Billboard Hot 100: 03/02/13

[Deleted]

If everyone in this thread who said something like "RIP Billboard I am done following this chart" actually quit following this chart, next weeks thread might only be 2 pages long.

I bet everything will be fine after the initial fuss is over.

[Arabella21]

There were plenty of #1 songs that "most people" didn't know in the "old days". Maybe stuff like The Macarena or Single Ladies had permeated pop culture, but Laffy Taffy, or all those Idol coronation songs that disappeared after three weeks? But they got to top the Hot 100. I mean, how "opposite of cutting edge" is Jay Leno, and even his show featured a Harlem Shake parody more than a week ago.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

I think Billboard needs to tweak their formula a bit and the whole 30 second clip nonsense well...eeek! The song really isn't popular by itself. Billboard should be tracking the song not the array of videos. I'm not sure how you accurately and consistently measure what billboard is attempting to measure with adding Youtube to the mix. There are so many complicating factors with including Youtube at the high rate they did.

[Deleted]

I think it's also fair to note that despite there being a lot of 30 second Harlem Shake videos, a very big portion of them are compilation videos... 6 minute long videos with 10 Harlem Shake videos combined. So it's not just 30 second clips, it evens out somewhat.

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

Feb 22, 2013 7:33:59 GMT -5 Arabella21 said:

There were plenty of #1 songs that "most people" didn't know in the "old days". Maybe stuff like The Macarena or Single Ladies had permeated pop culture, but Laffy Taffy, or all those Idol coronation songs that disappeared after three weeks? But they got to top the Hot 100. I mean, how "opposite of cutting edge" is Jay Leno, and even his show featured a Harlem Shake parody more than a week ago.

Its been all over the media and got 262k in downloads with no airplay at all. The charts should be heavily sales based. Record companies are in the business of selling music. That will tone down the noise a bit....and billboard needs to count videos in 2.5minute increments for the purposes of the chart. It doesnt exclude 30second videos but it will take four of them to equal a stream.

[Ballroom Blitzed]

Like I said, if this was any other song it probably wouldn't have caused as much of a kerfuffle (it would have provoked controversy, there's no doubt about that, especially if it had been "I Knew You Were Trouble", for reasons that don't bear discussing here). I think it's the fact that "Harlem Shake" looks like such an obvious "insubstantial meme video" that it's caused as much hassle as it has.

[Deleted]

Feb 22, 2013 9:15:37 GMT -5 Ballroom Blitzed said:

Like I said, if this was any other song it probably wouldn't have caused as much of a kerfuffle (it would have provoked controversy, there's no doubt about that, especially if it had been "I Knew You Were Trouble", for reasons that don't bear discussing here). I think it's the fact that "Harlem Shake" looks like such an obvious "insubstantial meme video" that it's caused as much hassle as it has.

and if Rihanna or someone else were knocked out of number one instead of 'Thrift Shop' (a song people here used to not like) then this thread would be twice what it is.



Actually I think they are griping about the 30 second clips.

[Deleted]

Feb 22, 2013 9:12:21 GMT -5 Adonis the DemiGod! said:

Feb 22, 2013 7:33:59 GMT -5 Arabella21 said:

There were plenty of #1 songs that "most people" didn't know in the "old days". Maybe stuff like The Macarena or Single Ladies had permeated pop culture, but Laffy Taffy, or all those Idol coronation songs that disappeared after three weeks? But they got to top the Hot 100. I mean, how "opposite of cutting edge" is Jay Leno, and even his show featured a Harlem Shake parody more than a week ago.

Its been all over the media and got 262k in downloads with no airplay at all. The charts should be heavily sales based. Record companies are in the business of selling music. That will tone down the noise a bit....and billboard needs to count videos in 2.5minute increments for the purposes of the chart. It doesnt exclude 30second videos but it will take four of them to equal a stream.

My take on the 30 second clip issue

This is the clip that brought the song into popularity. This is what sent it to the top of itunes. This is what the buzz is about.

If there were no 30 second clip, it would not have done as well.

I see no issues with it working it to the formula that made it #1

[Quixotic Music Lover]

Feb 22, 2013 7:32:01 GMT -5 @2m said:

If everyone in this thread who said something like "RIP Billboard I am done following this chart" actually quit following this chart, next weeks thread might only be 2 pages long.

I bet everything will be fine after the initial fuss is over.

Not if they keep including 30 second parodies of a song! If they stuck with just tracking the watching of the "official" music videos on Youtube, then I think they could make a convincing case that the HOT 100 is sitll the barometer for what is hot in pop music.

When I read comments from people who have subscribed to Billboard for 40+ years (on Facebook) who think the HOT 100 is now a joke, or from a fan of the song "Harlem Shake" saying that the margin of victory of 3.5 x is ridiculous, then I have to conclude that the Billboard chart department screwed up big time.

Ironically Billboard used to be criticized for being to slow to change, to conservative (e.g. not allowing radio only songs to chart in the late 90s). Now it is the opposite. They seem to make major changes in secrecy and in a hurry (I wonder if they still run test charts for several months and share with the music industry to get feedback).

More reason to follow the digital songs and on demand songs charts. At least with those consumers actually have to spend money to listen to the music.

[Deleted]

Feb 22, 2013 9:35:54 GMT -5 Quixotic Music Lover said:

Feb 22, 2013 7:32:01 GMT -5 @2m said:

If everyone in this thread who said something like "RIP Billboard I am done following this chart" actually quit following this chart, next weeks thread might only be 2 pages long.

I bet everything will be fine after the initial fuss is over.

Not if they keep including 30 second parodies of a song! If they stuck with just tracking the watching of the "official" music videos on Youtube, then I think they could make a convincing case that the HOT 100 is sitll the barometer for what is hot in pop music.

When I read comments from people who have subscribed to Billboard for 40+ years (on Facebook) who think the HOT 100 is now a joke, or from a fan of the song "Harlem Shake" saying that the margin of victory of 3.5 x is ridiculous, then I have to conclude that the Billboard chart department screwed up big time.

Ironically Billboard used to be criticized for being to slow to change, to conservative (e.g. not allowing radio only songs to chart in the late 90s). Now it is the opposite. They seem to make major changes in secrecy and in a hurry (I wonder if they still run test charts for several months and share with the music industry to get feedback).

More reason to follow the digital songs and on demand songs charts. At least with those consumers actually have to spend money to listen to the music.

See my post above. It appears that the 30 second clip is at the moment anyway the 'official' video. This is what made the song popular.

Regarding being slow to change: I think they were extremely slow. Allowing videos should have happened a long time ago

[forg]

Is the full Hot 100 posted here?

[Deleted]

yes, usually easy to find in a normal week. Now you need to search back several pages for it

[Quixotic Music Lover]

Feb 22, 2013 9:33:03 GMT -5 @2m said:

Feb 22, 2013 9:12:21 GMT -5 Adonis the DemiGod! said:

Its been all over the media and got 262k in downloads with no airplay at all. The charts should be heavily sales based. Record companies are in the business of selling music. That will tone down the noise a bit....and billboard needs to count videos in 2.5minute increments for the purposes of the chart. It doesnt exclude 30second videos but it will take four of them to equal a stream.

My take on the 30 second clip issue

This is the clip that brought the song into popularity. This is what sent it to the top of itunes. This is what the buzz is about.

If there were no 30 second clip, it would not have done as well.

I see no issues with it working it to the formula that made it #1

Okay, if that is the case, then why does Billboard not include the previewing of songs on Itunes or other digital music sites. I never buy a song before I preview it. Shouldn't that preview count the same as a 30 second video clip? Or for that matter should listening to a 30 second video clip and falling in love with the song, be any different then hearing a song for the first time on the radio (1 audience impression)?

I am not trying to be difficult, I am just trying to understand the reasoning behind the change that resulted in the #1 song outranking the #2 song 3.5 times! (Only "Candle In The Wind 1997 had a bigger lead, and that was based consumer purchases).

[forg]

There I found it!

Feb 21, 2013 7:24:25 GMT -5 @2m said:

Hot 100

This Week Last Week Two Weeks Ago Weeks Title, Artist Peak
1 0 Hot Shot Debut 1 Harlem Shake, Baauer 1
2 1 1 20 Thrift Shop, Macklemore & Ryan Lewis Featuring Wanz 1
3 57 – 2 Stay, Rihanna Featuring Mikky Ekko 3
4 3 3 12 Scream & Shout, will.i.am & Britney Spears 3
5 5 5 18 I Knew You Were Trouble., Taylor Swift 2
6 4 4 37 Ho Hey, The Lumineers 3
7 2 2 20 Locked Out Of Heaven, Bruno Mars 1
8 9 22 9 When I Was Your Man, Bruno Mars 8
9 8 13 6 Suit & Tie, Justin Timberlake Featuring Jay Z 4
10 63 – 2 Started From The Bottom, Drake 10
11 6 6 22 Don't You Worry Child, Swedish House Mafia Featuring John Martin 6
12 15 26 28 I Will Wait, Mumford & Sons 12
13 7 14 11 Daylight, Maroon 5 7
14 12 12 24 Girl On Fire, Alicia Keys Featuring Nicki Minaj 11
15 11 8 16 F**kin Problems, A$AP Rocky Featuring Drake, 2 Chainz & Kendrick Lamar 8
16 10 7 19 Beauty And A Beat, Justin Bieber Featuring Nicki Minaj 5
17 14 10 15 Sweet Nothing, Calvin Harris Featuring Florence Welch 10
18 13 9 17 Try, P!nk 9
19 23 21 5 Love Me, Lil Wayne Featuring Drake & Future 16
20 43 65 7 Carry On, fun. 20
21 18 11 21 Diamonds, Rihanna 1
22 34 37 7 Pour It Up, Rihanna 22
23 16 16 37 It's Time, Imagine Dragons 15
24 0 New 1 Mirrors, Justin Timberlake 24
25 19 19 17 Catch My Breath, Kelly Clarkson 19
26 48 46 24 Gangnam Style, PSY 2
27 35 41 29 Adorn, Miguel 17
28 24 24 52 Some Nights, fun. 3
29 30 34 43 Wanted, Hunter Hayes 16
30 17 15 34 Home, Phillip Phillips 6
31 22 20 39 Little Talks, Of Monsters And Men 20
32 20 23 32 The A Team, Ed Sheeran 16
33 25 30 21 Hall Of Fame, The Script Featuring will.i.am 25
34 21 17 35 One More Night, Maroon 5 1
35 29 27 9 C'Mon, Ke$ha 27
36 42 47 59 Somebody That I Used To Know, Gotye Featuring Kimbra 1
37 33 33 25 Radioactive, Imagine Dragons 33
38 38 39 6 Sure Be Cool If You Did, Blake Shelton 38
39 31 29 16 Better Dig Two, The Band Perry 28
40 39 35 14 I'm Different, 2 Chainz 27
41 50 50 10 Two Black Cadillacs, Carrie Underwood 41
42 27 25 27 Swimming Pools (Drank), Kendrick Lamar 17
43 32 45 12 One Of Those Nights, Tim McGraw 32
44 49 57 5 Troublemaker, Olly Murs Featuring Flo Rida 44
45 0 New 1 One Way Or Another (Teenage Kicks), One Direction 45
46 37 36 10 All Gold Everything, Trinidad James 36
47 55 76 4 Feel This Moment, Pitbull Featuring Christina Aguilera 47
48 28 18 21 I Cry, Flo Rida 6
49 40 43 17 Poetic Justice, Kendrick Lamar Featuring Drake 40
50 36 28 21 Die Young, Ke$ha 2
51 72 80 8 Kiss You, One Direction 51
52 41 31 20 Every Storm (Runs Out Of Rain), Gary Allan 26
53 53 53 16 Wicked Games, The Weeknd 53
54 52 52 15 Tornado, Little Big Town 52
55 60 61 24 Sail, AWOLNATION 55
56 54 58 13 Somebody's Heartbreak, Hunter Hayes 54
57 61 64 11 Neva End, Future 57
58 45 – 2 Downtown, Lady Antebellum 45
59 44 32 18 Don't Stop The Party, Pitbull Featuring TJR 17
60 26 – 2 My Songs Know What You Did In The Dark (Light Em Up), Fall Out Boy 26
61 62 67 7 I Drive Your Truck, Lee Brice 61
62 51 40 15 The Only Way I Know, Jason Aldean With Luke Bryan & Eric Church 40
63 88 100 3 Loveeeeeee Song, Rihanna Featuring Future 63
64 69 – 2 R.I.P., Young Jeezy Featuring 2 Chainz 64
65 71 75 20 Begin Again, Taylor Swift 7
66 70 68 10 Who Booty, Jonn Hart Featuring IamSU! 66
67 74 82 4 Mama's Broken Heart, Miranda Lambert 67
68 67 63 10 Merry Go 'Round, Kacey Musgraves 63
69 66 70 13 Tip It On Back, Dierks Bentley 66
70 75 74 16 Don't Judge Me, Chris Brown 67
71 68 – 2 Pirate Flag, Kenny Chesney 68
72 77 85 4 Get Your Shine On, Florida Georgia Line 72
73 65 51 20 How Country Feels, Randy Houser 42
74 80 87 7 Give It All We Got Tonight, George Strait 74
75 79 83 7 If I Didn't Have You, Thompson Square 75
76 64 55 18 Ball, T.I. Featuring Lil Wayne 50
77 0 New 1 Bugatti, Ace Hood Featuring Future & Rick Ross 77
78 73 71 10 Stubborn Love, The Lumineers 70
79 78 72 13 Remember You, Wiz Khalifa Featuring The Weeknd 63
80 82 62 14 Little Things, One Direction 33
81 84 79 10 Love Sosa, Chief Keef 56
82 100 90 4 Dope, Tyga Featuring Rick Ross 68
83 0 Re-Entry 18 Skyfall, Adele 8
84 0 New 1 Just Give Me A Reason, P!nk Featuring Nate Ruess 84
85 86 73 19 Anything Could Happen, Ellie Goulding 47
86 81 81 8 Battle Scars, Lupe Fiasco & Guy Sebastian 73
87 58 54 20 Southern Comfort Zone, Brad Paisley 54
88 83 69 3 I Love It, Icona Pop Featuring Charli XCX 69
89 76 66 8 Cups, Anna Kendrick 64
90 87 78 18 Va Va Voom, Nicki Minaj 22
91 0 New 1 Power Trip, J. Cole Featuring Miguel 91
92 98 – 4 Love And War, Tamar Braxton 57
93 92 84 10 Guap, Big Sean 71
94 85 77 19 Goodbye In Her Eyes, Zac Brown Band 48
95 0 Re-Entry 2 Wagon Wheel, Darius Rucker 95
96 0 New 1 She Don't Put It Down, Joe Budden Featuring Lil Wayne & Tank 96
97 97 – 2 I Can Take It From There, Chris Young 97
98 91 88 9 Crying On A Suitcase, Casey James 88
99 0 New 1 Alive, Krewella 99
100 0 New 1 Hold On, Alabama Shakes 100

[forg]

Cups didn't benefit that much with the YouTube thing.

Anyway, good thing Try made it to the top 10 before the rule change

Gangnam Style up sharply

Somebody That I Used to Know will join the 60 weeks club next week

Skyfall re-entered. Curious how her Oscar performance of the song (and likely win) affect the rankings next week

[Deleted]

Feb 22, 2013 10:12:11 GMT -5 Quixotic Music Lover said:

Feb 22, 2013 9:33:03 GMT -5 @2m said:

My take on the 30 second clip issue

This is the clip that brought the song into popularity. This is what sent it to the top of itunes. This is what the buzz is about.

If there were no 30 second clip, it would not have done as well.

I see no issues with it working it to the formula that made it #1

Okay, if that is the case, then why does Billboard not include the previewing of songs on Itunes or other digital music sites. I never buy a song before I preview it. Shouldn't that preview count the same as a 30 second video clip? Or for that matter should listening to a 30 second video clip and falling in love with the song, be any different then hearing a song for the first time on the radio (1 audience impression)?

I am not trying to be difficult, I am just trying to understand the reasoning behind the change that resulted in the #1 song outranking the #2 song 3.5 times! (Only "Candle In The Wind 1997 had a bigger lead, and that was based consumer purchases).

I understand what you are saying. We will just have to wait and see I think. At issue is a 'flash in the pan' novelty song. I don't think you will see this every week

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

Feb 22, 2013 9:33:03 GMT -5 @2m said:

Feb 22, 2013 9:12:21 GMT -5 Adonis the DemiGod! said:

Its been all over the media and got 262k in downloads with no airplay at all. The charts should be heavily sales based. Record companies are in the business of selling music. That will tone down the noise a bit....and billboard needs to count videos in 2.5minute increments for the purposes of the chart. It doesnt exclude 30second videos but it will take four of them to equal a stream.

My take on the 30 second clip issue

This is the clip that brought the song into popularity. This is what sent it to the top of itunes. This is what the buzz is about.

If there were no 30 second clip, it would not have done as well.

I see no issues with it working it to the formula that made it #1

That may be true but billboard isn't counting only one video for it's chart for this song. It's counting an array of various videos for the purpose of their HOT 100 songs chart.

It's the same type of thing as selling a song for free on iTunes or for 1 cent.

[thebops]

Hello! The Genre debacle from last fall is what brought me to find Pulse and the YouTube issue is what is causing me to make my initial post here.

Two points:

1) The 30-second clips argument - consider this extreme hypothetical example: I have a dog who can sing along and basically vocalize to the words of "Love Sosa" by Chief Keef (I have no idea what this song is, I just picked it from the lower half of the current Hot 100). I record a 10 second clip of my dog doing this with "Love Sosa" playing in the background and it goes viral. Leno, Letterman, the Today Show all play it because no one has ever seen a dog do what my dog can do. Chief Keef skyrockets up the chart due to all the views. Is this legit? No one gives a rat's a** about the actual song; relatively few views of the official Chief Keef video get played but everyone plays my dog video. Billboard I suppose would rationalize that it is a very popular song since so many people are hearing it when playing the video, even if it is only a small 10 second portion of the actual song. Which brings me to...

2) The video vs audio issue - Question: does Billboard count video purchases through the iTunes store? If not, then why wouldn't they since now they count YouTube plays? The bigger picture here is that if this is the first time Billboard is counting anything related to video then this is groundbreaking and I'm not sure I agree with it. If Rihanna or Beyonce put out a video wearing next to no clothing, does a guy who watches the video 5 times in a row with the sound muted just because the singer is hot make that a popular song? It makes it a popular video but is it really a popular song? All of the other formulas that go into the Hot 100 are audio based only with no visual component to it. This is now changing.

To be fair though we have to realize that HS is right there near the top of the digital sales chart, so there are some people anyway who are buying the song because they apparently actually like the song as opposed to just wanting to watch it for the dopey people who are dancing.

[imbondz]

Can someone figure out where Harlem Shake would have ranked pre-horrible chart policy change?

If it's a matter of it being 2 or 3 anyways, then it's not that big of a deal to me. I can't stand that 30 second VIDEO clips are being considered for chart points. That makes zero sense to me. A song is a song. A song is not a 30 second or 1 minute sample of the song.

[Deleted]

1) I don't think that would count because it isn't official audio.

[Deleted]

Feb 22, 2013 11:08:51 GMT -5 imbondz said:

Can someone figure out where Harlem Shake would have ranked pre-horrible chart policy change?

If it's a matter of it being 2 or 3 anyways, then it's not that big of a deal to me. I can't stand that 30 second VIDEO clips are being considered for chart points. That makes zero sense to me. A song is a song. A song is not a 30 second or 1 minute sample of the song.

It would have debuted top 15

[imbondz]

Feb 22, 2013 11:07:58 GMT -5 thebops said:

Hello! The Genre debacle from last fall is what brought me to find Pulse and the YouTube issue is what is causing me to make my initial post here.

Two points:

1) The 30-second clips argument - consider this extreme hypothetical example: I have a dog who can sing along and basically vocalize to the words of "Love Sosa" by Chief Keef (I have no idea what this song is, I just picked it from the lower half of the current Hot 100). I record a 10 second clip of my dog doing this with "Love Sosa" playing in the background and it goes viral. Leno, Letterman, the Today Show all play it because no one has ever seen a dog do what my dog can do. Chief Keef skyrockets up the chart due to all the views. Is this legit? No one gives a rat's a** about the actual song; relatively few views of the official Chief Keef video get played but everyone plays my dog video. Billboard I suppose would rationalize that it is a very popular song since so many people are hearing it when playing the video, even if it is only a small 10 second portion of the actual song. Which brings me to...

2) The video vs audio issue - Question: does Billboard count video purchases through the iTunes store? If not, then why wouldn't they since now they count YouTube plays? The bigger picture here is that if this is the first time Billboard is counting anything related to video then this is groundbreaking and I'm not sure I agree with it. If Rihanna or Beyonce put out a video wearing next to no clothing, does a guy who watches the video 5 times in a row with the sound muted just because the singer is hot make that a popular song? It makes it a popular video but is it really a popular song? All of the other formulas that go into the Hot 100 are audio based only with no visual component to it. This is now changing.

To be fair though we have to realize that HS is right there near the top of the digital sales chart, so there are some people anyway who are buying the song because they apparently actually like the song as opposed to just wanting to watch it for the dopey people who are dancing.

great post! Couldn't agree more.

[imbondz]

Feb 22, 2013 11:11:24 GMT -5 @2m said:

Feb 22, 2013 11:08:51 GMT -5 imbondz said:

Can someone figure out where Harlem Shake would have ranked pre-horrible chart policy change?

If it's a matter of it being 2 or 3 anyways, then it's not that big of a deal to me. I can't stand that 30 second VIDEO clips are being considered for chart points. That makes zero sense to me. A song is a song. A song is not a 30 second or 1 minute sample of the song.

It would have debuted top 15

so top 15 meaning 15? or top 15 meaning 8?

[Deleted]

The clear motivation for this change appears to be 'Gangnam Style'. Clearly more popular than 'One More Night' but due to the methodology in place was stuck at #2. This change should hopefully fix that

[Deleted]

Feb 22, 2013 11:12:48 GMT -5 imbondz said:

Feb 22, 2013 11:11:24 GMT -5 @2m said:

It would have debuted top 15

so top 15 meaning 15? or top 15 meaning 8?

It was published multiple places that it would have debuted inside the top 15. I take that to mean not top 10

[Adonis the DemiGod!]

YouTube 100million views = 10k
Airplay 100million listeners = 10k
OnDemand 1million listeners = 10k
Sales 100k sold = 10k

Thoughts?

I am curious as to why Billboard made youtube count the way it did...and why they keep changing the charts in the middle of the chart year instead of at the beginning of the chart year.

[imbondz]

Feb 22, 2013 11:14:26 GMT -5 @2m said:

Feb 22, 2013 11:12:48 GMT -5 imbondz said:

so top 15 meaning 15? or top 15 meaning 8?

It was published multiple places that it would have debuted inside the top 15. I take that to mean not top 10

ok cool. Thanks 2m. then that is ridiculous to me. a top 15 song a week ago, a #1 song today. I can understand a chart change from a top 3 song to a #1 song, but this jump is crazy to me.

[imbondz]

So Youtube is the difference between a song being Top 15 and #1. Waaaay too much influence. I rarely if ever watch videos at Youtube. When I listen to music, I listen to music, then entire song. When I am considering purchasing a song, I listen to 30-60 second samples of clips on iTunes.

Common sense and logic should be a factor in determining chart points as well, which Billboard seems to have forgotten.

[Deleted]

Feb 22, 2013 11:21:27 GMT -5 imbondz said:

I rarely if ever watch videos at Youtube

Cool, but 2 billion people do monthly. So... A lot of people nowadays listen to music on Youtube, by minimizing the video and just listening to the song itself.

[imbondz]

Feb 22, 2013 11:13:37 GMT -5 @2m said:

The clear motivation for this change appears to be 'Gangnam Style'. Clearly more popular than 'One More Night' but due to the methodology in place was stuck at #2. This change should hopefully fix that

But we're people watching the Gangham Style VIDEO because they liked the song or because they liked the video.

IMO, Video component should be VERY small percentage of a chart. Why wasn't MTV play back in the day ever included? Because they're videos. Michael Jackson's Thriller would have been #1 for 2 years straight if video play was included.