HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Dec 15, 2011 22:26:19 GMT -5
But, it's just a chart/stats feat- I don't see why there would be a backlash. Everyone should understand that charts and quality/reverence don't go hand in hand, and that one's chart accomplishments has nothing to do with greatness or anything of the sort.
RiRi's and Katy's respective labels are working it- they're clearly interested and invested in trying to break all kinds of records- at least it makes the charts exciting, right?
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Caviar
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My Charts
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Post by Caviar on Dec 15, 2011 22:38:06 GMT -5
Why is everybody throwing shade at Katy because she and her team want to get 6 #1s? Ask yourself would you be acting the same way if your fav was doing the same thing?  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2011 22:43:34 GMT -5
Can we actually let her GET the #1 before we start whining about it (or conversely, feeling like we need to defend it)? If she 'only' peaks at #3 or whatever then all this gnashing of teeth is just going to look silly.
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gagagigigugu
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Post by gagagigigugu on Dec 15, 2011 22:52:36 GMT -5
records are meant to be broken and i think artists want achievements in their career as well regardless of whatever strategies that they are working on it as long as it's legal
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Post by Adonis the DemiGod! on Dec 15, 2011 23:22:45 GMT -5
People are doing on about nothing...It's all marketing at the end of the day and there's nothing wrong with marketing.
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Post by KeepDeanWeird on Dec 16, 2011 0:03:20 GMT -5
The irony for Katy was that her best-selling single until a couple of weeks ago was H&C. It outsold IKAG by 1M and, yet, because of the #3 peak doesn't get the props it deserves. As has been mentioned, the VAST majority of the public doesn't know or care about marketing tactics. I'm sure if soundscan and BDS had been around when Madonna has all those #2s (MG, CAC, EY, Cherish), they would've found a way to get them to #1. It's not like they're going to give away the BOB remix for free - if radio and people buy it, then the public wants it. If not, it will make no difference. I think it's amazing that this CD has produced so many radio friendly singles when many wrote KP as a novelty act. And, guess what, whether it's five years, 10 years or 20 years from now, someone will break that record, too with the right record and MARKETING!
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d.t.m
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D.T.M.
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Post by d.t.m on Dec 16, 2011 0:55:49 GMT -5
Ask yourself would you be acting the same way if your fav was doing the same thing? If Rihanna and IDJ was this freakin' desperate for a #1 hit there's no way I would defend her for it. Move on to the next song, please. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2011 2:00:26 GMT -5
Labels have been using tactics to manipulate the charts since like charts were invented. And labels have been releasing remixes for like 25+ years. And most physical singles were heavily discounted in the 1998-2001 era. It's nothing new. And a pop singer sticking a rapper on their song to get Rhythmic play is such an old tactic that's been done for plenty of times in the last 10 years or so.
And why wouldn't her label want to break the record when they're this close to it? I think any label would try to go for it. It's not one of those records that only gets broken like every other year. It's one of those once in a generation kind.
And it's not breaking any BillBoard rules so why should she be condemned for it? It's prefectly legit and ANY label/ artist can do this. It's called marketing. And her team has been very successful at it. It's not desperate, it's actually quite smart.
/rant over
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slamina
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Post by slamina on Dec 16, 2011 2:09:07 GMT -5
Labels have been using tactics to manipulate the charts since like charts were invented. And labels have been releasing remixes for like 25+ years. And most physical singles were heavily discounted in the 1998-2001 era. It's nothing new. And a pop singer sticking a rapper on their song to get Rhythmic play is such an old tactic that's been done for plenty of times in the last 10 years or so. And why wouldn't her label want to break the record when they're this close to it? I think any label would try to go for it. It's not one of those records that only gets broken like every other year. It's one of those once in a generation kind. And it's not breaking any BillBoard rules so why should she be condemned for it? It's prefectly legit and ANY label/ artist can do this. It's called marketing. And her team has been very successful at it. It's not desperate, it's actually quite smart. /rant over No lies spotted. Watch the naysayers continue on with the "desperate" and "cheap" accusations anyway. Whatever helps them sleep at night. lol |
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Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Dec 16, 2011 2:41:06 GMT -5
It's just a matter of opinion. As long as someone isn't accusing her of cheating, any negative reaction to the remix is totally warranted.
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Ryan
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Joined: June 2006
Posts: 6,012 
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Post by Ryan on Dec 16, 2011 6:37:21 GMT -5
12/16 Updates
1. RIHANNA - We Found Love f/Calvin Harris: 147.764 (+ 0.445)
2. LMFAO - Sexy And I Know It: 108.730 (+ 0.076)
3. DAVID GUETTA - Without You f/Usher: 107.357 (+ 0.012)
4. BRUNO MARS - It Will Rain: 104.449 (+ 2.033)
5. KATY PERRY - The One That Got Away: 99.077 (+ 0.865) ▲
6. GYM CLASS HEROES - Stereo Hearts f/Adam Levine: 98.014 (- 1.340) ▼
7. ADELE - Someone Like You: 92.730 (- 2.298)
8. JAY Z & KANYE WEST - N***** In Paris: 92.628 (+ 1.294)
9. FLO RIDA - Good Feeling: 90.955 (+ 0.493)
10. MAROON 5 F/CHRISTINA AGUILERA - Moves Like Jagger: 89.325 (+ 0.038)
11. DRAKE - Headlines: 81.036 (- 0.253)
12. T-PAIN - 5 O'clock f/Wiz Khalifa: 78.723 (+ 0.085)
13. J. COLE - Workout: 75.683 (+ 0.159)
14. KELLY CLARKSON - Mr. Know It All: 63.452 (- 0.048)
15. COBRA STARSHIP - You Make Me Feel... f/Sabi: 61.270 (- 1.458)
16. BIG SEAN - Dance (A$$): 59.262 (+ 0.543)
17. ZAC BROWN BAND - Keep Me In Mind: 51.592 (+ 0.270)
18. JASON ALDEAN - Tattoos On This Town: 51.064 (+ 0.151)
19. LADY ANTEBELLUM - Just A Kiss: 48.275 (- 0.677)
20. LMFAO - Party Rock Anthem: 48.016 (- 0.806)
DEV - In The Dark: 47.712 (- 0.776)
DRAKE - Make Me Proud f/Nicki Minaj: 47.127 (+ 0.446)
FOSTER THE PEOPLE - Pumped Up Kicks: 43.584 (- 0.725)
WALE - Lotus Flower Bomb f/Miguel: 44.694 (+ 0.475)
MARIAH CAREY - All I Want For Christmas Is...: 43.982 (- 0.213)
GAVIN DEGRAW - Not Over You: 42.659 (+ 0.433)
BEYONCE - Party f/Kanye & Andre: 41.859 (+ 0.226)
SELENA GOMEZ & THE SCENE: Love You Like A Love Song: 38.503 (+ 0.688)
ADELE - Set Fire To The Rain: 35.940 (+ 1.567)
RIHANNA - You Da One: 35.654 (- 0.010)
LADY GAGA - Marry The Night: 32.968 (+ 0.461)
JESSIE J - Domino: 28.233 (+ 0.618)
FRAY - Heartbeat: 25.149 (- 0.201)
COLDPLAY - Paradise: 20.756 (+ 0.029)
BREATHE CAROLINA - Blackout: 20.623 (+ 0.321)
MICHAEL BUBLE - All I Want For Christmas Is...: 15.274 (- 0.088)
BEYONCE - Love On Top: 12.015 (+ 0.048)
BEYONCE - Countdown: 9.811 (+ 0.284)
AVRIL LAVIGNE - Wish You Were Here: 9.754 (+ 0.205)
TAYLOR SWIFT - Ours: 8.723 (+ 0.681)
WILL. I. AM - T.H.E (The Hardest Ever): 4.044 (+ 0.227)
NICKI MINAJ - Roman In Moscow: 0.937 (- 0.105)
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Dec 16, 2011 6:46:55 GMT -5
Ask yourself would you be acting the same way if your fav was doing the same thing? If Rihanna and IDJ was this freakin' desperate for a #1 hit there's no way I would defend her for it. Move on to the next song, please. What's your opinion on Only Girl's discount or S&M (Remix featuring Britney Spears) then? |
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#LisaRinna
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#LiteralLegender
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Post by #LisaRinna on Dec 16, 2011 7:11:28 GMT -5
Even Mariah was never this desperate. She was never desperate to begin with. People like to blame her for having singles being sold for a lower price or whatever, but the point is it was her label, not her directly. And her label wasn't even the only one doing it. |
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vantiboy3
Platinum Member
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Post by vantiboy3 on Dec 16, 2011 8:02:43 GMT -5
the remix is not the one topping airplay charts. So it IS a marketing tactic and it boils down to chart manipulation.
She will not be known for those remixes being huge hits in decades to come. They're purpose is as clear as daylight: Manufactured hits to take advantage of download sales, and ultimately push the song to higher sales and chart positions.
And if no one besides pop forum users know about these marketing tactics, where do you think those huge sales for the remix comes from?
Come on son.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Dec 16, 2011 9:05:42 GMT -5
Mimi also gets a "bad rap" in terms of the charts/sales because of how she's gone on about them in voice messages, TV shows, etc. etc. Whether it was the label that instilled the interest in her, who knows- but she definitely has given the impression that they're VERY important to her (they're of interest to most acts, I'm sure, but her her level of interest is off dem charts. hehe)
As for "huge sales" for "remixes"- "Last Friday Night" didn't have huge sales from the Missy Elliott version- it was enough to get it to the top spot, so the label had a successful marketing maneuver. I don't think it's chart "manipulation"- no one's forcing anyone to buy a product, after all. Same for the dirt-cheap singles that Sony would sell on a regular basis- Sony wanted a chart position, so it sold the singles at very discounted prices- marketing. To some, it may be "manipulation," but, again, no one's forcing anyone to buy product that, in the end, they don't want. And we know that the Kanye West version of "E.T." was done right from the start of the single's run, so that was not a ploy. Therefore, just two of Perry's six singles from her album had these kinds of remix tactics to boost chart position.
Was the "S&M" "Rih-Mix" a ploy to get to No. 1? Without a doubt. And it worked.
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Post by @DiegoMarcondes_ on Dec 16, 2011 9:32:18 GMT -5
MORE MEDIABASE
RASCAL FLATTS -Easy= 42.972
LUKE BRYAN -I Don't Want This Night To End= 38.347 (+0.833)
THE BAND PERRY -All Your Life= 33.589 (+0.082)
KENNY CHESNEY -Reality= 29.944 (+0.092)
MARTINA MCBRIDE -I'm Gonna Love You Through It= 27.417 (+0.300)
COLBIE CAILLAT -Brighter Than The Sun= 27.172 (+0.091)
J. COLE -Can't Get Enough f/Trey Songz= 25.634 (+0.111)
KEITH URBAN- You Gonna Fly= 25.480 (+0.853)
PITBULL F/CHRIS BROWN – International Love= 24.186 (+0.247)
RICK ROSS -You The Boss f/Nicki Minaj= 22.864 (+0.307)
WIZ KHALIFA/SNOOP DOGG- Young, Wild & Free f/B. Mars= 21.457 (+0.741)
TOBY KEITH -Red Solo Cup= 21.314 (+0.290)
B.O.B -Strange Clouds f/Lil Wayne= 17.658 (-0.131)
YOUNG JEEZY -I Do f/JAY Z & Andre 3000 = 17244 (+0.755)
DRAKE- The Motto f/Lil Wayne= 16.661 (+0.677)
HOT CHELLE RAE -I Like It Like That f/New Boyz= 16.112 (+0.371)
OUTASIGHT- Tonight Is The Night= 13.786 (+0.094)
ROBIN THICKE - Love After War= 13.844 (+0.250)
BLACK KEYS - Lonely Boy= 13.669 (+0.129)
TYGA -Rack City= 12.532 (+0.337)
GYM CLASS HEROES -Ass Back Home= 11.526 (+0.439)
DRAKE- Take Care f/Rihanna= 10.530 (+0.226)
CHRIS BROW- Strip f/Kevin McCall= 10.474 (+0.515)
JAY Z & KANYE WEST - Gotta Have It= 9.449 (+0.164)
MARY J. BLIGE- Mr. Wrong= 9.048 (+0.272)
DAVID GUETTA - Turn Me On f/Nicki Minaj= 8.993 (+0.727)
FOO FIGHTERS- These Days = 8.780 (+0.075)
FAITH HILL- Come Home= 8.299 (+0.062)
CHRISTINA PERRI -A Thousand Years= 8.026 (+0.228)
ESTELLE -Thank You= 6.774 (+0.332)
LIL WAYNE -Mirror f/Bruno Mars= 6.724 (+0.009)
RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS-Monarchy Of Roses= 6.428 (+0.108)
MELANIE FIONA -4 AM= 6.259 (+0.170)
KARMIN -Crash Your Party= 5.791 (+0.092)
JUSTIN BIEBER/MARIAH CAREY -All I Want For Christmas Is...= 5.323 (+0.023)
RIHANNA- Talk That Talk f/Jay-Z= 5.050 (+0.048)
FOSTER THE PEOPLE -Don't Stop (Color On The Walls= 4.806 (+0.123)
ELLIE GOULDING -Lights= 4.605 (-0.082)
COLDPLAY -Princess Of China= 3.958 (+0.021)
MARIAH CAREY -When Christmas Comes= 3.738 (+0.130)
BIG TIME RUSH -Music Sounds Better With U= 3.580 (+0.088)
MIKE POSNER -Looks Like Sex= 3.409 (+0.191)
ROBIN THICKE -Pretty Lil' Heart f/Lil Wayne= 3.193 (+0.040)
TIM MCGRAW -Better Than I Used To Be= 3.154 (+0.220)
MIGUEL -Girls Like You= 2.927 (-0.058)
BUSTA RHYMES -Why Stop Now f/Chris Brown= 2.333 (+0.118)
JOJO -Disaster= 2.093 (+0.068)
COBRA STARSHIP - Middle Finger f/Mac Miller= 1.470 (+0.060)
LADY ANTEBELLUM -Dancin' Away With My Heart = 1.241 (+0.221)
KELLY CLARKSON - What Doesn't Kill You...= 1.039 (+0.002)
EVANESCENCE - My Heart Is Broken= 0.976 (+0.012)
NEON TREES -Everybody Talks= 0.711 (-0.012)
WALE -Slight Work f/Big Sean= 0.638
SEAN PAUL -She Doesn't Mind= 0.523 (-0.020)
KE$HA -Sleazy= 0.295 (+0.077)
ASHANTI -The Woman You Love f/Busta= 0.222 (+0.189)
WYNTER GORDON -Till Death= 0.188
MIRANDA LAMBERT -Over You= 0.154
BLAKE SHELTON -Drink On It= 0.147
DEV - Naked= 0.035 (+0.005)
T-PAIN - Turn All The Lights On f/ Ne-Yo = 0.029 (+0.006)
MILEY CYRUS -Liberty Walk= 0.024 (+0.002)
DEMI LOVATO -Give Your Heart A Break= 0.021
SLEIGH BELLS -Born To Lose= 0.004
SELENA GOMEZ & THE SCENE -Hit The Lights= 0.000 (POP 10 / MTV 3)
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HolidayGuy
Diamond Member
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Posts: 33,923
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Post by HolidayGuy on Dec 16, 2011 9:37:10 GMT -5
^Thanks much, Diego., I'm curious about Justin Bieber's "Mistletoe"- any numbers for that one?
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#LisaRinna
Diamond Member
#LiteralLegender
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 42,905
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Post by #LisaRinna on Dec 16, 2011 9:44:59 GMT -5
Mimi also gets a "bad rap" in terms of the charts/sales because of how she's gone on about them in voice messages, TV shows, etc. etc. Whether it was the label that instilled the interest in her, who knows- but she definitely has given the impression that they're VERY important to her (they're of interest to most acts, I'm sure) I believe they are of interest to any act (mainstream act at least). It's an impression anyway, like you said. |
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Post by Heartless Angel on Dec 16, 2011 9:51:32 GMT -5
Ask yourself would you be acting the same way if your fav was doing the same thing? If Rihanna and IDJ was this freakin' desperate for a #1 hit there's no way I would defend her for it. Move on to the next song, please. I wanna be able to say that, too...but it's Rihanna...I don't know if could! LOL |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2011 10:01:40 GMT -5
If Rihanna and IDJ was this freakin' desperate for a #1 hit there's no way I would defend her for it. Move on to the next song, please. What's your opinion on Only Girl's discount or S&M (Remix featuring Britney Spears) then? I dont think Dtm had a problem with this being discounted to be honest. I think him saying "this desperate" is about the fact that there BOTH a discount and rent-a-rapper remix for this one song. But anyways, I dont know why anyone even waste time defending it anyway. People are going to talk/discredit this months down the line regardless so if all that matters is if it gets to #1 then why would you care anyway? Spree has the best mindset out of the stans I've seen on this debate. Can we actually let her GET the #1 before we start whining about it (or conversely, feeling like we need to defend it)? If she 'only' peaks at #3 or whatever then all this gnashing of teeth is just going to look silly. too.  |
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dgarcia3377
Platinum Member
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Post by dgarcia3377 on Dec 16, 2011 10:17:44 GMT -5
Now I'm curious to see how far TOTGA will get on the billboard hot 100.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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All Lives Can’t Matter Until Black Lives Matter
Joined: February 2008
Posts: 18,438
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Dec 16, 2011 11:19:25 GMT -5
She's pathetic, and I pray her song doesn't hit number one... Could Katy be the new Mariah? :o Oh please. Mariah's label at the time, NOT Mariah herself, is only guilty of discounting 'Loverboy'. Which by the way, it wasn't the only song discounted at the time. So please don't compare. What Katy and Riri's team is doing is straight up manipulation, over and over again. |
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HolidayGuy
Diamond Member
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Post by HolidayGuy on Dec 16, 2011 12:35:06 GMT -5
^Probably talking about the Sony days, too, for which there have been articles on the discounting tactics (more than other labels). Island has supported download contests and such via the Mimi Daily fan site and such (i.e. "Win Dinner With Mimi" when "Shake it Off" was out), but those are low-key overall and have had minimal effect on the charts.
Once again, though, labels do not force consumers to buy product they don't want. I don't care if a remix is 1 cent, I'm not going to buy it if I don't want to.
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RockaByeBaby
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Joined: August 2008
Posts: 6,426
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Post by RockaByeBaby on Dec 16, 2011 12:36:24 GMT -5
KE$HA -Sleazy= 0.295 (+0.077)
:)
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2011 12:49:14 GMT -5
What's your opinion on Only Girl's discount or S&M (Remix featuring Britney Spears) then? I dont think Dtm had a problem with this being discounted to be honest. I think him saying "this desperate" is about the fact that there BOTH a discount and rent-a-rapper remix for this one song. But anyways, I dont know why anyone even waste time defending it anyway. People are going to talk/discredit this months down the line regardless so if all that matters is if it gets to #1 then why would you care anyway? Spree has the best mindset out of the stans I've seen on this debate. Can we actually let her GET the #1 before we start whining about it (or conversely, feeling like we need to defend it)? If she 'only' peaks at #3 or whatever then all this gnashing of teeth is just going to look silly. too. But what if the Brit/Rih didn't hit #1 right away...and they had to discount? I'm sure he and the rest of Rihanna stans wouldn't cry foul. I just can't at people throwing stones at glass houses. Rihanna did discounts and remix, GaGa get's dragged by people because of the album discount, Beyonce tact on Lady G to video phone in hopes of getting a hit out of it, Britney did the remix, Mariah has done price slashing. You'd think thoes stans would understand...... So it's ok to do it once(or twice in RiRi's case with OG discount and S&M remix)but if you do it more than that or do both the remix/discount it isn't? If Billboard get's pissed they will make a rule where remixes won't count, until then it's fair game regardless. BEYONCE - Countdown: 9.811 (+ 0.284) and yay at COuntdown coming back from the dead. Thank God for Urban this era  |
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slw84
7x Platinum Member
I only tolerate legends
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Posts: 7,897
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Post by slw84 on Dec 16, 2011 12:55:06 GMT -5
Could Katy be the new Mariah? :o Oh please. Mariah's label at the time, NOT Mariah herself, is only guilty of discounting 'Loverboy'. Which by the way, it wasn't the only song discounted at the time. So please don't compare. What Katy and Riri's team is doing is straight up manipulation, over and over again. Sony sources spoke out against Mariah at her low point revealing that they would wait until her song reaches top 15/10 in airplay and repressed the singles and added remixes to ensure top 5/1 placement. But, it's not illegal...most of the big stars of 80s 90s etc. have used some tactic. The charts are a game...deal with it. |
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2011 13:13:34 GMT -5
I dont think Dtm had a problem with this being discounted to be honest. I think him saying "this desperate" is about the fact that there BOTH a discount and rent-a-rapper remix for this one song. But anyways, I dont know why anyone even waste time defending it anyway. People are going to talk/discredit this months down the line regardless so if all that matters is if it gets to #1 then why would you care anyway? Spree has the best mindset out of the stans I've seen on this debate. This too. But what if the Brit/Rih didn't hit #1 right away...and they had to discount? I'm sure he and the rest of Rihanna stans wouldn't cry foul. I just can't at people throwing stones at glass houses. Rihanna did discounts and remix, GaGa get's dragged by people because of the album discount, Beyonce tact on Lady G to video phone in hopes of getting a hit out of it, Britney did the remix, Mariah has done price slashing. You'd think thoes stans would understand...... So it's ok to do it once(or twice in RiRi's case with OG discount and S&M remix)but if you do it more than that or do both the remix/discount it isn't? If Billboard get's pissed they will make a rule where remixes won't count, until then it's fair game regardless. BEYONCE - Countdown: 9.811 (+ 0.284) and yay at COuntdown coming back from the dead. Thank God for Urban this era Well yeah I'm definitely not saying it's "unfair" or anything like that, it's not against Billboard's policy so by all means these labels better manipulate the hell out of all the loopholes and use every possible measure to get the #1. It's just funny to me to see all these tactics that arose this year applied to one single. 2011 will be the year that brought back these sort of moves and I'm sure artists in the future will start adopting them (unless Billboard changes the rule which I think they might). I'm guessing if the B.O.B remix doesn't work then next week they'll discount it, then if that doesn't work they'll tac on 2 more rappers ala "Sleazy", and if that doesn't work then they'll discount it that the next week. It's pure comedy but it's sort of good seeing labels do things that stans have been saying for years, whether controversial or not. All I'm saying is that I completely understood what Dtm was talking about. I think the majority of people who are critiquing the Bob remix now probably didn't mind the initial $0.69 discount that much. |
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Dec 16, 2011 13:13:57 GMT -5
Of course it's not illegal- and if anyone wants to call it manipulation, that's their prerogative. It's simply having more of an interest in the charts and playing the game as best they can to achieve maximum results.
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Scotty
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Post by Scotty on Dec 16, 2011 13:16:40 GMT -5
BEYONCE - Countdown: 9.811 (+ 0.284) and yay at COuntdown coming back from the dead. Thank God for Urban this era I need to stress how much I support this iconic, very special track off of one of the best albums (IMO) of the past few years. I was never a fan of Queen B until this era, actually. It's not likely at all at this point, but I really want Countdown to be a hit. It should have been the lead single. |
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Post by Heartless Angel on Dec 16, 2011 13:35:11 GMT -5
I don't know if it should've been the lead single but I could have seen it be a very successful 3rd single if EOT had been released as the lead. This in turn would've have made BTINH smash more, leading into Countdown smashing.
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