sure that she was going to sell more. STILL those "britney stans" that don't even frequent the base shouldn't have made us real stans look bad.Congratulations to Taylor for making history with 3 million seller debuts. Congratulations to Britney who will now maintain the record not only for 15 actual years but for 15 calendar years until Hurricane Adele comes in. Now all the non Britney fans throwing shade...no words. All of the Taylor stans shading Britney...no words. All of the Britney stans shading Taylor...no words. Everyone that came in here and were respectful Life feels so much freer taking the classy approach
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Post by ctmoonstoneheart on Nov 5, 2014 8:12:52 GMT -5
it was 1.287.000 posted by billboard last night
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badrobot
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Post by badrobot on Nov 5, 2014 8:20:39 GMT -5
What's with this "padding" talk? How exactly do you guys think a label could manipulate Soundscan numbers? If labels want to sell more copies of something, basically they can cut the price or create other special offers around it, but customers still have to buy it. Have you guys who believe in padding actually thought through how that would be achieved? You have a lot to learn. Enlighten me. What's the process by which a label corrupts a 3rd party like soundscan? Labels can now buy AirPlay through clear channel deals. They can do "free cd with ticket" redemption deals (MDNA). They can slash prices to spur sales. But those are things we know about and have been used as questionable loopholes. This padding thing is unexplained. I know it sure seems fun to imagine nefarious background deals but seriously explain the padding process.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Nov 5, 2014 8:24:52 GMT -5
We could make a list of albums that Taylor has outsold in one week. :) Miley Cyrus-Bangerz Lucy Hale-The Road Between etc. She outsold Artpop in 2 days. And Shakira's last 3 albums combined.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Nov 5, 2014 8:46:02 GMT -5
What industry experts? Heck, even here on Pulse, only less than 10% thought she'd sell less than 750K. She exceeded most expectations (except Joe!!!!) certainly but I don't recall a lot of prognostications that low. Yea I was like, "maybe she sells 800k which would be still great"... 1.287 million is simply astounding! No need to twist that around.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Nov 5, 2014 11:42:55 GMT -5
Enlighten me. What's the process by which a label corrupts a 3rd party like soundscan? Labels can now buy AirPlay through clear channel deals. They can do "free cd with ticket" redemption deals (MDNA). They can slash prices to spur sales. But those are things we know about and have been used as questionable loopholes. This padding thing is unexplained. I know it sure seems fun to imagine nefarious background deals but seriously explain the padding process. Let's say I own a restaurant, and I want as many positive Trip Advisor comments as possible. It wouldn't be allowed by the same email address or username, or else everyone would see that and think it's fishy. You could maybe make one or two from different emails. But let's say this is a big restaurant. Let's say you have 200 employees. Let's say all those employees have a spouse. Maybe kids too? Friends maybe? How many of those? How bout all of them having 2-3 different emails? Maybe more? Then there are 7 days in a week, and 24 hours in a day. Maybe I will compensate you for your time and efforts. Maybe I want you to do something on a Monday and a Thursday. Maybe I want your close friend to make a comment on Tuesday at noon from the library, and then another one when they come home from work Friday night. I'll even tell you what to say. Remember, I'll pay you. I want my restaurant to have good ratings. I'll make more money potentially that way. Plus, it will create the sense of "momentum". My restaurant will just blow up, cuz it will look like everyone's going there! It'll be a win-win for everyone, I can't wait. So how many Trip Advisor comments could I potentially have in only one week? ;)
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Nov 5, 2014 11:47:56 GMT -5
I love a good conspiracy theory. - LOL
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Post by Push The Button on Nov 5, 2014 11:49:34 GMT -5
Don't forget to make all of these people sign confidentiality agreements.
We are a floundering company who will pay big to come out at a loss.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Nov 5, 2014 12:34:03 GMT -5
You can even take it one step further (if you catch my drift)...
Let's say within this restaurant you have a pasta dish. It's super easy to make, won't cost much, but it will be tasty. I want to sell as much of it as I can! I use that same approach and have everybody raving about how awesome this pasta dish is. People will see the comments and, because humans are basically sheep, will want to try the dish out as well. I will make a fortune! Why? Because my profit margin was really high. Heck, let's even have a groupon promoting it. That will get them to buy it! ;)
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Nov 5, 2014 12:47:37 GMT -5
Enlighten me. What's the process by which a label corrupts a 3rd party like soundscan? Labels can now buy AirPlay through clear channel deals. They can do "free cd with ticket" redemption deals (MDNA). They can slash prices to spur sales. But those are things we know about and have been used as questionable loopholes. This padding thing is unexplained. I know it sure seems fun to imagine nefarious background deals but seriously explain the padding process. I work for a label. I go on Target.com. I buy 50 copies of Red. 100 of my colleagues do it. 5K copies right there. We then do the same on WalMart.com, BestBuy.com, etc. I go on iTunes. I gift the album for 100 people. 100 of my colleagues do it. 10K copies right there. I go to Target at 8AM and buy as many as I can carry. I go back at 5PM and buy more. I drive to the Target in the next town and do the same at 9AM and 6PM. I go to the one next to that and do the same thing at 10AM and 7PM. 100 of my colleagues do it. -- And that's all above board stuff. It doesn't even account for any *truly* shady practices like paying off Best Buy locations to order extra boxes of albums (and then passing them off), which I'm sure happens as well. -- SoundScan measures purchases at retail outlets. There is no reason those purchases couldn't be made by people working for or on behalf of the label. They're corrupting the data pool - not screwing over how SoundScan interprets that data. -- Again, I hate coming off like I'm arguing that this tally was padded, because I'm not. The people pushing padding actually seem to be people bringing it up for the sole purpose of saying it didn't happen. But it obviously DOES exist and obviously isn't hard to pull off.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Nov 5, 2014 12:56:12 GMT -5
It would have to be even more fine-tuned than that tho, as I don't think you can buy 50 albums at once and have them all count. Unless of course you stood there and made the clerk ring them all up seperately, or in groups of 3 or so. ;)
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Nov 5, 2014 13:01:27 GMT -5
I thought bulk purchases weren't credited by Soundscan? So, 100 purchases from one person wouldn't register as 100 units sold?
Regardless, if there is such prominent padding going on within the industry, what a sad, sad testament for the artists who struggle to sell 1/5 of what Taylor does. lol
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Nov 5, 2014 13:05:54 GMT -5
I thought bulk purchases weren't credited by Soundscan? So, 100 purchases from one person wouldn't register as 100 units sold? Regardless, if there is such prominent padding going on within the industry, what a sad, sad testament for the artists who struggle to sell 1/5 of what Taylor does. lol Was just giving an extreme example. Not sure it could happen exactly as I said, but I'm pretty confident that through coordinated efforts, a record label could "pad" data while legitimately going through the purchasing process. It doesn't have to be as shady or back-alley as the one poster was suggesting. But you're absolutely right about the second part. It only takes, what, 25K to go Top 10 most weeks? So it actually frustrates me when indies, let alone majors, aren't buying their emerging artists Top 10 debuts... That's equivalent to one, maybe two 30-second TV commercials. And arguably far more valuable publicity.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Nov 5, 2014 13:07:42 GMT -5
I thought bulk purchases weren't credited by Soundscan? So, 100 purchases from one person wouldn't register as 100 units sold? Regardless, if there is such prominent padding going on within the industry, what a sad, sad testament for the artists who struggle to sell 1/5 of what Taylor does. lol Bulk purchases aren't counted by soundscan, but who knows what they consider a bulk purchase. 50 copies? 100? 1000? It wouldn't be hard to give 20 interns a credit card and tell them each to go to 10 stores and buy 10 copies each.
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badrobot
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Post by badrobot on Nov 5, 2014 13:13:29 GMT -5
^To the above theories:
- Soundscan looks for aberrant sales. Large bulk purchases would be flagged. - Having individuals buy a handful of copies is certainly doable. But when you're talking tens of thousands of sales, the level of coordinated effort to accomplish this in a few days seems too complex to make more than a tiny dent. And if they DID have this level of coordination, there's no way people wouldn't have leaked that they were asked to do this. - And if this is so prevalent, wouldn't Mariah have done it for the Babs/Paramore epic week? Wouldn't Kanye and Lil Wayne have done this when their albums were just shy of 1 million?
I certainly believe labels can find ways to pump sales up a little bit here and there, but you guys were making it sound like they just call up Soundscan and say "hey just add 50k more to the total please, here's some money."
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AP
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Post by AP on Nov 5, 2014 13:15:25 GMT -5
I thought bulk purchases weren't credited by Soundscan? So, 100 purchases from one person wouldn't register as 100 units sold? Regardless, if there is such prominent padding going on within the industry, what a sad, sad testament for the artists who struggle to sell 1/5 of what Taylor does. lol Bulk purchases aren't counted by soundscan, but who knows what they consider a bulk purchase. 50 copies? 100? 1000? It wouldn't be hard to give 20 interns a credit card and tell them each to go to 10 stores and buy 10 copies each. lol this just doesn't happen.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Nov 5, 2014 13:18:18 GMT -5
^To the above theories: - Soundscan looks for aberrant sales. Large bulk purchases would be flagged. - Having individuals buy a handful of copies is certainly doable. But when you're talking tens of thousands of sales, the level of coordinated effort to accomplish this in a few days seems too complex to make more than a tiny dent. And if they DID have this level of coordination, there's no way people wouldn't have leaked that they were asked to do this. - And if this is so prevalent, wouldn't Mariah have done it for the Babs/Paramore epic week? Wouldn't Kanye and Lil Wayne have done this when their albums were just shy of 1 million? I certainly believe labels can find ways to pump sales up a little bit here and there, but you guys were making it sound like they just call up Soundscan and say "hey just add 50k more to the total please, here's some money." Who's to say they don't? I'm sure they are corrupt as well. iTunes is corrupt. Radio is definitely corrupt. Billboard is corrupt. They add and subtract things from their formula all the time without telling anyone. It really puts a damper on following music and the charts, but it is what it is.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Nov 5, 2014 13:28:53 GMT -5
To put things in perspective, think about Google. Think of all the people who work for Google. There is an algorithm/formula in place for how they rank websites. Google has been around since 2003 and yet that formula has never been leaked to the public. It's the same concept.
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Taylor.
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Post by Taylor. on Nov 5, 2014 13:31:58 GMT -5
... so why aren't all artists opening to 1 million if Taylor's sales are so padded?
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Nov 5, 2014 13:43:54 GMT -5
... so why aren't all artists opening to 1 million if Taylor's sales are so padded? *I don't think anyone has even said they were padded. Just that it's naive to think padding doesn't happen when artists and insiders have said it happens. Plus, you know, that whole image thing that is kind of important to artists and their labels. But to answer your question: -- Padding needs to believable. It's why no one is saying, "How come BMLG didn't pad 1989 so that it beat the all-time record for a solo artist or even the N Sync overall record." -- Padding is relative. Remember, it costs money for a label to pad a sales total; it's thus unwise to pad to score the biggest total possible. You would pad only enough to achieve whatever milestone or chart position is of importance. Since 20K copies gets you on the radar and 100K is a big hit in this day and age, why would a label waste money buying a million copies of its own album?
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Nov 5, 2014 13:43:59 GMT -5
Bulk purchases aren't counted by soundscan, but who knows what they consider a bulk purchase. 50 copies? 100? 1000? It wouldn't be hard to give 20 interns a credit card and tell them each to go to 10 stores and buy 10 copies each. lol this just doesn't happen. I didn't say it happens. But to act like it is some impossibility for a label to move a few thousand copies on the margin is ridiculous.
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Nov 5, 2014 13:48:05 GMT -5
Much easier to do it online from the comfort of a computer chair vs. physically going out and buying copies. You basically have 1000's of outlets available from your fingertips, not just whatever town you're in.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Nov 5, 2014 13:52:47 GMT -5
"She took her music off Spotify to take a stand for artists in the industry against piracy..artists are paid less than a fraction of a cent per stream on Spotify. True fans would pay for her music willingly as I'm sure many here do. You support her, or you don't. And I do."
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Post by Push The Button on Nov 5, 2014 13:55:41 GMT -5
Wait, you thought I was serious?
I know and work with label people on a daily basis. This is a fantasy.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Nov 5, 2014 13:56:58 GMT -5
It's the payola debate all over again. I've no doubt there is corruption somewhere along the line and that it does happen but it's highly unlikely it's as common or simple as is being suggested here. Plus I doubt time and money would be wasted trying to beat Britney's record when they already have an album with bigger sales than anything since 2002. That's probably a much bigger story than biggest opening sales by a female solo artist, especially since that wasn't even brought up as a possibility by anyone outside of Pulse in the week leading up the numbers reveal.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Nov 5, 2014 14:05:56 GMT -5
It's the payola debate all over again. I've no doubt there is corruption somewhere along the line and that it does happen but it's highly unlikely it's as common or simple as is being suggested here. Plus I doubt time and money would be wasted trying to beat Britney's record when they already have an album with bigger sales than anything since 2002. That's probably a much bigger story than biggest opening sales by a female solo artist, especially since that wasn't even brought up as a possibility by anyone outside of Pulse in the week leading up the numbers reveal. But that's the opposite of the argument that raised the padding debate in the first place. The padding debate emerged due to the suggestion that "If BMLG were going to pad, it would have broken the record." If you don't think BMLG cares about that record (and you're echoing what I brought up earlier about how no major media was playing up Britney), then it becomes conceivable (not factual) that Big Machine padded what might have been an organic total of 1 million to beat the Red sales mark.
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