SHOOTER
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Post by SHOOTER on May 12, 2007 23:02:24 GMT -5
I still love "So Excited".
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SAY IT RIGHT
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Post by SAY IT RIGHT on May 12, 2007 23:06:40 GMT -5
Yea, SAY IT, I have heard what's out today, but let's not lump Janet in with all that, because her history shows that she's BETTER than most of that. The problem too is age (unfortunately, which is an issue in the USA). That, coupled with Janet being near nekkid everytime you turned around, and other things, made it difficult for this last album to do much of anything, at radio or retail. Another big problem is JD- she should not work with him, period- he works well with others, but not with Janet (and the material supports that). It's rarely a good idea for couples to work together on projects. You'll get the rare gems like those of Fleetwood Mac (where the relationship problems helped inform the work), but that ain't the case with JJ/JD, obviously. "Call on Me" did very well at urban radio (accounting for the bulk of its No. 9 airplay peak, along with some rhythimc). But, "So Excited" didn't get anybody excited- in the USA or outside of it. Well u do know that So Excited and Enjoy were #1 hits in JAPAN! WOOOOO! But yes I agree that she is better than what is out today (and the young girls who try to immulate her), but I still believe that if Rihanna or Beyonce would have released that Same material from "20 YO", people would be raving it the best album of their short careers. I guess that goes back to my theory of Janets worst albums being better than others best, but I do understand your point. I think there were so many other things wrong, in terms of marketing and promotiong that were such a mess, it really didnt matter wat was on the album. As a fan when I went to buy the album, I could not even spot it in the store because of that horrible 4 album covers idea which totally screwed up her brand recognition. Branding is the first thing u learn in a basic marketing class, when people go to buy albums, u want it to be easily recognized. no1 should be confused when buyig your album. I do agree she needs to wear MORE CLOTHES and Jermaine never needs to comment on Janet or her album again and she definately does not need to work with him. Also, being that "Call on me" was such a big urban hit, I think the follow up should have been a mid tempo. Her biggest urban hits are her mid tempos and slow jams, so thats what she should have continued to release from this album. "So excited" wasnt even the strongest uptempo on the album.
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SAY IT RIGHT
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Post by SAY IT RIGHT on May 12, 2007 23:11:45 GMT -5
The promo was good from the beginning but JD thinking that a Nelly/ Janet Collabo would be the selling point of the album is what went wrong. Also hyping up So Excited by adding Khia was just a bad decision too. With Oprah she should have did Daybreak along with Nasty because it would've grasp that crowd instead of something so dirty as So Excited. She should've released something really upbeat like Show Me or Get It Out Me as the first single than tried something like With U or another upbeat like Do It To Me which would've been perfect. Than release classic Janet with Daybreak or Enjoy and than the tour should've proceeded. Janet just got lost in the mix after awhile. If she would've released her album in the summer it would've been perfect for her. Well at least we agree on this. I was so baffled when Janet got on Oprah and performed So Excited. i couldnt believe my eyes. That was not the audience to perform that type of song in front of. Something like "enjoy" or "daybreak" would have been more appropriate and would have made them want to purchase the album. Those middle aged housewives were not gonna run and buy "20 Yo" because of Janet singing "i'm hot, come on, i'll open my spot for u" I ALWAYS said the first single should have been "Show me" followed by "Do it 2 me" and then "Enjoy." I'm certain those singles would have gotten her to at least 1 mill.
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on May 13, 2007 8:46:17 GMT -5
Yeah you've made some great points Say It. The fan album covers was a bad idea as was the So Excited performance on Oprah.
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polly
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Post by polly on May 13, 2007 9:17:31 GMT -5
Janet's latest album was not her worst. She's just not in favor with the public. Which sucks. her album was good.
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Post by busyboy on May 13, 2007 10:22:02 GMT -5
^ I think the album was good too, but they forgot to put the singles on it when they released, instead they crammed it with interludes. "Call On Me" did moderately well, but they really needed at least one hot single after that and before putting out "With U", and "So Excited" was not.
So, poor promotion + Virgin unfolding = 640,200 copies sold.
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polly
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Post by polly on May 13, 2007 10:28:15 GMT -5
Yeah that blows.
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SAY IT RIGHT
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Post by SAY IT RIGHT on May 13, 2007 11:05:46 GMT -5
She did LESS promo for 20 YO than Damita JO, but had a bigger hit single with 20 Yo and ended up selling less than Damita Jo. Promo is sooooo important.
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Post by busyboy on May 13, 2007 11:11:29 GMT -5
^ Yeah, I see what you mean.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on May 13, 2007 11:39:36 GMT -5
Re promo- I think that some tend to point to that as an easy reason as to why a project fails. But when you think about it, in the past, it's not like Janet did HUGE amounts of promo for her albums, after the initial blast. The difference is that the songs clicked at radio (mainly pop I'm speaking of here), whereas with 20 Y.O., they didn't. After GTIG didn't ignite pop radio (but did urban), TA did better at pop than GTIG, and that helped keep the album afloat. Then, IGL didn't do as well at pop, but did very well at urban. And then Go Deep improved upon IGL's pop performance- so, it was a cycle that kept the album going. Also, video play probably was more prominent in those years than it is today.
With 20 Y.O., after "Call on Me," pop radio didn't wanna touch SE in any way, and rhythmic pretty much turned its ears to it (I think it didn't break the top 40 at the format?)
As discussed, there are several reasons why Janet's last coupel albums were commercial disappointments. Let's not pretend that the lackluster material wasn't one of them. People have different tastes, but, I am a longtime Janet luvah, and can listen to the best of her work for days- but I had absolutely no interest in getting 20 Y.O. And I'm sure others felt the same.
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on May 13, 2007 11:48:07 GMT -5
True Janet needed the material....whatever that means? I thought the album was just fine. Janet's prime audience has matured while she, in alot of aspects, has regressed. I was in the camp that that Janet should promote to Urban and hope that Janet's material became so popular at Urban that pop couldn't ignore it. That did not work. People, including the urban audience, want Janet to be the crossover star that she is. I probably would've released Call On Me second rather than first. I would've first went with Get It Out Me or Show Me. In any case, Janet will need some strong material. I like the quirky slightly off Runaway Janet or Rhythm Nation Janet.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on May 13, 2007 11:54:01 GMT -5
Damita Jo was a stronger effort than 20 Y.O., I will say that much. At least there are tracks on DJ that I enjoy listening to- none of the 20 Y.O. tracks jumped at me.
Needing *strong* material- that's whatever that means. ;) Also, singing correctly, not that whispery cooing she's been doing so much of lately.
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Linnethia Monique
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Post by Linnethia Monique on May 13, 2007 14:42:18 GMT -5
I can't even complain on the promo part of the album. It was just THE SINGLES CHOICES! If nothing pops off than its not going to work. Why poor more money into a project that didnt get afloat after the first 2 singles failed. Virgin did the right move to stop promoting it. And that whole having the fan album cover ship for the first million shipment was toooooooo far-fetched of a promotion scheme. If they would've did like 100K of the fan covers (with a 25K split for all 4) than release the original cover it would've been better. People that weren't on messageboards or searched the web had no idea what they were buying. I saw so many confused faces like is this the real album?!
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Kishi KCM
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Post by Kishi KCM on May 13, 2007 15:33:04 GMT -5
IMO, the singles from 20 Y.O. should've been: 1) Get It Out Me: a really strong track. 2) Call On Me: doesn't deserve the bashing it's gotten. I'd crank up the vocals and MAYBE a lil verse for Nelly, maybe. This was still an Urban #1. 3) With U: perfect song. 4) Enjoy: fan favourite. There's even a download day for this song next month. 5) So Excited/Do It To Me: Love both of these songs. I'd crank up the vocals on So Excited.
I guess the disappointment of the 20 Y.O. era is more understandable: poor promotion, lack of radio support, fan covers, misleading appearances (Oprah and magazines), age, Jermaine Dupri, Virgin unfolding, and the Superbowl incident. There was too much storm around the album that it never stood a chance. It sucks...she's got to be more in control of her own career.
I consider her one of the BEST in entertainment of all time. Singer, songwriter, dancer, performer. She should really listen to the fans. And we shouldn't turn our back on her!
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on May 13, 2007 16:31:37 GMT -5
Needing *strong* material- that's whatever that means. ;) Also, singing correctly, not that whispery cooing she's been doing so much of lately. That's your opinion. Strong material is going to be different for everyone....simply because tastes are different. Your taste is different from mine and everyone else's... That's so broad that it could mean anything and has almost no actionable value and is an oversimplified solution to a very complex problem.
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colson
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Post by colson on May 13, 2007 17:21:40 GMT -5
Needing *strong* material- that's whatever that means. ;) Also, singing correctly, not that whispery cooing she's been doing so much of lately. That's your opinion. Strong material is going to be different for everyone....simply because tastes are different. Your taste is different from mine and everyone else's... That's so broad that it could mean anything and has almost no actionable value and is an oversimplified solution to a very complex problem. Well, most ppl I know was complaining more about the whispery singing than the actual material and it seems like it's getting worse on each album. SE had promise, but you can't understand what Janet is saying if you are the casual listener.
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SAY IT RIGHT
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Post by SAY IT RIGHT on May 13, 2007 22:10:41 GMT -5
Re promo- I think that some tend to point to that as an easy reason as to why a project fails. But when you think about it, in the past, it's not like Janet did HUGE amounts of promo for her albums, after the initial blast. Totally disagree. Damita Jo was a stronger effort than 20 Y.O., I will say that much. At least there are tracks on DJ that I enjoy listening to- none of the 20 Y.O. tracks jumped at me. Totally disagree.
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masterpiece
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Post by masterpiece on May 14, 2007 0:48:23 GMT -5
Damita Jo is better than 20 Y.O, it was just an extremely lazy project.
Going back to the basics is the only advice I can give
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Post by Running changes on May 14, 2007 2:58:32 GMT -5
20 YEARS OLD is WAY BETTER than Damita Jo,IMO...less songs,less interludes,more "uptempos",sex a little bit toned down than DamitaJo...and then 20 YEARS OLD has one of Janet's best songs:ENJOY :)
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Post by busyboy on May 14, 2007 3:45:45 GMT -5
See how opinions diverge? The only consensus we could find is when an artist has hot singles that can be promoted at radio, on which almost everyone can agree, IMO. In both cases the choice was limited.
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Post by busyboy on May 14, 2007 3:52:20 GMT -5
^ We can also agree if the album is really great like "Control" or "Rhythm Nation", of course.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on May 14, 2007 7:33:34 GMT -5
Of course tastes vary. But my point is that it's likely that a LOT of people thought the material on 20 Y.O. was not up to Janet's best work, hence the lack of interest. Again, coming from a longtime supporter here, so please don't just disregard my viewpoints. :)
As said, many factors contributed to the album's poor performance everywhere. Damita Jo was stronger (IMO), but it also suffered for various reasons, also, and not just 1 or 2.
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on May 14, 2007 8:22:24 GMT -5
I wish Janet would sing and not whisper so much. In some of her songs it fits but in the bulk of them the whispering is completely out of place. I'm not disregarding them at all. Apparently, Janet needs better material. That's obvious. What does that mean...the whispering, the message of the songs, the production, the music? Those are things Janet can change...simply saying ohh well she needs stronger material has almost no actionable value unless you can define what that means.
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SAY IT RIGHT
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Post by SAY IT RIGHT on May 14, 2007 10:34:50 GMT -5
Of course tastes vary. But my point is that it's likely that a LOT of people thought the material on 20 Y.O. was not up to Janet's best work, hence the lack of interest. Again, coming from a longtime supporter here, so please don't just disregard my viewpoints. :) As said, many factors contributed to the album's poor performance everywhere. Damita Jo was stronger (IMO), but it also suffered for various reasons, also, and not just 1 or 2. If people have not heard the album, there cant be a general lack of interest due to the material thats on it. Also if you read the reviews from the urban publications, her reviews were favorable. Some of the more mainstream publiucations didnt give her favorable reviews at all, but the urban market that the album was directed towards liked it. Same with Damita Jo. So i think it all boils down to what type of Janet sound u like. Most people who liked the urban flavor, enjyed both albums. I know I personally got people to buy Damita Jo and 20 Yo after making them listen to it and give it a chance.
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on May 14, 2007 12:17:54 GMT -5
Of course tastes vary. But my point is that it's likely that a LOT of people thought the material on 20 Y.O. was not up to Janet's best work, hence the lack of interest. Again, coming from a longtime supporter here, so please don't just disregard my viewpoints. :) As said, many factors contributed to the album's poor performance everywhere. Damita Jo was stronger (IMO), but it also suffered for various reasons, also, and not just 1 or 2. I certainly think that was part of it and as Janet fans we should not discount attempts at constructive criticism....but yeah the music wasn't up to snuff because of the production, vocals, and material.
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SAY IT RIGHT
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Post by SAY IT RIGHT on May 14, 2007 13:25:10 GMT -5
Like I sad, I agree the music wasnt her best, but it was good enough to fit in with anything thats at radio and thats selling today. At the end of the day, the music doesnt have to be YOUR BEST, in order to sell. People have such high standards for Janet because she has made some of the best and most memorable music over the past 2 decades, but its hard to continue with that trend forever.
To be honest, I feel "Damita jo" and "20 YO" were both stronger efforts than "All For You" but that album had a few massive singles and sold over 3 million copies. So I dont blame her recent material at all, I mean if u can sell records with a song called "Fergalicious" there is no reason why any of the material on "20 YO" would be seen as so bad that it cant be sold.
I really believe that Janet could have made another album as good as "Rhythm Nation" or "janet" and it still wouldnt have sold any better because there were so many other elements that were wrong with the release of "20 YO."
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Cory | Alan
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Post by Cory | Alan on May 14, 2007 13:39:13 GMT -5
Crap On Me is what killed 20 Copies Sold. That song just may have killed Janet's career too. It was played twice on one of my local pop stations and it received a royal thrashing by the public. They never played anything else from 20C.S.
I agree that Damita Jo is the much better album, but 20C.S had "Get It Out Me" and "Show Me," two of my all-time fave Janet tracks!
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SAY IT RIGHT
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Post by SAY IT RIGHT on May 14, 2007 13:49:47 GMT -5
Well "Call on me" did get another #1 r&b hit and if it wasnt for that song, Janet would not have sold what she did. So im not sure how her 11th or 12th #1 at r&b killed her career. If it did anything, it got her the biggest hit she has had since "Someone to call my lover" and got radio receptive to her again after none of the singles from "Damita JO" made top 10 anywhere.
Im also not sure what public u are speaking of that "thrashed" the song. It got a great call out response from the public and was in the upper 90% so dont confuse your own personal preferences wiith the mass public. I dont know why people are under this illusion that unless u are top 10 on the pop charts, your song doesnt have major success elsewhere and no1 likes it. There is life outside of pop radio, I promise.
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Cory | Alan
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Post by Cory | Alan on May 14, 2007 13:58:51 GMT -5
I am basing it off the the "public" that called into the radio that day. It was slated by all callers.
Please, do not think I am a "Janet Hata." I ADORE Miss Janet. She has been the soundtrack to my life, but I know crap when I hear it. And please, do not dilude yourself with the whole #1 RnB title for COM. How did it get there? By releasing a $0.99 physical single. That's how.
Can you say Mariah Carey "Loverboy?"
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Post by reception on May 14, 2007 14:59:07 GMT -5
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