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Post by Skibidi Bop Bop on Sept 14, 2021 21:47:53 GMT -5
If billboard wont act, the GOAT record and milestone will be ruined. Yes, I understand that record is meant to be broken but not this nonsense album bomb which is equivalent to an album the you purchase on 90's and so on and you keep on listening nonstop which is not fair to artist who works hard before just to get the record. Artist now just keep on releasing music even non album track but earn nonsense record without effort. This is getting ridiculous.🤣. Billboard hot 100 '' hits'' doesnt sounds the same anymore.
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leonagwen
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Post by leonagwen on Sept 14, 2021 21:50:09 GMT -5
I bet you that more than 50 percent of Usa people know Good 4 U, Levitating or Kiss Me More, but less than 1 percent know any songs from Drake's new album. I know The Billboard charts goes by sales and streams but is it really accurate? The whole top 10 has songs that most people have never heard of but the songs that most people know aren't in the top 10 this week. Who in your opinion is the average casual music fan? Better question - what age group drives popular music? Casual music fan for Pop music probably in the age range of 16 to 40. I'm an exception, I'm 59 lol. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Sept 14, 2021 21:52:48 GMT -5
Who in your opinion is the average casual music fan? Better question - what age group drives popular music? Casual music fan for Pop music probably in the age range of 16 to 40. I'm an exception, I'm 59 lol. And who drives popular music? - I don't, you don't -- the answer has been the same since the beginning of rock n roll ---- Teenagers They are the dominant factor in why Drake is #1 - Can they name a Drake song? (My guess is yes since they are the once that streamed it - predominantly) |
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leonagwen
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Post by leonagwen on Sept 14, 2021 21:56:33 GMT -5
Casual music fan for Pop music probably in the age range of 16 to 40. I'm an exception, I'm 59 lol. And who drives popular music - I don't, you don't -- the answer has been the same since the beginning of rock n roll ---- Teenagers They are the dominant factor in why Drake is #1 - Can they name a Drake song? (My guess is yes since they are the once that streamed it - predominantly) Like I said in a previous post, more people know Levitating, Good 4 U and Kiss Me More than they know any new Drake song, and why is that? |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Sept 14, 2021 22:02:32 GMT -5
And who drives popular music - I don't, you don't -- the answer has been the same since the beginning of rock n roll ---- Teenagers They are the dominant factor in why Drake is #1 - Can they name a Drake song? (My guess is yes since they are the once that streamed it - predominantly) Like I said in a previous post, more people know Levitating, Good 4 U and Kiss Me More than they know any new Drake song, and why is that? Because the drake album is a week old and those songs are not The second most streamed album in a week in the streaming era probably streamed by a lot of the same people who made those songs popular. Unless they were mindless drones when they were listening I will bet they can name a song or two. But fact is the new Drake songs were listened to more this week than any of those other songs you mentioned |
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Post by leonagwen on Sept 14, 2021 22:06:08 GMT -5
Like I said in a previous post, more people know Levitating, Good 4 U and Kiss Me More than they know any new Drake song, and why is that? Because the drake album is a week old and those songs are not The second most streamed album in a week in the streaming era probably streamed by a lot of the same people who made those songs popular. Unless they were mindless drones when they were listening I will bet they can name a song or two. But fact is the new Drake songs were listened to more this week than any of those other songs you mentioned But they are not the most well known songs, which is the point I'm trying to make. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Sept 14, 2021 22:09:59 GMT -5
lots of songs are more well known than any of those. For example “Star Spangled Banner”.more well known by the casual USA music listener or sports fan for that matter
“Well known” is not what is being measured.
Popularity for the week is.
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leonagwen
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Post by leonagwen on Sept 14, 2021 22:13:18 GMT -5
lots of songs are more well known than any of those. For example “Star Spangled Banner”.more well known by the casual USA music listener or sports fan for that matter “Well known” is not what is being measured. Popularity for the week is. Popular songs that most people have never heard of. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Sept 14, 2021 22:15:17 GMT -5
And the single chart measures the most consumed and popular songs within a week and guess what, the most consumed and popular singles this week all came from Certified Lover Boy. The same was the same in Canada and Australia, the only reason it isn't the same in the UK is because they have a stupid rule of 3 songs per artist. If it weren't for that, there'd be Drake all over the UK Charts as well. Stop being a clown and just allow songs that aren't singles to chart. It's 2021 not 1981 I do understand your point, but on the other hand this rule hurts acts who are great sellers. Many people streamed Drake's songs intead of buying the album and he gets rewarded on both the Top 200 and the Hot 100. Now look at Taylor Swift and an album like Folklore, 600k people chose to buy the album upon release instead of streaming the songs millions of times for free. And how does the Hot 100 reflect that? It doesn't. This is one point that I think weakens the Hot 100 (well, one of many) but I don’t think streaming-heavy artists should take the hit. Billboard should, however, figure out a way to incorporate sales of albums under assumption that people who buy them are going to listen to them - the same way they assume people who buy singles will listen to them. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Sept 14, 2021 22:15:59 GMT -5
lots of songs are more well known than any of those. For example “Star Spangled Banner”.more well known by the casual USA music listener or sports fan for that matter “Well known” is not what is being measured. Popularity for the week is. Popular songs that most people have never heard of. If we give all age groups ever the same weight I agree. Retirees and on the other end of the spectrum four year olds. Probably not Drake fans But “most people “ do not dictate what popular music is. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Sept 14, 2021 22:16:29 GMT -5
lots of songs are more well known than any of those. For example “Star Spangled Banner”.more well known by the casual USA music listener or sports fan for that matter “Well known” is not what is being measured. Popularity for the week is. Popular songs that most people have never heard of. If we give all age groups ever the same weight I agree. Retirees and on the other end of the spectrum four year olds. Probably not Drake fans But “most people “ do not dictate what popular music is. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Sept 14, 2021 22:18:35 GMT -5
And who drives popular music - I don't, you don't -- the answer has been the same since the beginning of rock n roll ---- Teenagers They are the dominant factor in why Drake is #1 - Can they name a Drake song? (My guess is yes since they are the once that streamed it - predominantly) Like I said in a previous post, more people know Levitating, Good 4 U and Kiss Me More than they know any new Drake song, and why is that? Because those songs have been out for months and have been hits on radio and elsewhere. This isn’t proving the point you think it is. I also bet more people knew I Want It That Way, All Star and Genie In A Bottle back in 1999 than people today know Levitating, Good 4 U and Kiss Me More. The proportion of the population that listens/hears hit music today is less than that of past decades. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Sept 14, 2021 22:19:27 GMT -5
lots of songs are more well known than any of those. For example “Star Spangled Banner”.more well known by the casual USA music listener or sports fan for that matter “Well known” is not what is being measured. Popularity for the week is. Popular songs that most people have never heard of. I don’t think you understand how charts work.. 🤔 |
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leonagwen
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Post by leonagwen on Sept 14, 2021 22:26:36 GMT -5
Popular songs that most people have never heard of. I don’t think you understand how charts work.. 🤔 I do understand. |
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85la
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Post by 85la on Sept 14, 2021 22:38:55 GMT -5
It is just these huge and numerous debuts on the SINGLES chart that are clearly almost entirely due to the debut-week consumption of an album that I have a problem with. It hasn't been a singles chart since 1998. It's a SONGS chart. Ok, a Songs chart then, but my reasoning still holds. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Sept 14, 2021 22:48:20 GMT -5
I don’t think you understand how charts work.. 🤔 I do understand. Oh, ok. |
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85la
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Post by 85la on Sept 14, 2021 22:50:17 GMT -5
Furthermore, most of the examples mentioned were not due to album bombs, so I personally would be ok with them charting. It is just these huge and numerous debuts on the SINGLES chart that are clearly almost entirely due to the debut-week consumption of an album that I have a problem with. To advocate for that to be moderated somehow is definitely legitimate, as the Hot 100 is already not an entirely "accurate" straight-line ranking of the most consumed songs anyway, as demonstrated by the recurrent rules, which are ironically in place to keep the biggest songs and artists from dominating for too long, so what would be wrong with instituting such rules for album bombs as well? I can think of no better reason, when you have ONE artist occupying nearly the top quarter of the chart! And of course it doesn't have to be all or nothing, some of the songs and their points from album bombs can be counted in some way, the details of which could be ironed out and executed in a way that is fair and balanced to all songs and artists with popular songs currently in rotation. It’s 2021. No one is restricted to just the singles anymore. You can’t have a chart that takes into account streaming and YouTube but then limit your tallying to just promoted radio singles. You might as well not include streaming if you’re gone do that. Every single music chart in the world no longer limits their charts to “singles”. Not the Canadian Charts, not the UK, not ARIA, not New Zealand. Why then should the Hot 100? As I said in my response to the previous person who quoted me, ok, we can call it a "Songs" chart, not going to get caught up in semantics. And I myself did not say to limit the Hot 100 to only official radio-promoted songs, that was someone else further down the line of who I quoted. Again, it is songs charting almost exclusively from the first one or two weeks of album bombs that I have the most problem with. And unlike you, this is coming from someone who actually enjoyed most of CLB overall. |
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Post by 85la on Sept 14, 2021 23:09:42 GMT -5
Furthermore, most of the examples mentioned were not due to album bombs, so I personally would be ok with them charting. It is just these huge and numerous debuts on the SINGLES chart that are clearly almost entirely due to the debut-week consumption of an album that I have a problem with. To advocate for that to be moderated somehow is definitely legitimate, as the Hot 100 is already not an entirely "accurate" straight-line ranking of the most consumed songs anyway, as demonstrated by the recurrent rules, which are ironically in place to keep the biggest songs and artists from dominating for too long, so what would be wrong with instituting such rules for album bombs as well? I can think of no better reason, when you have ONE artist occupying nearly the top quarter of the chart! And of course it doesn't have to be all or nothing, some of the songs and their points from album bombs can be counted in some way, the details of which could be ironed out and executed in a way that is fair and balanced to all songs and artists with popular songs currently in rotation. Okay but how do we go about not allowing songs that people are actually listening to from charting on the basis that…they’re not singles? There are too many of them? What? Agree or not, recurrent rules do serve a purpose (personally, I think recurrent rules no longer work to benefit the chart but that’s a different issue). The fact of the matter is, (and it can’t really be disputed), Drake songs were listened to the most this past week. There’s no way around that barring some BTS chart manipulation situation. That’s literally all there is to it. Maybe if general radio and sales were at 90s level or 2000s level numbers, there wouldn’t be a Drake domination (or whatever album bomb of the week is going on), but the biggest hits of the time are no longer that big. "not allowing songs that people are actually listening to from charting" - this is not what I said, I said limit their impact somehow, not preventing all of them from charting entirely, whether it be through capping chart points at a certain level, maximum # of songs per artist per certain region of the chart (i.e. the top ten), etc.
"there are too many of them" - quite simply yes. to limit any one artist from completely dominating the chart.
"Drake songs were listened to the most this past week" - ok, but as I keep mentioning, the Hot 100 chart is already not a straight-line ranking of the most-consumed songs by raw points each week because recurrent rules continually remove certain songs, so subjective criteria are already thrown in as to limit what the chart reflects is "popular" or "the most listened to." This is something you guys have still not addressed: why are the recurrent rules ok, but limiting album bombs isn't? They would both work to prevent certain songs and certain artists from dominating too much or for too long - it's the same concept.
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rimetm
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Post by rimetm on Sept 14, 2021 23:18:05 GMT -5
This is something you guys have still not addressed: why are the recurrent rules ok, but limiting album bombs isn't? They would both work to prevent certain songs and certain artists from dominating too much or for too long - it's the same concept. Because recurrency is to make sure old songs don't draw attention away from fresh ones while album bombs are displaying what are the hottest of the freshest songs. You may try to simplify it, but one matches the goal of the chart and the other doesn't. An artist "dominating too much" is not a concern for the Billboard staff by all indications. |
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dremolus - solarpunk
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Sept 14, 2021 23:23:24 GMT -5
And the single chart measures the most consumed and popular songs within a week and guess what, the most consumed and popular singles this week all came from Certified Lover Boy. The same was the same in Canada and Australia, the only reason it isn't the same in the UK is because they have a stupid rule of 3 songs per artist. If it weren't for that, there'd be Drake all over the UK Charts as well. Stop being a clown and just allow songs that aren't singles to chart. It's 2021 not 1981 I do understand your point, but on the other hand this rule hurts acts who are great sellers. Many people streamed Drake's songs intead of buying the album and he gets rewarded on both the Top 200 and the Hot 100. Now look at Taylor Swift and an album like Folklore, 600k people chose to buy the album upon release instead of streaming the songs millions of times for free. And how does the Hot 100 reflect that? It doesn't. 1. folklore was still streamed a ton, breaking records and Taylor got three debuts in the Top 10. 2. The buying of the album wasn't of the individual songs. We're talking about the songs chart, not the album charts. 3. No one really buys songs anymore. Outside of K-Pop stans and MAGA chuds, radio and streaming are the predominantly platforms of consumption, of course they're weighed more |
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Post by Skibidi Bop Bop on Sept 14, 2021 23:23:57 GMT -5
Okay but how do we go about not allowing songs that people are actually listening to from charting on the basis that…they’re not singles? There are too many of them? What? Agree or not, recurrent rules do serve a purpose (personally, I think recurrent rules no longer work to benefit the chart but that’s a different issue). The fact of the matter is, (and it can’t really be disputed), Drake songs were listened to the most this past week. There’s no way around that barring some BTS chart manipulation situation. That’s literally all there is to it. Maybe if general radio and sales were at 90s level or 2000s level numbers, there wouldn’t be a Drake domination (or whatever album bomb of the week is going on), but the biggest hits of the time are no longer that big. "not allowing songs that people are actually listening to from charting" - this is not what I said, I said limit their impact somehow, not preventing all of them from charting entirely, whether it be through capping chart points at a certain level, maximum # of songs per artist per certain region of the chart (i.e. the top ten), etc.
"there are too many of them" - quite simply yes. to limit any one artist from completely dominating the chart.
"Drake songs were listened to the most this past week" - ok, but as I keep mentioning, the Hot 100 chart is already not a straight-line ranking of the most-consumed songs by raw points each week because recurrent rules continually remove certain songs, so subjective criteria are already thrown in as to limit what the chart reflects is "popular" or "the most listened to." This is something you guys have still not addressed: why are the recurrent rules ok, but limiting album bombs isn't? They would both work to prevent certain songs and certain artists from dominating too much or for too long - it's the same concept.
Exactly. The same as well for the song that Dominates in sales but lack in streaming and airplay. To be fair.This rule/policy would be fine. They should meet some criteria to limit the impact. |
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Sept 14, 2021 23:25:50 GMT -5
And who drives popular music - I don't, you don't -- the answer has been the same since the beginning of rock n roll ---- Teenagers They are the dominant factor in why Drake is #1 - Can they name a Drake song? (My guess is yes since they are the once that streamed it - predominantly) Like I said in a previous post, more people know Levitating, Good 4 U and Kiss Me More than they know any new Drake song, and why is that? As I keep saying: IT. DOESNT. MATTERThis is a chart about measuring popularity and general consumption WITHIN A SINGLE TRACKING WEEK. It does not matter if these songs will be remembered tomorrow or a month from now. They were still the most consumed songs this week. There's no way to measure what songs will stick with the general public, so stop whining about how "these songs won't be remembered!1!1!". That's never been how charts are structured. |
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Post by leonagwen on Sept 14, 2021 23:36:14 GMT -5
Like I said in a previous post, more people know Levitating, Good 4 U and Kiss Me More than they know any new Drake song, and why is that? As I keep saying: IT. DOESNT. MATTERThis is a chart about measuring popularity and general consumption WITHIN A SINGLE TRACKING WEEK. It does not matter if these songs will be remembered tomorrow or a month from now. They were still the most consumed songs this week. There's no way to measure what songs will stick with the general public, so stop whining about how "these songs won't be remembered!1!1!". That's never been how charts are structured. For your info I've been following the charts since the early 1970's. I just don't like the way the charts are today in 2021. Just ridiculous that an album bomb takes the whole top 10 and most people never heard of or will ever hear any of the songs on Drake's new album. |
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Sept 14, 2021 23:39:39 GMT -5
As I keep saying: IT. DOESNT. MATTERThis is a chart about measuring popularity and general consumption WITHIN A SINGLE TRACKING WEEK. It does not matter if these songs will be remembered tomorrow or a month from now. They were still the most consumed songs this week. There's no way to measure what songs will stick with the general public, so stop whining about how "these songs won't be remembered!1!1!". That's never been how charts are structured. For your info I've been following the charts since the early 1970's. I just don't like the way the charts are today in 2021. Just ridiculous that an album bomb takes the whole top 10 and most people never heard of or will ever hear any of the songs on Drake's new album. Well than that's your problem, not Billboard. Every other chart around the world allows for album bombs - with the exception of the UK Charts because they have a stupid rule of only allowing 3 songs per lead artist. Album bombs are not going to go away anytime soon because of streaming. Deal with it |
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Post by thegreatdivine on Sept 15, 2021 0:01:52 GMT -5
Billboard has clarified several times that the Hot 100 chart is made to reflect the most consumed songs every week. The songs that chart on the Hot 100 due to album bombs do so because people stream individual songs from those albums enough for that to happen. Before streaming was a thing, Taylor Swift had album bombs with some of her older albums because in addition to her fans buying the actual albums, they also bought each individual song off them on iTunes for them to have enough points to chart.
This is 2021. Sales are pretty much dead and are only hanging on by a thread thanks to a resurgence in vinyl sales over the last couple of years. The biggest songs in the U.S. aren't even managing 25K pure sales weekly so anyone using the "albums that manage massive pure sales in the first week should also have that count on the Hot 100 somehow" argument, well, if fans can buy enough digital copies of each song on the album, Billboard will count the points and they'll chart based off that but fans won't do that. They'll settle on buying the album itself instead and how many artists can even manage sizeable pure sale figures in their first week of release? Even Taylor Swift who still does better than most people in that arena, has to have vinyl orders up for several months before the release of an album, combined with multiple album covers to get fans to drive those pure sale numbers up and even with all of that, she'll be lucky to pull 300-400K pure sales first week with any album moving forward. Adele's first-week pure sales figures (whenever she decides to release her next album) will also mark a massive decrease from her last album, which will be a reflection of just how much pure sales have lost their power over the last 6-7 years.
It may feel "unfair" to long-time chart watchers who believe streaming has somehow ruined everything but it's the present and the future of music consumption and has been accounted for on Billboard's charts for over 6 years now. Get used to it because it's not going anywhere. Streaming accounts for 85% of all music consumption in the U.S. and more than ever before in any music era, it offers a way to measure the actual consumption of each song, whether they're a single or part of an album so why shouldn't those streams count towards the Hot 100?
Many of you are trying to make arguments that make 0 sense. Billboard's charts track consumption/popularity on a weekly basis. They don't care if a song gets 100M streams this week and drops to 2M streams the following week. As long as they determine that the 100M streams were legit, it'll count for that particular week and fall off the next week. This is what happens with album bombs. The songs that remain will be the songs that reflect what people are willing to keep listening to long-term, but it doesn't mean that the other songs that were consumed massively in the first week of release shouldn't have counted towards that first week.
We make such a big deal about 1-week #1/top 10 hits in the streaming era but that has ALWAYS been a thing. There are songs from 20/30/40/50 years ago that only spent a week at #1/in the top 10 and fell off right after and Billboard still accounted for them.
You may not like how streaming works but it's still managing to grow in the U.S. year after year and still has lots of room to grow globally. Most people consume their music through streaming now and the official song charts for most countries account for streaming. Y'all complain so much about streaming but it's actually the best way to track and measure the songs that people are organically gravitating towards, old or new, which is something I don't think we've ever had in any music era.
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Post by nathanalbright on Sept 15, 2021 1:19:16 GMT -5
As much as I am indifferent to Drake and puzzled by his massive popularity, I have to agree with divine here. I wish we would have had better ways of calculating genuine music consumption in previous decades--it was not until the 1990's that the charts counted actual sales rather than what was reported from stores and allowed airplay only songs to chart that had not been released officially for sale as singles. While I do think that it would be good to count the plays of music that has been purchased as an adjunct to digital I don't think that technology is necessarily very far off and it would only increase the amount of data that shows how it is that people actually listen to music. And even if that leads to some chart feats and positions that are baffling to me, I think that having more data and more accurate and more complete data about how people consume music is only a good thing.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Sept 15, 2021 2:17:33 GMT -5
I think the 3 song cap the UK charts have is pretty good tbh. Big hits have the chance to chart but the charts are not flooded by album tracks whoever happens to be popular on any given week. Even with that rule, 6 songs from Olivia's album have charted for instance (she has 4 top ten hits now)
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dremolus - solarpunk
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Post by dremolus - solarpunk on Sept 15, 2021 2:23:51 GMT -5
I think the 3 song cap the UK charts have is pretty good tbh. Big hits have the chance to chart but the charts are not flooded by album tracks whoever happens to be popular on any given week. Even with that rule, 6 songs from Olivia's album have charted for instance (she has 4 top ten hits now) She has 4 Top 10 hits but not at the same time. Good 4 u went recurrent the week of SOUR's drop because it was the fourth biggest Olivia song. It's just a bit silly most of Olivia's album was the most consumed that week yet she was only limited to 3 |
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Sept 15, 2021 2:34:27 GMT -5
I don't think it matters when the song are hits? Drake will have a new entry this week (Way 2 Sexy around #10) which makes it a legitimate hit there. Again, it's not a flawless system, but gives more chances to different artists to chart well.
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Post by thegreatdivine on Sept 15, 2021 4:45:48 GMT -5
It's been days now and Drake hasn't acknowledged the success of CLB in any way. This man  |
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