Billboard Hot 100: 11/5/11

[colson]

^Really? Thanks for figuring that out for us. ;)

[Deleted]

Oct 21, 2011 23:08:33 GMT -5 SPRΞΞ said:

Oct 21, 2011 23:00:34 GMT -5 @2m said:

Yes overexposure will sink in eventually

yes it will.

I would think it would have RIGHT NOW, but it hasn't. But then again, she's only 23.

I can't even imagine what it must be like to be 23 and that successful. I don't even know her last name.

Age isn't the key factor here, it is time in the spotlight. 1 album every 8 months or so, keeps her in the spotlight for sure.

However it could potentially create burnout, people at some point will not jump on the singles in the same manner they do now. I do not know when that will be but it will happen eventually.

Happening to Beyonce now, for example.

[SPRΞΞ]

Oct 21, 2011 23:20:37 GMT -5 d.t.m said:

Yep, next up Whit. After that Madonna & The Supremes. After that MJ...

it's just statistics.

I hope you don't place Rihanna higher on cultural rank than those legends purely based off chart success.

curious tho, what is your personal opinion? Where does she rank?

is Rihanna more of a cultural legend than Janet Jackson because she has more #1's?

just curious and i want an honest opinion.

not trying to start a fanwar as i'll throw Katy to the recycle bin before i throw those other legends to the curb.

[colson]

^Maybe this question should be asked in the opinion forum. :)

[SPRΞΞ]

Oct 21, 2011 23:42:29 GMT -5 colson said:

^Maybe this question should be asked in the opinion forum. :)

pulsemusic.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=opinion&thread=110803

;)

[BlueSwan]

Oct 21, 2011 23:38:55 GMT -5 SPRΞΞ said:

Oct 21, 2011 23:20:37 GMT -5 d.t.m said:

Yep, next up Whit. After that Madonna & The Supremes. After that MJ...

it's just statistics.

I hope you don't place Rihanna higher on cultural rank than those legends purely based off chart success.

curious tho, what is your personal opinion? Where does she rank?

is Rihanna more of a cultural legend than Janet Jackson because she has more #1's?

just curious and i want an honest opinion.

not trying to start a fanwar as i'll throw Katy to the recycle bin before i throw those other legends to the curb.

Rihanna is not a cultural legend - at least not YET. She has scored phenomenal chart succes, but she has not set any trends. I certainly wouldn't put Janet Jackson on the level with MJ, Madonna, Whitney or Mariah for that matter either.

Despite having far fewer hits, Lady GaGa is much more of a trend setter than Rihanna. Infact, if they both died in a plane crash tomorrow, I'm 100% positive that Lady GaGa is the one that people will remember 20 years from now.

I'm not trying to be down on Rihanna. She's done amazingly well and I suspect that she will continue to do so for several years to come eventually making her a true chart legend.

[d.t.m]

It's kinda weird discussing this, but I actually think Rihanna would be remembered more. She's conventionally beautiful, successful, graced way more magazines around the world and most importantly, is known for being a survivor. She's a role model for young women and also became a POP star with substance after Rated R.

In fact, when I think of a POP star today I think of Rihanna. I actually think the Gaga hype will wear of before Rihanna's. She's on the verge of being today's Cyndi Lauper novelty act IMO.

[Lozzy]

10/22 airplay updates:[/u]

1. ADELE - Someone Like You: 155.643 (+ 0.919)
2. MAROON 5 F/CHRISTINA AGUILERA - Moves Like Jagger: 151.654 (+ 0.456)
3. FOSTER THE PEOPLE - Pumped Up Kicks: 111.279 (- 0.614)
4. GYM CLASS HEROES - Stereo Hearts f/Adam Levine: 110.678 (+ 0.879)
5. COBRA STARSHIP - You Make Me Feel... f/Sabi: 91.294 (+ 0.945)
6. LMFAO - Party Rock Anthem: 82.302 (- 1.540)
7. DEV - In The Dark: 78.538 (+ 0.214)
8. DAVID GUETTA - Without You f/Usher: 77.165 (+ 0.896)
9. PITBULL - Give Me Everything f/Ne-Yo: 72.661 (- 0.010)
10. DRAKE - Headlines: 70.987 (+ 0.875)
11. LMFAO - Sexy And I Know It: 70.718 (+ 1.945)
12. BAD MEETS EVIL - Lighters f/Bruno Mars: 65.997 (- 0.692)
13. RIHANNA - We Found Love f/Calvin Harris: 64.216 (+ 1.532) ▲
14. LADY GAGA - You And I: 64.064 (+ 0.080) ▼
15. LIL WAYNE - She Will f/Drake: 62.293 (- 0.085)
16. ONEREPUBLIC - Good Life: 60.978 (- 0.438)
17. NICKI MINAJ - Super Bass: 59.792 (- 0.371)
18. ADELE - Rolling In The Deep: 58.716 (+ 0.024)
19. LIL WAYNE - How To Love: 54.746 (- 0.456)
20. JAY Z & KANYE WEST - N***** In Paris: 53.202 (+ 1.218) ▲

BLAKE SHELTON - God Gave Me You: 53.136 (+ 0.142)
KATY PERRY - Last Friday Night (T.G.I.F.): 50.248 (- 0.533)
KELLY CLARKSON - Mr. Know It All: 49.678 (+ 0.212)
LADY ANTEBELLUM - Just A Kiss: 49.104 (+ 0.378)
GEORGE STRAIT - Here For A Good Time: 48.077 (- 0.971)
ALEXANDRA STAN - Mr. Saxobeat: 46.187 (+ 0.015)
MIRANDA LAMBERT - Baggage Claim: 41.539 (+ 0.673)
NICKI MINAJ - Fly f/Rihanna: 41.051 (+ 0.702)
THE SCRIPT - Nothing: 39.885 (+ 0.066)
TAYLOR SWIFT - Sparks Fly: 39.176 (+ 0.200)
T-PAIN - 5 O'clock f/Wiz Khalifa: 33.218 (+ 0.889)
BRUNO MARS - It Will Rain: 27.575 (+ 1.294)
BEYONCE - Party f/Kanye & Andre: 26.722 (+ 0.462)
KATY PERRY - The One That Got Away: 20.975 (+ 1.787)
BRITNEY SPEARS - Criminal: 13.598 (+ 0.180)
SELENA GOMEZ & THE SCENE - Love You Like A Love Song: 13.268 (+ 0.191)
COLDPLAY - Paradise: 13.151 (+ 0.020)
KELLY ROWLAND - Lay It On Me f/Big Sean: 7.058 (- 0.139)
ENRIQUE IGLESIAS - I Like How It Feels: 6.950 (+ 0.074)
DRAKE - Make Me Proud f/Nicki Minaj: 6.820 (+ 0.194)
JENNIFER LOPEZ - Papi: 6.462 (+ 0.456)
EVANESCENCE - What You Want: 5.895 (+ 0.092)

[Source]

[BlueSwan]

Oct 22, 2011 5:33:13 GMT -5 d.t.m said:

It's kinda weird discussing this, but I actually think Rihanna would be remembered more. She's conventionally beautiful, successful, graced way more magazines around the world and most importantly, is known for being a survivor. She's a role model for young women and also became a POP star with substance after Rated R.

In fact, when I think of a POP star today I think of Rihanna. I actually think the Gaga hype will wear of before Rihanna's. She's on the verge of being today's Cyndi Lauper novelty act IMO.

I agree that Gaga may very well wear out before Rihanna, but Gaga still made a bigger cultural impact.

[Deleted]

Meh. I dont understand why so many people get bothered over Rihanna snatching people's outdated wig (Mariah, Suprenes, Whitney etc). It's clearly a problem if whenever someone points out the fact that she may very well do it, someone feels the need to chime in and change the discussion to music integrity/qualit/cultural impact or whatever. It just seems really extra to draw all these conclusions off of a simple comment someone made when they dont matter either way.

The same often happens to Katy Perry as well because whenever people bring up the fact that her album is comparable to Thriller singles wise, they feel the need to discredit her as well and go off about the differences in their "quality" or the same obnoxious stuff.

People just need to DEAL with the chart facts and let the whole "musical superiority" between artists go.

[leoapp]

Gaga made a massive impact in her earlier career but i bet she'll fade faster, BTW era is the proof how her fame is decreasing a lot. (Although it's bias cos her debut ere was just too massive)
Rihanna in the other hand, started slowly from her debut era and just keeps getting bigger than ever. Actually Rihanna's career looks similar to Madonna's career, Madonna's debut era wasn't that hot either but she kept getting bigger and bigger. Gaga is more like Cyndi Lauper, (maybe), but who knows?

Oh, and records are meant to be broken, although from the bottom of my heart, cos i'm a lamb, i don't really want Rihanna to surpass her, especially because Rihanna didn't write/cowrite her own hits and a couple of her hits are just her as featured act.
Still, even if Rihanna can do it, i will congrats her.
Mariah still holds so many records which are harder to beat.

[HolidayGuy]

SPREE, I'm sure d.t.m. (as others) knows charts are just charts and do not mean anything more other than measuring a track's initial popularity. We've had this discussion a few times at least on this board, right?

Just as someone like Mimi Carey isn't anywhere near being in the league of Elvis, Beatles, Michael Jackson and Madonna (they're far and away from others, as it should be), an act like Rihanna is not in the league of a Mimi Carey, Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston, or anyone that she passes on the No. 1s list (though because of her producers and writers, she's had more singles rack up critical success than Carey or Houston; her albums are another story). And with the way she is as an artist (not having much of a hand in anything), I don't see that really changing as her label pushes and pushes to attain the Hot 100 No. 1s record.

I find myself often repeating (I know, shocking, ain't it) how the amount of #1s an act attains does not mean much, but it's so true. Acts who are regarded as some of the best of all time had few to zero No. 1 hits on the Hot 100. Like RiRi is regarded as a better artist because she's racked up so many hits? Come on now. I don't think anyone really believes that, and if they do, give me some of what they're on.

Back to airplay updates. Queen B is doing very nice at urban this era; first BTINH and now "Party." Updates for "Criminal' have been smallish- so it looks like it will be the airplay runt of the Femme Fatale litter.

[Enigma.]

She's not in the same league, yet, but let's see in 5-7 years time. I think RiRi has the chance to become legendary as an artist, chart-wise she is already close.

[Lozzy]

We don't see Rihanna as legendary because she's relatively new to the music scene. All the artists we think of as legends are established, such as Mariah, Janet and Whitney, which were all active and prominent twenty years ago. With Rihanna's consistency, the way she gets bigger with each era, her huge multi-format appeal and fanbase and all that, we'll eventually see her as a legend with time.

[HolidayGuy]

^That is true, it's only been six years and change. But, one can be considered a legend and still not be considered one of the greatest artists of all time. Celine Dion probably is a legend as much as a Mimi Carey or Whitney Houston- and none of them are overall critical/cultural smashes. Damita Jo is regarded stronger than the three of them, but the last decade-plus is taking its toll (she hasn't even been considered for the R& Hall of Fame yet, for instance).

Cher would be the epitome of a legend who lacks the critical kudos (in music, anyhow); same for Barbra Streisand. Britney Spears is the biggest pop star of the last 15 years and she lacks big critical success- yet she's probably considered a legend or will be.

So, in the end, I would I agree that RiRi can become a legend, but it won't necessarily mean anything in regards to how she's regarded artistically.

[slw84]

Oct 21, 2011 21:53:31 GMT -5 SPRΞΞ said:

it's really crazy to think Rihanna will top Mariah Carey at some point, given that she's only 23 right now. Or is she 24? lol

with 6 years left of complete domination, i think she'll easily do it.

I bet her label has a complete blueprint of her entire career until she hits 30. They just need her to be ok with it.

Yeah...if she could release 4 more albums in the next six years it would be perfect. 10 albums...hopefully a #1 at some point and a slew of #1 singles.

I think her next couple albums will take her to the next level after that she will start to go down and then it is a matter of how she sustains after that.

Rihanna is not a cultural legend - at least not YET. She has scored phenomenal chart succes, but she has not set any trends. I certainly wouldn't put Janet Jackson on the level with MJ, Madonna, Whitney or Mariah for that matter either.
<<Um, she is a trendsetter and fashion icon...deal with it. I wouldn't put her on the level of either of them except when it comes to #1 singles which isn't based on cultural impact. ;)

Despite having far fewer hits, Lady GaGa is much more of a trend setter than Rihanna. Infact, if they both died in a plane crash tomorrow, I'm 100% positive that Lady GaGa is the one that people will remember 20 years from now.
>>Fair enough, but Gaga is facing that stage in her career where the hype is dying down and there is a little backlash (called it). Now it is a matter of sustaining to show her longevity. I actually think that they would both be remembered. Gaga more for her outrageous antics and less for her music. Rihanna more for her outrageous fashions/looks and less for her music. But between the two, I think people will remember more hits off the top of their head from Riri than Gaga. Sorry :'( :'( :'(


I'm not trying to be down on Rihanna. She's done amazingly well and I suspect that she will continue to do so for several years to come eventually making her a true chart legend
Ok

Oct 22, 2011 5:33:13 GMT -5 d.t.m said:

It's kinda weird discussing this, but I actually think Rihanna would be remembered more. She's conventionally beautiful, successful, graced way more magazines around the world and most importantly, is known for being a survivor. She's a role model for young women and also became a POP star with substance after Rated R.

In fact, when I think of a POP star today I think of Rihanna. I actually think the Gaga hype will wear of before Rihanna's. She's on the verge of being today's Cyndi Lauper novelty act IMO.

I agree...good point. Gaga's next two albums will determine all of that. It happens in everyone's career its just Rihanna's career has seen a different trajectory. She rose after a few albums and wasn't an instant smash artist whereas Gaga was instant and now she has to level out and sustain now that the hype is down. I just wonder how many more outrageous stunts gaga is going to do before there's nothing left.

Oct 22, 2011 7:13:31 GMT -5 @swella said:

Meh. I dont understand why so many people get bothered over Rihanna snatching people's outdated wig (Mariah, Suprenes, Whitney etc). It's clearly a problem if whenever someone points ot the fact that she very well do it, someone feels the need to hime in and change the discussion to music integrity/qualit/cultural impact or whatever. It just seems really extra to draw all these conclusions off of a simple comment someone made when they dont matter either way.

>>>Because when you put certain people in the same sentence ppl instantly compare and critique the odd man out. i agree they don't matter but it's human nature. For instance, Britney, Beyonce, Christina and Pink are the most successful female artists worldwide (and in that order) of the late 90s/00s generation. If someone were to bring up singing abilities (as much as I stan for her) one person would stand out like a sore thumb in comparison to the rest...it's human nature but it doesn't change statistics. Ppl complain out frivolous things all the time.

The same often happens to Katy Perry as well because whenever people bring up the fact that her album is comparable to Thriller singles wise, they feel the need to discredit her as well and go off about the differences in their "quality" or the same obnoxious stuff.

Whatchu talking about Willis? Someone compared her album to Thriller...for real :o :o :o
I can understand the 5#1s thing which MJ had from his Bad album.


People just need to DEAL with the chart facts and let the whole "musical superiority" between artists go.

True...but this message board is designed for drama like this so it will continue. In the real world, no one is really going to care unless the artist is constantly referred to as the "most..., highest..., only..." otherwise they won't really know the difference.

Oct 22, 2011 9:00:55 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

^That is true, it's only been six years and change. But, one can be considered a legend and still not be considered one of the greatest artists of all time. Celine Dion probably is a legend as much as a Mimi Carey or Whitney Houston- and none of them are overall critical/cultural smashes. Damita Jo is regarded stronger than the three of them, but the last decade-plus is taking its toll (she hasn't even been considered for the R& Hall of Fame yet, for instance).

Cher would be the epitome of a legend who lacks the critical kudos (in music, anyhow); same for Barbra Streisand. Britney Spears is the biggest pop star of the last 15 years and she lacks big critical success- yet she's probably considered a legend or will be.

Gurl, she is a legend. ;)
Great points because Cher had some of the biggest most memorable hits of the 60s 70s 80s 90s and yet her singing ability will always be questioned. Barbra is the voice of a generation.

So, in the end, I would I agree that RiRi can become a legend, but it won't necessarily mean anything in regards to how she's regarded artistically.

Great points.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

Oct 21, 2011 23:37:11 GMT -5 @2m said:

Oct 21, 2011 23:08:33 GMT -5 SPRΞΞ said:

yes it will.

I would think it would have RIGHT NOW, but it hasn't. But then again, she's only 23.

I can't even imagine what it must be like to be 23 and that successful. I don't even know her last name.

Age isn't the key factor here, it is time in the spotlight. 1 album every 8 months or so, keeps her in the spotlight for sure.

However it could potentially create burnout, people at some point will not jump on the singles in the same manner they do now. I do not know when that will be but it will happen eventually.

Happening to Beyonce now, for example.

Beyonce is a bad example. She released music no one likes. It has nothing to do with Beyonce burn out. Radio wants to play her tracks but her songs aren't made for radio.

[Deleted]

Oct 22, 2011 15:16:27 GMT -5 Adonis the DemiGod! said:

Oct 21, 2011 23:37:11 GMT -5 @2m said:

Age isn't the key factor here, it is time in the spotlight. 1 album every 8 months or so, keeps her in the spotlight for sure.

However it could potentially create burnout, people at some point will not jump on the singles in the same manner they do now. I do not know when that will be but it will happen eventually.

Happening to Beyonce now, for example.

Beyonce is a bad example. She released music no one likes. It has nothing to do with Beyonce burn out. Radio wants to play her tracks but her songs aren't made for radio.

Beyonce is a perfect example. A few years back even "music no one likes" would have easily cracked the top 10

[livelikedying111]

Oct 22, 2011 15:31:19 GMT -5 @2m said:

Oct 22, 2011 15:16:27 GMT -5 Adonis the DemiGod! said:

Beyonce is a bad example. She released music no one likes. It has nothing to do with Beyonce burn out. Radio wants to play her tracks but her songs aren't made for radio.

Beyonce is a perfect example. A few years back even "music no one likes" would have easily cracked the top 10

I blame it on the album. She's gone with a sound that's for me similar to Jennifer Hudson's, the album's not as poppy as one would expect, hence its performance... this time it's not about overexposure...she returned after a long break.

[vantiboy3]

Oh Lord.
#Dried out Legend Discussion,
Take 92471.

[Deleted]

Oct 22, 2011 16:30:32 GMT -5 livelikedying111 said:

Oct 22, 2011 15:31:19 GMT -5 @2m said:

Beyonce is a perfect example. A few years back even "music no one likes" would have easily cracked the top 10

I blame it on the album. She's gone with a sound that's for me similar to Jennifer Hudson's, the album's not as poppy as one would expect, hence its performance... this time it's not about overexposure...she returned after a long break.

When was the last time the lead single from a Beyonce album failed to make the top 10, regardless of quality? Now we are on the 6th single with no major hit.

Beyonce has been charting since the mid 90s. This reception could be a sign that some of her fanbase is starting to move on.

It does happen to every major artist eventually.

[Deleted]

Ya'll are just....

[elementd5]

Oct 22, 2011 15:31:19 GMT -5 @2m said:

Oct 22, 2011 15:16:27 GMT -5 Adonis the DemiGod! said:

Beyonce is a bad example. She released music no one likes. It has nothing to do with Beyonce burn out. Radio wants to play her tracks but her songs aren't made for radio.

Beyonce is a perfect example. A few years back even "music no one likes" would have easily cracked the top 10

Besides maybe Beautiful Liar, which was hyped due to the collabo and the fact that it followed Irreplaceable, Beyonce has never experienced 'a top 10' that no one liked.

Point, blank, period, Beyonce created an Urban/ballad album that does not cater to current Pop trends and Girls was arguably a subpar track. Focusing on Urban/Rhythmic radio (which was her intention) and here we are with back-to-back R&B hits.

It's seems no different a situation (aside from the arguable mismanagement of singles) than if she had only released the Sasha Fierce side off of her last album without the I Am side.

[Deleted]

And the biggest songs from '4' did make the top 20 so someone did like them, just not as many as in the past

[d.t.m]

It's really more than just 'bad' first singles. The POP/R&B 'it' girl factor has begun to wane for Beyonce just as it did Alicia last year. I saw it coming for both ladies and now in their 30s it seems like some of their core female fanbases are moving on. They outlasted Ashanti and Ciara mainly due to having outstanding machines backing them(both are Queens of their respective labels), but the industry is fickle. Time only tells if they will be able to turn it around.

[singingsparrow]

I kind of get the sense "4" is to Beyonce what "The Element of Freedom" was for Alicia Keys.

Much like with Beyonce's track record this album cycle, Keys' airplay was situated primarily around the CHR/Rhythmic and Urban formats, while she was notably absent from the Mainstream Top 40 that go round. I recall many lamenting how her singles were "flopping" when examining peak positions on the Billboard Hot 100.........but also simultaneously expressing confusion as to why her releases were achieving high peaks on the airplay composite charts.

Alicia Keys isn't going away anytime soon, and neither is Beyonce. Just as "The Element of Freedom" was still able to shift about 1.5 million units domestically in spite of a more exclusive promotional circuit, "4" has held its own commercially, already obtaining Platinum status in spite of the lack of a decisive hit single with staying power ("Best Thing I Never Had" can reasonably be considered a hit, although it's not going to be remembered as its sharp plunge down each radio format suggests)

Namaste,
lisping HIBISCUS

[tonytaylor]

Oct 22, 2011 15:16:27 GMT -5 Adonis the DemiGod! said:

Oct 21, 2011 23:37:11 GMT -5 @2m said:

Age isn't the key factor here, it is time in the spotlight. 1 album every 8 months or so, keeps her in the spotlight for sure.

However it could potentially create burnout, people at some point will not jump on the singles in the same manner they do now. I do not know when that will be but it will happen eventually.

Happening to Beyonce now, for example.

Beyonce is a bad example. She released music no one likes. It has nothing to do with Beyonce burn out. Radio wants to play her tracks but her songs aren't made for radio.

You could have said the same for Adele's songs a few months ago. The difference there is they became so popular with the public, radio HAD to play them (belatedly). No, the public for the time being are pretty much Beyonce'd out.

[Deleted]

LOL @ outlasting Ashanti and Ciara. You say that as if those 2 were ever in the same league as Bey or Alicia (though I'll admit that Ashanti was actually pretty popular for a time period). I agree that it's harder for popstars post-30 to stay relevant especially with the scene how it is now but at the same time, that is not why the "4" era singles aren't doing well [ON POP]. It's not about people moving on from Beyonce, it's just horrible single management this time around like I said in the other thread.

The album generally isn't what's trendy in pop music rn and even though she has some songs that could do well mainstream, her label keeps confusing radio and sending out the wrong stuff. I think they started off on a bad foot singles wise and it's usually hard to turn an era around after it starts. But that said, and again, it's not as if the album is really struggling or anything. She's still selling well weekly.

Namaste Lisping said it perfectly.

[tonytaylor]

Oct 22, 2011 20:03:11 GMT -5 @swella said:

LOL @ outlasting Ashanti and Ciara. You say that as if those 2 were ever in the same league as Bey or Alicia (though I'll admit that Ashanti was actually pretty popular for a time period). I agree that it's harder for popstars post-30 to stay relevant especially with the scene how it is now but at the same time, that is not why the "4" era singles aren't doing well [ON POP]. It's not about people moving on from Beyonce, it's just horrible single management this time around like I said in the other thread.

The album generally isn't what's trendy in pop music rn and even though she has some songs that could do well mainstream, her label keeps confusing radio and sending out the wrong stuff. I think they started off on a bad foot singles wise and it's usually hard to turn an era around after it starts. But that said, and again, it's not as if the album is really struggling or anything. She's still selling well weekly.

Namaste Lisping said it perfectly.

But she isn't! She sold 15k in the US last week and 31k Worldwide. Awful figures.

[Deleted]

Yeah, but there's really only one album that's sold "well" this year.