Current state of the Hot AC format

[marv1978]

Sept 9, 2010 17:41:52 GMT -5 Rumors said:

I listen to a medium market Clear Channel Hot AC. I few weeks they have been running ads that at 7:00pm listen in to hear all the current hits. They then play pieces of songs by BOB, Kesha, Justin Bieber, etc. Songs that they definitely aren't playing turning the day. Clear Channel testing the waters here for some format shake-ups? Darn shame.

IMO i never looked at Hot AC as a place for adults to escape rap from chr, i looked at it from the view of my friends and me at the time. just that chr had turned into kidz bob and hip hop dominated and having to sit through all that to hear Matchbox,Goo's,Bon Nickelback,Train etc.
I am 31 years old, my generation grew up in the 80s 90s and we felt chr was insulting our intelligance lol, like we don't appreciate music with merit, good lyrics and musicianship as they did in the 60s,70s,80s,90s. I remember loving Genesis,Huey Lewis,Madonna,Def Leppard,Poison,Bon Jovi and U2 and my parents loved them too as did my teenage aunt at the time. But also remember loving Run DMC and DJ Jazzy Jeff too lol, it was funny but my mother actually loved Parents just don't understand by Fresh Prince lol, so i don't think that it has to do with no rap ever, its just hip hop and gangster type rap to us it seemed and then bubble gum music that made Madonna sound like John Lennon lmao but back to my point Hot AC to me was just what happened to what we had known as top 40 radio since we were born. We had 102.7 that played Matchbox,Nickelback,Duran Duran,Beyonce,Sheryl Crow,John Mayer and Black Eyed Peas "Where Is The Love" and we loved it because they played so many great songs that we couldapreciate a good r&b song or songs not as serious because we have sense of humours too, but a few years back they turned into what sounded like The Beat overnight and wait til the very last moment to add Rob Thomas now and will add Nickalodeon artists before what had been the core of the format for years! Anyways songs like B.O.B "Nothin' On You" do belong i think, because they are good pop songs but JayZ and alot of chr stuff doesn't, when i heard It's going down meet me in the mall on my hometown chr, ive never listened since and it definatly scared away people older than me who loved pop music i guess chr doesn't think the teens of today can get meaning out of alot of great hot ac songs. I remeber listening to the lyrics in songs and getting chills from the words even as a kid, why does mtv and chr want the new generation can't handle complicated music with meaning and passion lol, do they think they are stupid or all on drugs idk lol

[musicfanpete]

Sept 9, 2010 17:41:52 GMT -5 Rumors said:

I listen to a medium market Clear Channel Hot AC. I few weeks they have been running ads that at 7:00pm listen in to hear all the current hits. They then play pieces of songs by BOB, Kesha, Justin Bieber, etc. Songs that they definitely aren't playing turning the day. Clear Channel testing the waters here for some format shake-ups? Darn shame.

It would be nice if these radio companies could keep some of their stations away from the rap and pop music for adults that don't want to listen to this. I guess that's what mainstream AC will be for in the future, but for now look for more Hot AC's to test the waters for more pop music.

Also interesting to note that here in Chicago the more CHR leaning Hot AC WTMX is blowing out "mainstream", but Hot AC leaning, AC Fresh 105.9, 4.4 to 1.5 in the most current 12+ ratings. To put this in perspective, that is 4th place for the Mix, and 26th place for Fresh!

I guess the more CHR leaning Hot AC seems to click with listeners better than the more traditional sounding AC station after all, but that doesn't mean there won't be room for this type of "tweener" station in the future for those who don't want to hear Eminem and Snoop Dogg on a "Hot AC" station. Also Fresh might do well for those who find Chicago's third AC station, WLIT too soft (WLIT routinely finishes midway between the Mix and Fresh outside of the holiday period where it runs away from the pack with their holiday music). But for right now, Fresh has a lot of work to do, while the programmers at the Mix seem to know what they are doing.

[atlantaboy]

I think it has more to do with HAC programmers worried that their well of "superstars" is drying up - back in the late 90s and early 2000s there was one pop/rock band after another coming out and giving them high ratings - now most of these acts are nearly ten years old, or older, with almost no new promising bands being signed

A Hot AC station back in 2003 could play brand new hits from Maroon 5 (just came out), Lifehouse (2 years old), Nickelback (2 years old), 3 Doors Down (3 years old), John Mayer (just came out), Train (4 years old), Matchbox 20 (6 years old), and the Goo Goo Dolls (7 years old)

A Hot AC station in 2010 playing those artists as staples is focusing their station around acts anywhere from 7-15 years old - IMO unless labels start signing new pop/alternative bands and singer/songwriters (with multiple hits), the only way for these stations to go is towards CHR

[musicfanpete]

Sept 10, 2010 16:19:39 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

I think it has more to do with HAC programmers worried that their well of "superstars" is drying up - back in the late 90s and early 2000s there was one pop/rock band after another coming out and giving them high ratings - now most of these acts are nearly ten years old, or older, with almost no new promising bands being signed

A Hot AC station back in 2003 could play brand new hits from Maroon 5 (just came out), Lifehouse (2 years old), Nickelback (2 years old), 3 Doors Down (3 years old), John Mayer (just came out), Train (4 years old), Matchbox 20 (6 years old), and the Goo Goo Dolls (7 years old)

A Hot AC station in 2010 playing those artists as staples is focusing their station around acts anywhere from 7-15 years old - IMO unless labels start signing new pop/alternative bands and singer/songwriters (with multiple hits), the only way for these stations to go is towards CHR

I think there are plenty of singer/songwriter rock leaning artists that could easily fill the void when some of the older portion of the Hot AC core stops producing hits, whether it is their decision and/or listeners tire of them.

Some of those artists you mentioned still have a decent shelf life left on the Hot AC format as exhibited by their recent hits. But if people tire of them, there are still many bright new artists that Hot AC either skipped over or are starting to take root.

Obviously you currently have some "pop/rock hybrid" artists like Katy Perry and Pink that could be considered part of the current core. But Hot AC also has the likes of Sara Bareilles, Kings Of Leon, Shinedown, OneRepublic, Plain White T's, Lady Antebellum, Colbie Caillat and Paramore amongst others that would easily fill the pop/rock end of the format. And what about even newer artists like Neon Trees, Ryan Star, Ingrid Michaelson and the Script? And what about Angel Taylor whose recent hit "Like You Do" was skipped over and/or underplayed on many Hot AC stations?

The point I'm trying to make is that there is always a large pool of artists that can fill the void left by other artists, and artists that need to be given the chance to be heard that too many PD's are skipping over. I think the Hot AC format can be relevant for many years to come, but they need to be true to their core sound first before relying too heavily on pop crossover. A little of that goes a long way.

[atlantaboy]

Sept 10, 2010 18:16:18 GMT -5 musicfanpete said:

Sept 10, 2010 16:19:39 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

I think it has more to do with HAC programmers worried that their well of "superstars" is drying up - back in the late 90s and early 2000s there was one pop/rock band after another coming out and giving them high ratings - now most of these acts are nearly ten years old, or older, with almost no new promising bands being signed

A Hot AC station back in 2003 could play brand new hits from Maroon 5 (just came out), Lifehouse (2 years old), Nickelback (2 years old), 3 Doors Down (3 years old), John Mayer (just came out), Train (4 years old), Matchbox 20 (6 years old), and the Goo Goo Dolls (7 years old)

A Hot AC station in 2010 playing those artists as staples is focusing their station around acts anywhere from 7-15 years old - IMO unless labels start signing new pop/alternative bands and singer/songwriters (with multiple hits), the only way for these stations to go is towards CHR

I think there are plenty of singer/songwriter rock leaning artists that could easily fill the void when some of the older portion of the Hot AC core stops producing hits, whether it is their decision and/or listeners tire of them.

Some of those artists you mentioned still have a decent shelf life left on the Hot AC format as exhibited by their recent hits. But if people tire of them, there are still many bright new artists that Hot AC either skipped over or are starting to take root.

Obviously you currently have some "pop/rock hybrid" artists like Katy Perry and Pink that could be considered part of the current core. But Hot AC also has the likes of Sara Bareilles, Kings Of Leon, Shinedown, OneRepublic, Plain White T's, Lady Antebellum, Colbie Caillat and Paramore amongst others that would easily fill the pop/rock end of the format. And what about even newer artists like Neon Trees, Ryan Star, Ingrid Michaelson and the Script? And what about Angel Taylor whose recent hit "Like You Do" was skipped over and/or underplayed on many Hot AC stations?

The point I'm trying to make is that there is always a large pool of artists that can fill the void left by other artists, and artists that need to be given the chance to be heard that too many PD's are skipping over. I think the Hot AC format can be relevant for many years to come, but they need to be true to their core sound first before relying too heavily on pop crossover. A little of that goes a long way.

Thanks for the response man but I really gotta disagree here, just cause Kings Of Leon, Shinedown, Plain White T's, Lady Antebellum, Paramore, Colbie, and Sara B. don't seem like they're on the road to becoming the HAC hit machines that all those bands of the 90s/early 00s were - IMO the Script's upcoming single seems weak, and I don't think Angel Taylor drummed up much excitement

I think smart HAC programmers are gonna have to rely on Lady GaGa, B. O. B., Katy Perry, Kesha, Taio Cruz, etc., unless some major rock crossover starts happening soon

[musicfanpete]

Sept 10, 2010 21:07:03 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

Sept 10, 2010 18:16:18 GMT -5 musicfanpete said:

I think there are plenty of singer/songwriter rock leaning artists that could easily fill the void when some of the older portion of the Hot AC core stops producing hits, whether it is their decision and/or listeners tire of them.

Some of those artists you mentioned still have a decent shelf life left on the Hot AC format as exhibited by their recent hits. But if people tire of them, there are still many bright new artists that Hot AC either skipped over or are starting to take root.

Obviously you currently have some "pop/rock hybrid" artists like Katy Perry and Pink that could be considered part of the current core. But Hot AC also has the likes of Sara Bareilles, Kings Of Leon, Shinedown, OneRepublic, Plain White T's, Lady Antebellum, Colbie Caillat and Paramore amongst others that would easily fill the pop/rock end of the format. And what about even newer artists like Neon Trees, Ryan Star, Ingrid Michaelson and the Script? And what about Angel Taylor whose recent hit "Like You Do" was skipped over and/or underplayed on many Hot AC stations?

The point I'm trying to make is that there is always a large pool of artists that can fill the void left by other artists, and artists that need to be given the chance to be heard that too many PD's are skipping over. I think the Hot AC format can be relevant for many years to come, but they need to be true to their core sound first before relying too heavily on pop crossover. A little of that goes a long way.

Thanks for the response man but I really gotta disagree here, just cause Kings Of Leon, Shinedown, Plain White T's, Lady Antebellum, Paramore, Colbie, and Sara B. don't seem like they're on the road to becoming the HAC hit machines that all those bands of the 90s/early 00s were - IMO the Script's upcoming single seems weak, and I don't think Angel Taylor drummed up much excitement

I think smart HAC programmers are gonna have to rely on Lady GaGa, B. O. B., Katy Perry, Kesha, Taio Cruz, etc., unless some major rock crossover starts happening soon

Well, the Mix in Chicago is relying on those above artists except for Cruz, and their ratings have been great. The latest ratings that came out today still have the Mix at a 4.3, 12+ share and 5th overall in the market, down just a touch from last month. Their "mainstream" AC competitor Fresh 105.9 moved up to a 1.7, 12+ share into 24th place, though they are relying quite a bit on Lady Gaga and Katy Perry as well.

I still think a couple of those artists I listed could turn into long term core artists for the format, but you are right in that one or two big hits does not necessarily make them core artists. However, the format is still dominated by rock leaning artists, and that is the long term key into maintaining the format, IMO. Of course some pop crossover will help fill the gaps until more rock leaning artists come along. And yes, maybe Hot AC will continue to segue into the new mainstream CHR format given that so many of the current "mainstream" CHR's are so rhythmic leaning these days. I just feel that the future of the Hot AC format cannot depend on it being a copycat format from something that already exists or existed not that long ago.

But maybe that's where mainstream AC's will come into play. Perhaps they will replace the Hot AC format as the format that plays the rock leaning singer/songwriter type of artist that Hot AC's won't touch anymore.

[atlantaboy]

Sept 10, 2010 22:14:14 GMT -5 musicfanpete said:

But maybe that's where mainstream AC's will come into play. Perhaps they will replace the Hot AC format as the format that plays the rock leaning singer/songwriter type of artist that Hot AC's won't touch anymore.

Don't understand - what rock leaning singer/songwriters is Hot AC not touching?

[livelikedying111]

I know it's a dumb question, but I gotta ask it: Hot AC & AC are adult formats right? then how come they play Lady gaga and other current hits? what kind of adults listen to that kind of music?!

[marv1978]

Sept 10, 2010 18:16:18 GMT -5 musicfanpete said:

Sept 10, 2010 16:19:39 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

I think it has more to do with HAC programmers worried that their well of "superstars" is drying up - back in the late 90s and early 2000s there was one pop/rock band after another coming out and giving them high ratings - now most of these acts are nearly ten years old, or older, with almost no new promising bands being signed

A Hot AC station back in 2003 could play brand new hits from Maroon 5 (just came out), Lifehouse (2 years old), Nickelback (2 years old), 3 Doors Down (3 years old), John Mayer (just came out), Train (4 years old), Matchbox 20 (6 years old), and the Goo Goo Dolls (7 years old)

A Hot AC station in 2010 playing those artists as staples is focusing their station around acts anywhere from 7-15 years old - IMO unless labels start signing new pop/alternative bands and singer/songwriters (with multiple hits), the only way for these stations to go is towards CHR

I think there are plenty of singer/songwriter rock leaning artists that could easily fill the void when some of the older portion of the Hot AC core stops producing hits, whether it is their decision and/or listeners tire of them.

Some of those artists you mentioned still have a decent shelf life left on the Hot AC format as exhibited by their recent hits. But if people tire of them, there are still many bright new artists that Hot AC either skipped over or are starting to take root.

Obviously you currently have some "pop/rock hybrid" artists like Katy Perry and Pink that could be considered part of the current core. But Hot AC also has the likes of Sara Bareilles, Kings Of Leon, Shinedown, OneRepublic, Plain White T's, Lady Antebellum, Colbie Caillat and Paramore amongst others that would easily fill the pop/rock end of the format. And what about even newer artists like Neon Trees, Ryan Star, Ingrid Michaelson and the Script? And what about Angel Taylor whose recent hit "Like You Do" was skipped over and/or underplayed on many Hot AC stations?

The point I'm trying to make is that there is always a large pool of artists that can fill the void left by other artists, and artists that need to be given the chance to be heard that too many PD's are skipping over. I think the Hot AC format can be relevant for many years to come, but they need to be true to their core sound first before relying too heavily on pop crossover. A little of that goes a long way.

totally agree, there is always good hot ac and pop rock out! all the bands that are 10 years old are 10 years old 4 a reason. they are career bands not 3-4 hit wonders, they want to be like billy joel,rod stewart,bryan adams,u2,r.e.m,sheryl crow,elton john,bon jovi...i could go on and on but those artists had hits in multiple decades, i think Rob Thomas definatly deserves a 3 decade career!

[brb]

Sept 11, 2010 4:38:29 GMT -5 livelikedying111 said:

I know it's a dumb question, but I gotta ask it: Hot AC & AC are adult formats right? then how come they play Lady gaga and other current hits? what kind of adults listen to that kind of music?!

Yup, lol, especially that HAC station that spinned Bieber's songs all day long back then. Is there anyone at their 40s or 50s that really wants to listen to Bieber?..

[livelikedying111]

Sept 11, 2010 9:23:30 GMT -5 brb said:

Sept 11, 2010 4:38:29 GMT -5 livelikedying111 said:

I know it's a dumb question, but I gotta ask it: Hot AC & AC are adult formats right? then how come they play Lady gaga and other current hits? what kind of adults listen to that kind of music?!

Yup, lol, especially that HAC station that spinned Bieber's songs all day long back then. Is there anyone at their 40s or 50s that really wants to listen to Bieber?..

What was up with that?! was it even eligible?
When I think of AC, I think of rock and ballads, and some RnB dealing with issues, like Ludacris' Runaway Love. Not Justin Bieber...

[musicfanpete]

Sept 10, 2010 22:46:42 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

Sept 10, 2010 22:14:14 GMT -5 musicfanpete said:

But maybe that's where mainstream AC's will come into play. Perhaps they will replace the Hot AC format as the format that plays the rock leaning singer/songwriter type of artist that Hot AC's won't touch anymore.

Don't understand - what rock leaning singer/songwriters is Hot AC not touching?

Well, current acts that may eventually fall out of favor with the Hot AC audience. A good recent example was the top 15 AC hit by Sarah Mclachlan, "Loving You Is Easy". Five or six years ago this would easily have been at least a top 20 or maybe even top 10 hit on Hot AC radio. But most listeners of Hot AC radio don't really care to hear her on the format, so she has been relagated to mainstream AC radio. Even Hot AC stars of the 90's like Seal, Phil Collins and Heart are receiving at least some airplay on AC radio this week.

Heck, one day even Train and Rob Thomas might run into some resistence at Hot AC radio, but continue making hits on the AC format. Audience tastes change, and some of these current Hot AC acts might have to look elsewhere for exposure.

[musicfanpete]

Sept 11, 2010 4:38:29 GMT -5 livelikedying111 said:

I know it's a dumb question, but I gotta ask it: Hot AC & AC are adult formats right? then how come they play Lady gaga and other current hits? what kind of adults listen to that kind of music?!

Many adults do like Lady Gaga and other pop crossover hits that are receiving heavy exposure at Hot AC. It's artists like Eminem and other rap songs that are starting to creep into the format that concerns me. That's why no matter how CHR leaning Hot AC becomes you still need a core of artists that are Hot AC exclusive to keep the format distinctive from other formats. Otherwise all we have are three or four similar formats that are only separated by slight changes in texture, which leaves nothing for those who want to hear exclusively singer/songwriter type of acts on one radio station. And contrary to those who say otherwise, not everyone who was raised on rap music in their teens wants to continue to hear it after they get older.

[musicfanpete]

Sept 11, 2010 9:23:30 GMT -5 brb said:

Sept 11, 2010 4:38:29 GMT -5 livelikedying111 said:

I know it's a dumb question, but I gotta ask it: Hot AC & AC are adult formats right? then how come they play Lady gaga and other current hits? what kind of adults listen to that kind of music?!

Yup, lol, especially that HAC station that spinned Bieber's songs all day long back then. Is there anyone at their 40s or 50s that really wants to listen to Bieber?..

Oh god, I hope not! :o

Even some CHR's won't touch him, rightfully so!

[atlantaboy]

Sept 11, 2010 15:19:30 GMT -5 musicfanpete said:

Sept 10, 2010 22:46:42 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

Don't understand - what rock leaning singer/songwriters is Hot AC not touching?

Well, current acts that may eventually fall out of favor with the Hot AC audience. A good recent example was the top 15 AC hit by Sarah Mclachlan, "Loving You Is Easy". Five or six years ago this would easily have been at least a top 20 or maybe even top 10 hit on Hot AC radio. But most listeners of Hot AC radio don't really care to hear her on the format, so she has been relagated to mainstream AC radio.

I dunno...kinda think Sarah McLachlan and Sheryl Crow have stopped making tracks that appeal to HAC, and lean more Triple A

Wouldn't count on mainstream AC breaking songs though...even a Top 15 AC hit means most stations play the song maybe 10-15 times a week, usually late at night

As far as Eminem creeping into the format, I wouldn't be too worried IMO, cause Love The Way You Lie might be in the 30s, but only 17 out of 100 Hot AC stations are playin it

[musicfanpete]

Sept 11, 2010 18:59:35 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

Sept 11, 2010 15:19:30 GMT -5 musicfanpete said:

Well, current acts that may eventually fall out of favor with the Hot AC audience. A good recent example was the top 15 AC hit by Sarah Mclachlan, "Loving You Is Easy". Five or six years ago this would easily have been at least a top 20 or maybe even top 10 hit on Hot AC radio. But most listeners of Hot AC radio don't really care to hear her on the format, so she has been relagated to mainstream AC radio.

I dunno...kinda think Sarah McLachlan and Sheryl Crow have stopped making tracks that appeal to HAC, and lean more Triple A

Wouldn't count on mainstream AC breaking songs though...even a Top 15 AC hit means most stations play the song maybe 10-15 times a week, usually late at night

As far as Eminem creeping into the format, I wouldn't be too worried IMO, cause Love The Way You Lie might be in the 30s, but only 17 out of 100 Hot AC stations are playin it

Yeah, but one of those 17 stations playing it is my hometown station WTMX, and they are playing it very heavily. So it feels like many more stations are playing it than in reality!

Of course we have other Hot AC's in the area too that don't play it, so there are other options.

Agreed with your other points as well. Maybe Triple A will be the way to go in the future to find some of these artists.

[atlantaboy]

^Oh def. - Triple A loves breaking new (and I guess old) singer/songwriters

[KelownaGuy20]

Sept 11, 2010 18:59:35 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

I dunno...kinda think Sarah McLachlan and Sheryl Crow have stopped making tracks that appeal to HAC, and lean more Triple A

Wouldn't count on mainstream AC breaking songs though...even a Top 15 AC hit means most stations play the song maybe 10-15 times a week, usually late at night

As far as Eminem creeping into the format, I wouldn't be too worried IMO, cause Love The Way You Lie might be in the 30s, but only 17 out of 100 Hot AC stations are playin it

"Loving You Is Easy" has been a Top 10 hit here in Canada... but top 10 on the AC chart. It's currently below the likes of Lady Gaga's "Alejandro" (#2), "California Gurls" (#3), and Adam Lambert's "Whataya Want From Me" (#4), as well as songs by Lady Antebellum and The Script.

Meanwhile, Canadian AC is charting songs like Maroon 5's "Misery" at 14, Nickelback's "Never Gonna Be Alone" at 12, Taio Cruz's "Break Your Heart" at 18, and "Single Ladies (Put A Ring On It" at 30.

On the HotAC front, "Airplanes" is the current #1 song in Canada, with a Top 5 rounded out by "Dynamite" at 2, Enrique's "I Like It" at 3, Eminem's "Love The Way You Lie" at 4, and "Teenage Dream" at 5. Maroon 5 sits at 8, Bruno Mars is 13, OneRepublic's "Secrets" is at 20, and Flo Rida's "Club Can't Handle Me" is at 25.

Why do you think it is the Canadian and American HotAC stations, supposedly the same format, have taken different routes? Is it because of a lack of CHR stations in Canada, leading HotAC stations to fill holes in communities without that "younger sound." And if that's the case, do you think that the target demo has just gotten used to it? Because the target demo of HotAC in Canada is the same as that in America, and yet Eminem's track is one of our most popular.

Take a look at the same hour on my local HotAC, and AC stations. The AC looks a lot more like an American HotAC.

3:59pm - J. Gaines, Better Man
4:04pm - Genesis, Follow You Follow Me
4:08pm - Theory Of A Deadman, All Or Nothing
4:10pm - Soft Cell, Tainted Love
4:13pm - Neil Young, Harvest Moon
4:16pm - Lady Gaga, Bad Romance
4:26pm - Black Eyed Peas, Meet Me Halfway
4:30pm - The Proclaimers, I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles)
4:33pm - Gino Vanelli, Hurts To Be In Love
4:37pm - Train, Hey, Soul Sister
4:41pm - Plain White T's, Hey There Delilah
4:45pm - Huey Lewis & The News, The Heart Of Rock & Roll
4:48pm - Ash Koley, Don't Let Your Feet Touch Ground
4:55pm - Hall & Oates, She's Gone

4:00pm - Eminem featuring Rihanna, Love The Way You Lie
4:05pm - Fefe Dobson, Ghost
4:09pm - OutKast, Hey Ya!
4:14pm - Maroon 5, Misery
4:18pm - John Mayer, Heartbreak Warfare
4:25pm - Lady Gaga, Eh Eh (Nothing Else I Can Say)
4:28pm - Longo & Wainwright featuring Craig Smart, One Life Stand
4:32pm - Danny Fernandes, Fantasy
4:40pm - Natalie Imbruglia, Torn
4:44pm - No Doubt, Hey Baby
4:48pm - Tiesto featuring Tegan & Sara - Feel It In My Bones
4:55pm - Theory Of A Deadman, Not Meant To Be
4:59pm - Sean Kingston, Fire Burning

[atlantaboy]

^Not sure I know enough about Canadian radio to answer that accurately, but from what I remember Canadian CHR is really rhythmic, leaving a situation like that in Chicago or Baltimore, where the Hot AC then goes and becomes the mainstream CHR

[MostInterestingManInTheWorld]

Sept 10, 2010 18:16:18 GMT -5 musicfanpete said:

Sept 10, 2010 16:19:39 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

I think it has more to do with HAC programmers worried that their well of "superstars" is drying up - back in the late 90s and early 2000s there was one pop/rock band after another coming out and giving them high ratings - now most of these acts are nearly ten years old, or older, with almost no new promising bands being signed

A Hot AC station back in 2003 could play brand new hits from Maroon 5 (just came out), Lifehouse (2 years old), Nickelback (2 years old), 3 Doors Down (3 years old), John Mayer (just came out), Train (4 years old), Matchbox 20 (6 years old), and the Goo Goo Dolls (7 years old)

A Hot AC station in 2010 playing those artists as staples is focusing their station around acts anywhere from 7-15 years old - IMO unless labels start signing new pop/alternative bands and singer/songwriters (with multiple hits), the only way for these stations to go is towards CHR

I think there are plenty of singer/songwriter rock leaning artists that could easily fill the void when some of the older portion of the Hot AC core stops producing hits, whether it is their decision and/or listeners tire of them.

Some of those artists you mentioned still have a decent shelf life left on the Hot AC format as exhibited by their recent hits. But if people tire of them, there are still many bright new artists that Hot AC either skipped over or are starting to take root.

Obviously you currently have some "pop/rock hybrid" artists like Katy Perry and Pink that could be considered part of the current core. But Hot AC also has the likes of Sara Bareilles, Kings Of Leon, Shinedown, OneRepublic, Plain White T's, Lady Antebellum, Colbie Caillat and Paramore amongst others that would easily fill the pop/rock end of the format. And what about even newer artists like Neon Trees, Ryan Star, Ingrid Michaelson and the Script? And what about Angel Taylor whose recent hit "Like You Do" was skipped over and/or underplayed on many Hot AC stations?

The point I'm trying to make is that there is always a large pool of artists that can fill the void left by other artists, and artists that need to be given the chance to be heard that too many PD's are skipping over. I think the Hot AC format can be relevant for many years to come, but they need to be true to their core sound first before relying too heavily on pop crossover. A little of that goes a long way.

I kind of get where Atlanta is coming from... in the case of Train/Nickelback/Lifehouse/mb20/Goo Goo Dolls, the artists were tailor-made for HAC, and I can't help but notice that all started out as alternative acts. And note that all of these broke out in the late 90's/early 00's, when these acts were kind of seen as "the male answer to Lillith Fair". Well, ok, maybe not literally, but I do group those five with theSarah McLachlans/Paula Coles/Jewels/Alanises of the time.

The problem with the acts on Pete's list is that, Hot AC success notwithstanding, I don't really think of as 'core HAC artists', with the possible exception of Kings of Leon. And that can be attributed to any number of factors, but I think timing is one of the main reasons. So that leaves the format with a bunch of acts which are effectively dinosaurs, and a variety of one- or two-hit wonders from newer acts of varying degrees of persuasion. Is that good or bad? Only time will tell, but I think more variety can only be a good thing. Nobody wants this format to wind up like country.

[KelownaGuy20]

Sept 12, 2010 9:07:11 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

^Not sure I know enough about Canadian radio to answer that accurately, but from what I remember Canadian CHR is really rhythmic, leaving a situation like that in Chicago or Baltimore, where the Hot AC then goes and becomes the mainstream CHR

I don't think that's the case. Canadian CHR has higher spin counts, but I don't see a lot of similarities between it and American Rhythmic. There are songs shared, sure, as is the case with Rhythmic and American CHR.

Canadian CHR and HotAC are similar in sound, with 70% of the Top 10 of each chart shared between both formats. But, as I said before, it goes back to spin count. CHR, despite having fewer stations in Canada has nearly double the spin count for their top songs.

[musicfanpete]

Sept 12, 2010 12:50:30 GMT -5 MostInterestingManInTheWorld said:

I kind of get where Atlanta is coming from... in the case of Train/Nickelback/Lifehouse/mb20/Goo Goo Dolls, the artists were tailor-made for HAC, and I can't help but notice that all started out as alternative acts. And note that all of these broke out in the late 90's/early 00's, when these acts were kind of seen as "the male answer to Lillith Fair". Well, ok, maybe not literally, but I do group those five with theSarah McLachlans/Paula Coles/Jewels/Alanises of the time.

The problem with the acts on Pete's list is that, Hot AC success notwithstanding, I don't really think of as 'core HAC artists', with the possible exception of Kings of Leon. And that can be attributed to any number of factors, but I think timing is one of the main reasons. So that leaves the format with a bunch of acts which are effectively dinosaurs, and a variety of one- or two-hit wonders from newer acts of varying degrees of persuasion. Is that good or bad? Only time will tell, but I think more variety can only be a good thing. Nobody wants this format to wind up like country.

I'm all for more variety at this format, but I just don't want to see a period of extremes (similar to the normal cycles you see at the CHR format) where the likes of Eminem start creeping into the format. I have no problem with most of the pop/variety that Hot AC radio is playing these days. But if songs that are blantantly CHR exclusive start dominating a typical Hot AC playlist, that's what will eventually alienate some of their core listeners.

[atlantaboy]

^I dunno...Love The Way You Lie doesn't seem that far-fetched for Hot AC to me - yeah it's Eminem, but it's got pop/altermative music in the background throughout the whole song, and a hook sung by Rihanna that sounds pretty AC

Anyhow, not sure how it's any different than playing Airplanes or Nothin' On You - if those songs didn't alienate listeners from Mix Chicago, then not sure why this one would

[musicfanpete]

Sept 13, 2010 18:38:50 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

^I dunno...Love The Way You Lie doesn't seem that far-fetched for Hot AC to me - yeah it's Eminem, but it's got pop/altermative music in the background throughout the whole song, and a hook sung by Rihanna that sounds pretty AC

Anyhow, not sure how it's any different than playing Airplanes or Nothin' On You - if those songs didn't alienate listeners from Mix Chicago, then not sure why this one would

Maybe not at the Mix since they seem to be doing something right based on their strong ratings. But probably at other stations given only 17 out of 100 have added Eminem!

[Minor Scratch]

The Hot AC in Dallas (Mix 102.9) has just started to lean heavily towards CHR. I've heard more a lot more Ke$ha and Lady GaGa than ever before. Recurrents that they weren't playing before have started to pop up (Just Dance, Tik Tok). More CHR leaning songs are being added earlier than ever (Misery, Teenage Dream, Cooler Than Me, If I Had You), sometimes a whole month or more than they usually would. Not sure if its the changing demographics of the DFW area that prompted the change, or if its simply to keep up with the CHR daddies that are KHKS and the Hot AC-leaning Cumulus CHR KLIF.

[atlantaboy]

^I still think it's lack of new pop/alternative material and new pop/alternative artists

If there were a slew of new pop/alt. acts with strings of hits (like in the late 90s/early 2000s), IMO stations could lean "Modern AC", but since there aren't, more and more are leaning CHR

I know that around the Washington D. C. area a lot of Hot ACs have switched to playing CHR tracks with HAC recurrents (WBQB/Fredericksburg, WINC/Winchester, WWMX/Baltimore)

[Marv]

Hot AC was explicitly designed for adults who couldn't stand the inundation of rap and rhythmic stuff at top 40 radio starting with KIIS/LA's overreaction to KPWR (Power 106) going from non-existent to #1 in less than a year in 1987; one of the format's positioning statements back then was 'today's best music without the rap and hard-rock'.

While the amount of hard rock has soared at many Hot AC stations, including format powerhouses such as KBIG/LA, it's almost nonexistent at top 40 radio thanks to Clear Channel, which uses rhythmic-heavy WKFS/Cincinnati as the template for most of their CHR stations as former Billboard radio columnist Sean Ross pointed out a decade ago.

His current newsletters, RossOnRadio & the newly-launched 25-Plus are available for free at www.radio-info.com

He continues to point out that all of those rock acts that were huge at top 40 radio during the eighties, including the likes of Bruce Springsteen, John Mellencamp, Don Henley, Genesis, Joan Jett, Def Leppard,GnR/Bon Jovi, the Police and all the rest are more than welcome at Hot AC radio these days, alongside some very carefully selected stuff from Lady Gaga, the BEP & other CHR/Pop stalwarts.

Overall, Hot AC is in great shape, since it's a songwriter-driven format a la Country, Classic Rock, Adult Hits, Oldies/Classic Hits and other adult-friendly formats.

Even given the success tories at top 40 radio these days, topped by both KIIS & WHTZ enjoying their best ratings in almost nineteen years, and that beyond-stupendous 8.5 for Boston's WXKS (is it 2010 or 1984?), Hot AC continues to do well.

The ratings may be all over the place from market to market as KPLZ/Seattle PD Kent Phillips pointed out in R&R in 2008, but the cash flow is solid, and especially in a market such as Seattle where the local CHR/Pop powerhouse (KBKS) plays a ton of alternative music, yet ranks #2 today in 18-34.

[Rumors]

Just curious...are Marv and Marv1978 the same person? Interesting insight from both/or one "posters."

[Marv]

No--I've been on this board and its predecessor @ R&R for several years.

If you'd like to see the difference between an American CHR & a Canadian CHR, compare the playlists of WKSE & CKEY, both in Buffalo NY, in terms of both spins per week and how much rap they play.

The alternative & rock acts who came to Hot AC in the late eighties, led by the Wallflowers, MB20, Third Eye Blind, Sugar Ray (LA's KYSR, then known as Star 98.7 really pushed these guys by 'stealing' them from Alternative pioneer KROQ/LA) and others really help boost the format, which was always popular with females and baby-boomers throughout the entire decade (yours truly included), sprinkling their playlists with eighties and nineties pop masterpieces from Go West, Huey Lewis, Daryl Hall & John Oates, Roxette, Chicago, Eurythmics and tons of others, on top of all of the hard rock artists previouslly mentioned.

[musicfanpete]

Sept 16, 2010 22:28:15 GMT -5 Marv said:

No--I've been on this board and its predecessor @ R&R for several years.

If you'd like to see the difference between an American CHR & a Canadian CHR, compare the playlists of WKSE & CKEY, both in Buffalo NY, in terms of both spins per week and how much rap they play.

The alternative & rock acts who came to Hot AC in the late eighties, led by the Wallflowers, MB20, Third Eye Blind, Sugar Ray (LA's KYSR, then known as Star 98.7 really pushed these guys by 'stealing' them from Alternative pioneer KROQ/LA) and others really help boost the format, which was always popular with females and baby-boomers throughout the entire decade (yours truly included), sprinkling their playlists with eighties and nineties pop masterpieces from Go West, Huey Lewis, Daryl Hall & John Oates, Roxette, Chicago, Eurythmics and tons of others, on top of all of the hard rock artists previouslly mentioned.

Actually I think you meant to say the alternative & rock acts who came to Hot AC in the late nineties, not eighties, though I know what you mean. Both of these were excellent posts and as I have been saying here for quite awhile, I'm all for pop crossover within the Hot AC format, but as Sean Ross stated, very carefully selected. I don't think "Love The Way You Lie" is very carefully selected, but it does work on my hometown Hot AC station WTMX, and it works at a few other medium and larger market Hot AC's as well. However, these are Hot AC's that are really adult leaning mainstream CHR's, located in markets where the so-called classified mainstream CHR's are so heavily rhythmic that you wouldn't even think they are mainstream. But I'm pretty sure Eminem would not sit well with the vast majority of Hot AC stations around the country. And that's what worries me about the direction this format may be headed, at least in a few markets.

In Chicago, one of our mainstream AC's is following suit becoming very Hot AC leaning, which definitely becomes a good alternative if the Mix continues to lean more pop. Perhaps in the very near future, AC radio will become the place to hear "today's best music without the rap and hard rock".