SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on Nov 20, 2014 15:25:57 GMT -5
Which chart does this start on?
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Nov 20, 2014 15:30:11 GMT -5
Which chart does this start on? 1st published chart in December |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 20, 2014 15:45:09 GMT -5
So if a person streams ONE song from an album 1,500 times, it will be considered 1 WHOLE album sale? In theory, yes. But in practice it's basically impossible. Take Trumpets by Jason Derulo, for example. If you really wanted to get him an album sale out of that song, you would have to listen to that one song for 90 hours and 30 minutes. That's almost 4 straight days of nothing but streaming that one song. Keep in mind for it to count as a sale, you'll need 1500 streams within the same tracking period. And 1 or 2 sales on the margin are not effecting anybody's totals in a meaningful way. For one person, yes, but 1500 people could stream it once. So, is it 1500 streams for each song on the album is 1 sale? For instance, if I listen to all 13 songs on an album, that's the same as listening to 1 song 13 times, right? |
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Nov 20, 2014 15:50:12 GMT -5
In theory, yes. But in practice it's basically impossible. Take Trumpets by Jason Derulo, for example. If you really wanted to get him an album sale out of that song, you would have to listen to that one song for 90 hours and 30 minutes. That's almost 4 straight days of nothing but streaming that one song. Keep in mind for it to count as a sale, you'll need 1500 streams within the same tracking period. And 1 or 2 sales on the margin are not effecting anybody's totals in a meaningful way. For one person, yes, but 1500 people could stream it once. So, is it 1500 streams for each song on the album is 1 sale? For instance, if I listen to all 13 songs on an album, that's the same as listening to 1 song 13 times, right? The way it is described it is 1500 streams total from any combination of the tracks on an album. If you listen to 13 songs 1 time, 1 song 13 times or 2 songs 5 times and 1 song 3 times, it would all count as 13 streams toward the 1500 for 1 album equivalent. |
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👑 Eloquent ™
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Post by 👑 Eloquent ™ on Nov 20, 2014 16:44:40 GMT -5
Mess.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Nov 20, 2014 16:57:11 GMT -5
Which chart does this start on? 1st published chart in December Dec. 13 Billboard charts |
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Spidey
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Post by Spidey on Nov 20, 2014 17:00:59 GMT -5
1st published chart in December Dec. 13 Billboard charts That makes sense given that is the start of the Billboard chart year, right? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 17:13:05 GMT -5
I presume this is not retroactive. So now I'm genuinely curious
1) what albums, if any, will "outperform" Taylor's raw sales numbers even with this streams+downloads boost
2) how they will state the performance for albums that were released this year but whose cycles continue into the next (ex., Taylor herself will benefit some from the TEA downloads).
They could make the TEA sales part of it a bit cleaner by only counting album cuts, but understandably not everyone is going to agree with not including sales of a song merely because it was an official single.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Nov 20, 2014 17:21:24 GMT -5
That makes sense given that is the start of the Billboard chart year, right? The Billboard chart year starts 12/6. The should wait until the first week of 2015. |
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dzjx
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Post by dzjx on Nov 20, 2014 17:42:33 GMT -5
DAMMIT I was trying to quote whoever pointed out that 1500 streams earns about as much money as one album sale does, but I hit the wrong post quote button and im on my phone so I can't go back without losing everything i just typed. Well this post is a response to that just so you know. Actually that kind of hits on the true problem i have with this...even before seeing your post my first thought was, they must have picked the number of streams that earn the label the same amount of money. Good to see that theory proven correct, but then that means they are basing this new chart at least partially on revenue - NOT on popularity as some insist the charts are supposed to measure. So which is it? We don't know, Billboard doesn't know, and even the labels might not know even though they're probably the ones who pushed for this. This brings to question what can truly be called 'popular.' just speaking personally the way i feel about people and songs that i only like enough to stream is not nearly as deep as how i feel about people and songs that i like so much that i want to buy them. Other people may feel differently. Im sure the artists involved think there's a difference between a stream and a purchase, especially since that 1500: 1 ratio doesn't seem to factor in THEIR revenue at at all. There's no consistent way to add it in. I know this was inevitable but frankly it's too many moving parts and will always be too messy to regard as an accurate measure of anything other than the labels' bottom line. And you know, i could live with that if they would just admit that is what it is meant to do. When they try to pass it off as a true aggregate of poplarity they just sound full of s**t to me. It was me who pointed that out, and these are good points you have raised. but in this day and age it is difficult for anyone to determine what is popular, I mean there are so many different ways of consuming music these days. I think though that just doing sales at this point seems really outdated its just not the only form of listening to music. if Ed Sheeran sells 2m albums worldwide and 20m illegal album downloads that are not counted but Madonna sells 3m albums worldwide and only 2m illegal download albums who has the most popular album? Its all very tricky and I don't think there is a right answer to this but I dont think solely sales show a true reflection of popularity anymore. And as for the counting popularity by revenue isnt a true measure. while that is arguable, it may help to point out that the gaming industry and the movie industry often cite revenue as a measure of popularity. |
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Pink Pvssy
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Post by Pink Pvssy on Nov 20, 2014 17:47:53 GMT -5
I'm glad Barbra Streisand got her #1 before they decided to implement this mess.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Nov 20, 2014 17:48:45 GMT -5
Honestly, the streaming is not going to impact the chart that much (yet). What is really going to shake up the chart is including TEA track sales. The #1 selling digital single is going to start off at about 10-20k TEA sales every week. The #1 on-demand streaming song is only going to start with about 2-3k album sales a week.
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imbondz
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Post by imbondz on Nov 20, 2014 18:07:04 GMT -5
As much as I love seeing all the older artists in the top ten (even scoring late career #1s) the BB200 has looked ridiculous for a while now. Young people are still listening to albums, they just aren't buying them. The album chart should reflect that. But the album chart was never a chart about listening to music, only buying. I listened to tons of music in college I never bought through friends, live music, radio...etc. |
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Nov 20, 2014 18:13:08 GMT -5
I know this has been asked, but what is TEA, I know what it stands for, but what does it MEAN?
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RockaByeBaby
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Post by RockaByeBaby on Nov 20, 2014 18:17:38 GMT -5
I know this has been asked, but what is TEA, I know what it stands for, but what does it MEAN? "Track Equivalent Albums is a term used to describe a method of converting the sale of individual songs (singles) into whole album numbers. In other words, every time ten units of a single are sold, those ten units are counted as one album sale. Track equivalent albums are considered a reliable means of gauging whether music fans are buying whole albums or are opting to buy single tracks instead." |
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popstop
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Post by popstop on Nov 20, 2014 18:24:31 GMT -5
From what I understand, a track equivalent album basically equates 10 individual track purchases to one album purchase (regardless of track).
^EDIT: What he said. ;)
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 20, 2014 19:25:52 GMT -5
And of course Billboard used Ariana Grande's album as an example. LOL! How much has her label been paying Billboard this era?
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Nov 20, 2014 19:32:49 GMT -5
Because they can't find more than the 12 people that bought Me I Am Mariah...The Elusive Chanteuse that want to listen to Mimi anymore.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 20, 2014 19:49:30 GMT -5
That makes sense given that is the start of the Billboard chart year, right? The Billboard chart year starts 12/6. The should wait until the first week of 2015. As of late Billboard has been doing this type of thing a lot. It's weird to institute a new policy 1 week into the chart year instead of starting the chart year with it. When they made the genre rule changes, didn't they do it a few weeks before the end of a chart year? Why not wait so all of the charts during the year are the same? So weird. |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Nov 21, 2014 17:36:27 GMT -5
That's still weird though...the fact that that is not a real representation of someone buying a whole album. That's just a song being stream and it should only count as such. MESS. It's a representation of someone contributing the equivalent of the revenue from an album sale to the project. The BB200, at its base, is and always has been a consumption chart. When LPs were the only way to consume an artist's music, that is where the revenue was generated. If I bought an album 15 years ago, it was because I liked the first single. Eagle Eye Cherry sold a million copies of his album in the late 90s because he had a hit single. Did any of those million+ people who bought his album care about any of the other songs? No. But he still has a platinum album because of it. The difference is that with streaming it can literally be proven people are only listening to 1 song. While the odds were very obvious that people only bought EEC's album because of the 1 song, it couldn't be proven that is the only one they liked. We can prove that with streaming. So, to consider those two the same things is off base to me. Rules and theories change as we have more information/technology, which makes sense. I think it's really lame that people listening to 1 specific song will count as a sale for an entire album. |
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85la
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Post by 85la on Nov 21, 2014 18:24:46 GMT -5
What I have the most problem with is allowing the same song being streamed multiple times by different people to count towards the 1500 streams total = 1 album sale. Same thing with TEA's: Ten different people buying the same song from an album...These scenarios in no way resemble one person consuming one album. To me, it only seems obvious that the same person would have to stream or purchase a majority of the songs (say 75%) on one album (times whatever factor for streaming) to equate to one album sale.
Also, what about the issue of double-counting? Can the same streams and sales that contribute to the Hot 100 also contribute to the Albums chart?
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Rumors
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Post by Rumors on Nov 22, 2014 10:52:28 GMT -5
I don't like the changes. I'll just follow the new album chart as well. I think this will turn out to be something that can be manipulated and it certainly helps the younger artist who'll have a 10 year old fan sit on the internet for hours watching the same video over and over.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Nov 22, 2014 11:17:46 GMT -5
LOL this cannot be manipulated more than the earlier chart. Or maybe 100,000 One Direction fans are spending DAYS listening only to "Four"?
If they actually are, that sort of determination should be rewarded!
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jjose712
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Post by jjose712 on Nov 22, 2014 15:20:10 GMT -5
LOL this cannot be manipulated more than the earlier chart. Or maybe 100,000 One Direction fans are spending DAYS listening only to "Four"? If they actually are, that sort of determination should be rewarded! Why? being obsessed and having too many time is not something that special. To be honest, i doubt i'll pay attention to the new billboard 200, instead i will follow the sales chart. If you want an album and you don't buy, or you don't have any money or you don't want the album that much. And yes, the fact that a lot of new stars are very far from the top of the albums chart and the labels don't like that is behind this mess. On the singles chart we had a top 10 that nobody knew due to a viral video, if something like that will happen with an album it will be even more ridiculous |
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upsidedown
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Post by upsidedown on Nov 22, 2014 15:29:16 GMT -5
Billboard 200 has always been about determining what is the 200 most popular albums in the country. As we all know, It is not necessarily about pure album sales anymore. This is a good thing, not a bad thing Not necessarily. An album could be flopping but *one* song could have a huge amount of streams from it and cause the album to spike. That's not saying the "ALBUM" is popular; it's only saying the song is. Yet this chart is saying the album is supposedly doing well.... when it could be on the strength of 1 or 2 songs. Meanwhile, on the sales album chart, it DOES mean the album is doing well because you bought the whole album... |
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Nov 22, 2014 16:28:59 GMT -5
LOL this cannot be manipulated more than the earlier chart. Or maybe 100,000 One Direction fans are spending DAYS listening only to "Four"? People are really overestimating how many times an individual listener can realistically stream an album during a week. Even if you left the album playing on a loop for the entire week not stopping it once, you're maybe going to be able to add 2 or 3 sales. Which is never going to happen anyway, and for all we know SoundScan will toss those streams coming from a single IP anyway, the same way they do bulk CD purchases. People need to look at real numbers and see what kind of impact on sales adding streaming will have. Streaming isn't what is going to have huge impacts on the chart. TEA downloads will. Let's take Hozier for an example. Take Me To Church was #1 last week on Spotify and would have added about 2000 in album equivalent sales. He had 2 other songs in the Top 200, which combined would have given him less than 500 additional album units. Meanwhile, Taylor Swift would have added 42k album equivalent sales from selling just Blank Space and Shake It Off, and probably several thousand more units when you add in all of her album tracks below the Top 10 that we dont have exact figures for. The problem here isn't teenagers streaming an album nonstop to manipulate the album chart. The problem is that including single sales at a rate of 10 units/TEA means that the #1 single on iTunes is always going to have a Top 10 album. |
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Envoirment
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Post by Envoirment on Nov 22, 2014 19:38:04 GMT -5
I think any songs that are singles should be exempt from counting towards the album. Otherwise huge hits will end up translating into album sales, when the albums themselves aren't necessarily being listened to. It should mean that the impact from streaming shouldn't have too big of an impact, but artists like Ed Sheeran and 1D will have a noticeable bump in sales because a lot of their album tracks seem to get a decent amount of streams, not just the singles. I think that would be a fair way to do it and allow distinction between the albums and singles chart rather than having singles merge into album sales.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Nov 22, 2014 21:05:59 GMT -5
The number of arists where there are going to be huge spikes just from streaming are very few. We aren't going to have a Harlem Shake rocketing an album from nowhere to #1 just from streaming because the number of units will still be far less than what will be sold in full physical and digital albums. I mean, Enrique Iglesias would have had an additional 500 albums last week from the streaming of Bailando on Spotify. 500 albums is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Blake Shelton's flopping album would have gotten an extra 333 copies from Spotify streams of Neon Light, which would have moved him #45 this week on the chart to #43. I dont know what what he would have gotten from TEA units but it's not streaming that is going to impact most artists numbers the most.
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Linnethia Monique
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Post by Linnethia Monique on Nov 22, 2014 22:50:31 GMT -5
The big boost in chart impact will come from digital sales, especially from the top sellers and album releases from their respective first week. With the digital sales of Ariana's 4 singles combined I could see where it would get a big boost back into the top 10.
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Keelzit
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Post by Keelzit on Nov 23, 2014 15:55:39 GMT -5
Can't wait to witness the messiest chart ever. I doubt anyone other than Billboard will take it seriously though. It'll be like the album version of that Top Artist/Social 40 waste of a chart they recently created so I don't think an album selling 500k being robbed from the top of the chart by someone selling a shitload of singles will mean that much to serious people.
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