Gary
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Post by Gary on Jun 20, 2014 20:16:06 GMT -5
Yes I agree, everyone who buys the pre-order gets all the singles(after all that is how the iTunes system works), that does not mean that everyone who gets all the singles also pre-orders the album I didn't mean that everyone was buying the album and not the singles, just that a good portion of them are.. Which brings me back to my first question. Do you know for sure?
For example, I have all the singles(as they have all (or most of them) have been prominently displayed in the iTunes top 10 at one time or another and I may yet commit to spend the 2.50 to get the full album but I have not yet done so
I am sure others do that to?
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Post by ListenToItTwice on Jun 20, 2014 20:23:49 GMT -5
I didn't mean that everyone was buying the album and not the singles, just that a good portion of them are.. Which brings me back to my first question. Do you know for sure?
For example, I have all the singles(as they have all (or most of them) have been prominently displayed in the iTunes top 10 at one time or another and I may yet commit to spend the 2.50 to get the full album but I have not yet done so
I am sure others do that to?
All we know for sure is that the pre-orders are supplementing the singles' positions on iTunes. I can't claim to know one way or another where they'd rank without the pre-orders. |
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imbondz
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Post by imbondz on Jun 20, 2014 20:54:50 GMT -5
The chart is so f**ked up now. f**k you Sheerman I will download your album from torrents. so wrong but still lol |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 23:42:46 GMT -5
Solution for billboard: take the number of pre orders for the album, and subtract it from the single's sales.
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Jun 21, 2014 6:17:44 GMT -5
What's different about Sheeran, as compared to Taylor Swift's Countdown Single tactic (as an example), is that very few people are actually buying these singles.. Rather, they're pre-ordering the album and getting the song ahead of time as a nice bonus. That should count only for the Album Chart, as far as I'm concerned. Agreed. These people bought the album, not the singles. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2014 10:58:35 GMT -5
Which brings me back to my first question. Do you know for sure?
For example, I have all the singles(as they have all (or most of them) have been prominently displayed in the iTunes top 10 at one time or another and I may yet commit to spend the 2.50 to get the full album but I have not yet done so
I am sure others do that to?
All we know for sure is that the pre-orders are supplementing the singles' positions on iTunes. I can't claim to know one way or another where they'd rank without the pre-orders. They wouldn't. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jun 21, 2014 11:37:22 GMT -5
I can attest I bought the singles without preordering the album. I am probably not the only one.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jun 21, 2014 11:38:23 GMT -5
Solution for billboard: take the number of pre orders for the album, and subtract it from the single's sales. When album purchases are confirmed. This already happens. |
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Jun 21, 2014 12:32:50 GMT -5
Solution for billboard: take the number of pre orders for the album, and subtract it from the single's sales. When album purchases are confirmed. This already happens. Then they should wait until the purchases are confirmed to even count those as singles sales. If they wait for confirmation for the album, why not do so for the songs? |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jun 21, 2014 12:42:41 GMT -5
The purchase of the single is confirmed. The album is not
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Jun 21, 2014 13:13:51 GMT -5
If the purchase is likely to be refunded, I wouldn't say it's confirmed.
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Jun 21, 2014 13:34:55 GMT -5
I can attest I bought the singles without preordering the album. I am probably not the only one. But iTunes is able to distinguish how many were purchased and how many were pre-orders. I believe only the people who bought the songs individually should count. Those who are getting the songs due to pre-order should not. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jun 21, 2014 13:41:11 GMT -5
I can attest I bought the singles without preordering the album. I am probably not the only one. But iTunes is able to distinguish how many were purchased and how many were pre-orders. I believe only the people who bought the songs individually should count. Those who are getting the songs due to pre-order should not. . You can always back out of a pre order. Until the money is taken. It does not count |
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on Jun 21, 2014 15:12:14 GMT -5
I can attest I bought the singles without preordering the album. I am probably not the only one. But iTunes is able to distinguish how many were purchased and how many were pre-orders. I believe only the people who bought the songs individually should count. Those who are getting the songs due to pre-order should not. I'm not sure if Apple are able to or willing to do that. This is from the OCC last October, after mainly Eminem, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry & One Direction brought instant grats to major attention: Yeah but, if I buy one of these tracks outright as a single but don’t actually pre-order the accompanying album, surely my purchase should count towards the Official Singles Chart?
Yes, absolutely! We agree whole-heartedly with this, and that’s why the chart rules state that regular purchases (a la carte purchases) are perfectly eligible to chart.
For this to happen though and these sales to be counted, retailer sales data need to be delivered to the Official Charts Company in a way that breaks these down and differentiates between ‘instant grat’ tracks, and regular singles purchases which are bought outside of the album pre-order incentive. Retailers haven’t supplied it in this way to date.
www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/a-guide-to-instant-grat-promotions-and-official-chart-rules-2575/ I guess it's possible Apple are asking for more money than they can afford (or that the OCC are just lazy and throwing around the blame), but it implies that they haven't managed to get that data from Apple (who I believe are they only retailer to do instant grats). By the same measure I would expect it to be an obstacle for Billboard, and since airplay/streaming push down the instant grats to barely noticeable levels they probably don't have as much motivation to work on it as other countries. |
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Jun 21, 2014 15:32:12 GMT -5
But iTunes is able to distinguish how many were purchased and how many were pre-orders. I believe only the people who bought the songs individually should count. Those who are getting the songs due to pre-order should not. . You can always back out of a pre order. Until the money is taken. It does not count Just like you can back out of the song purchase by getting your money back in order to buy the whole album. |
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on Jun 21, 2014 17:23:22 GMT -5
Here is how it works, not sure it will change just because people don't like it. Also this is hardly the first time this has happened. .1. When a single is released ahead of the album, you have 2 options, a. you can buy the single for $1.29 and because you paid $1.29, that is +1 for singles sales b. you can preorder the album and be charged the $1.29 for the single. Because you paid $.19 that is +1 for singles sales This doesn't include instant grats made available to people who've already pre-ordered the album. There's a different level of voluntariness between pre-ordering with the knowledge that you'll immediately get one track, and being delivered a track that you may or may not have expected or known anything about when you pre-ordered weeks before. You should stop the "nothing will change" mindset (not to mention everything about your attitude); it is a genuine issue when involuntary downloads count as purchases, it hasn't been a big deal for a long time, and another major chart publisher (the OCC) have recognised the issue and made policies about it. I don't really care that much (my bigger issue is that popular artists get to fill more spots on charts with no effort), but can you at least find some new topics to talk about? I think we'd all appreciate it. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jun 21, 2014 18:03:48 GMT -5
OK everyone,
I get that people don't like the fact that the Ed Sheeran singles are charting because of the perception that these are really album purchases and are not real singles and therefore should not be considered singles.
I get that this temporarily impacts chart position and causes other songs to temporarily have lower positions.
I get that people wish to exclude these and make their own lists to decide for themselves what is really popular.
The Hot 100 is a weekly chart and this will have a temporary impact because some Ed Sheeran singles will chart. As far as the Hot 100 is concerned, a single is a single.
Two weeks from now this will all correct itself and the long-term popular singles will still be there and the temporary advance singles will be gone and all will be happy again
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Post by ListenToItTwice on Jun 21, 2014 18:22:34 GMT -5
 Let us talk about this if we want to, though
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2014 23:12:38 GMT -5
K I don't like how Maps is falling so hard.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jun 21, 2014 23:22:21 GMT -5
Typical til radio catches up with it which from the looks of things should be soon
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Jun 21, 2014 23:22:25 GMT -5
Kenny Chesney in the top ten. That's weird. I don't remember "Pirate Flag" selling well out of the gate.
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Jun 22, 2014 0:05:37 GMT -5
What's different about Sheeran, as compared to Taylor Swift's Countdown Single tactic (as an example), is that very few people are actually buying these singles.. Rather, they're pre-ordering the album and getting the song ahead of time as a nice bonus. That should count only for the Album Chart, as far as I'm concerned. You get one song with a pre order lol! Not six. |
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Jun 22, 2014 0:16:32 GMT -5
What's different about Sheeran, as compared to Taylor Swift's Countdown Single tactic (as an example), is that very few people are actually buying these singles.. Rather, they're pre-ordering the album and getting the song ahead of time as a nice bonus. That should count only for the Album Chart, as far as I'm concerned. You get one song with a pre order lol! Not six. Not in Ed Sheeran's case. |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jun 22, 2014 7:44:52 GMT -5
That is true. Kind of. When you pre-order Ed Sheeran's album and only 'Sing' has been released, that is all you get at the time you hit the pre-order button. However, as subsequent songs become available later you get them as they become available automatically.
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imbondz
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Post by imbondz on Jun 22, 2014 9:40:16 GMT -5
the whole complete my album / and the effect it has on the charts for some reason is rocket science to me. I've tried to read your alls explanation but after about 2 sentences trying to understand it I clicked on another thread. Not sure why I don't get it.
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jun 22, 2014 9:50:17 GMT -5
If a partial album is downloaded (1 or more songs on the album still left to buy) it is a singles purchase
When you complete the album the singles purchase is reversed and it becomes an album purchase
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imbondz
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Post by imbondz on Jun 22, 2014 15:35:26 GMT -5
If a partial album is downloaded (1 or more songs on the album still left to buy) it is a singles purchase When you complete the album the singles purchase is reversed and it becomes an album purchase ok I got that. then what happens to the singles totals? billboard takes them away? |
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Gary
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Post by Gary on Jun 22, 2014 15:40:08 GMT -5
If a partial album is downloaded (1 or more songs on the album still left to buy) it is a singles purchase When you complete the album the singles purchase is reversed and it becomes an album purchase ok I got that. then what happens to the singles totals? billboard takes them away? Historic chart positions are not adjusted but a single gets hit with a -1 for the current week for each 'complete my album'
So it is possible for a song to have sales of less than zero for the current week. A likely scenario for a few of the Ed Sheeran songs
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imbondz
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Post by imbondz on Jun 22, 2014 15:44:11 GMT -5
I would think a - sales total would make a song disappear from the Top 100 no? then re-enter the following week. has that happened?
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Post by ListenToItTwice on Jun 22, 2014 16:35:34 GMT -5
I would think a - sales total would make a song disappear from the Top 100 no? then re-enter the following week. has that happened? As we saw with the Coldplay release, Billboard's policy is strange on this one: the "negative sales" don't affect the chart ranking! Each copy of a song that's purchased counts, and the returns don't negate them. |
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Let us talk about this if we want to, though