musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jun 8, 2010 21:37:18 GMT -5
Nothing reflects the current state of the Hot AC format more than by what is occurring here in Chicago. You have a heritage Hot AC in WTMX, with an upstart competitor in WCFS (Fresh 105.9), a Hot AC leaning mainstream AC station (with a similar situation in New York City with their Fresh AC station up against heritage Hot AC station WPLJ).
While not exactly lighting their ratings on fire, Fresh 105.9 has definitely forced the Mix into a more CHR direction, at least in my opinion. It's not only what the Mix is playing, but how often these songs get played, and how their rotation patterns have changed over the past year or so. You have the Mix playing more and more pop-crossover music, with some rap included, though some of that may be a bit reflective of how the format is changing in general. But I think a lot also has to do with the presence of Fresh 105.9 in the market.
The Mix came off of all time high ratings last summer (over 5.0, 12+ overall) right after Fresh tweaked their playlist to a more Hot AC lean. And while Fresh has only now started to benefit a bit from this tweak finally hitting a 2 share rating, it has IMO done significant damage to the Mix's ratings as they have dropped from a 5.2 to a 3.9. which is still not too shabby, though a trend that needs to be watched. But one wonders whether much of the drop is attributed to Fresh taking some of their core listeners away, or whether the Mix overreacted by adding more pop product to their playlist.
Whatever you call it, the Mix has become that defacto mainstream CHR station that Chicago has lacked since the days of Z-95 back in the late 80's, whether or not they call themselves such. And it's not only what they are playing but how they are playing it. It's now much more likely for a Black Eyed Peas song or Lady Gaga song to make their power recurrent list than a song from a more Hot AC sounding artist these days. Case in point, the Mix has already completely dropped the previous hits by Orianthi, Kris Allen and John Mayer amongst others, while Fresh is still playing them. The Mix has dumped probably about two dozen or so major hits already this year while Fresh has only dropped about four or five all year, many of those songs from last year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Hot AC format was the pop music format for adults that builds their gold library through their currents, not dumping them after six to nine months of airplay as the CHR format does.
Fresh PD Jim Ryan was interviewed by the local media when he was hired as the Fresh PD back in April. He stated that he believes in the Fresh format and is willing to give it a chance to take root. I found that funny because there is really nothing all that original about the Fresh format outside of the fact it's how the Hot AC format sounded about 8 or 10 years ago, with a bit more pop-crossover thrown in.
The Fresh format is a Hot AC format for all practical purposes, but with more 80's and 90's gold thrown in, and fewer songs added at a later time, all with a slightly slower rotation than some of the more active Hot AC stations program. So maybe Ryan has something here. He's going with a format that is not that much different than what has already been tried before, but he is seeing the shift that many Hot AC stations are going through and sticking with a format that will become the new template for the mainstream AC format in the very near future. And that is a smart move on his part as I can see more and more dissatisfied listeners eventually moving to this new breed of mainstream AC. As the Fresh format has already shown up in Chicago, New York and Washington DC, CBS radio which "invented" this format is already ahead of the game.
And what will become of the "Lite" FM's that still exist but hardly add any new music these days? My guess is they will be dropped from the mainstream AC panel (at least the ones play fewer than 8 or 10 currents), the Fresh AC's and similar types of AC's will become part of a new combined AC chart, while the more conservative Hot AC stations will make up the rest of the new AC panel. Then the CHR leaning Hot AC's like the Mix will be left to join the CHR/mainstream panel, many of which should have been reporting to the CHR panel for years now. It should be interesting to watch all of this unfold over the next few years, if not sooner.
I'd be interested in any comments as I know many here have discussed this topic in the past.
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Hot AC Archiver
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Post by Hot AC Archiver on Jun 11, 2010 13:16:58 GMT -5
All of the below is just my opinion/rant...so feel free to if you want ;) Hot AC is beginning its transition to what a lot of us would call CHR/Pop, just like I consider today's CHR/Pop to be yesteryear's CHR/Rhythmic. Eventually, those of us who do not like today's CHR will have to quit listening to Hot AC as it morphs into CHR. It happens all the time due to the format concentrating on age groups. Unfortunately, since AC is for the most part an "oldies" based format, those of us who prefer HAC will have no place to go. I hope that AC stations morph into what we call HAC today, but I don't know if they will or not. I can listen to old AT40 shows from the mid 70s to just about the mid 90s and enjoy most of the songs, and all of those where "Top 40" songs, but as the 90s progressed into the early 2000s, I lost interest in most CHR songs. I guess that's just part of aging. :) I guess eventually I will have to change my username to "Oldies"Guru.
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Rumors
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Post by Rumors on Jun 11, 2010 14:12:31 GMT -5
Excellent posts by bother of you. I think you are spot on, unfortunately. My HotAC did change to a more modern AC last year. I don't like it quite as well but I don't have to listen to the new BEPs songs either. I don't like their new stuff at all. When my station switched, they dropped a song like How Far We've Come by MB20, and picked up Little Wonders by Rob Thomas. My favorite format is HotAC that leans rock/alternative. Does that station even exist anymore?
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KelownaGuy20
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Post by KelownaGuy20 on Jun 11, 2010 16:50:55 GMT -5
The HotAC station I work at has been changing for a number of years. When I started 8 years ago, it was in line with what a typical HotAC station in any number of smaller (or even medium sized) US city would sound like. They were a solid #2 in the ratings behind the the local AC station.
At that time, this was a 5 station market. There was the AC station, a rock station, a country station, a talk station, and our HotAC.
Over time, the music started to shift. It had to, though. People were outgrowing the demo, and new listeners were moving into the demo. These new listeners were the CHR fans of the 90s, so our playlist changed a bit to reflect that. There were a few more pop songs, and a few less "HotAC" songs. Sure, the HotAC songs were still the majority.
As the years progressed, the market welcomed change. The country station became an oldies station. Then the talk station became a country station. The oldies station became a talk station. A new "Jack" type station launched, as did one focused on classic rock.
But the community also changed. What was once a retirement community, Kelowna blossomed, and welcomed young families. The university nearly quadrupled in size.
These days, our HotAC station would closer resemble an American CHR. While we have reasonable play counts (our powers get played 4-5 times a day), our music is fresh and fun, while still adult friendly. Our announcers are young and vibrant, but they know where the line in drawn. It's taken a lot of work, but it's a good balance. Through market research, and nearly daily interaction with our listeners, we've been able to provide a HotAC station that works for Kelowna. And, for the record, we're now the #1 station in town.
Sample playlist for the last hour: Nelly Furtado - I'm Like A Bird Jessica Simpson - I Think I'm In Love With You Jay-Z featuring Rihanna & Kanye West - Run This Town Maroon 5 - She Will Be Loved Down With Webster - Your Man Timbaland featuring Justin Timberlake - Carry Out Orianthi - Shut Up and Kiss Me Adam Lambert - For Your Entertainment Longo & Wainwright featuring Craig Smart - One Life Stand P!nk - Please Don't Leave Me Prince - 1999 Charice featuring Iyaz - Pyramid Christina Aguilera - Fighter
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jmason
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Post by jmason on Jun 11, 2010 19:58:20 GMT -5
I feel that the formats are moving as their audience matures. Like the AC of today is becoming the HOT AC of the 2000s. The HOT AC of today is becoming the POP of of 2000s. While POP is simply the driving force in new music. But I think AC has done this transition much quicker than the HOT AC has done.
A good example I think would be Sarah McLachlan's new stuff. It's taking off on AC, while HOT AC has barely touched it. Like 7 years ago Sarah McLachlan was a core HOT AC artist, not so much a AC artist. Afterglow gave Sarah 3 top 20 HOT AC hits while Fallen peaked at like #12 on AC. Meanwhile artist that were considered core AC artist 10 years ago are having trouble on the AC chart. Songs from Celine Dion, Phil Collins and others have done much less than they would have done 10 years ago on AC.
I think the AC of today has basically become like HOT AC- but AC just plays their stuff longer and a few songs are different. In fact a few weeks ago I was curious, and so I combined the two charts. There wasn't even a major difference. Even today if the charts were combined a few songs would re-enter the chart but that is basically it. AC isn't playing anything that HOT AC isn't other than 8 songs. And most of those songs are from artist who were once core AC artist, but no longer. AC basically plays HOT AC music. And I wonder why haven't the two charts been combined, I really see no point in an AC chart.
I personally hate the changes. HOT AC is my favorite format. But I espically loved the early 2000 years. That is when HOT AC played all the great artist from the 90s like McLachlan, Crow, Collective Soul, Jewel, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and AC was still playing artist from the 80s. Now both HOT AC and AC have jumped to playing artist from the 00s. In 2000 HOT AC and AC wouldn't have touched Pink- and now she is a core artist. I wish there was still a format where Collective Soul and all those other great artist could score a decent hit. I'm tired of HOT AC and AC playing the same thing.
On the sample radio playlist. Yuck, I would never think that is HOT AC. Jay-Z, Carry Out- even in today's world I couldn't see that on HOT AC yet. A playlist I would like on HOT AC would be something like this.
Home- Goo Goo Dolls All I Ever Wanted- Kelly Clarkson Lighting Crashes- Live Soak Up The Sun- Sheryl Crow You And Your Heart- Jack Johnson Her Diamonds- Rob Thomas Mysterious Ways- U2
Overall I happy with HOT AC, If I could change anything I would take away the RHYTHMIC leaning stations- a little GaGa is okay but HOT AC playing Rude Boy and Break Your Heart and Ke$ha drives me up the wall!
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jun 11, 2010 21:24:30 GMT -5
It happens all the time due to the format concentrating on age groups. Unfortunately, since AC is for the most part an "oldies" based format, those of us who prefer HAC will have no place to go. I hope that AC stations morph into what we call HAC today, but I don't know if they will or not. Well, you already have three AC stations that have morphed into Hot AC even while still calling themselves "AC". Those would be the three Fresh stations programmed by CBS radio. The Fresh stations in Chicago, New York City and DC are basically Hot AC stations, but packaged as mainstream AC's, they are the AC station of tomorrow. And because these are the first three stations that have morphed into what we call HAC today, there is hope that the mainstream AC format will fill the bill while most other Hot AC's move into a CHR direction. As far as other current Hot AC's go, not all are going the CHR route. You have a highly rated heritage station in Minneapolis, KSTP, that still leans in a Modern AC direction, while playing artists that many other Hot AC's have long dropped or won't even consider touching. They have like most Hot AC's added a bit more pop-crossover songs as of late, but it is still a very low percentage of their playlist, and except for the occasional BEP or Lady Gaga song, they have stayed away from the more blantant CHR sounding songs. And I'm sure there are other smaller market HAC stations that have stayed focused as well, including three suburban Chicago HAC stations that do a great job staying focused with their music (102.3 WXLC and Star 105.5 in the north suburbs, and Star 96.7 in the south suburbs). So there is hope for the format in the future.
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jun 11, 2010 21:50:40 GMT -5
Excellent posts by bother of you. I think you are spot on, unfortunately. My HotAC did change to a more modern AC last year. I don't like it quite as well but I don't have to listen to the new BEPs songs either. I don't like their new stuff at all. When my station switched, they dropped a song like How Far We've Come by MB20, and picked up Little Wonders by Rob Thomas. My favorite format is HotAC that leans rock/alternative. Does that station even exist anymore? As I stated above, try listening to KSTP in Minneapolis online. Even while adding the occasional Lady Gaga song, they have stayed focused on the traditional sound of the format while leaning more Modern AC. Here is a recent sample hour from their playlist: Angel Taylor - Like You Do Ingrid Michaelson - Maybe Black Eyed Peas - I Gotta Feeling Jet - Are You Going To Be My Girl OneRepublic - Stop And Stare The Script - Breakeven Nickelback - Far Away Shinedown - If You Only Knew Rob Thomas - Lonely No More Uncle Kracker f/Kid Rock - Good To Be Me The Fray - How To Save A Life O.A.R. - Shattered (Turn The Car Around) Michael Franti & Spearhead - Shake It! This is how a Hot AC station should sound. This particular BEP song was a mega hit that appealed to all age groups, while the Michael Franti song is receiving some Triple A airplay. So basically you are not seeing the blantant CHR songs that really don't fit the format, but again, I don't have a big problem with Lady Gaga as she has a straight ahead dance-pop sound that appeals to everyone. The problem arises when the likes of Ke$ha, Jay-Z and B.O.B are added to a so-called Hot AC station. This is when a Hot AC station morphs into a CHR station, and contrary to popular belief, not every member of a certain age group would like this format even if they were raised on the CHR format when they were younger. Many listeners outgrow the teen music, and that's why there should always be a place for a properly programmed Hot AC station in each market.
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jun 11, 2010 21:56:27 GMT -5
These days, our HotAC station would closer resemble an American CHR. While we have reasonable play counts (our powers get played 4-5 times a day), our music is fresh and fun, while still adult friendly. Our announcers are young and vibrant, but they know where the line in drawn. It's taken a lot of work, but it's a good balance. Through market research, and nearly daily interaction with our listeners, we've been able to provide a HotAC station that works for Kelowna. And, for the record, we're now the #1 station in town. Your station sounds like a great station. But it should be called what it is, and that is a mainstream CHR or at the very least an adult CHR, somewhat different from a Hot AC.
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KelownaGuy20
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Post by KelownaGuy20 on Jun 12, 2010 0:34:51 GMT -5
These days, our HotAC station would closer resemble an American CHR. While we have reasonable play counts (our powers get played 4-5 times a day), our music is fresh and fun, while still adult friendly. Our announcers are young and vibrant, but they know where the line in drawn. It's taken a lot of work, but it's a good balance. Through market research, and nearly daily interaction with our listeners, we've been able to provide a HotAC station that works for Kelowna. And, for the record, we're now the #1 station in town. Your station sounds like a great station. But it should be called what it is, and that is a mainstream CHR or at the very least an adult CHR, somewhat different from a Hot AC. While our station does lean CHR, by definition, we're a HotAC. Heck, you can say that of almost all Canadian HotAC stations. Our version of "HotAC" differs north of the border. A Jay-Z song on HotAC may sound suspect to some, but at the same time, all the songs we play test well with our target demo of 24-39 year old women. And THAT is what makes us a HotAC format. Because we program to that age breakdown. Honestly, I don't even really look at formats as music. I view formats as demos, and those demos can be different by market, and as such, music can be different. A HotAC in Kelowna, British Columbia could be entirely different than one in Los Angeles. But you're dealing with two completely different markets. If you ask me, a CHR station can play a Lifehouse or Train song if those songs appeal to demographics the station is trying to reach. Likewise, I see no reason why a HotAC station couldn't spin a Ke$ha or B.o.B. track for the same reason. But it's the manner in which those songs are presented to your demo that determines how well you get away with something like this, and to an extent, what you can define your station as.
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Libra
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Post by Libra on Jun 12, 2010 6:34:44 GMT -5
I'm guessing that Chicago has a station that officially is CHR, but in reality is heavily rap-leaning? I can't help but notice a correlation there. It seems like more "official" CHRs may be inspired to in fact go rap-leaning and be allowed to get away with it without being re-classified. Because if they were re-classified...those stations would go Rhythmic, while some current HACs would go Pop, and who knows? Either some current ACs would go HAC, or new HACs could pop up. If you ask me, though, stuff like Kesha and Black Eyed Peas stretching to Hot AC is hip hop being forced outward as far as radio big shots want to push it. Pink...not so much, her material does fit the format. (A more questionable example is Katy Perry. Her Top 5s, Hot N Cold - which hit #2 - and Waking Up in Vegas? I'd say those fit fine. But California Gurls, which currently has an absolutely ridiculous bullet? No.) If you ask me, a CHR station can play a Lifehouse or Train song if those songs appeal to demographics the station is trying to reach. Likewise, I see no reason why a HotAC station couldn't spin a Ke$ha or B.o.B. track for the same reason. But it's the manner in which those songs are presented to your demo that determines how well you get away with something like this, and to an extent, what you can define your station as. Oh, of course. But I worry that this will also be the justification for more big-city station markets to skew several stations "Urban"-ized a la L.A. even when their demographics don't warrant doing so, just because the argument will be something like, "Oh, they're a big city! They're Urban! They've gotta have more Urban music!"
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Jun 12, 2010 10:49:55 GMT -5
You guys should check out WWMX/Baltimore...its power rotation is 85x a week, and it's playin everything from the CHR Top 10 - I'm just tryin to figure out why they'd wanna stay classified as HAC
IMO if a station has its powers set in the 70s/80s it's clearly focusing on current hits and as long as it plays all kinds of music it should be classified CHR
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jun 12, 2010 13:22:04 GMT -5
Your station sounds like a great station. But it should be called what it is, and that is a mainstream CHR or at the very least an adult CHR, somewhat different from a Hot AC. While our station does lean CHR, by definition, we're a HotAC. Heck, you can say that of almost all Canadian HotAC stations. Our version of "HotAC" differs north of the border. A Jay-Z song on HotAC may sound suspect to some, but at the same time, all the songs we play test well with our target demo of 24-39 year old women. And THAT is what makes us a HotAC format. Because we program to that age breakdown. Honestly, I don't even really look at formats as music. I view formats as demos, and those demos can be different by market, and as such, music can be different. A HotAC in Kelowna, British Columbia could be entirely different than one in Los Angeles. But you're dealing with two completely different markets. If you ask me, a CHR station can play a Lifehouse or Train song if those songs appeal to demographics the station is trying to reach. Likewise, I see no reason why a HotAC station couldn't spin a Ke$ha or B.o.B. track for the same reason. But it's the manner in which those songs are presented to your demo that determines how well you get away with something like this, and to an extent, what you can define your station as. Agreed with you that it seems like most formats are defined less by what is played and more by the demo they are trying to target. And again, I don't mind some pop being played on Hot AC stations. But too much of a good thing so to speak I think would not always please the core, forcing many towards other more conservative formats. Also, aren't most CHR's targeting that same female 24-39 demo? If so, then you can have both the Hot AC and CHR formats targeting the same demo, but they would have the choice of listening to the more current driven CHR format, or the more conservative Hot AC format. Regardless, it will be interesting to see how the ratings battle continues to play out between longtime Chicago Hot AC the Mix and the new "mainstream AC" Fresh 105.9. This will go a long way towards seeing what listeners like in terms of current music. I do agree though that our Hot AC's down here in the states are now beginning to follow the same path that the Canadian version of the format has been following for years.
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jun 12, 2010 13:30:01 GMT -5
I'm guessing that Chicago has a station that officially is CHR, but in reality is heavily rap-leaning? I can't help but notice a correlation there. It seems like more "official" CHRs may be inspired to in fact go rap-leaning and be allowed to get away with it without being re-classified. Because if they were re-classified...those stations would go Rhythmic, while some current HACs would go Pop, and who knows? Either some current ACs would go HAC, or new HACs could pop up. If you ask me, though, stuff like Kesha and Black Eyed Peas stretching to Hot AC is hip hop being forced outward as far as radio big shots want to push it. Pink...not so much, her material does fit the format. (A more questionable example is Katy Perry. Her Top 5s, Hot N Cold - which hit #2 - and Waking Up in Vegas? I'd say those fit fine. But California Gurls, which currently has an absolutely ridiculous bullet? No.) If you ask me, a CHR station can play a Lifehouse or Train song if those songs appeal to demographics the station is trying to reach. Likewise, I see no reason why a HotAC station couldn't spin a Ke$ha or B.o.B. track for the same reason. But it's the manner in which those songs are presented to your demo that determines how well you get away with something like this, and to an extent, what you can define your station as. Oh, of course. But I worry that this will also be the justification for more big-city station markets to skew several stations "Urban"-ized a la L.A. even when their demographics don't warrant doing so, just because the argument will be something like, "Oh, they're a big city! They're Urban! They've gotta have more Urban music!" Yes, our "mainstream CHR" is the heavily rhythmic leaning Clear Channel Kiss 103.5. There's not a huge difference between their playlist and heritage rhythmic CHR B-96. But don't tell that to Clear Channel who continues to classify Kiss 103.5 as a mainstream CHR! Regarding "California Gurls", that actually fits the Hot AC format very well IMO due to its retro feel (I think it samples an old Prince song), and due to the popularity of Katy Perry. But you're right Rune Knight, she does straddle that line between Hot AC artist and CHR artist. But there is a reason for that. She like say Lady Gaga appeals to 10 years olds as much as she appeals to 50 olds. So those two artists I don't mind hearing on Hot AC radio.
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jun 12, 2010 13:32:12 GMT -5
You guys should check out WWMX/Baltimore...its power rotation is 85x a week, and it's playin everything from the CHR Top 10 - I'm just tryin to figure out why they'd wanna stay classified as HAC IMO if a station has its powers set in the 70s/80s it's clearly focusing on current hits and as long as it plays all kinds of music it should be classified CHR Yeah, that's just ridiculous! Ditto for WKRQ in Cincinnati. Maybe they are still classified as Hot AC stations because they don't spin their powers 130 to 150+ times a week like a couple of CHR stations have done in recent months (no joke!)!
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KelownaGuy20
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Post by KelownaGuy20 on Jun 12, 2010 15:42:17 GMT -5
You guys should check out WWMX/Baltimore...its power rotation is 85x a week, and it's playin everything from the CHR Top 10 - I'm just tryin to figure out why they'd wanna stay classified as HAC IMO if a station has its powers set in the 70s/80s it's clearly focusing on current hits and as long as it plays all kinds of music it should be classified CHR See, now 70-80 spins a week seems obsessive. It goes back to presentation. I don't think it's possible to spin a power 80 times a week, and target a working woman. That would equate to a song being played every 2.5 hours or so. It's too much. One of the reasons they MAY want to stay classified as a HotAC is because HotAC is easier to sell than CHR. When my station launched in the late 90s, it was classified as a CHR station, and lemme tell you, our sales people had a hard time getting clients to sign on because CHR stations are associated with 12-25 year olds, a group of people who don't normally have a lot of throwaway cash. By tweaking our format and becomming more adult friendly, we were able to sign on those clients who wanted to sell appliances, condos, even cars. CHR stations tend to have a client base of fast food establishments, clubs, and cell phone providers, and if your market doesn't necessarily provide those, a CHR is a tough sell.
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KelownaGuy20
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Post by KelownaGuy20 on Jun 12, 2010 15:54:53 GMT -5
Agreed with you that it seems like most formats are defined less by what is played and more by the demo they are trying to target. And again, I don't mind some pop being played on Hot AC stations. But too much of a good thing so to speak I think would not always please the core, forcing many towards other more conservative formats. Also, aren't most CHR's targeting that same female 24-39 demo? If so, then you can have both the Hot AC and CHR formats targeting the same demo, but they would have the choice of listening to the more current driven CHR format, or the more conservative Hot AC format. Regardless, it will be interesting to see how the ratings battle continues to play out between longtime Chicago Hot AC the Mix and the new "mainstream AC" Fresh 105.9. This will go a long way towards seeing what listeners like in terms of current music. As I just said in my last post, CHR seems to target a younger audience with a different mindset than a HotAC listener. Clubs, cell phones, McDonalds, etc. Most CHR stations aren't necessarily interested in anybody over the age of 30. The last-place country station here in Kelowna flipped formats a few months ago to a more conservative HotAC station. They wanted to be a cross between my station (the HotAC), and the AC station here in town. Playing the best HotAC music, but the best familiar music from the 80s and 90s. Plenty of golds, plenty of recurrents, no rap. That was their game. When ratings were released a couple weeks ago, it was revealed that they had LOST HALF of their audience. They took a last place station, and plunged it further into the hole. Why? They were trying to be too broad in their approach. They programmed a HotAC for women 18-49. There's WAAAAAYYY too much going on there. Their music is all over the board. Their announcers sound too old for the format. There were a number of contributing factors. But ultimately, it's a case of programming for your demo. They chose a format that was more than covered in town, and programmed it wrong. They'd have been better off trying to be a CHR and picking up the 12-24s not already listening to SunFM.
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Post by MostInterestingManInTheWorld on Jun 12, 2010 19:36:44 GMT -5
I feel that the formats are moving as their audience matures. Like the AC of today is becoming the HOT AC of the 2000s. The HOT AC of today is becoming the POP of of 2000s. While POP is simply the driving force in new music. But I think AC has done this transition much quicker than the HOT AC has done. A good example I think would be Sarah McLachlan's new stuff. It's taking off on AC, while HOT AC has barely touched it. Like 7 years ago Sarah McLachlan was a core HOT AC artist, not so much a AC artist. Afterglow gave Sarah 3 top 20 HOT AC hits while Fallen peaked at like #12 on AC. Meanwhile artist that were considered core AC artist 10 years ago are having trouble on the AC chart. Songs from Celine Dion, Phil Collins and others have done much less than they would have done 10 years ago on AC. I think the AC of today has basically become like HOT AC- but AC just plays their stuff longer and a few songs are different. In fact a few weeks ago I was curious, and so I combined the two charts. There wasn't even a major difference. Even today if the charts were combined a few songs would re-enter the chart but that is basically it. AC isn't playing anything that HOT AC isn't other than 8 songs. And most of those songs are from artist who were once core AC artist, but no longer. AC basically plays HOT AC music. And I wonder why haven't the two charts been combined, I really see no point in an AC chart. I personally hate the changes. HOT AC is my favorite format. But I espically loved the early 2000 years. That is when HOT AC played all the great artist from the 90s like McLachlan, Crow, Collective Soul, Jewel, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and AC was still playing artist from the 80s. Now both HOT AC and AC have jumped to playing artist from the 00s. In 2000 HOT AC and AC wouldn't have touched Pink- and now she is a core artist. I wish there was still a format where Collective Soul and all those other great artist could score a decent hit. I'm tired of HOT AC and AC playing the same thing. This. One could track an established artist's progression as follows: 0) Underground artist who can't buy a hit. 1) Alternative or Rock or Rhythmic or Country 2) CHR 3) Hot AC 4) AC 5) Can't get a hit anywhere As mentioned in the quote, Sarah McLachlan is in Stage 4 (I very much remember 1994 when she was in Stage 1 - Alternative), whereas Celine Dion/Phil Collins have entered the painful Stage 5. Stage 6 could be "county fair circuit". I've mentioned on various occasions that you have to look at the demographics of the target audience as opposed to the actual music. Tastes change - whether that's a function of the market guiding the audience or vice versa is worthy of a longthread discussion. But the fact remains that we can't expect the sound of most stations, particularly CHR and Hot AC, to stay static.
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Post by The Party Captain on Jun 12, 2010 21:22:00 GMT -5
When my station launched in the late 90s, it was classified as a CHR station, and lemme tell you, our sales people had a hard time getting clients to sign on because CHR stations are associated with 12-25 year olds, a group of people who don't normally have a lot of throwaway cash. By tweaking our format and becomming more adult friendly, we were able to sign on those clients who wanted to sell appliances, condos, even cars. CHR stations tend to have a client base of fast food establishments, clubs, and cell phone providers, and if your market doesn't necessarily provide those, a CHR is a tough sell. Fantastic post. It's amazing how many people just don't get this. Hot AC is a stronger market. Another thing that gives Hot AC staying power is you can trust it to be professional. It is easy to compare CHR and Hot AC to the Super Bowl halftime shows. A U2/Bruce Springsteen plays well to the Hot AC crowd and you can trust them not to expose themselves and cause controversy like the last CHR-like show (Wardrobe Malfunction, Kid Rock, etc.). CHR is fun. CHR is wild. But you can't listen to it during a 9 to 5 during the week. You don't hear Eminem in grocery stores, nor should you. I don't want to be hearing "Fack" while combing through lettuce heads.
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Post by The Party Captain on Jun 12, 2010 21:36:17 GMT -5
I personally hate the changes. HOT AC is my favorite format. But I espically loved the early 2000 years. That is when HOT AC played all the great artist from the 90s like McLachlan, Crow, Collective Soul, Jewel, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and AC was still playing artist from the 80s. Now both HOT AC and AC have jumped to playing artist from the 00s. In 2000 HOT AC and AC wouldn't have touched Pink- and now she is a core artist. I wish there was still a format where Collective Soul and all those other great artist could score a decent hit. I'm tired of HOT AC and AC playing the same thing. Radio takes its directives from music, which like any form of art has to contain a fluid and rather uncalculated form of change in order to maintain interest. Has there always been bands like Collective Soul since radio began to grow in the first half of the 20th century. No! As much as I love Collective Soul, I don't listen to them all day. I'd hate the sound of Ed Roland's voice after a while. That's the same reason we aren't all listening to Bach or big band these days. It's all about the spirit of the times. The two most important elements of music are predictability and variation. Hot AC must stick to its norm, but rare and different facets are always being introduced. The path of a playlist must have stability but still have scenery and the occasional jawdropper. Are we more affected by the music we expect or the music that we find new and spontaneous to us? All formats slowly change. We need change or we grow stale in the sun.
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jun 13, 2010 10:16:16 GMT -5
Agreed with you that it seems like most formats are defined less by what is played and more by the demo they are trying to target. And again, I don't mind some pop being played on Hot AC stations. But too much of a good thing so to speak I think would not always please the core, forcing many towards other more conservative formats. Also, aren't most CHR's targeting that same female 24-39 demo? If so, then you can have both the Hot AC and CHR formats targeting the same demo, but they would have the choice of listening to the more current driven CHR format, or the more conservative Hot AC format. Regardless, it will be interesting to see how the ratings battle continues to play out between longtime Chicago Hot AC the Mix and the new "mainstream AC" Fresh 105.9. This will go a long way towards seeing what listeners like in terms of current music. As I just said in my last post, CHR seems to target a younger audience with a different mindset than a HotAC listener. Clubs, cell phones, McDonalds, etc. Most CHR stations aren't necessarily interested in anybody over the age of 30. The last-place country station here in Kelowna flipped formats a few months ago to a more conservative HotAC station. They wanted to be a cross between my station (the HotAC), and the AC station here in town. Playing the best HotAC music, but the best familiar music from the 80s and 90s. Plenty of golds, plenty of recurrents, no rap. That was their game. When ratings were released a couple weeks ago, it was revealed that they had LOST HALF of their audience. They took a last place station, and plunged it further into the hole. Why? They were trying to be too broad in their approach. They programmed a HotAC for women 18-49. There's WAAAAAYYY too much going on there. Their music is all over the board. Their announcers sound too old for the format. There were a number of contributing factors. But ultimately, it's a case of programming for your demo. They chose a format that was more than covered in town, and programmed it wrong. They'd have been better off trying to be a CHR and picking up the 12-24s not already listening to SunFM. All great points kelownaguy19, especially your points discussing selling the format. I guess I just think there still is room for a format for adults that don't like hearing rap or too much pop on their station. But I guess that's what mainstream AC is for. :) And again just to clarify, I like seeing a lot of the pop crossover product doing well on Hot AC. I was only questioning those few stations on the panel that are basically mainstream CHR's reporting as Hot AC's. But I guess their target demo says they are better off reporting as Hot AC instead.
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jun 13, 2010 10:18:48 GMT -5
The two most important elements of music are predictability and variation. Hot AC must stick to its norm, but rare and different facets are always being introduced. The path of a playlist must have stability but still have scenery and the occasional jawdropper. Are we more affected by the music we expect or the music that we find new and spontaneous to us? All formats slowly change. We need change or we grow stale in the sun. I agree 100% with the above statement Ninja. As I stated above though, I just think there are a few stations on the Hot AC panel that have added too much "scenery" and too many jawdroppers, if you know what I mean.
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Post by The Party Captain on Jun 13, 2010 20:35:53 GMT -5
I heard "Ridin' Solo" today on my local Hot AC and I just wanted to put heads on the chopping block.
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jun 13, 2010 21:48:52 GMT -5
I heard "Ridin' Solo" today on my local Hot AC and I just wanted to put heads on the chopping block. Uhhh, yeah. You see, this is my issue. Again I'm glad to see HAC's changing with their audience, and it's nice to see the likes of Lady Gaga and other adult appealing pop artists do well here. But when the format starts embracing harder edged rap music (and I'm not even talking Ke$ha or BEP here), then you know there are some identity issues that the format needs to work out.
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atlantaboy
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Post by atlantaboy on Jun 15, 2010 19:45:42 GMT -5
One of the reasons they MAY want to stay classified as a HotAC is because HotAC is easier to sell than CHR. Ahhh...that actually makes sense
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wavetunes
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Post by wavetunes on Jun 16, 2010 13:38:24 GMT -5
The way I look at HAC vs CHR is that they are similar charts with songs getting different peaks on each, well, with a few exceptions. Lately, even some rap songs are making the HAC chart. Hot AC is beginning its transition to what a lot of us would call CHR/Pop I agree. Thanks for this thread, Pete! :)
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jun 16, 2010 18:06:21 GMT -5
The way I look at HAC vs CHR is that they are similar charts with songs getting different peaks on each, well, with a few exceptions. Lately, even some rap songs are making the HAC chart. Hot AC is beginning its transition to what a lot of us would call CHR/Pop I agree. Thanks for this thread, Pete! :) No problem wavetunes. :) I think this is a subject that needs to be discussed as the sound of this format has been shifting for awhile now. Now perhaps I underestimated the Hot AC stations that have been slowly segueing towards a CHR/Pop sound for sometime now. In reference to my original post, the May PPM ratings came out today. WTMX rose from a 3.9 to 4.2 12+ share and moved to #5 in Chicago, while WCFS dropped from a 2.0 to a 1.8 12+ share and is now tied for 23rd in the market! So I guess the Mix knows what they are doing. In all fairness though, Fresh 105.9 does suffer from lackluster hosts and a fairly tight playlist, so that could be a big factor in the ratings. The lack of a heritage morning show doesn't help them either. Now what the Mix is doing is fine, but there is still the matter of what format to call the station. I agree with the various posts that mentioned that calling oneself a Hot AC station is a lot more attractive for advertisers. And that's what these borderline CHR/Pop stations will probably continue to do for awhile. The question remains though just how far they can go and still get away with being called Hot AC. Only time will tell.
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Hervard
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Post by Hervard on Jun 17, 2010 18:32:18 GMT -5
Slightly off-topic...does Fresh 105.9 still carry Randy Jackson's Hit List?
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musicfanpete
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Post by musicfanpete on Jun 17, 2010 20:56:01 GMT -5
Slightly off-topic...does Fresh 105.9 still carry Randy Jackson's Hit List? No. They aired late last year when the station made a brief format tweak to Hot AC. Since the beginning of the year though they have gone back to a mainstream AC format, though very bright for a mainstream AC and therefore very little difference in their playlist. However at that time they dropped Randy Jackson since they technically don't play some of the songs on his countdown. That's why I have had issues posting his chart, considering he doesn't post it every week.
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†ealsünset
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Post by †ealsünset on Sept 9, 2010 11:59:19 GMT -5
My local HAC station just started leaning pop as of this month. KFYV-FM Oxnard-Ventura, (105.5 FM) Hot AC Owner: Gold Coast Broadcasting CompanyPD: Brian Davislw: Aug 26 - Sep 1 TW: Sep 2 - Sep 8 87 9 MIKE POSNER Cooler Than Me 33 2 31 0.0225 79 10 JASON DERULO In My Head 29 2 27 0.0206 82 14 KE$HA Your Love Is My Drug 24 2 22 0.0168 86 18 KATY PERRY Teenage Dream 24 2 22 0.0168 77 21 TAIO CRUZ Break Your Heart f/Ludacris 21 2 19 0.0141 84 28 LADY GAGA Alejandro 18 2 16 0.012 76 29 BLACK EYED PEAS I Gotta Feeling 16 2 14 0.01 85 31 LADY GAGA Bad Romance 16 2 14 0.0124 75 33 B.O.B Airplanes f/Hayley Williams 15 2 13 0.0114 0 34 KE$HA Tik Tok 15 0 15 0.0108 83 35 LA ROUX Bulletproof 15 2 13 0.0102 81 42 ENRIQUE IGLESIAS I Like It f/Pitbull 12 2 10 0.0075 0 45 SHONTELLE Impossible 12 0 12 0.0081 Kind of late to start playing TiK ToK! I wonder if these adds will make any difference with the HotAC chart in general.
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Rumors
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Post by Rumors on Sept 9, 2010 17:41:52 GMT -5
I listen to a medium market Clear Channel Hot AC. I few weeks they have been running ads that at 7:00pm listen in to hear all the current hits. They then play pieces of songs by BOB, Kesha, Justin Bieber, etc. Songs that they definitely aren't playing turning the day. Clear Channel testing the waters here for some format shake-ups? Darn shame.
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