hazuki
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Post by hazuki on Jun 15, 2011 14:14:08 GMT -5
Circadian is an amazing song! love all the others too
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Post by Feelin'.$$$hady on Jun 15, 2011 15:49:32 GMT -5
meh :/
Time marches on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest. It's the only one that have melody and hook strong enough that i remembered it after the song finished and wanted to listen to it again. The rest is same-y, generic and even kinda hookless?
The Daily Anthem+Permanent>>>>>>>>>>>>>>these songs
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Streets Ahead
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Once the sun rises it's out of my hands.
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Post by Streets Ahead on Jun 15, 2011 16:09:07 GMT -5
Love all the songs so far.
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idolman88
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Post by idolman88 on Jun 15, 2011 18:28:38 GMT -5
meh :/ Time marches on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest. It's the only one that have melody and hook strong enough that i remembered it after the song finished and wanted to listen to it again. The rest is same-y, generic and even kinda hookless? The Daily Anthem+Permanent>>>>>>>>>>>>>>these songs I really disagree with this assessment, but we can agree to disagree.
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Rumors
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Post by Rumors on Jun 15, 2011 18:49:26 GMT -5
Well, I thought David might have something but I'm just not feeling his music or his performance. Everything is a bit too perfect in the Soundcheck performance. There's not much there that stands out. His band his okay but you can tell that he really doesn't have A-list players...hard for a new artist to afford them I'm sure.
I will agree that Paper Hearts is a stronger song than the current single but everything sounds so 90s MOR rock as mentioned above by someone. Think 3DD with weaker songs and not quite as hard. I'm not sure there's much than David can do at this point. His core fans will be happy with the new music but I can't see it having a very wide appeal at this point in time. So I just hope his fanbase is strong enough to keep him on the road and releasing new music. I feel confident that this was the music David wanted to make so it is what it is.
I might make one suggestion to David...drop the quitar some and move around the stage. Maybe he does this at his shows. I don't know. But I do think he needs to engage his audience better. It's not like he's a guitar legend in the making...i.e., John Mayer. He needs to take some cues from performers like Rob Thomas and be a little more emotional and engaging up there. I got bored pretty fast watching those video clips. He can hit the singing notes too but it's all just a bit too perfect. I don't know if they were using autotune on him and the band or not but it didn't sound very live to me. A little imperfection goes a long way sometimes.
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Streets Ahead
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Once the sun rises it's out of my hands.
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Post by Streets Ahead on Jun 15, 2011 22:23:02 GMT -5
His band his okay but you can tell that he really doesn't have A-list players...hard for a new artist to afford them I'm sure. His lead guitar player Neil is a beast. Luckily for Dave he and Neil are friends cause I think this guy could be playing with some of the best out there if he wanted. I mean the guy is incredible and I'm not easily impressed with lead guitarists (especially nowadays).
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greenlight
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Post by greenlight on Jun 16, 2011 6:16:38 GMT -5
HAC: 40 38 DAVID COOK Last Goodbye 430 391 39 1.116 +6 Spins -4 Bullet -0.028 AI
The album climbed from #258 yesterday to #53 on Amazon, probably thanks to the Walmart soundcheck.
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greenlight
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Post by greenlight on Jun 17, 2011 6:47:06 GMT -5
HAC: 41 38 DAVID COOK Last Goodbye 434 394 40 1.095 +4 Spins +1 Bullet -0.021 AI
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Post by perfectsmile on Jun 17, 2011 18:07:25 GMT -5
I hope we are going to get some snippets or stream for the album somewhere soon. CD instrumentation could be way different than YTs. :)
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fluffyb
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Post by fluffyb on Jun 17, 2011 18:42:23 GMT -5
HAC: 40 38 DAVID COOK Last Goodbye 430 391 39 1.116 +6 Spins -4 Bullet -0.028 AI The album climbed from #258 yesterday to #53 on Amazon, probably thanks to the Walmart soundcheck. It is at #78 right now. I have to say that I'm surprised that it is not in top 10. I thought he has a big, devoted fanbase.
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greenlight
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Post by greenlight on Jun 18, 2011 6:30:31 GMT -5
HAC: 41 38 DAVID COOK Last Goodbye 442 396 46 1.157 +8 Spins +6 Bullet +0.062 AI
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trei1658
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Post by trei1658 on Jun 18, 2011 10:12:10 GMT -5
VH1 Top 20 Music Video Countdown: 06.18.11 #17 David Cook “The Last Goodbye” [1|17] [DEBUT] 1st time since 08.29.2009
David Cook's interview was shown & gets a plug for his album from Jim Shearer at the end of the show.
DAVID COOK “The Last Goodbye” music video has been moved up to Medium rotation by VH1.
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overboard
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Post by overboard on Jun 18, 2011 15:34:32 GMT -5
Despite the VH1 appearance, the song is still no where to be found in the iTunes top 1000.
This song is not bad enough to be getting the complete non-existent reaction it seems to be getting. Its almost as if Cook went door to door to every single fan that bought his debut album and punched them in the face.
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keepitreal
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Post by keepitreal on Jun 18, 2011 18:36:41 GMT -5
I was almost sure that if anything the premiere of this video on VH1 would get it moving up on iTunes. I don't believe Cook has moved beyond the Idol bubble. Whatever casual fans he picked up from the sales of his 1st album has moved on. Cook hit platinum within 3-4 months from when the confetti got dropped on him. I believe all those sales came from hardcore Idol fans and idol fans who remembered him once the album dropped. I call these the souvenir albums. The additional 300,000 sales were from outside the idol bubble music buyers. Idol fans are very fickle. They watch the show for pure entertainment only and once the show is over they move on to the next season and only the hardcore fans are left. It is not a bad thing but it is why I have a hard time putting much into when an Idol reaches platinum so quickly. (See some past Idol winners and runner ups). It is always better to get the bulk of your sales after the honeymoon is over and keep those fans. Whatever momentum Cook had after the show was wasted. I don't know if the label saw him as a quick cash cow milking Idol fans but they never really held him up in the past 2-3yrs as one of their "star" artists. I'm not convinced that the promo he is getting now is more than the basic promo that most artist they have that isn't their top priority. I think had they put any muscle behind this video VH1 would have put it straight to their "Large" or "Gung Ho' rotation rather than the "on" one their lowest rotation possible. If the label had any faith that this video would do it's job it would have. I can't remember the last time an ex-idol premiered on VH1 and didn't crack iTunes 1000 overall. Cook doesn't have the "it" factor nor does he have the "fire in the belly" in selling himself and his music just isn't current enough but there is always an audience for the post grunge type of music he does. I see him as an artist who will sell reasonably well, headline small venues, open for other acts and do what I think he ultimately likes to do and that is just tour. I don't think he wants to do the hard work that it takes to be a major "star" but as long as he does enough to get a 3rd album than I would call that successful.
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Post by MostInterestingManInTheWorld on Jun 18, 2011 21:11:33 GMT -5
Cook is yesterday's news, everyone. Move on. If you like him, buy the music and listen to it, but don't expect that radio is automatically going to kowtow to him.
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greenlight
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Post by greenlight on Jun 19, 2011 3:18:36 GMT -5
Despite the VH1 appearance, the song is still no where to be found in the iTunes top 1000. This song is not bad enough to be getting the complete non-existent reaction it seems to be getting. Its almost as if Cook went door to door to every single fan that bought his debut album and punched them in the face. It got a boost but its position was originally so low that it didn't make it go very far. It moved up from #600+ on iTunes POP to #400. And also the Deluxe album went from #833 to #135 on Amazon. So there was some reaction, albeit small, he is not completely non-existent. Also, it is likely that TLG will get another boost from today airing of the VH1 countdown, and it may reach the iTunes general chart. The video has also been moved to medium rotation. That said, these are very modest gains, and how much this is going to help is anyone's guess. I don't think he wants to do the hard work that it takes to be a major "star" but as long as he does enough to get a 3rd album than I would call that successful. I don't think that he wants to be a star, he is is musician who wants to make a living out of music, and this is what he is prepared to put the hard work in for. I think that his problem is that his own musical taste doesn't veer towards commercial music, and he has to heavily compromise between his own wishes and RCA's demands. Sunday update: HAC: 38 39 DAVID COOK Last Goodbye 444 408 36 1.167 +2 Spins -10 Bullet +0.01 AI
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rosemoor
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Post by rosemoor on Jun 19, 2011 7:44:51 GMT -5
Actually his taste is very middle of the road, even his pre-idol music lacks any quirky indie flavor. His problem is that unlike Daughtry, he can't write radio-friendly hooks.
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rosemoor
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Post by rosemoor on Jun 19, 2011 7:51:38 GMT -5
Cook is yesterday's news, everyone. Move on. If you like him, buy the music and listen to it, but don't expect that radio is automatically going to kowtow to him. That seems the norm for the majority of idols, especially male idols.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Jun 19, 2011 13:36:10 GMT -5
I think the problem is that most commercial songwriters write pop, not rock - if you want to have rock edge, fine, but like Chris Daughtry, you have to be able to write your own stuff (and you pretty much have to join a band)
Most pop songwriters out there write for females - I feel like that's the way it's pretty much always been - so putting through all these male idols that can't write is basically a waste of time IMO
How many male pop/rock solo artists can you guys think of that don't write their own stuff? (Even in the past three decades) - almost every male solo artist I can think of is a singer/songwriter
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Hook
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Post by Hook on Jun 19, 2011 15:30:35 GMT -5
^ Umm I'm not sure what your point is. David Cook DOES write his own songs. He wrote almost every song on his first album, and though I haven't seen a track list that shows the writers, I would bet he wrote most or all of his new album, including this single.
Lee and Kris also co-wrote almost their entire albums. So there hasn't been a problem with the past few male Idols not writing their own music. The only problem is when the label won't let them do it.
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HereIsGone
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Post by HereIsGone on Jun 19, 2011 15:57:27 GMT -5
^ Umm I'm not sure what your point is. David Cook DOES write his own songs. He wrote almost every song on his first album, and though I haven't seen a track list that shows the writers, I would bet he wrote most or all of his new album, including this single. Lee and Kris also co-wrote almost their entire albums. So there hasn't been a problem with the past few male Idols not writing their own music. The only problem is when the label won't let them do it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Cook_(album)#Track_listingOnly one song on the debut was written without the help of collaborators. What atlantaboy means is that it'll be harder for him to have any kind of rock edge if he can't write strong songs on his own. I mean, the vast majority of all the rock-leaning collaborators on there are from actual rock bands, not writers for hire like the rest are.
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overboard
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Post by overboard on Jun 19, 2011 16:07:18 GMT -5
I think the problem is that most commercial songwriters write pop, not rock - if you want to have rock edge, fine, but like Chris Daughtry, you have to be able to write your own stuff (and you pretty much have to join a band) But this is a pop-leaning song cowritten by a well-known writer of pop songs and by Cook himself. Also, Cook has been working consistently with the same band. Just because he didnt rename his band to Cook doesnt mean they arent a band. But the problem here isnt that Cook didnt write it or that they didnt get a pop writer to contribute to it, but that the end product just wasnt good enough. Think you are looking a little too much into it. They laid an egg and the public has called them out on it. Also, some people thought that Cook was above the "Sophomore slump" where Idol fans forget about you, but it turns out he might be its biggest victim.
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Hook
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Post by Hook on Jun 19, 2011 16:18:27 GMT -5
Only one song on the debut was written without the help of collaborators. What atlantaboy means is that it'll be harder for him to have any kind of rock edge if he can't write strong songs on his own. I mean, the vast majority of all the rock-leaning collaborators on there are from actual rock bands, not writers for hire like the rest are. Well, that one song proves that he is capable of it. lol That's actually one of my top favourites on the album, A Daily Anthem. I don't think working with co-writers is necessarily a negative. The label probably wanted him to, rather than writing solely on his own. It just depends which writers he works with. Clearly his collaboration with Ryan Tedder didn't turn out all that well, but that doesn't mean others wouldn't.
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HereIsGone
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Post by HereIsGone on Jun 19, 2011 16:22:51 GMT -5
Only one song on the debut was written without the help of collaborators. What atlantaboy means is that it'll be harder for him to have any kind of rock edge if he can't write strong songs on his own. I mean, the vast majority of all the rock-leaning collaborators on there are from actual rock bands, not writers for hire like the rest are. Well, that one song proves that he is capable of it. lol That's actually one of my top favourites on the album, A Daily Anthem. I don't think working with co-writers is necessarily a negative. The label probably wanted him to, rather than writing solely on his own. It just depends which writers he works with. Clearly his collaboration with Ryan Tedder didn't turn out all that well, but that doesn't mean others wouldn't. Just because you can do it once doesn't mean you can do it consistently, which is the goal. Nothing against the odd collaboration to expand your horizons a little but if a huge amount of your work has to be co-written...then, I'm sorry, but that indicates weakness. Obviously we'd have to see the listing for his second album to see if it was just RCA stuffing his debut up, but I'm betting a huge chunk of it has co-writes. Edit - If wiki is to be believed, looks like I'm right on that one.
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overboard
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Post by overboard on Jun 19, 2011 17:14:20 GMT -5
I hope you are not serious about this. You think that not writing a song by yourself shows... weakness? Plenty of artists get co-writers for their album. Daughtry is being used as an example of what Cook "should be", but on Daughtry's last album there was only a single song written only by him. There is nothing wrong with getting collaborators, even for rock acts.
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HereIsGone
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Post by HereIsGone on Jun 19, 2011 17:25:39 GMT -5
I hope you are not serious about this. You think that not writing a song by yourself shows... weakness? Plenty of artists get co-writers for their album. Daughtry is being used as an example of what Cook "should be", but on Daughtry's last album there was only a single song written only by him. There is nothing wrong with getting collaborators, even for rock acts. Most of the bands I listen to don't have a lot of co-writes (and by that I mean, when you get people outside of the band) so yes, I'm serious. Not that it takes anything away from the end result, it just means you need help in the songwriting department.
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keepitreal
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Post by keepitreal on Jun 19, 2011 17:58:03 GMT -5
I don't agree with your idea that co-writing indicates weakness. The open secret in the music industry is that most artists do NOT write their own music 100%. The very few that actually does are probably not getting a lot of commercial success either. There is nothing wrong with co-writing to learn the craft. Most of our rock and pop legends co-written their music. The general public cares little about who writes, co-writes or doesn't write their own music as long as they are putting out good music that hooks them in. What really grates my nerves is that the whole idea that singer songwriters that play their own instruments are some kind of artistic musical genius. No. If your writing crappy songs your writing crappy songs. I don't think Cook label forced him to write a pop leaning song because Cook said himself said he wanted to try something more upbeat from his typical angst songs. It just failed because the song just isn't good, hooky enough. Cooks main problem is his type of music just isn't current enough. There are a lot of good alt/rock music out there but they are current. Even his image doesn't scream "rockstar" to me.
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Rumors
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Post by Rumors on Jun 19, 2011 18:00:14 GMT -5
I have to agree with the Hereisgone. I do expect my singer/songerwriters to primarily be able to write alone. I've talked about this same issue many times on this board before. Some agree with that statement while many others don't. I know you can find rock stars that don't write everything (Steven Tyler) but for the most part you have to to do get much cred with me. Otherwise, your just a pop or country star where not writing your own material is standard practice.
Then there's the question or being a writer and being a successful writer. Cook hasn't proved he can even co-write a hit never mind write one solo. Same goes with Daughtry. I know I measure everyone up to Rob Thomas but he was just recently was asked if MB20 would consider having any co-writers. His answer was why would he...he got into music int the first place because he had to write.
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HereIsGone
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Post by HereIsGone on Jun 19, 2011 18:20:39 GMT -5
I don't agree with your idea that co-writing indicates weakness. The open secret in the music industry is that most artists do NOT write their own music 100%. The very few that actually does are probably not getting a lot of commercial success either. There is nothing wrong with co-writing to learn the craft. Most of our rock and pop legends co-written their music. The general public cares little about who writes, co-writes or doesn't write their own music as long as they are putting out good music that hooks them in. What really grates my nerves is that the whole idea that singer songwriters that play their own instruments are some kind of artistic musical genius. No. If your writing crappy songs your writing crappy songs. I don't think Cook label forced him to write a pop leaning song because Cook said himself said he wanted to try something more upbeat from his typical angst songs. It just failed because the song just isn't good, hooky enough. Cooks main problem is his type of music just isn't current enough. There are a lot of good alt/rock music out there but they are current. Even his image doesn't scream "rockstar" to me. I never said it had to be 100%. Where are you getting that from? I even said it's good to get out of your songwriting box once in awhile and experiment with different writers. Not to mention pop shouldn't ever be compared to rock in most instances because people's expectations are vastly different. I don't expect any pop songs to be written by the popstars themselves and that's the general rule of thumb for most productions. Whereas rock and alternative tend to have a fair amount of bands who write most of their stuff on their own, give or take a few collabs. Nevertheless, when you consistently can't write or choose not to write virtually anything on your own then I say you're not the greatest or the most comfortable at the songwriting element. Like, if Cook's upcoming second album had a lot less co-writes this time around, then I wouldn't think anything of him using a bunch the first go around to get his bearings. The fact that nearly nothing is written by himself and his backing band tells me a lot right there. Also, I didn't say the songs are crap if you can't write on your own. Crap songs are crap songs regardless of who did them. The only difference is the amount of people who should be hanging their heads in shame for such duds. The reverse also obviously applies to good songs too.
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keepitreal
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Post by keepitreal on Jun 19, 2011 18:24:46 GMT -5
Rob Thomas became a household name because his music crossed over. It was accessible enough to appeal to more than his genre of music. The fact that he writes his own music is a plus but take your example of someone like Steven Tyler who has a 40yr career it isn't the be all of all. There are some people that only listens to artists that write their own music but it doesn't represent the majority of the music buying public who only wants good music rather they write it or not. The advantage to writing or co-writing your own music just puts more money in your pocket.
Sorry HereIsGone but I think the word "weakness" is too strong of a word and unfair but I agree with you on this:
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