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Post by Love Plastic Love on Sept 8, 2015 12:18:31 GMT -5
Male artists definitely bash each other and bitch about each other too. For some reason, it isn't as publicized. I am not sure why. Is the dynamic just different? Is it seen differently when a male criticizes another male compared to females fighting with each other? Is someone dissing Taylor "bitchy and catty" while Ed dissing a male artist "just criticism or his opinion"? Are females just bigger names right now so get more attention that way? I mean, just look up Ed Sheeran disses...and you immediately get a lot of results of him dissing other people (male and female) and male artists dissing him back. Yet...no one cares.
It is just always weird to me when people try to imply men don't bash and diss each other as much as women because, god, look at Kanye, almost every rock star, almost every rap star, Calvin Harris and his group, even people like One Direction have been in little feuds-they all do it, but we only seem to care when it is a woman doing it and I am not sure what to make of that.
I definitely think all these women who preach about feminism and then constantly fight or tear down other women need to take a seat or grow up. But, I also think there is genuinely something different about how we view men or how media views men who go after each other that isn't the fault of the women who are doing the same thing. Do we just have more fun watching women fight compared to men fighting?
I am sorry this is becoming long, but I don't want to double post. On the subject of Pink, it is a bit rich coming from her since she arguably floated a career off fun pop songs and performances that were entertaining and not "inspiring." A lot of her earlier hits were the fun songs and not the meaningful ones and she was a part of Lady M lol. However, I do think that she is getting older and trying to make more meaningful music so I am hoping she is self-aware that music doesn't always have to be deep and that she herself benefited from making fun semi-trashy pop music for a long time. I do agree that the music world in general seems pretty shallow lately. Like, remember when we semi-regularly had songs that were political or about "deeper" subjects existing alongside the fun sexy poppier songs? It blows my mind that that used to happen all the time and now it is a miracle if we get something on the level of Fight Song in the top 10 (which, radio will ONLY let go top 10 even though it is absolutely murdering in sales for months). But, it is all a cycle and even if radio wants to battle against playing songs that aren't fun and/or sexy they still exist. You can't tell me that Elastic Heart/Chandelier didn't make more of an impact than some of the songs that did better in airplay the last year or two despite the fact that radio seemed to actively battle against playing both songs that had great sales, callout, and streaming. Consumers will find a way to support what they like.
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Chelsea Press 2
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Post by Chelsea Press 2 on Sept 8, 2015 12:58:27 GMT -5
Male artists definitely bash each other and bitch about each other too. For some reason, it isn't as publicized. I am not sure why. Is the dynamic just different? Is it seen differently when a male criticizes another male compared to females fighting with each other? Is someone dissing Taylor "bitchy and catty" while Ed dissing a male artist "just criticism or his opinion"? Are females just bigger names right now so get more attention that way? I mean, just look up Ed Sheeran disses...and you immediately get a lot of results of him dissing other people (male and female) and male artists dissing him back. Yet...no one cares. It is just always weird to me when people try to imply men don't bash and diss each other as much as women because, god, look at Kanye, almost every rock star, almost every rap star, Calvin Harris and his group, even people like One Direction have been in little feuds-they all do it, but we only seem to care when it is a woman doing it and I am not sure what to make of that. I definitely think all these women who preach about feminism and then constantly fight or tear down other women need to take a seat or grow up. But, I also think there is genuinely something different about how we view men or how media views men who go after each other that isn't the fault of the women who are doing the same thing. Do we just have more fun watching women fight compared to men fighting? It's kind of like how most straight men will get all excited when two (or more) women have a full on physical fight in the hopes that maybe they will somehow kiss in the midst of all the clawing and hair pulling or that a breast might pop out. Or that someone might throw chocolate pudding on them and they would get all messy and gooey. It feels like society expects women to be fighting over some other powerful female and that they have to be pitted against one another, but it's so unnecessary. It gets more clicks and sells more newspapers if the story is about two hot, popular Alpha Queens. I think the male popstar feuds do exist, but they don't seem to play out the in the same manner. Or they just haven't reached that point yet because most don't have time for that. There were a handful of male vs. male feuds last year but they weren't quite as media worthy as the female ones. I think the feud between Prince and Justin Timberlake about 9 years ago was so funny. After Justin released "Sexyback" in 2006, Prince quipped, "...Sexy never left!" but then a few months later, Justin did a song with Nelly Furtado and Timbaland which was basically a diss track and Justin sang "Now if sexy never left, then why is everybody on my s**t?". Perhaps that didn't get as much media attention as this was during the end of MySpace and before Twitter and Instagram were a thing. It seems like a lot of the male vs. male feuds play out in song form. It feels like there are more feuds in the Rap and Rock worlds than in other genres. Maybe that's just the way it is right now. I think that if the male feuds were more interesting and outrageous, we'd be talking about them too.
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Post by Linnethia Monique on Sept 8, 2015 13:14:41 GMT -5
Male artists definitely bash each other and bitch about each other too. For some reason, it isn't as publicized. I am not sure why. Is the dynamic just different? Is it seen differently when a male criticizes another male compared to females fighting with each other? Is someone dissing Taylor "bitchy and catty" while Ed dissing a male artist "just criticism or his opinion"? Are females just bigger names right now so get more attention that way? I mean, just look up Ed Sheeran disses...and you immediately get a lot of results of him dissing other people (male and female) and male artists dissing him back. Yet...no one cares. It is just always weird to me when people try to imply men don't bash and diss each other as much as women because, god, look at Kanye, almost every rock star, almost every rap star, Calvin Harris and his group, even people like One Direction have been in little feuds-they all do it, but we only seem to care when it is a woman doing it and I am not sure what to make of that. I definitely think all these women who preach about feminism and then constantly fight or tear down other women need to take a seat or grow up. But, I also think there is genuinely something different about how we view men or how media views men who go after each other that isn't the fault of the women who are doing the same thing. Do we just have more fun watching women fight compared to men fighting? It's kind of like how most straight men will get all excited when two (or more) women have a full on physical fight in the hopes that maybe they will somehow kiss in the midst of all the clawing and hair pulling or that a breast might pop out. Or that someone might throw chocolate pudding on them and they would get all messy and gooey. Seriously where do you keep drawing your consensus from?!
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Chelsea Press 2
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Post by Chelsea Press 2 on Sept 8, 2015 13:44:20 GMT -5
It's kind of like how most straight men will get all excited when two (or more) women have a full on physical fight in the hopes that maybe they will somehow kiss in the midst of all the clawing and hair pulling or that a breast might pop out. Or that someone might throw chocolate pudding on them and they would get all messy and gooey. Seriously where do you keep drawing your consensus from?! There was a documentary on catfights and the science and psychology of them. And then there was this article. And until I realized I was bi, I hung out with a lot of presumably straight guys and whenever two girls would fight, it would trigger this, "OH FU CK YEAH! TWO GIRLS FIGHTING! SOMEBODY GET THE FU CKING JELLO PUDDING!" response. I do remember there being excitement when two guys would fight, but it would be more like what you see in the anticipation of the big Rocky fight. I remember that I got into it with this one jock who was a year ahead of me and he wanted to fight me because he was a prick. And I agreed to fight but there was no chance in hell of me actually doing it because he was super buff and his biceps were the size of small footballs and he would have beat the shit out of me. Anyway, all anyone could talk about that day was about the "fight of the century" happening at the flagpole in front of the school at 3 o'clock (how cliche). So when school ended, I got my stuff and I went home. No fight took place. It was so anticlimactic for those who wanted to see two guys rolling around on the floor, beating the shit out of each other. The next day, the other kids were like, "why didn't you fight him?" And I was like, "did you really think I would knowing I would lose?" This guy really wanted to fight me bad. About 6 months ago, I ran into him and his husband at the store. He has totally mellowed out since then. Looking back on that, I realized that many of those "straight" guys were gagging more for these girls fighting than us queening out when Madonna made that "reductive" comment 3 years ago. But then everything I learned about human nature and the world, I learned from Seinfeld
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Post by surfy on Sept 8, 2015 15:19:56 GMT -5
Everyone was talking about Drake and Meek not too long ago, does that count?
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Post by BDGeek on Sept 10, 2015 1:31:30 GMT -5
It's because in the pursuit of fame. These women talk out from both of their asses cheeks or in Taylor's case between both of her faces. One one hand they want to do what the suits tell them that a fight with another woman sells and on the other hand they want to break free from that stereotype. It takes a woman of character to do that and none of the girls at the top of the charts today has any character, class or backbone. None of them are feminists obviously, they are capitalistic pigs that feed on the soul of the young and dumb. Now that would be okay if they had the talent to match their capitalistic ways. Then there would be a good reason for them to be so rich and famous.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 11:20:25 GMT -5
Aw, why do all the fun feminist discussions happen when I'm not looking? IMO, it's just that true feminism (and really, any genuine advocacy for a social issue) is too complex and nuanced to be adequately boxed up and packaged for quick public consumption. Pop stars, however, live or die based on how easily they can be boxed up and packaged for public consumption. Aligning yourself with a big social cause is theoretically great for branding, but then actually taking on that social cause is a whole other beast that can sink you if you screw it up. Beyonce's the only one who has got it...well not even right really, because I honestly have no idea if she has it right. She's just really good at avoiding the things that indicate she's got it wrong. She's mainly accomplished this by being successful without actually having to take much of a stance on anything beyond ban bossy, who run the world, and the right to be sexual even after getting married and having a kid. Self-empowerment is a great general message that doesn't rely on being buddy buddy with every other person who has the same genitalia you do, nor does it require you to openly compete with anyone (thus avoiding the idea the perception of a catfight). And that avoiding the catfight thing - sadly, that is the most important step of all. Because we are still in a very sexist world and just being two women who are at odds with each other almost guarantees that your fight won't be taken seriously and will be brushed off as two bitches being petty. Like: I think that if the male feuds were more interesting and outrageous, we'd be talking about them too. But you see the problem with this, don't you? They're 'boring' because we've already concluded (consciously or subconsciously) that men don't catfight. Catfights are inherently interesting in part because we don't take the participants in them seriously enough to care who gets hurt, who wins or loses. We take men seriously and part of being taken seriously is not being treated as fodder for the public's mindless entertainment. JT coming for Britney with Cry Me a River was him stating his truth; same with Ed Sheeran and Don't. But Taylor coming for Katy was trivial, petty/shady, and attention seeking...and Taylor was actually the one with a beef based mostly over a perceived business wrong (notably downplayed as "minor" when people learned that it concerned dancers for Taylor's tour). JT and Ed's songs were total butthurt over a relationship gone south. It's certainly their right to vent about it and profit in the process, but then we bounce back to people constantly criticizing any female singer who sings more than 2.5 songs about a bad breakup, and that is something men rarely if ever get thrown at them. You do have Drake/Meek Mill situations but hip-hop is different from pop in that it has historically thrived off beef. Battle rap is pretty much based off two people going head to head with each other and the main reason Meek got dragged so badly is because he didn't do the 'manly' thing and step up to the mic when Drake came for him. Even then, I definitely think there are differences in how people regard a male rapper v. male rapper and female rapper v. female rapper. For all the thinkpieces spawned from the following three battles, did anyone take Nicki v. Kim as seriously? Nicki v. Iggy? Iggy v. Azealia?
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Post by when the pawn... on Sept 10, 2015 11:39:48 GMT -5
Late thoughts on the Pink situation
1. Why does she say she was disgusted and that the VMAs were trash when she cited more than half of this years as performers as highlights? I know she wasn't trying to start any s*** (considering this was on her private personal account) but it may as well have said "The VMAs were great but Demi Levato, Nicki Minaj and Twenty-One Pilots are trash."
2. Pink's last performance on the VMAs was "Blow Me (One Last Kiss)" - whose live did that song save? I like Pink (at least more than I used to) but she has always come off so pretentious.
3. This is the VMAs. There have been many great performances by credible legendary artists over the years (including the last 5-7 years) but it has ALWAYS been known for controversy and stunt. Kanye/Taylor, The Kiss, Howard Stern farting, Martha Stewart standing next to Busta Rhymes, The RATM member climbing the scaffolding, Courtney Love v. Madonna, and I could go on. Again, whose life did those events save?
4. I understand Demi feeling attacked (see point #1) and actually mostly agreed with her but her reaction was unnecessary - partly because, again, Pink did not mean for those comments to be public and partly because it's just not that important. I just said that I agreed with her but for some reason, it just came off bratty.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Sept 10, 2015 13:15:43 GMT -5
OMG that Madonna vs. Courtney thing was amazing part of pop culture history.. thanks for reminding me.
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Chelsea Press 2
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Post by Chelsea Press 2 on Sept 10, 2015 16:30:32 GMT -5
OMG that Madonna vs. Courtney thing was amazing part of pop culture history.. thanks for reminding me. This week actually marks 20 years since that thing happened.
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Post by DJ General on Nov 1, 2015 11:57:38 GMT -5
I just watched a new interview with Ed on FUSE, and he confirmed that he was not asked to appear or perform at the VMAs this year despite being bigger than artists who did appear because he was told he is "just a musician, and not a celebrity"
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Post by surfy on Nov 1, 2015 13:14:42 GMT -5
That's alright, he doesn't need the VMAs... just wait for the GRAMMYs.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Nov 1, 2015 16:04:31 GMT -5
But he DID take the EMA gig as a host so wonder why MTV gave him that then...
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Post by surfy on Nov 1, 2015 18:09:21 GMT -5
But he DID take the EMA gig as a host so wonder why MTV gave him that then... Maybe they thought he wasn't a celebrity in America, but since he's huge in the Europe it would be a good idea? I honestly don't know why they did that.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Nov 2, 2015 2:01:27 GMT -5
Could be.. Makes me think that maybe he was considered as a presenter for the VMAs and that he's "not celebrity enough" for that. Because why on earth would Tori Kelly get a performance slot over Ed Sheeran?
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Post by Future Captain on Nov 2, 2015 11:07:47 GMT -5
I thought it's already established that the last thing that MTV has understanding of or anything to do with is music industry?
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