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Post by countrymusic20 on Feb 24, 2013 10:25:34 GMT -5
SCANDALOUS!! :o She has 200+ spins LESS than Tim, and 2 million AI LESS than Tim, and somehow she has more points to get #1 over Tim?! WTF?!!???!!!!!!!!!! I did NOT see it coming this week. Word on the row is Big Machine has been begging radio to give all the Tim spins to Taylor this week. Their research said that this week was their only chance to get this struggling Taylor song #1 and Tim's researching so strong that he's still guaranteed the top spot next week. If I were Tim's camp I'd be pissed cuz he's about to get "Borchetta'd" out of a 2 or 3 week number one ... and Borchetta is supposed to be his guy too. This is radio promo bs at it's finest with Borchetta doing everything he can to still prop Taylor up at country radio.
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Post by Spacey_Kacey on Feb 24, 2013 10:39:13 GMT -5
Well Tim can't be too mad when he's likely going to get Billboard even if Taylor doesn't collapse overnight, and he will likely get Billboard again next week because "Tornado" will not be catching up to him. He still has his multi-week hit. And he has to partially thank Taylor for not releasing a 3rd country single from Red yet just so he can get another big hit off his album, which will likely get him a CMA for Collaboration.
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Post by countrymusic20 on Feb 24, 2013 10:58:02 GMT -5
Well Tim can't be too mad when he's likely going to get Billboard even if Taylor doesn't collapse overnight, and he will likely get Billboard again next week because "Tornado" will not be catching up to him. He still has his multi-week hit. And he has to partially thank Taylor for not releasing a 3rd country single from Red yet just so he can get another big hit off his album, which will likely get him a CMA for Collaboration. Tim releasing the Tim/Taylor/KU collaboration shouldn't have any effect on BM releasing another single off Red or not. Taylor's big enough that it shouldn't matter ... if there was another song on Red that they thought country radio would play. With Taylor's success at Top 40 and album and single sales right now, Big Machine probably won't waste any more money on country radio promo ... she'll be on the radio on the Tim song. But don't think they wouldn't fire off another single off Red if they thought country radio wanted it.
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Feb 24, 2013 11:17:48 GMT -5
Well her label already knows that 'Highway Don't Care' is going to be one of the year's very biggest singles, which will enable them to keep Taylor on the radio for the next several months, since there's a huge hole for her airplay-wise at the format because of the unprecedented crash & burn job which 'WANEGBT' went through.
If they decide not to send another single from 'Red' to country radio, and there's a very wide range of opinions on this board regarding that issue, 'Highway Don't Care' will be it as it relates to having her voice on country radio for the next six-plus months alongside her older recurrents.
She has no songs currently among the top 50 most-played recurrents either.
I agree that Tim was going to get at least two weeks at #1, but that might not happen now, which makes me sick.
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Zazie
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Post by Zazie on Feb 24, 2013 11:36:22 GMT -5
Why even have charts if you're going to manufacture the outcome this way? Why not just declare a given song a "#1 hit" and not bother to release it at all?
I remember when the BDS airplay detection method all of a sudden gave us real charts, back in 1990, and that system took awhile for the labels to cheapen the charts and ruin them all over again. And then, when we had some phony chart syndrome resurfacing, going back to impressions instead of spins made at least the Billboard chart look realistic for awhile. But now they've "succeeded" at wrecking the charts at a higher level than I thought possible.
Sad day for me. And it doesn't cheer me up to notice that not only is the Swift song going to be #1 for about ten minutes, but it "achieves" that with fewer spins and impressions than the song that should be #1.
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ericNY2002
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Post by ericNY2002 on Feb 24, 2013 12:28:32 GMT -5
The trades might as well go back to ranking the songs by just spins like every other format. There's no point in having a convoluted point system or rank songs based by impressions when every other format just goes by spins, Especially when the charts will be manipulated no matter what system is used.
Big Machine must've mastered the Mediabase point formula to know the stations and time of day to get their songs played to get to #1. This is at least the 2nd time a Taylor Swift song has gotten a big jump to to get to #1 on Mediabase on Sunday just in time to end the chart week.
Taylor also has the very rare feat of having the #1 song on both the pop and country simulationously with different songs as I Knew You Were Trouble hangs on to #1 on the pop chart this week as well.
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dfrogger
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Post by dfrogger on Feb 24, 2013 12:40:58 GMT -5
Why even have charts if you're going to manufacture the outcome this way? Why not just declare a given song a "#1 hit" and not bother to release it at all? I remember when the BDS airplay detection method all of a sudden gave us real charts, back in 1990, and that system took awhile for the labels to cheapen the charts and ruin them all over again. And then, when we had some phony chart syndrome resurfacing, going back to impressions instead of spins made at least the Billboard chart look realistic for awhile. But now they've "succeeded" at wrecking the charts at a higher level than I thought possible. Sad day for me. And it doesn't cheer me up to notice that not only is the Swift song going to be #1 for about ten minutes, but it "achieves" that with fewer spins and impressions than the song that should be #1. Well said Zazie...all I can say is that I guess "payola" is alive and well in 2013! I know not nice but that is how I feel!
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Post by Living Legend on Feb 24, 2013 12:42:29 GMT -5
I wonder if Taylor will get 2 performance slots at the ACM's this year. I'm pretty sure she'll join Tim & Keith for "Highway Don't Care" but I'd think she'd also get her own slot being an EOTY nominee. That would be a good time to deliver an amazing performance of "All Too Well" and shut up all her naysayers.
It will be interesting to see if they wait a little bit to release the next single to radio. I personally think it wouldn't make a difference if both her single and Tim's are charting at the same time. Maybe they'll just wait until after the ACM's to send it to radio. "Highway Don't Care" will probably peak in Late April/Early May anyway.
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dfrogger
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Post by dfrogger on Feb 24, 2013 12:48:45 GMT -5
I wonder if Taylor will get 2 performance slots at the ACM's this year. I'm pretty sure she'll join Tim & Keith for "Highway Don't Care" but I'd think she'd also get her own slot being an EOTY nominee. That would be a good time to deliver an amazing performance of "All Too Well" and shut up all her naysayers. It will be interesting to see if they wait a little bit to release the next single to radio. I personally think it wouldn't make a difference if both her single and Tim's are charting at the same time. Maybe they'll just wait until after the ACM's to send it to radio. "Highway Don't Care" will probably peak in Late April/Early May anyway. I do not think people are being "naysayers" towards Taylor but instead towards the system in which is being manipulated. jmo
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Post by Living Legend on Feb 24, 2013 12:55:57 GMT -5
I wonder if Taylor will get 2 performance slots at the ACM's this year. I'm pretty sure she'll join Tim & Keith for "Highway Don't Care" but I'd think she'd also get her own slot being an EOTY nominee. That would be a good time to deliver an amazing performance of "All Too Well" and shut up all her naysayers. It will be interesting to see if they wait a little bit to release the next single to radio. I personally think it wouldn't make a difference if both her single and Tim's are charting at the same time. Maybe they'll just wait until after the ACM's to send it to radio. "Highway Don't Care" will probably peak in Late April/Early May anyway. I do not think people are being "naysayers" towards Taylor but instead towards the system in which is being manipulated. jmo Sorry, I wasn't really referring to the charts. I just hear a lot of silly comments from the outside about her not having any substance and releasing juvenile music blah blah blah, especially after her Grammy performance. I think a performance of "All Too Well" will show people what a stellar songwriter she is and I think her vocal delivery on that song will shock a lot of those people. I'm not surprised about this hitting #1 at all. I knew Big Machine wouldn't just let this peak at #5 like so many suggested. According to Billboard's call out it has been doing very positively so I think it deserves #1. I thought it wouldn't happen until next week, but that's country radio for you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2013 13:08:11 GMT -5
Just like I mentioned... Never doubt Big Machine...
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Taylor.
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Post by Taylor. on Feb 24, 2013 13:16:57 GMT -5
Uh. Well. Yay?
She's not going to get the Billboard #1, so Tim still has that. I think it would have made more sense and seemed less manipulated if they'd waited until next week, but alas. I'm just glad this song this songs chart run is over (presumably). Hoping they release another single and don't just use HDC.
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layne
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Post by layne on Feb 24, 2013 13:34:51 GMT -5
Well her label already knows that 'Highway Don't Care' is going to be one of the year's very biggest singles, which will enable them to keep Taylor on the radio for the next several months, since there's a huge hole for her airplay-wise at the format because of the unprecedented crash & burn job which 'WANEGBT' went through. If they decide not to send another single from 'Red' to country radio, and there's a very wide range of opinions on this board regarding that issue, 'Highway Don't Care' will be it as it relates to having her voice on country radio for the next six-plus months alongside her older recurrents. She has no songs currently among the top 50 most-played recurrents either. I agree that Tim was going to get at least two weeks at #1, but that might not happen now, which makes me sick. Just curious, what makes you feel so confident that HDC will be one of the biggest songs of the year? The last few collaborations by format superstars have underperformed imo. Do you think this song is superior or you just think the Taylor factor will help it sale? I really can't imagine they won't send out another single to the Country format. With the ACM's and CMA's coming up etc, I think she will want another song out there.
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joey2002
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Post by joey2002 on Feb 24, 2013 14:15:44 GMT -5
How on earth does MB formulate their points system???
Spins
Tim: 6665 Taylor: 6441
Audience
Tim: 52.684 Taylor: 50.347
Rank
Tim: 2 Taylor: 1
Difference
Tim: +224 Spins +2.337 Audience
???
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someguy
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Post by someguy on Feb 24, 2013 15:52:18 GMT -5
How on earth does MB formulate their points system??? SpinsTim: 6665 Taylor: 6441 AudienceTim: 52.684 Taylor: 50.347 RankTim: 2 Taylor: 1 DifferenceTim: +224 Spins +2.337 Audience ??? Makes no sense. I had wondered if a song's bullet also factored in, but a couple of weeks ago when "Begin Again" passed "Tornado", "Tornado" had more spins, more AI and a bigger bullet, so there goes that. I think it's pretty safe to say that only Mediabase and Big Machine know how it works.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2013 16:43:48 GMT -5
Good heavens, this is the most ridiculous thing I've seen. I like Taylor and I like her music (for the most part) but I can't stand by and support such ridiculous things like the blatant chart manipulation here. Y'all can go ahead and say "aw, they figured it out and worked things out so nicely...and it's ok because Tim still gets his #1 on Billboard!" but that ain't gonna cut it for me.
How things like this don't cause a major grumble within the radio industry is beyond me. I'm a big chart-watching fan but this takes all the fun out of it. I mean, I know Big Machine has pushed like crazy plenty of times before but this is a new level of pushing for them. I was literally stunned to see this at #1 this morning. I don't care if this song was doing well on Callout America, because it wasn't doing that well on most other call-out charts, it's been selling much less than most other top 10 songs...and since Thanksgiving it's been spinning it wheels. And no, that's not an exaggeration...the weekly gains prove it.
I'm just appalled. This may very well fall faster than Brad's SCZ and Rascal Flatts' CWMU, but that won't even make me feel marginally better.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 24, 2013 18:12:45 GMT -5
In looking at the Mediabase chart, "Begin Again" has a spin gain of 850 in the past week. No other song in the top 50 has a gain of even 700 spins. Kenny Chesney's "Pirate Flag" is the only other song that has a gain of over 500 spins. Considering how old "BA" is, there was obviously some label antics here. Why anyone celebrates radio hits at this point, I can't know.
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Feb 24, 2013 18:45:43 GMT -5
When it comes to the 'stinks to high heaven' scoreboard, this certainly approaches the 'Somebody' fiasco episode of 2004 as it relates to reprehensibility.
Also, there is no way that 'Highway Don't Care' will peak in early May, which is a mere 9 weeks away; it's not a going to scorch the charts and rise to #1 that fast as some of Kenny Chesney's recent singles have done, in spite of her blowing-the-doors-off sales acumen when combined with his robust airplay muscle, and having them on the same record.
They're some 2,900 spins behind 'Pirate Flag', so let's see how many weeks it takes for that margin to evaporate dramatically.
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on Feb 24, 2013 19:35:21 GMT -5
When it comes to the 'stinks to high heaven' scoreboard, this certainly approaches the 'Somebody' fiasco episode of 2004 as it relates to reprehensibility. Would you be able to summarize what happened with that song for me? I've heard it mentioned many times but I don't know any of the specifics.
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Post by Old Fart In NC on Feb 24, 2013 19:48:36 GMT -5
^I'm sure somebody else can do better than me with respect to specifics, but if I recall back then the chart was based on spins rather than AI. I believe Reba's label somehow talked enough stations into giving the song enough spins during overnight hours when most people are asleep to push the song to #1 for a week.
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jesster
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Post by jesster on Feb 24, 2013 20:46:03 GMT -5
I can't speak to the chart maneuvering but I'm happy to see this get to #1 on mb. It's one of her more appealing recent radio songs IMO, and miles and miles and miles ahead of that last single which was a radio dial-changer for me.
Tim's song is ok, but nothing out of the norm for him so it doesn't bother me as they switch positions as far as the merit goes.
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Post by countrymusic20 on Feb 24, 2013 21:25:51 GMT -5
I can't speak to the chart maneuvering but I'm happy to see this get to #1 on mb. It's one of her more appealing recent radio songs IMO, and miles and miles and miles ahead of that last single which was a radio dial-changer for me. Tim's song is ok, but nothing out of the norm for him so it doesn't bother me as they switch positions as far as the merit goes. Just heard Tim is #1 on Billboard ... So at least he didn't get screwed on both charts. Just because Taylor finally put out a decent song for country radio doesn't mean that it deserves to go #1 as a result of radio promo shenanigans.
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zaclord 🌈
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Post by zaclord 🌈 on Feb 24, 2013 21:59:17 GMT -5
Mediabase's point system is based on "weight" and the "weight" is based upon how many listeners the station that is playing the song is reaching. So if a larger station plays "Begin Again" one time today, it will be worth more "weight" than if a smaller station plays "Begin Again" one time today. Also, if a station is playing the song during the day, it is worth more "weight" than if a song is played overnight when not as many people are listening. So basically this "weight" is a measure of how valuable each spin is for a song.
Now I'm not sure who at Mediabase has deemed the "weight" as a more accurate tool than just taking the overall audience impressions for songs to determine their point total, but in instances like this, I don't see how it can be.
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Feb 24, 2013 23:18:36 GMT -5
In the case of 'Somebody', it mysteriously gained 1,000+ spins in its twenty-ninth week on the charts which was enough for it to replace 'Live Like You Were Dying' at #1 for a single week @ Billboard after Tim's tune had spent three weeks at #1.
'LLYWD' returned to the #1 slot at BB the following week and went on to spend four more weeks on top before it was displaced at #1 for keeps by Terri Clark's 'Girls Lie Too'.
In spite of that deplorable single-week airplay spike by 'Somebody', it missed the #1 spot at R&R/Mediabase by some 35 spins.
'LLYWD' went on to spend 10 weeks at #1 @ R&R until 'Days Go By' replaced it at #1 @ R&R on Sept. 17 for a three-week stay.
That was certainly a downright reprehensible episode anyway you slice it, but this might be worse.
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on Feb 25, 2013 6:59:52 GMT -5
Thanks for the info on "Somebody". :)
Tim is back to #1 on Mediabase today. I'm really looking forward to see how fast Taylor will manage to fall in the coming weeks (I presume their push is over). From what I can tell looking at Kworb's archives, "Southern Comfort Zone" fell from #1 all the way to #23 with recurrents in two weeks. I wonder if Taylor will be able to beat that!
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desertfloods
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Post by desertfloods on Feb 25, 2013 9:36:41 GMT -5
Good heavens, this is the most ridiculous thing I've seen. I like Taylor and I like her music (for the most part) but I can't stand by and support such ridiculous things like the blatant chart manipulation here. Y'all can go ahead and say "aw, they figured it out and worked things out so nicely...and it's ok because Tim still gets his #1 on Billboard!" but that ain't gonna cut it for me. Yup. That's how I feel too. I enjoy her music generally, but all these constant manipulations takes the enjoyment out of following her "achievements" to be honest, especially the recent ones. The sad thing is, she doesn't even need the "cheating" way most of the time.
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rjz
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Post by rjz on Feb 25, 2013 10:14:51 GMT -5
Not a Taylor fan per se, but I do really like this song and think it deserves #1. Yes, from snippets I've heard, seems to be the only real country song on the album, but I don't think that should detract from the song on its own merit.
I do agree the manipulation of 'the system' is appalling, but what else is new in modern radio?? Whether it is a label pushing a song for a lengthy period of time that just keeps it hanging in there by buying/trading spins to stay positive until it can't anymore and we are all sick of it clogging the charts , playing inferior male singles at the expense of great female songs, giving mediocre songs like Pirate Flag a fast ride up (hey, I like Kenny a lot-but really?), refusing to play good country songs because the artist isn't 'country enough' or the on the hour play shenanigans for male superstars newly released.
Shrug.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Feb 25, 2013 10:24:49 GMT -5
This is how Big Machine saves itself after We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together.
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Feb 25, 2013 11:10:25 GMT -5
Countryhistorian--I'll respectfully disagree with you here; in no way can this be considered anything other than Big Machine trying to get a real bad taste out of their month for the "WANEGBT' crash-and-burn job extraordinaire.
The chart run for Taylor's tune was substantially worse than those for either 'Feel Like a Rockstar' or 'Truck Yeah'; that really goes to show that if you're going to pull one of those spin-per-hour launches, you'd better have a song which merits such a strategy, unless you've got a can of Pledge as big as Texas to get rid of the stench!!
I never cared for 'more Than A Memory' either, but the fact that WQYK/Tampa played it 125 times in its opening week cannot be defended with a straight face.
Methinks that Mr. Borchetta really likes those 'hollow victories' a lot, doesn't he?
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Feb 25, 2013 11:28:42 GMT -5
Is Jason Aldean's song the only one of those CC deals to actually become a real hit?
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