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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Aug 28, 2015 23:37:25 GMT -5
"Lips of An Angel" my #2 song of that year. Nothing post-grunge about it, just a Great Rock power ballad. Wait. Wait. Wait. So you hate nearly everything now but you loved Lips Of An Angel? Ok Hell Yeah. You read that right. and with pride. If you have been paying attention; you'd know I'm a Hinder fanboy. At least when Austin was in the band. "Take It To The Limit" was the epic moment when you couldn't call em post grunge anymore. That album was pure glorified Hard Rock with a tint of Glam.
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Aug 28, 2015 23:39:03 GMT -5
BTW, "Renegades"? Outta there:w00t:
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Post by American Idiot on Aug 29, 2015 0:20:18 GMT -5
Wow, I can't believe Lips Of An Angel went Top 10 on Alternative when I just looked it up - IMO that song doesn't have one ounce of Alternativeness in it Alternative was a completely different format back then. Post-grunge bands were extremely popular and charted as well on Alternatve as they did on Active Rock. Those were the days when the two charts were extremely similar. Over the last few years, they haven't been more apart since I started listening to music over twenty years ago.
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ben777
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Post by ben777 on Aug 29, 2015 0:54:28 GMT -5
Wow, I can't believe Lips Of An Angel went Top 10 on Alternative when I just looked it up - IMO that song doesn't have one ounce of Alternativeness in it Alternative was a completely different format back then. Post-grunge bands were extremely popular and charted as well on Alternatve as they did on Active Rock. Those were the days when the two charts were extremely similar. Over the last few years, they haven't been more apart since I started listening to music over twenty years ago. Is Lips Of An Angel even post-grunge, though? For me, it almost seems pre-grunge, like it was modeled after Poison or Motley Crue
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Post by American Idiot on Aug 29, 2015 0:58:17 GMT -5
Alternative was a completely different format back then. Post-grunge bands were extremely popular and charted as well on Alternatve as they did on Active Rock. Those were the days when the two charts were extremely similar. Over the last few years, they haven't been more apart since I started listening to music over twenty years ago. Is Lips Of An Angel even post-grunge, though? For me, it almost seems pre-grunge, like it was modeled after Poison or Motley Crue I think Hinder as a band would be considered post-grunge for sure, but "Lips of an Angel"is very similar to the ballads of the hair metal bands of the 80s to me. Pre-grunge would pretty much make sense in that respect.
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ben777
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Post by ben777 on Aug 29, 2015 1:08:31 GMT -5
I really think what happened in the 2000s is that Active Rock radio was so popular, Alt stations purposely added in a lot of Active stuff in order to compete - if you model yourself after a hair metal band, by definition you're not Alternative, bc I'm almost sure that when the Alt movement started in the late 80s it was specifically a rock movement to give people an alternative to hair/pop metal
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Aug 29, 2015 2:25:36 GMT -5
I really think what happened in the 2000s is that Active Rock radio was so popular, Alt stations purposely added in a lot of Active stuff in order to compete - if you model yourself after a hair metal band, by definition you're not Alternative, bc I'm almost sure that when the Alt movement started in the late 80s it was specifically a rock movement to give people an alternative to hair/pop metal Alot of rockers would call Hair/Glam metal pussy rock(excluding myself, of course :)) because those bands had a top 10 hit almost every week, so what you said is true. Rockers wanted an Alternative but it wasn't long before the Alternative bands like Puddle Of Mudd, Nirvana, Foo Fighters ,STP, Pearl Jam also had top 40 pop hits as well. So you get the "Pre-Grunge" (much more apt label for them)bands,like, Nickelback, Hinder , Saving Abel, Shinedown and guess what? All soon get #1 hits on Pop. Pop just couldn't keep a good rock song off thier charts. Now it s all changed and Pop is garbage. No rock in sight for miles, except those AAA crossover songs to Alt, which I still concider thier success to be very suspicious, but whatever. I just hope one day Pop wakes up and starts getting into the great Rock/Alt stuff again.
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Post by Daryl the Beryl on Aug 29, 2015 3:35:50 GMT -5
How did the Renegades thread turn into discussing about rock and rool?
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Post by Pipa on Aug 29, 2015 23:51:48 GMT -5
How did the Renegades thread turn into discussing about rock and rool? Rock and rool is the most important music of our time. The legacy that Saliva and Papa Roach gave us will continue to live on.
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Butterflies & Hurricanes
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Post by Butterflies & Hurricanes on Aug 30, 2015 2:54:58 GMT -5
^ I think Alternative radio started losing its way when Candlebox started getting airplay, then came Days Of The New & later in the decade the wheels really came off when Limp Bizkit and Korn arrived...these are Active artists NOT Alternative...thankfully Alt programmers have finally seen the error of their ways and the format is back where it belongs
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Aug 30, 2015 3:12:56 GMT -5
^ I think Alternative radio started losing its way when Candlebox started getting airplay, then came Days Of The New & later in the decade the wheels really came off when Limp Bizkit and Korn arrived...these are Active artists NOT Alternative...thankfully Alt programmers have finally seen the error of their ways and the format is back where it belongs Not a fan of Limp nor Korn, but I'd rather hear them on Alt radio , than "Renegades". There I brought back the discussion to "Renegades"
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Post by Daryl the Beryl on Aug 30, 2015 6:11:58 GMT -5
Things your time could be better spent doing than complaining about Renegades or New Americana or Stolen Dance or Ex's and Oh's: 1) Literally anything fixed up your post a bit. The only reason why I should complain about Ex's & Oh's now is that it's going to take the Billboard Alternative #1 away from Cold War Kids.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Aug 30, 2015 8:08:41 GMT -5
^ I think Alternative radio started losing its way when Candlebox started getting airplay, then came Days Of The New & later in the decade the wheels really came off when Limp Bizkit and Korn arrived...these are Active artists NOT Alternative...thankfully Alt programmers have finally seen the error of their ways and the format is back where it belongs Not a fan of Limp nor Korn, but I'd rather hear them on Alt radio , than "Renegades". There I brought back the discussion to "Renegades" You have Active for them. There. Settled. Now the two formats can live in harmony again.
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Post by Pipa on Aug 30, 2015 8:39:45 GMT -5
^ I think Alternative radio started losing its way when Candlebox started getting airplay, then came Days Of The New & later in the decade the wheels really came off when Limp Bizkit and Korn arrived...these are Active artists NOT Alternative...thankfully Alt programmers have finally seen the error of their ways and the format is back where it belongs As for Days of the New, I think "Enemy" fits perfectly on Alternative.
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Post by shakermaker on Aug 30, 2015 9:19:19 GMT -5
Candlebox and Days of the New are def in the alt-rock wheelhouse, they're part of the initial wave ('94 to circa '97) of post-Nirvana grunge / post-grunge (in its original definition).
By "Active artists NOT Alternative" I think he was alluding only to Korn and Limp Bizkit, who are arguably more of metal bands than they are alternative rock bands (again, your mileage may vary)
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Post by ben777 on Aug 30, 2015 10:31:38 GMT -5
For me, it doesn't matter how heavy the music is, as long as it's innovative and lyrically different IMO it's still part of the Alternative genre (so for me, Korn, Limp Bizkit, etc. still seems Alternative) - but once you start throwing in bands with pop lyrics or lyrics mostly about sex (Hinder, Theory Of A Deadman, Nickelback), and bands with lyrics that are aggressive but often don't really mean anything (Chevelle, Shinedown, Disturbed), that's where IMO you're playing stuff that isn't Alternative at all, bc it's modeled after the kind of rock that Alternative was purposely separating itself from
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Post by Green Baron on Aug 30, 2015 11:22:55 GMT -5
Chevelle does not belong in that category at all. They're more in line with acts like Tool and Deftones, who fit in much more on Alt than they do on Active both lyrically and in ideology
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Post by Cody on Aug 30, 2015 15:34:45 GMT -5
Chevelle does not belong in that category at all. They're more in line with acts like Tool and Deftones, who fit in equally as much more on Alt as than they do on Active both lyrically and in ideology I think this is the better statement. There's a reason why active has always been a bit friendlier to these bands in just about every era, but they are 3 of by far the most friendly to both formats at the same time.
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Post by Cody on Aug 30, 2015 15:37:01 GMT -5
In addition Green Baron, I would wager that metalheads and hard rockers comprise of a greater chunk of the fanbases of those bands than punk rockers and alternative rockers.
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ben777
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Post by ben777 on Aug 30, 2015 21:43:34 GMT -5
Chevelle does not belong in that category at all. They're more in line with acts like Tool and Deftones, who fit in much more on Alt than they do on Active both lyrically and in ideology Is Take Out The Gunman not typical Chevelle? (Sorry, I was just going but that one song - and it def. doesn't belong in the same category with Tool and the Deftones)
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Post by Daryl the Beryl on Aug 30, 2015 21:45:42 GMT -5
Chevelle does not belong in that category at all. They're more in line with acts like Tool and Deftones, who fit in much more on Alt than they do on Active both lyrically and in ideology Is Take Out The Gunman not typical Chevelle? (Sorry, I was just going but that one song - and it def. doesn't belong in the same category with Tool and the Deftones) It is
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ben777
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Post by ben777 on Aug 30, 2015 21:56:50 GMT -5
Is Take Out The Gunman not typical Chevelle? (Sorry, I was just going but that one song - and it def. doesn't belong in the same category with Tool and the Deftones) It is I'd really have to disagree that Take Out The Gunman is post-grunge like Tool/Deftones - IMO it belongs in the same genre as 70s metal
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Post by Daryl the Beryl on Aug 30, 2015 21:58:27 GMT -5
I'd really have to disagree that Take Out The Gunman is post-grunge like Tool/Deftones - IMO it belongs in the same genre as 70s metal They're just as "alternative" as Breaking Benjamin or Adam Gontier-Three Days Grace, so if you don't think they're alternative, then so be it. These bands all had previous chart success on Alternative.
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Post by ben777 on Aug 30, 2015 22:10:54 GMT -5
I'd really have to disagree that Take Out The Gunman is post-grunge like Tool/Deftones - IMO it belongs in the same genre as 70s metal They're just as "alternative" as Breaking Benjamin or Adam Gontier-Three Days Grace, so if you don't think they're alternative, then so be it. These bands all had previous chart success on Alternative. I'm not trying to put them down or anything - just that the whole Alt movement everytime I look it up was all about lyrics that specifically weren't like 70s/80s metal, and I really don't think Take Out The Gunman was written with the intention of having meaningful lyrics - to me, it's completely different than Breaking Benjamin or Three Days Grace singing about failed relationships etc.
Also, the thread was talking about bands played on Alt radio we thought weren't Alt (that's why I brought it up - cause they were played on Alt radio)
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Green Baron
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Post by Green Baron on Aug 30, 2015 22:53:13 GMT -5
They're just as "alternative" as Breaking Benjamin or Adam Gontier-Three Days Grace, so if you don't think they're alternative, then so be it. These bands all had previous chart success on Alternative. I'm not trying to put them down or anything - just that the whole Alt movement everytime I look it up was all about lyrics that specifically weren't like 70s/80s metal, and I really don't think Take Out The Gunman was written with the intention of having meaningful lyrics - to me, it's completely different than Breaking Benjamin or Three Days Grace singing about failed relationships etc.
Also, the thread was talking about bands played on Alt radio we thought weren't Alt (that's why I brought it up - cause they were played on Alt radio)
I mean, "Take Out the Gunman" was specifically written about gun control and the mentally insane - I don't want to do a full-on analysis like whoever the hell spent hours explaining the lyrical intricacies of "New Americana", for god's sake, but I wouldn't at all call it meaningless, even if you disagree with the band's stance The chorus about "point[ing] the gun at the eyes or at the knees, had to shoot, had to fight, gonna take out the gunman" is not meant to be interpreted literally - "taking out the gunman" essentially means making sure the disturbed do not have access to lethal weapons. They're not talking about actually killing a gunman - while the "gunman" is a person armed with a gun, it specifically targets the lunatics in the world who kill for pleasure, and thus "taking them out" is to essentially take the gun out of his hands. The second verse reemphasizes the point in the chorus - "Eyes huge, so little left if something. Cracks and clues. He's crazy as a straw. Why denied - Does no one care or nothing? How, you ask, I ever last so long?". The gunman has little left in his life. He's fucked up in the head. 'Crazy as a straw'. Why is no one stopping him, do they simply not give a shit? And under these conditions, how did the gunman not kill me yet? tl;dr - song is about gun control and has an actual meaning to it
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Aug 31, 2015 2:20:39 GMT -5
I still think Alt dropped the hard rock bands , like Hinder, Nickelback, Shinedown, Creed etc.. When they crossed over to HOT AC or CHR Pop tart land and landed top 10 or #1 hits. I can't prove it, but I noticed that soon there after they were dropped from Alt radio playlists. Just look at Green Day. "American Idiot"; arguably there best album. Depending on your perspective; was the defining point were they started to be called a pop band. For me its easy as black n day. When Rock/Alt bands cross over to HOT AC or CHR top 40; they lose thier original genre credibility with the fans. Don't ask me why, but it happens every time.
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Post by Daryl the Beryl on Aug 31, 2015 6:01:59 GMT -5
Pretty good and creative advertisement from AllAccess, for the song's promotion on Pop.
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Post by ben777 on Aug 31, 2015 10:29:50 GMT -5
^Yeah, and when you log into AllAccess, that ad comes up and blocks the entire screen lol - I wonder how much they paid for that
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Post by Doc Indie Party Rock on Sept 1, 2015 0:56:54 GMT -5
Pretty good and creative advertisement from AllAccess, for the song's promotion on Pop. That's where they shoulda gone to from the begining and just left the Alt chart alone
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 5:16:52 GMT -5
In its 20th week on the Hot 100, this goes up a spot to #36 this week.
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