Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Jun 20, 2013 8:27:20 GMT -5
I don't think so, I posted the criteria (that they have published) in this thread Rock and Roll is specifically mentioned, to me that does not imply all music released since 1955 But with current sources like Billboard, VH1, or Rolling Stone, the "Rock & Roll" era is really meant to be since 1955.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 8:33:53 GMT -5
I don't think so, I posted the criteria (that they have published) in this thread Rock and Roll is specifically mentioned, to me that does not imply all music released since 1955 But with current sources like Billboard, VH1, or Rolling Stone, the "Rock & Roll" era is really meant to be since 1955. "Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record. Criteria include the influence and significance of the artist’s contribution to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll." What do you think this means?
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Jun 20, 2013 8:35:49 GMT -5
Please tell me that you've heard of rock and roll as an all encompassing term for music before, right?!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 8:37:28 GMT -5
The posted criteria:
"Artists become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record. Criteria include the influence and significance of the artist’s contribution to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll."
What do you think this means?
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MikeCheck12
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Post by MikeCheck12 on Jun 20, 2013 9:00:12 GMT -5
I think it absolutely encompasses all music. Here are some quotes from Joel Peresman, the current CEO & President of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Nomination Committee. (Pulled from Future Rock Legends futurerocklegends.com/blog_files/Definition_of_Rock_and_Roll.html ) The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation’s president and CEO, Joel Peresman, has a difficult job. Every year, he has to try to find new ways to remind people that their definition of “rock and roll” is not just white guys playing electric guitars. All quotes from Joel Peresman (emphasis ours): 2013: “The definition of ‘rock and roll’ means different things to different people, but as broad as the classifications may be, they all share a common love of the music. This year we again proudly put forth a fantastic array of groups and artists that span the entire genre that is ‘rock and roll’.” 2012: “The 2012 Nominees embody the broad scope of what ‘rock and roll’ means. From vocal groups to hip hop, from singer-songwriters to hard rocking artists, this group represents the spirit of what we celebrate at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.” 2012: “We are pleased to announce this year’s Hall of Fame inductees, who represent the broad spectrum of artists that define rock and roll.” 2011: “We believe our nominating committee has put forth a list of artists that truly represent the wide variety of music that defines rock and roll.” 2011: “We are pleased to welcome these artists and executives into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They truly represent the variety of people that have defined and continue to influence music and the business of Rock and Roll.”
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Jun 20, 2013 9:19:32 GMT -5
The rock genre does dominate, but, yes, it does consider all genres, no matter that it says "rock and roll" in the criteria- you just have to look at the acts who have been inducted.
I think country has been under-represented, but the Country Hall of Fame preceded the Rock Hall by some 25 years, so the Rock Hall may figure that that's sufficient for country acts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 9:27:04 GMT -5
The rock genre does dominate, but, yes, it does consider all genres, no matter that it says "rock and roll" in the criteria- you just have to look at the acts who have been inducted. I think country has been under-represented, but the Country Hall of Fame preceded the Rock Hall by some 25 years, so the Rock Hall may figure that that's sufficient for country acts. That's where I see the "influence" criteria coming into play. Let's take Madonna as an example. Has Madonna had any influence towards this genre or any others? I think you will be the first to say yes. ;) What about Barbra Streisand? What about all other manufactured sound alike pop acts that happened to get a few #1 hits?
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Jun 20, 2013 9:36:28 GMT -5
What about Barbra Streisand?
Beyonce, Mariah Carey, Toni Braxton... um, almost every singer on Broadway?!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 9:38:46 GMT -5
What about Barbra Streisand? Beyonce, Mariah Carey, Toni Braxton... um, almost every singer on Broadway?! How does that influence the development and perpetuation of rock and roll?
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Jun 20, 2013 9:43:06 GMT -5
Who cares? Babs' influence can be found in several female artists who have been influenced by her one way or another, just like Cher who was also popular in more than one medium of entertainment.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 9:46:50 GMT -5
Who cares? Babs' influence can be found in several female artists who have been influenced by her one way or another, just like Cher who was also popular in more than one medium of entertainment. I don't disagree with your statement but as it applies to the rock and roll hall of fame, I think you might be missing something. Cher isn't in the rock hall either.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 10:25:09 GMT -5
Let me pose this question to the group to approach this from a different angle.
Barbra Streisand, Whitney Houston, Cher, etc. have had multiple hits, multiple hit albums and were at one point (and maybe still are) widely recognized as being at the top of the music world.
In each case, their first recordings are older than 25 years so they would be eligible for induction into the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame.
Why do people think they have not been inducted?
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Post by Push The Button on Jun 20, 2013 10:27:26 GMT -5
For one, none of them write their own music. Haven't Sonny and Cher been nominated in the past?
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MikeCheck12
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Post by MikeCheck12 on Jun 20, 2013 10:45:01 GMT -5
Sonny and Cher have not been nominated.
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renfield75
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Post by renfield75 on Jun 20, 2013 11:34:07 GMT -5
If it's strictly about influence on "rock and roll" then how did ABBA and the Bee Gees get in before/in place of Cheap Trick, Rush, KISS, Heart, etc? Why did Van Halen need several years of eligibility to get inducted? Their influence on literal "rock and roll" is significantly greater than Madonna's or Donna Summer's.
I would argue that Thin Lizzy, Boston, and Iron Maiden have made as much or more of an impact on rock than the Dave Clark Five or the Buffalo Springfield. Kurt Cobain acknowledged that "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was just his take on the riff from Boston's "More Than A Feeling"
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MikeCheck12
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Post by MikeCheck12 on Jun 20, 2013 13:14:24 GMT -5
The Nomination Committee is to blame. Jann Wenner has taken quite a bit of heat. Apparently, if he doesn't like a band or an artist (insert Kiss here) they'll have little chance for a nomination.
I think they should induct more than 5 artists annually, too.
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cking33
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Post by cking33 on Jun 20, 2013 13:25:33 GMT -5
Re: Carole King, there are numerous instances of the same person being elected more than once. If the solo career warranted inclusion, it would have been Just for fun the list(all in twice - except Eric Clapton who made it 3 times): Eric Clapton (3 time inductee) Jeff Beck Johnny Carter David Crosby George Harrison Michael Jackson John Lennon Curtis Mayfield Paul McCartney Clyde McPhatter Graham Nash Jimmy Paige Paul Simon Rod Stewart Stephen Stills Sammy Strain Ronnie Wood Neil Young Re Adele: The album may be big but it is not rock n roll, that makes her a long shot Re Pat Benetar: Still touring at age 60, will not add to a hall of fame resume, lots of artists still tour into their 60s All others mentioned above: commercial hits are not a criteria Interesting to see that list ... it's all men! No woman has been inducted twice. Interesting.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Jun 20, 2013 13:59:17 GMT -5
Having a hand in writing your own material is fine, but it doesn't necessarily mean the committee will give any preference to that. It all depends on the material and how it's viewed. Elvis Presley and Aretha Franklin had little to do with the composition of their best music.
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renfield75
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Post by renfield75 on Jun 20, 2013 15:34:19 GMT -5
Re: Carole King, there are numerous instances of the same person being elected more than once. If the solo career warranted inclusion, it would have been Just for fun the list(all in twice - except Eric Clapton who made it 3 times): Eric Clapton (3 time inductee) Jeff Beck Johnny Carter David Crosby George Harrison Michael Jackson John Lennon Curtis Mayfield Paul McCartney Clyde McPhatter Graham Nash Jimmy Paige Paul Simon Rod Stewart Stephen Stills Sammy Strain Ronnie Wood Neil Young Re Adele: The album may be big but it is not rock n roll, that makes her a long shot Re Pat Benetar: Still touring at age 60, will not add to a hall of fame resume, lots of artists still tour into their 60s All others mentioned above: commercial hits are not a criteria Interesting to see that list ... it's all men! No woman has been inducted twice. Interesting. The few women who could possibly get in twice are clearly not going to at this point. Diana Ross's inclusion with the Supremes seems good enough for the hall, and while Joan Jett may still get in it doesn't look too good for the Runaways. Janis Joplin is considered synonymous with Big Brother & The Holding Company so they never got in as a separate entity. I doubt either Courtney Love or Hole will get in. Beyonce may be inducted but I don't think Destiny's Child has a shot. Any other possibilities?
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Keelzit
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Post by Keelzit on Jun 20, 2013 22:16:31 GMT -5
I've always wondered what the 'rock era' term means. Is it about the music genre or something else like the 'rock' way of living which still doesn't make any sense but whatever.
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Jun 20, 2013 22:23:09 GMT -5
I've always wondered what the 'rock era' term means. Is it about the music genre or something else like the 'rock' way of living which still doesn't make any sense but whatever. Basically the real transition from big band / swing / jazz standards to actual modern sounding music with guitars. I.E. the names Little Richard, Elvis Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis, Buddy Holly would be the first names that really kickstarted the "rock & roll" era. This song right here is what really jumpstarted the Rock & Roll era in the U.S.: One of the best selling songs of all time.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Jun 21, 2013 7:22:22 GMT -5
For those who like to see how acts fare with critical features/lists, the Acclaimed Music site (acclaimedmusic.net) has been updated to include 2010-2012 albums/songs- and some all-time lists were added, as well. There remains a number of all-time/decade lists that have yet to be added, but this surely gives you an idea of how acts are regarded in the critical realm.
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MikeCheck12
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Post by MikeCheck12 on Aug 8, 2013 10:08:59 GMT -5
It's about that time for the NomCom to start their nomination "discussions", no?
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Aug 8, 2013 10:11:00 GMT -5
If Chic doesn't get in next year even after the mega success of Daft Punk's "Get Lucky", then they're not getting in until Nile Rodgers passes away. :(
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Aug 8, 2013 10:30:49 GMT -5
The nominees usually are announced in late September? I think the committee meets early next month.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Aug 9, 2013 10:44:52 GMT -5
*waits for 2015*
;)
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Aug 9, 2013 12:48:26 GMT -5
^Would be nice for a certain someone, but, based on past trends, it's not likely she will get nominated in her first year of eligibility. In fact, there are no real no-brainers among those who released their first record in 1990.
This year, it's all about Nirvana.
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swim
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Post by swim on Aug 12, 2013 1:02:02 GMT -5
It's definitely going to be about Nirvana!!
The year after Nirvana, Green Day will be the big name on the list for first time eligibility. I think they can get in. Overall, their albums have aged well. It probably won't hurt either that 2014 is when Dookie turns 20 and American Idiot turns 10. It would be crazy for the band to not celebrate the year with some sort of massive tour and reissues. I think it may push them over the top to easily get in on the first time.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Aug 28, 2013 10:55:27 GMT -5
Future Rock Legends makes its predictions for the nominees: www.futurerocklegends.com/2014_Nomination_Predictions.phpThe Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominating Committee will meet in early September to determine the nominees for the 2014 induction ceremony. Future Rock Legends predicts the following fifteen eligible artists will be on the 2014 ballot: Artists who have recently been nominated...* Chic - Chic has obviously been kicking around the Rock Hall ballot for years now (nominated seven times), but there has never been the kind of momentum surrounding their candidacy like there has been this year. Thanks in large part to his collaboration with Daft Punk, Nile Rodgers is having a career resurgence and is being exposed to a new generation of fans. Just last year, Chic came in dead last in the Rock Hall's fan poll for the 2013 induction, pulling in just 1% of the vote. That seems destined to change this year now that Rodgers is being recognized as one of the all time hitmakers. Current Induction Chances: 42% * The Paul Butterfield Blues Band - Last year, we successfully predicted their return to the ballot after a lengthy absence because Jann Wenner and Paul Shaffer discussed in an interview they were pulling for them. Current Induction Chances: 15% * Procol Harum - Speaking of personal crusades, Steven Van Zandt seems to have adopted Procol Harum as his next Rock Hall project for induction. Little Steven usually gets what he wants. Current Induction Chances: 39% * The Spinners - Metallica's manager, Cliff Burnstein, has only been on the Rock Hall's Nominating Committee for a couple of years, but he has emerged as one of its most influential members. During his short tenure, long time Rock Hall snubs Rush (Burnstein used to manage them), Deep Purple (Metallica has been outspoken about getting them in) and The Spinners (apparently a personal favorite) have all made the ballot for the first time. Current Induction Chances: 8% * Deep Purple - Deep Purple were fan favorites in the polls last year, second only to Rush. The Rock Hall has been slightly more populist recently, so Deep Purple should get another opportunity. Current Induction Chances: 45% * N.W.A - N.W.A picked up a nomination in their first eligible year in 2013 and shouldn't have to wait too much longer before getting inducted. Current Induction Chances: 42% * Kraftwerk - Kraftwerk came in sixth place in the Rock Hall's official fan poll last year. That shows that the massive influence of the band is not entirely lost on the public. Current Induction Chances: 57% * Joan Jett & the Blackhearts - Joan Jett has a new album coming out this fall which includes a collaboration with Dave Grohl. How convenient. Current Induction Chances: 16% * Bon Jovi - Do you remember the 12-12-12 Concert for Sandy Relief last year? Remember when Bruce Springsteen brought out Jon Bon Jovi during "Born to Run"? And then Bruce returned during Bon Jovi's set for "Who Says You Can't Go Home"? Maybe we're crazy, but it felt like Bon Jovi was officially welcomed into Bruce's circle that night. All of the recent drama this summer with Richie Sambora isn't helping Bon Jovi's candidacy, but maybe a Rock Hall nomination will bring them all back together. Current Induction Chances: 35% * Joe Tex - We have noted this before, but Nominating Committe member Dave Marsh wrote the bio for Joe Tex at allmusic.com. ("His raspy-voiced, jackleg preacher style also laid some of the most important parts of rap's foundation. He is, arguably, the most underrated of all the '60s soul performers associated with Atlantic Records...") Tex was previously nominated in 1998, 2006, 2007 and 2011. Current Induction Chances: 6% Now for artists predicted to make the ballot for the first time...* Nirvana - They are #30 on Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Artists of All Time list and the only artist in the top 50 that isn't already in the Hall of Fame. The only thing that could keep them from being inducted is if the Rock Hall doesn't consider them being eligible yet ("Love Buzz" was released as a single in 1988, but their first album, Bleach, came out in 1989. Technically they should be eligible this year, but the Rock Hall does weird stuff sometimes.) Current Induction Chances: 81% * De La Soul - Touré is the most vocal of the hip hop advocates on the Nominating Committee and he has expressed a passion for Del La Soul in the past. If they do make the ballot, they will be extreme long shots for induction this year. Current Induction Chances: 41% * Stevie Ray Vaughan - At the 2013 Induction Ceremony, John Mayer spoke about how Stevie Ray Vaughan was his gateway to learning about older blues greats like Freddie King. After four years without even a nomination, it's finally time to get Vaughan in the Hall of Fame with the other blues legends. Current Induction Chances: 26% * Linda Ronstadt - This year, Don Henley called it "travesty" that Ronstadt hadn't been inducted yet. Current Induction Chances: 29% * Yes - Yes has been one of the bands the prog/metal subcommittee has been evaluating for years now. With Rush getting inducted this year, there should be one fewer obstacle in the way of Yes finally getting a nomination. Current Induction Chances: 40%
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Aug 28, 2013 11:06:07 GMT -5
Let's hope Linda Ronstadt gets in now that she is ill.
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