Billboard Hot 100: 03/09/13

[stetz]

wut

[When I Ruled the World]

Feb 27, 2013 15:17:07 GMT -5 @xiivi said:

As for the race between the Hot 100's top two songs this week, "Shake" easily outpaces "Shop" with slightly more than three-and-a-half the chart points total of the latter, a difference similar to last week. "Shake" drops by 3% in overall points, while "Shop" falls by 7%.

I wish we were privy to all the behind the scenes talk at Billboard. I can't imagine radio being happy about this at all.

[Quixotic Music Lover]

Feb 27, 2013 16:15:27 GMT -5 When I Ruled the World said:

Feb 27, 2013 15:17:07 GMT -5 @xiivi said:

As for the race between the Hot 100's top two songs this week, "Shake" easily outpaces "Shop" with slightly more than three-and-a-half the chart points total of the latter, a difference similar to last week. "Shake" drops by 3% in overall points, while "Shop" falls by 7%.

I

I wish we were privy to all the behind the scenes talk at Billboard. I can't imagine radio being happy about this at all.

Radio, music company executives, etc.. I can't believe the music industry will put up with these ridiculous results for too many more weeks. But who knows, maybe the music industry executives don't really care much anymore on what happens on the HOT100.

[Deleted]

Why would the music industry think it is ridiculous?

Note: I know why the Pulse community thinks it is.

[Deleted]

So I guess everytime an big name artist releases a music video, we can expect it to enter the top 10 that week.

[Deleted]

Feb 27, 2013 15:17:07 GMT -5 @xiivi said:

Swift's No. 2-peaking "I Knew You Were Trouble." rebounds 5-4 on the Hot 100, swapping spots with will.i.am and Britney Spears' No. 3-peaking "Scream & Shout" (4-5).

Flop goat remix. :( This pretty much proves that viral videos will not help songs much. Unless the goat video didn't count.

Feb 27, 2013 16:28:07 GMT -5 @2m said:

Why would the music industry think it is ridiculous?

The music industry probably likes it as it reflects revenue more accurately.

Feb 27, 2013 15:45:07 GMT -5 Quixotic Music Lover said:

So much for 103 million streams in a week being an aberration. A couple more weeks like the last two and "Harlem Shake" will be the #1 song of 2013, even though "Thrift Shop" continues to dominate on the other 3 components.

R.I.P. Hot 100, time to move over to the digital songs chart where popularity is measured objectively without suspect formulas that seem to change on a whim.

Harlem Shake is starting to do very well on normal streaming now aswell. But 103 million streams in a week is still a rare occurance, it's still the same song doing it. You won't have songs regularly reaching it. This will die down in a few weeks and then it'll back to Thrift Shop at #1 on the YouTube chart with 10 million views.

[Au$tin]

Feb 27, 2013 16:35:56 GMT -5 @gagalicious said:

So I guess everytime an big name artist releases a music video, we can expect it to enter the top 10 that week.

Or at least close to it. That 3-7 fall for "Stay" is painful to look at.

I posted about how "Stay" felt too high last week because of the new formula, but everyone was focused on "Harlem Shake." Exclude the fact that "Harlem Shake" is an anomaly, and you still have "Stay" rocketing to 3 one week, and tumbling to 7 the next. Eh... just doesn't sit right with me. I know it was likely to fall this week because of the absolutely normal and predictable sales decline, but it's clear that it's decline on YouTube is much more harsher than digitally, and I'm afraid most songs by high-profile artists are going to see that happen to them. It kind of seems like "Stay"'s popularity was exaggerated last week. This is why I still think the formula needs tinkering. "Stay" should not have been top three last week. And in the coming weeks, "All Around the World"'s music video will give us the same result.

Oh, and I noticed that "I Knew You Were Trouble." moved up to #4 even though the gap between it and "Scream & Shout" shrunk in sales and airplay this week. That must mean that the goat video actually counted (as it should, since those 30 second clips for "Harlem Shake" do).

[Deleted]

You have to remember that Stay also had the huge Grammy sales boost. With the sales/airplay formula of 2011, it would have had a similar ranking. Also, didn't it get 18+'d on Youtube for a few days? That probably didn't help.

[Quixotic Music Lover]

Feb 27, 2013 16:28:07 GMT -5 @2m said:

Why would the music industry think it is ridiculous?

Note: I know why the Pulse community thinks it is.

Because it is 250% more popular than the #2 song in the country that is ahead of it on all other measures (by a large margin).

The lead of 250% is primarily due to people streaming videos, not by the artist, but by YouTubers who are making videos that sample the song. I wonder how many participants in the videos can actually name the artist they are dancing to. I suspect not too many.

Besides those objections the HOT 100 methodology is flawless.

[kingofpain]

How many songs that are actually in the top 10 overall AirPlay are actually in the hot 100 top 10... Just curious?

[jebsib]

Last week, 6 songs were in both top 10s.

[Au$tin]

Feb 27, 2013 17:23:33 GMT -5 kingofpain said:

How many songs that are actually in the top 10 overall AirPlay are actually in the hot 100 top 10... Just curious?

1. TAYLOR SWIFT – I Knew You Were Trouble: #4
2. MACKLEMORE & RYAN LEWIS – Thrift Shop f/Wanz:#2
3. BRUNO MARS – Locked Out Of Heaven: #9
5. WILL.I.AM & BRITNEY SPEARS – Scream And Shout: #5
8. JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE – Suit & Tie f/JAY Z: #8

Harlem Shake (#1), When I Was Your Man (#3), Started From the Bottom (#6), Stay (#7), and Love Me (#10) are not inside the top 10 in overall airplay.

"When I Was Your Man" should be there soon, though. "Stay" will eventually follow it. Don't know if the Drake & Lil Wayne songs will get there. The Drake song probably eventually will. The Lil Wayne song will probably just miss out on it. Harlem Shake is a huge toss up. "Gangnam Style" didn't, so one can only guess about "Harlem."

[Deleted]

Feb 27, 2013 17:11:27 GMT -5 Quixotic Music Lover said:

Feb 27, 2013 16:28:07 GMT -5 @2m said:

Why would the music industry think it is ridiculous?

Note: I know why the Pulse community thinks it is.

Because it is 250% more popular than the #2 song in the country that is ahead of it on all other measures (by a large margin).

The lead of 250% is primarily due to people streaming videos, not by the artist, but by YouTubers who are making videos that sample the song. I wonder how many participants in the videos can actually name the artist they are dancing to. I suspect not too many.

Besides those objections the HOT 100 methodology is flawless.

My only comment to this is that the Hot 100 is a songs chart not an artist chart

[kingofpain]

I don't even know how Lil Wayne's song flew into the top 10. If 5 of the top 10 songs in overall airplay got shut out by a song that wasn't even in the top 10 airplay or sales, then that really is ridiculous.

[Arabella21]

So if a song sold a million copies in a week, but was low on radio, streaming, Youtube, etc. that would be okay as a Hot 100 #1, because at least everyone who bought the song would know who the artist is?

[KeepDeanWeird]

The H100 will eventually go by wayside, just like the Country and R&B charts after they were polluted with all-genre airplay. I don't even look at them anymore.

[Au$tin]

Quixotic Music Lover did say "artist," which I disagree with. Replace "artist" with "song," and that makes much more sense to me. 1 million downloads seems like a much more sensible reason to be at number one than 100 million YouTube views.

But this is just me. I know two or three people are going to quote me and give me their opinion, but it's not going to change mine.

This argument is turning into this:


Both sides have pleaded their cases, and both bring up very valid points. If you haven't picked a side by now, you never will.

[kingofpain]

All I can say is boy am I glad Pink and Calvin Harris got their one week in before the end of everything happened.

[Deleted]

Feb 27, 2013 17:34:59 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Quixotic Music Lover did say "artist," which I disagree with. Replace "artist" with "song," and that makes much more sense to me. 1 million downloads seems like a much more sensible reason to be at number one than 100 million YouTube views.

But this is just me. I know two or three people are going to quote me and give me their opinion, but it's not going to change mine.

This argument is turning into this:


Both sides have pleaded their cases, and both bring up very valid points. If you haven't picked a side by now, you never will.

Let's say hypothetically the Pulse community is 100% in unity that the youtube methodology sucks. That we all agree to not change the old mix and to bring everything back the way it was, to the days where radio airplay was a bigger factor and streaming was basically a non factor.

Then what?

[Au$tin]

Feb 27, 2013 17:43:51 GMT -5 @2m said:

Feb 27, 2013 17:34:59 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Quixotic Music Lover did say "artist," which I disagree with. Replace "artist" with "song," and that makes much more sense to me. 1 million downloads seems like a much more sensible reason to be at number one than 100 million YouTube views.

But this is just me. I know two or three people are going to quote me and give me their opinion, but it's not going to change mine.

This argument is turning into this:
:dontquotetheimage:

Both sides have pleaded their cases, and both bring up very valid points. If you haven't picked a side by now, you never will.

Let's say hypothetically the Pulse community is 100% in unity that the youtube methodology sucks. That we all agree to not change the old mix and to bring everything back the way it was, to the days where radio airplay was a bigger factor and streaming was basically a non factor.

Then what?

I don't want that to happen. I'm one of the ones who are for YouTube being added. I just want the formula to be changed because I feel it gives too much power to YouTube views.

The "Then what?" comment of your post really ticks me off. I assume you're getting at that the argument is pointless and fighting about it won't resolve anything and that even if we were all in agreement, Billboard is going to do what it's going to do. Yeah... that's the whole point of a forum. We discuss things. We don't change things. You can apply that same idea to literally every aspect of this board. Oh, a few people don't agree with the airplay charts? Well, there's no point in fighting about it because whatever you say isn't going to change it. Well, then what's the point of even having a place for discussion?

Unless that's not what you meant by "Then what?" and I'm totally mistaking your post. In which case, ignore mine.

[jebsib]

LOL that the Hot 100 will go by the wayside! You mean like it did in 1972, when labels revolted against it? Or 1996 when half of all radio hit songs were ineligible to chart? Or 2004 when it was a surprise to find even two pop/rock songs in the top 15? Nah. It's evolving with the times. Otherwise it would still be counting jukebox plays.

[Au$tin]

Feb 27, 2013 17:50:54 GMT -5 jebsib said:

LOL that the Hot 100 will go by the wayside! You mean like it did in 1972, when labels revolted against it? Or 1996 when half of all radio hit songs were ineligible to chart? Or 2004 when it was a surprise to find even two pop/rock songs in the top 15? Nah. It's evolving with the times. Otherwise it would still be counting jukebox plays.

I agree. It's absurd for people to believe the chart is awful and will die away because they don't like the change.

I may not like the change 100%, but I know that the Hot 100 isn't any less valid than it was before.

I just perceive it differently than I did before. I take it all with a grain of salt. "Harlem Shake" is #1? Ew, WTF? "Harlem Shake" is #1 because it has 100 million YouTube views? Oh, okay. I still perceive "Thrift Shop" as bigger than "Harlem Shake" because it is over it in the three other components, but then I can also take in that "Harlem Shake" is the #1 because of its popularity in one component. I may not agree with it, but it is valid. One must look at the entire picture before making a judgement.

[Deleted]

Feb 27, 2013 17:45:06 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Feb 27, 2013 17:43:51 GMT -5 @2m said:

Let's say hypothetically the Pulse community is 100% in unity that the youtube methodology sucks. That we all agree to not change the old mix and to bring everything back the way it was, to the days where radio airplay was a bigger factor and streaming was basically a non factor.

Then what?

I don't want that to happen. I'm one of the ones who are for YouTube being added. I just want the formula to be changed because I feel it gives too much power to YouTube views.

The "Then what?" comment of your post really ticks me off. I assume you're getting at that the argument is pointless and fighting about it won't resolve anything and that even if we were all in agreement, Billboard is going to do what it's going to do. Yeah... that's the whole point of a forum. We discuss things. We don't change things. You can apply that same idea to literally every aspect of this board. Oh, a few people don't agree with the airplay charts? Well, there's no point in fighting about it because whatever you say isn't going to change it. Well, then what's the point of even having a place for discussion?

Unless that's not what you meant by "Then what?" and I'm totally mistaking your post. In which case, ignore mine.

Don't mean to anger anybody. I like the change myself. An acknowledgement of the popularity of Harlem Shake via youtube is a good thing. Youtube is a more prominent way of 'consuming' music now than it was even a couple years ago.

I understand that discussion boards are for discussion and oftem times we are venting just for the sake of it.

I was just curious with my statement. What happens if we all did agree on a formula? What would we do with it?

[Quixotic Music Lover]

Feb 27, 2013 17:27:58 GMT -5 @2m said:

Feb 27, 2013 17:11:27 GMT -5 Quixotic Music Lover said:

Because it is 250% more popular than the #2 song in the country that is ahead of it on all other measures (by a large margin).

The lead of 250% is primarily due to people streaming videos, not by the artist, but by YouTubers who are making videos that sample the song. I wonder how many participants in the videos can actually name the artist they are dancing to. I suspect not too many.

Besides those objections the HOT 100 methodology is flawless.

My only comment to this is that the Hot 100 is a songs chart not an artist chart

True, but usually when a song is as popular as "Harlem Shake" the people who like the song would be talking about the artist as well. That is why I believe the popularity of "Harlem Shake" is overstated by Billboard by a factor of at least 5 (I am assuming its' point total is around 250-300 thousand).

[Au$tin]

Feb 27, 2013 17:57:18 GMT -5 @2m said:

I was just curious with my statement. What happens if we all did agree on a formula? What would we do with it?

Reach a general consensus and then discussion would eventually die off. Someone might try to propose it to Billboard, but that probably wouldn't amount to anything. Someone then might try to compose a chart based on said formula, but that probably wouldn't last long considering the amount of data we actually get versus the amount we would need for that.

[Quixotic Music Lover]

Feb 27, 2013 17:43:51 GMT -5 @2m said:

Feb 27, 2013 17:34:59 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Quixotic Music Lover did say "artist," which I disagree with. Replace "artist" with "song," and that makes much more sense to me. 1 million downloads seems like a much more sensible reason to be at number one than 100 million YouTube views.

But this is just me. I know two or three people are going to quote me and give me their opinion, but it's not going to change mine.

This argument is turning into this:


Both sides have pleaded their cases, and both bring up very valid points. If you haven't picked a side by now, you never will.

Let's say hypothetically the Pulse community is 100% in unity that the youtube methodology sucks. That we all agree to not change the old mix and to bring everything back the way it was, to the days where radio airplay was a bigger factor and streaming was basically a non factor.

Then what?

I would not exclude streaming from the HOT100 mix, but I would exclude streaming of videos other than the artist's own music video of the song. Nobody will ever convince me that the streaming of a college swim team's 30 second video that samples a popular song should be included in the HOT 100, especially at the ratio of 300 streams per 1 chart point (I am assuming YouTube views count as passive streaming).

My ideal formula would be:

Sales: 50%
On-Demand: 25%
Passive Streaming & Radio:25%

I am partial to a formula that gives more weight to those components in which the music listener has to pay money to listen to the song.

But right now I would settle for the non-artist 30 second videos being excluded from the YouTube streaming count.

[Quixotic Music Lover]

Feb 27, 2013 18:04:39 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Feb 27, 2013 17:57:18 GMT -5 @2m said:

I was just curious with my statement. What happens if we all did agree on a formula? What would we do with it?

Reach a general consensus and then discussion would eventually die off. Someone might try to propose it to Billboard, but that probably wouldn't amount to anything. Someone then might try to compose a chart based on said formula, but that probably wouldn't last long considering the amount of data we actually get versus the amount we would need for that.

Billboard will only tweak the formula if it receives pressure from the music industry that it serves. If the music industry thinks Billboard has it right, then chart watchers like myself will either suck it up or move on to another chart.

[lugus15]

People are only NOT liking the new formula because a pretty crappy song is topping the chart. But really, HS is/was the most popular song this past week in the USA. Most people don't follow the BB charts, as shown by HS decreasing in Youtube views in spite of the BB announcement of last week.

When this fad dies over, then when all of our faves go to #1, thanks to spectacular videos, then most of you people will suddenly like the formula.

[Au$tin]

Feb 27, 2013 19:34:29 GMT -5 lugus15 said:

Most people don't follow the BB charts, as shown by HS decreasing in Youtube views in spite of the BB announcement of last week.

I find this sentence funny. People don't attack their favorite songs on YouTube just because Billboard now counts the views for it. Well, some do, but a multitude more do not. The general public probably doesn't even know that "Harlem Shake" is even #1.

[Deleted]

Yay for Drake :)