Hot 100 Re-entries

[Deleted]

For example

Hallelujah would another

Over The Rainbow would be another

[neverduplicated]

Feb 26, 2012 15:25:04 GMT -5 @2m said:

It is not airplay that will bring these songs back to the top 50, it will be sales. Several times a year in past Idol seasons we have watched original versions of songs performed by contestants on Idol soar up the itunes.

Perhaps I stand corrected. In my selective memory, I didn't remember many instances in which older songs were so high up in the digital songs rankings that they would've been able to make top 50 with almost no airplay. Although I do still think it's not true that older songs will re-enter "every time" they are performed on TV. It will still be quite a rare occurrence.

[Deleted]

LOL - I may have overstated the phrase "every time", However I don't think it is going to be rare though. I think we could see several occurrences a year

We already have had 4 (granted all tied to one event)

The Superbowl would have generated one or two others

The Idol season is likely good for 2 or 3 (or more)

The Voice

Even Glee possibly

And other "Made for TV" events that I am not remembering

[guyl44]

True. There will be many more appearances of older songs charting thanks to sudden spikes in exposure and interest, whether it be death-related, TV or just pop culture moments. We're just gonna have to get used to it, I guess... And on the subject of Christmas songs- I think they should chart, but honestly I don't see how Mariah would get another #1. AIWFCIY is popular alright, every year, but I don't think it will be popular enough to top the chart.
Anyways, this is futile since there's no official word from BB about seasonal recordings.

[Deleted]

FIT FOR A KING

Hi Gary,

I was wondering if there's any way of knowing (or guessing) how well Michael Jackson's songs would've done on the Hot 100 had they been allowed to re-chart following his death, the way Whitney Houston's songs have.

I know quite a few of them got a huge boost in both airplay and sales.

Thanks,

Chuck Schilken
Los Angeles, California


Hi Chuck,

We can know for sure, looking at the Hot 100 and its recurrent chart following his passing.

The charts dated July 11, 2009, most sharply reflected the increased downloads and airplay of his songs after his June 25, 2009, death. That chart week, Jackson or Jackson 5 songs amazingly commanded the top 19 slots on the Hot 100's recurrent chart.

By looking at the points of then-current and catalog songs the week of July 11, 2009, here is where Jackson, and the Jackson 5, would've ranked on the Hot 100 if non-currents were then allowed to chart:

No. 5, "Billie Jean"
No. 6, "Thriller"
No. 7, "Man in the Mirror"
No. 12, "The Way You Make Me Feel"
No. 13, "Beat It"
No. 14, "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough"
No. 18, "P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing)"
No. 24, "Smooth Criminal"
No. 26, "Black or White"

No. 27, "Rock With You"
No. 28, "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' "
No. 33, "Bad"
No. 40, "Human Nature"
No. 41, "You Are Not Alone"
No. 42, "I'll Be There" (Jackson 5)
No. 44, "Remember the Time"
No. 48, "ABC" (Jackson 5)

Whereas four Houston songs rank on this week's Hot 100, Jackson would've appeared on 17 songs the week of July 11, 2009 - 15 solo, two with the Jackson 5 - had catalog songs then been allowed to re-enter. (Those 15 solo titles, in fact, would've pushed Jackson past the Beatles (14; April 11, 1964) for the most chart entries on the Hot 100 by an act in a week).

While Jackson's songs did not return to the Hot 100 that week, consumer response to his passing spurred dialog and analysis that led to Billboard revamping the Billboard 200 four months later (Dec. 5, 2009, the beginning of the 2010 chart year) to include all albums regardless of age to appear on the survey.

Following that change in album chart policy, it became logical to include songs of all eras to chart on the Hot 100, as well (if ranking in the top 50), leading to Houston's quartet of '80s/'90s hits ranking on the tally this week.

While he did not grace the Hot 100 with his classics following his death, Jackson served as a trailblazer posthumously, paving the way for classic songs to reappear on the chart going forward.

[Deleted]

We will add this to the running list

[HolidayGuy]

Unlike the Billboard 200, where catalog albums have seen new peaks and enjoyed decent additions to their runs, we probably won't see too much of that on the Hot 100 in regards to older titles. The new rule will add 1-2 weeks to a re-entry's run in most cases (probably three weeks for "I Will Always Love You").

[Deleted]

Feb 27, 2012 12:27:26 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

Unlike the Billboard 200, where catalog albums have seen new peaks and enjoyed decent additions to their runs, we probably won't see too much of that on the Hot 100 in regards to older titles. The new rule will add 1-2 weeks to a re-entry's run in most cases (probably three weeks for "I Will Always Love You").

The whole reason I started this thread is right here. I want to test that theory

[HolidayGuy]

^Indeed. :)

Not knowing the rule for seasonal titles as of yet (I don't think Billboard's decided), the top performers would rack up a bit more (4 weeks).

[neverduplicated]

Feb 27, 2012 12:51:00 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

^Indeed. :)

Not knowing the rule for seasonal titles as of yet (I don't think Billboard's decided), the top performers would rack up a bit more (4 weeks).

I think that if AIWFCIY had been allowed to rechart every year, it could get about 4-5 weeks per year, perhaps? It could've possibly had 30-35 weeks on the Hot 100 by now, with plenty more to come.

[jebsib]

Wild Michael Jackson list.

SO funny that all the most popular 'Rock Era' artists have 'phantom hits' that either slightly - or majorly - 'distort' their Hot 100 point totals:

Elvis - Most of his biggest hits predate the Hot 100
Beatles - Dozens of unreleased songs that became huge 'hits'
Madonna - Obviously 'Into the Groove', but other songs like 'Gambler' and 'Spotlight' were big in their time
Elton John - Pinball Wizard
Stevie Wonder - Isn't She Lovely
Mariah - All I Want for Christmas, numerous airplay-onlys
Janet - Numerous airplay-onlys
Michael - All of the above posthumous hits

[jdanton2]

Also many Christmas songs were not allowed to chart from sometime in the early 1960's till the mid 1970's.

[stetz]

What about the random contemporary, but still recurrent, songs that have re-entered as exceptions in the past few years? Little Lion Man and Brighter than the Sun come to mind right away. I suppose these would fall into the inevitably growing list of Hot 100 re-entries.

[HolidayGuy]

Michael Jackson's posthumous hits, though, charted on the Hot 100, so he didn't really lose anything in terms of points.

"Into the Groove" is the only big hit that was released on a commercial single in the USA at the time it was on the charts. Billboard had iffy rules at the time (or perhaps the record label requested it not chart the track- it never sent it out to radio, after all; radio took it upon itself to play it, and it went top 10 in airplay). The 12-inch shipped/sold more than 600,000 units, topping Variety's singles sales chart for six weeks (charting separately from "Angel").

Yes- Billboard had a Christmas chart, so Christmas tracks were excluded from the Hot 100. Holiday hits like "Merry Christmas Darling" and "Step Into Christmas" had commercial single releases, but were sent to to the Christmas chart.

That's right, neverdup- but that's one of the reasons I think holiday tracks may be excluded from the new rule. It would be the same handful of tracks taking up space annually- Billboard did create the Holiday Hot 100 to track those songs' chart success. As it is, holiday music already impacts currents' airplay for several weeks- and Billboard may leave it just as it is.

[bigfan101]

The band Perry - if I die young

[Francesa On The FAN]

What about major hits that haven't spent 20 weeks on the Hot 100? Will they be allowed to reenter the lower part of the chart? Will some top 5 hit from the mid 70s that spent 15 weeks on the chart be allowed to re-enter at #91 if it resurfaces in an ad or something?

[imbondz]

Feb 27, 2012 18:47:44 GMT -5 Francesa On The FAN said:

What about major hits that haven't spent 20 weeks on the Hot 100? Will they be allowed to reenter the lower part of the chart? Will some top 5 hit from the mid 70s that spent 15 weeks on the chart be allowed to re-enter at #91 if it resurfaces in an ad or something?

LOL

i've read this whole thread, and i'm thinking, ok I think we've exhausted all the questions. then I read yours. great question and hilarious!

[Deleted]

The answer is no, thosemust reach #50 also

[Francesa On The FAN]

So basically the Hot 100 will be about as accurate as it was in the 70s and 80s. Things do have a way of coming full circle I guess.

[Deleted]

How accurate was that? A sampling of playlsts and record stores?

Pick the wrong sample, you have acompletely different #1

[KeepDeanWeird]

The charts pre-1990s were a joke. All you need to do is look at the album charts. Funny how country albums were pushed way low until SoundScan. Wasn't it odd, that basically Dark Side of the Moon was the only catalog album that stayed on the BB200.

The singles charts were an even bigger joke. Songs would move up 10 spots at a time until the reached the Top 50, then everything was four or two as you got higher up. Billboard even had the silly rule where a song "froze" it's chart position when it lost it's bullet, except 1) if it was number 1 or if it moved up a spot. So basically if a song was #9, then the next week it was #16, Billboard kept it frozen at number 9. (That rule was changed some time in the 80s.)

Additionally, stations were self-reporting, they would create their own Top 30 or 40 charts and submit to Billboard, but you weren't comparing apples to apples. For example, the Top 40 station in St. Louis mentioned their list was a compilation of radio and sales from stores in the area. (So sales were counted twice.)

While no system is perfect, at least we have raw data to work with now - we know sales and airplay - Billboard chooses how to weigh those. It wasn't that long ago that Billboard arbitrarily counted digital sales 2:1 over airplay and then they changed the ratio to make it more even. I wouldn't be surprised if we see another adjustment in the next couple of years as airplay numbers continue to drop and digital sales continue to increase.

Glad I got that off my chest.... but I'll always be a numbers/chart freak.

[imbondz]

Soundscan was the best thing that happened to the charts imo. There's no telling how many labels paid to have a #1 song back then. Not that it couldn't happen these days, but much more difficult without a million people knowing about it.

[suth]

I've often wondered about how dramatically different the chart patterns were over the years. Some of it could be attributed to industry factors---how many songs labels promoted and how fast the turnaround was, how much competition there was, whether there was a "Saturday Night Fever"-style phenomenon going on. But it's always been really strange to see just how different the cycles were with their contracting and expanding over different time periods: the blink-and-you-missed-it brief runs of the mid-60s and late 80s, the longer and more lingering runs of the late 70s and early 80s, and the epically long post-Soundscan ones, especially in the late 90s. (Cases like "I Just Want to Be Your Everything," "Le Freak," and "Another One Bites the Dust" wouldn't be all that out of place today, actually.)

But I first started paying attention to the charts (and I'll date myself here) in 1988, which was right in the middle of that period from 1984 to 1991 when 1) no song spent longer than four weeks at number one, 2) no song spent more than ten weeks in the top 10, 3) only two songs ("Bust a Move" and "From a Distance") spent more than 18 weeks in the top 40, 4) rebounds were extremely rare and never, ever happened with #1 songs, and 5) no song went to #1 from outside the top 5. So when Soundscan first came along, it was kind of baffling just because it was so different, but it also coincided with the shift away from 45s and the push to sell CDs instead, along with the growing gap between what sold copies and what got played on the radio with the rise in top 40-unfriendly rap music. So it was difficult to tease apart how much of it was due to bogus reporting and adherence to irrational chart "rules," and how much of it was just a sign of the times.

To be honest, the post-iTunes charts kind of put me off at first. It still kind of bugs that so many records get what seems like an unnaturally high peak just because of that initial sales rush. But what can I say? I was raised on orderly pyramids.

[HolidayGuy]

The good thing about the pre-BDS/-SoundScan-era charts was that tracks didn't linger forever. In general, they were quick-moving charts, which made it exciting.

The thing with how Billboard compiled the airplay and salers charts were that the No. 1 radio track or seller could have sold less than No. 2, No. 3, etc.- and that goes for any position, really. Singles received a set number of points for their rankings on a playlist or top-seller list, so there were no hard airplay or sales figures in the mix. But, the technology wasn't in place, so it was the best we could have.

[Deleted]

Accuracy in charts is a good thing

The "unnaturally high" peak positions are what they are.

If a song ends up being #3 for the week because people are rushing to buy it and then it is #42 the next week so what?

In a weekly chart it was still #3 for the week (in this example)

[jebsib]

Hated the BDS Soundscan era at first. Such a jarring changed. REALLY hated the way the charts were screwed up when labels tampered with commercial singles (withholding in the mid 90s / completely deleting the format in the early 2000s).

But, you're right - now it is the most accurate of any point in history.

[imbondz]

Feb 29, 2012 10:21:11 GMT -5 jebsib said:

Hated the BDS Soundscan era at first. Such a jarring changed. REALLY hated the way the charts were screwed up when labels tampered with commercial singles (withholding in the mid 90s / completely deleting the format in the early 2000s).

But, you're right - now it is the most accurate of any point in history.

totally agree. I hated it at first. I remember the song 'Romantic' by Karyn White was #1, then once the new Soundscan charts were released, 'Set Adrift On Memory Bliss' by PM Dawn was all of a sudden #1. But they also showed the previous 2 weeks on the soundscan chart and it had been #1 then too. Romantic was all the way out of the top 10 or something. Very odd at the time. Made me wonder how Romantic got to #1 in the first place

[imbondz]

just for fun I googled it and got this from Wikipedia:

Set A Drift On Memory Bliss by PM Dawn was the group's first (and only) #1 hit on the Billboard Hot 100, and also reached #3 in the United Kingdom. The song was the first number one song after the debut of the Nielsen SoundScan system, which monitored airplay and sales more closely than before when Billboard had to rely on humans to report sales and airplay data. According to the test charts of the SoundScan system, "Set Adrift on Memory Bliss" was at number one for at least three weeks, but officially has a one-week reign at number one.

[Francesa On The FAN]

Feb 27, 2012 13:31:23 GMT -5 jebsib said:

SO funny that all the most popular 'Rock Era' artists have 'phantom hits' that either slightly - or majorly - 'distort' their Hot 100 point totals:


Elton John - Pinball Wizard

As a wee tot I can also remember:

Funeral For A Friend/Love Lies Bleeding
Candle In The Wind
Harmony
Skyline Pigeon

All played decently on Top 40 at the time.

[renfield75]

"Daydream Believer" is already back in the iTunes Top 100...we could be seeing another death-fueled re-entry sooner than we thought. I think this would make "Daydream Believer" the first number one song to get three runs with the original recording (the original, the '86 re-release, and now).