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Post by areyoureadytojump on Dec 3, 2014 15:53:44 GMT -5
^Oh, you are talking about Ariana.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Dec 3, 2014 19:35:26 GMT -5
Confirmed by the RIAA. No changes to album certifications:
Chart News @chartnews on Twitter:
@riaa But the album sold 407,000. Is there some new rule?
Liz Kennedy @lizskennedy on Twitter:
@chartnews @riaa. No change! 1M sold indeed. G&P awards aren't SoundScan sales.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Dec 3, 2014 19:44:18 GMT -5
Ok that is impossible. I'm calling bullshit. It didnt move 600k units last week.
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RockaByeBaby
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Post by RockaByeBaby on Dec 3, 2014 19:49:04 GMT -5
Lmao what a mess. Ariana's team knew what they were doing pulling this stunt on the week the Billboard 200 changes with streaming/TEA points went in full effect too.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Dec 3, 2014 19:55:05 GMT -5
^Republic showed the RIAA that 1 million units were shipped to retailers for the Christmas shopping season.
Some will be returned in January, but the certification will stand.
I thought for sure Interscope would have done the same thing for GaGa last year. They didn't. ArtPop hasn't been certified Gold.
In RIAA speak, they never say "shipped." It's always "sold."
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Dec 3, 2014 20:12:28 GMT -5
Interestingly enough, Nielsen hasn't applied this method yet on the Canadian album chart, though I'm sure they will sometime soon.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Dec 3, 2014 23:38:12 GMT -5
What exactly was the rationale for using shipments rather than end-user sales anyway?
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Dec 4, 2014 2:40:02 GMT -5
It's not completely impossible that 400k selling album is certified platinum.. Wasn't 1989 3xP right out of the gate? I also remember Mariah Carey's Charmbracelet being platinum in one week when it opened with 241k. And then there's the 120 min rule which means Garth Brooks' Double Live is 2465216 x platinum
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Dec 4, 2014 6:37:05 GMT -5
What exactly was the rationale for using shipments rather than end-user sales anyway? I think it's a hold over from pre-SoundScan right? The only "reliable" source of numbers before register tracking was label shipment figures
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trebor
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Post by trebor on Dec 4, 2014 8:19:38 GMT -5
What exactly was the rationale for using shipments rather than end-user sales anyway? I think it's a hold over from pre-SoundScan right? The only "reliable" source of numbers before register tracking was label shipment figures The RIAA certification is for shipments and not for over-the-counter sales. In the (deep) past the only "reliable" audit source for certification were the shipping notes and invoices to record stores, record chain buying units, rack jobbers and record clubs. Until the mid-/end 90s no one really knew the very exact POS data. Soundscan started to collect data on a sample market panel and adjusted the sales to represent 100% of the country. Still today some sales figures are not automatically synchronised with the Soundscan database; and have to be added by hand. If I am not totally mistaken if mostly affects Latin & Christian. Nowadays, the physical stores that still operate have way more accurate information and market data in order not to over-stock and only buy what really sells; i.e. today the sales and certification figures are very close together; i.e. there is less dead/slow moving stock lying around. In the past you could have a triple platinum certification and still only have 1.2M units soundscan ned; the difference being copies in stores yet unsold and sales to record clubs which were not tracked (and this sales channel was huge).
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jjose712
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Post by jjose712 on Dec 4, 2014 8:38:47 GMT -5
Sam Smith's album is also Platinum now, or was it already certified before? SMITH, SAM IN THE LONELY HOUR JUNE 17, 2014 NOVEMBER 25, 2014 CAPITOL RECORDS STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM NONE via riaa.com He was done before the change. Ariana's was just certified yesterday for both GOLD and PLATINUM. In fact Sam Smith will pass 1 million in album sales probably next week
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Dec 4, 2014 9:22:41 GMT -5
What exactly was the rationale for using shipments rather than end-user sales anyway? When SoundScan began in Jan/March/May 1991 (I've read all 3 months for when SS began) it only covered 60% of the market. In the last 8 years or so, record clubs closed and all the mom & pop places that sold albums have all but disappeared. So certifications have closely matched SS sales. Labels know how to work the RIAA system. If they want to spend the $$$... It's just weird now for albums to be certified Gold when they have sold less than 425k and are falling off the charts.
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popstop
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Post by popstop on Dec 5, 2014 12:24:46 GMT -5
Shipping just feels like such an anachronism anymore. I remember when there used to be actual music stores you could visit and buy music, and there were listening stations and everything. RIP Tower Records. It just blows me away that shipping can still be such a big factor in certification. I wonder what the percentage of sales is that is digital these days.
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trebor
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Post by trebor on Dec 5, 2014 14:11:15 GMT -5
Edited It just blows me away that shipping can still be such a big factor in certification. I wonder what the percentage of sales is that is digital these days. Up to 11/23/14: Albums: Physical (all supports) = roughly >56% / Digital = roughly <44% 118M vs. 92M. Total ~209M.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Dec 5, 2014 16:49:19 GMT -5
So if the 1500 streams equivalent is intended to approximate the revenue generated from an album sale, how is it fair to require 1500 streams to equal an EP sale that's half the price? 1500 streams from a $4.99 EP would generate revenue equal to 2 EP sales, but as far as I've seem this hadn't been addressed
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swim
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Post by swim on Dec 6, 2014 12:28:08 GMT -5
Not opposed to a chart like this, but it just seems messy at this point and just a way to boost numbers. It makes no sense to use this chart now to compare it to album sales before this chart. Physical singles were a thing back in the day and selling 10 of those didn't count towards one album sale lol. If individual tracks now count towards a total it's obviously helping the artists who put all their balls into two tracks for a 12 track album.
It's good to know where the 1500 figure is coming from for streams, but what streaming services are included?
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swim
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Post by swim on Dec 6, 2014 12:36:21 GMT -5
And maybe I missed it somewhere, but will lead singles be added to this chart total before an album is released? How does that work? Or would a lead single chart separately here from the album? Will they be added to the total once the album is released to make debut weeks even higher?
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Dec 6, 2014 12:54:21 GMT -5
And maybe I missed it somewhere, but will lead singles be added to this chart total before an album is released? How does that work? Or would a lead single chart separately here from the album? Will they be added to the total once the album is released to make debut weeks even higher? No, an album can't chart until the full album is released. And figures from before album release aren't included in the first week.
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swim
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Post by swim on Dec 6, 2014 13:11:59 GMT -5
Which is just another inconsistency in this chart. If this was thought through more I think a chart like this could be a good idea. Right now it just doesn't make sense.
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Keelzit
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Post by Keelzit on Dec 6, 2014 20:48:11 GMT -5
What if a song is included in both an LP and an EP or even a various artists compilation though? Let's say a single sells a million downloads in a very quiet week and is included in all of the aforementioned releases. Could all 3 surge into the top 3 of the chart because of that one song or will there be some kind of sharing between them? This is all too confusing but exciting as well.
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rimetm
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Post by rimetm on Dec 6, 2014 20:52:37 GMT -5
Ooh, compilations counting singles is especially worrisome. I follow and love "NOW", but I imagine "NOW 53" is going to be a bit unfairly propped up, especially if they choose "Blank Space", "Uptown Funk!", and whatever other songs end up especially strong in sales in February. Hopefully, that'll be clarified soon (I can't really tell from NOW 52 since it falls 12-14, and with the arrivals of Ariana and couple of others, it could mean the track sales from its hits prevented it from falling further or it's just hit stability in album sales)
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Dec 6, 2014 21:39:26 GMT -5
Ok, so I understand 10 track downloads equal 1 album under the new formula, but what happens when the album is still not available? Let's say Rihanna's next lead single will sell 1 mi copies before the album is actually released, does that mean Billboard will add those 100k "albums" to the album's first week figures, or will they be discarded?
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Dec 7, 2014 8:36:09 GMT -5
What if a song is included in both an LP and an EP or even a various artists compilation though? Let's say a single sells a million downloads in a very quiet week and is included in all of the aforementioned releases. Could all 3 surge into the top 3 of the chart because of that one song or will there be some kind of sharing between them? This is all too confusing but exciting as well. Based on The New classic/reclassified, the streaming & TEA are added to the higher raw sales release. All the extra points from fancy & black widow were added to reclassified. The new classic had minimal streaming/tea benefit
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popstop
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Post by popstop on Dec 7, 2014 11:35:03 GMT -5
That's interesting. I can't say I agree with that approach. If we have to include streaming, I think it should count towards the album from which the song was initially promoted. It seems that Billboard's determination will be of odd benefit to compilations like the NOW series.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Dec 7, 2014 12:44:36 GMT -5
When I download a song off of iTunes, it is tied to one specific album or it says "single". Tracks eventually show up on Now compilations or greatest hits albums or even soundtracks.. However, unless you downloaded the song tied to each and every album it appears on, why would it count towards multiple albums?
Example, if you downloaded a Rihanna track off a Now album it would count towards the Now album only and not every other album that it appears on.
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WotUNeed
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Post by WotUNeed on Dec 7, 2014 12:44:43 GMT -5
Now 52 is currently top 20 - are there numbers available for us to tell if it's getting any benefit from TEAs or if Billboard is discarding them for multi-artist compilations? Given the large boost that, for example, 5 Seconds of Summer saw, it seems unlikely to me that it isn't benefiting from sales of "Amnesia" despite the track's inclusion on Now.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Dec 7, 2014 12:48:30 GMT -5
Looking at HDD's numbers, Now 52 went from 50,072 raw sales to 53,793 with streaming/TEA. The sales of AATB alone would have been substantially more than that 3k increase. All tracks on Now albums are album only, so it can't be from people cherry picking Bailando off Now and not Sex & Love. And I dont believe the US Now albums are available for streaming either.
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trebor
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Post by trebor on Dec 7, 2014 14:49:08 GMT -5
Now 52 is currently top 20 - are there numbers available for us to tell if it's getting any benefit from TEAs or if Billboard is discarding them for multi-artist compilations? Given the large boost that, for example, 5 Seconds of Summer saw, it seems unlikely to me that it isn't benefiting from sales of "Amnesia" despite the track's inclusion on Now. I am not allowed to give you straight figures (please do not ask for it). #14 - NOW 52 Gets about 9% of sales through digital tracks and streaming #90 - NOW 51 Ranked by pure album sales; gets 0 points from digital tracks & streaming #139 - NOW 50 Gets about 61% of sales through digital tracks and streaming #179 - NOW Christmas Ranked by pure album sales; gets 0 points from digital tracks & streaming We have not yet figured out how the tracks and streams are allocated to the different albums, various artists, multiple Greatest Hits,etc. Some Catalog and Greatest Hits benefit from added track sales/streaming others are definitely not. Up to now it is still a mystery. We hope to crack the formula soon ;)
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Dec 9, 2014 15:42:37 GMT -5
Has some good info: www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/6385927/billboard-200-chart-moves-guardians-on-cassette-cashes-inBillboard 200 Chart Moves: 'Guardians' on Cassette Cashes InBy Keith Caulfield | December 06, 2014 8:08 PM EST On the latest Billboard 200 albums chart, Taylor Swift's 1989 returned to No. 1 (for a fourth non-consecutive week), while Pentatonix hit a new chart high, as the a cappella group's That's Christmas To Me stepped 3-2. The new chart was also the first compiled using a new multi-metric consumption methodology, adding together pure album sales with track equivalent album sales (TEA) and streaming equivalent albums (SEA). Of course, there was lots of action elsewhere on the chart outside the top two positions. Let's take a closer look: -- Soundtrack, Guardians of the Galaxy (No. 17) - A cassette version of the album was released to Record Store Day-affiliated retailers for Black Friday (Nov. 28), and the retro configuration sold a little more than 1,000 copies in the week ending Nov. 30. That translated to 3 percent of the album's sales for the week. (1,000 copies of something may not sound like a lot, but that's a very significant number for an essentially dormant format of music.) -- Iggy Azalea, Reclassified (No. 27) - Azalea's second album is a quasi-repackaging of her debut, The New Classic. However, as the new set (which starts with 34,000 equivalent units) only retains five songs from the original album and has a new title, it charts separately from the original (which ranks at No. 70). -- Beyonce, Beyonce (No. 39) - An expanded reissue of the album was combined for charting purposes with the original release, thus prompting its overall 825 percent total equivalent unit gain (and up 713 percent in album sales). -- Echosmith, Talking Dreams (No. 109) - H alf of this album's equivalent units are owed to TEA and SEA, thanks in large part to its hit single "Cool Kids." -- Susan Boyle, Hope (No. 128) - The album (8,000 equivalent units) was effectively ignored on streaming services during the tracking week, and sold very few tracks. So, the album charts almost entirely (99.7 percent) from pure album sales. On the Top Album Sales chart — which ranks the top selling albums of the week — it sits at No. 99. -- Garth Brooks, The Ultimate Hits (No. 158) - As Brooks' catalog of albums is absent from all streaming services, and all digital retailers for a la carte song purchases, The Ultimate Hits is charting from only album sales (7,000 for the week). -- Soundtrack, Elf (No. 175) - Big-selling theatrical film soundtracks that double as holiday albums are rare. Elf, with 695,000 copies sold, is the second-biggest of the genre since SoundScan started tracking sales in 1991, behind only The Polar Express (724,000). -- Various Artists, Nashville Christmas (No. 195) - Compilation albums only earn units from TEA and SEA if the set's songs are unavailable elsewhere. This title, which consists of all previously-released material, therefore doesn't receive any TEA or SEA units.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Dec 9, 2014 18:10:11 GMT -5
So how did Now 52 get 9% of its units from TEA/SEA? All of those songs are available individually on their respective parent albums.
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