|
|
Post by 2shane7 on Nov 4, 2004 12:42:45 GMT -5
I am really surprised at the way so many singers and songs receive accusations of manipulation by their record labels. Granted, I am relatively new to this message board, so maybe these accusations have been circulating for years. Just today, though, I read a comment about Lee Ann Womack's new song, and how its rapid climb during the first three weeks is "highly suspicious." I've also seen these other artists accused of having their positions manipulated:
Reba ... "Somebody"
Toby Keith ... "Stays In Mexico"
Tim McGraw ... "Live Like You Were Dying"
Terri Clark ... "Girls Lie Too"
Do people really believe this, or do they just tend to say it about the songs they don't WANT to see move up the charts?
|
|
Perp
2x Platinum Member
Joined: February 2004
Posts: 2,104
|
Post by Perp on Nov 4, 2004 12:54:40 GMT -5
It really happens. We're not making this stuff up. The charts are easily manipulated. Reba's label even bragged about it. Before you accuse people here (like myself) of bias, please do your homework. I'm not some conspiracy nut. :)
I happen to like some of the songs in question, but if I suspect some chart manipulation is going on, I mention it regardless of who the artist is.
For what it's worth, I don't think Lee Ann Womack's song is being manipulated. I looked over the stations playing it the most and nobody has it at some artificially high spin level. They're all pretty much in the ball park. The station spinning it the most is only giving it 25 spins.
I've seen instances where brand new songs can suddenly get close to 100 spins at individual stations, right from the get-go, to give them an early kick start. That happens with new songs by Big and Rich, that always get a huge initial boost from a certain Tampa station. I have no idea if the label is making that happen or the station just happens to like Big and Rich a whole lot.
|
|
WhySoSerious?
7x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 7,106
|
Post by WhySoSerious? on Nov 4, 2004 17:48:47 GMT -5
It happens. Believe it.
|
|
|
|
Post by 2shane7 on Nov 4, 2004 23:51:20 GMT -5
"Before you accuse people here (like myself) of bias, please do your homework. I'm not some conspiracy nut"
But that's just it: I'm NOT accusing you of bias. I was honestly wondering if people believe this, or if they say it because they don't like the success of certain songs. I was asking because of the sheer number of songs and artists I've seen accused on here. And you gave me an answer, which I respect. It's disappointing to know that the charts can be manipulated, and I will have a more cynical view of them from here on out.
Is the same manipulation happening with Reba's new song, "He Gets That From Me"???
|
|
Perp
2x Platinum Member
Joined: February 2004
Posts: 2,104
|
Post by Perp on Nov 5, 2004 20:34:52 GMT -5
"Before you accuse people here (like myself) of bias, please do your homework. I'm not some conspiracy nut" But that's just it: I'm NOT accusing you of bias. I was honestly wondering if people believe this, or if they say it because they don't like the success of certain songs. I was asking because of the sheer number of songs and artists I've seen accused on here. And you gave me an answer, which I respect. No problem... I put a smile after my 'conspiracy nut' remark in the original post you quoted. My tone wasn't intended to be harsh, really, but in retrospect it could be taken that way. Sorry about that. When I first got into following the charts closely early this year, I didn't have a clue about what goes on. I was very naive, but I've gotten cynical now that I've been educated about all the wheeling and dealing that goes on behind the scenes. No, nothing looks suspicious with her current song... not yet anyway. Most of it happens when songs get way up there in the uppermost part of the charts, or maybe when an older song is on it's last legs hovering in the upper teens, and the label wants to push it into the Top Ten before it expires. There could be stuff going on all the time elsewhere in the chart that isn't obviously detectable, that we don't hear about, but it's those big spin buys that stick out like sore thumbs. |
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Nov 7, 2004 2:32:09 GMT -5
It DOES happen--the singles by Terri & Reba both hit #1 in BB after their respective labels bought HUNDREDS of spins in the middle of the night on TONS of small and medium market stations.
Mariah Carey's label did the same a while back with a song called 'Through The Rain'.
Tim McGraw's single set some staggering records for airplay in a single week; it averaged 48 spins per station per week during it's third or fourth week at #1, which was unprecedented, as well as spending 10 weeks on top.
|
|
smack
Gold Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 770
|
Post by smack on Nov 8, 2004 10:12:37 GMT -5
Keep in mind, the charts are moving slower and slower over the last 5 or 6 years, despite the new recurrents that BB and RR are making. I agree about Terri Clark and Reba's songs being manipulated....there has never been a song that's been around for 25-30 weeks gain that much (I'm referring to 25-30 weeks in the top 40 portion of the chart). But I'm sure this is going on in other formats too, not just country. As far as Tim being #1 for 10 weeks....that was a good country song. And on BB, it was #1 in audience for 10 weeks, a new record. But if stations are buying impressions, they are doing it at night, when audiences are at their lowest. That's why Terri and Reba did not hit #1 on audience in BB. Just my 2 cents
|
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Nov 11, 2004 1:31:29 GMT -5
Toby Keith is up to #3 in the new R&R, and he gained 411 spins, most of which were bought, a la the Reba & Terri Clark singles.
Pretty disgusting and dishonest, ins't it??????
|
|
|
|
Post by ultramixmarv on Nov 11, 2004 21:02:53 GMT -5
yeah i notice some weird things on the country chart. like for example i watched that Bret Michaels song "All I Ever Needed" like a hawk. It took 2 runs at the Top 40 and fell short both times and there were songs in the Top 40 with way less spins and audience. It's like they arrange them how they want and it seems like Bret is getting black balled. I bet he makes one more run at Top 40 but just before he gets there half the stations supporting him now will drop him,all together he's had close to 90 stations on it but there all at different times and they won't spin it a week before they give up.
|
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Nov 21, 2004 1:17:11 GMT -5
Toby just fell 1,077 spins in the new R&R--now that's humiliating!!!
|
|
smack
Gold Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 770
|
Post by smack on Nov 21, 2004 11:06:02 GMT -5
Some beach? I just think this is picking up spins....I don't listen to country that much anymore...but when I flipped to the station last week, I heard this song...I'm like wow, catchy! Trying to figure out who sung it, then I heard him say some beach over and over, and figured it out....I really like this song, it's awesome. I really think it's gonna be a tight race for the next month between Blake, Kenny and Timmy. We will see.
|
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Dec 11, 2004 22:14:41 GMT -5
Blake Shelton's label is buying spins like mad, trying to get this to #1.
If they don't succeed, 'Back When' is going to be #1 for at least four weeks, and potentially longer.
|
|
smack
Gold Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 770
|
Post by smack on Dec 12, 2004 0:51:08 GMT -5
How do you know they are buying plays? They are ahead in spins AND audience, which means that even the bigger stations are playing it, unlike reba and terri. It's also a very good song, good beat etc....so I'm happy it got to #1. Smack Blake Shelton's label is buying spins like mad, trying to get this to #1. If they don't succeed, 'Back When' is going to be #1 for at least four weeks, and potentially longer. |
|
jond7699
8x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2003
Posts: 8,306
|
Post by jond7699 on Dec 12, 2004 2:36:44 GMT -5
I see "Back When" getting back on top next week. Blake will start to slow
|
|
smack
Gold Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 770
|
Post by smack on Dec 12, 2004 8:35:34 GMT -5
As of this morning, Blake was up over 200, Tim was down -37. Blake had a 200+ lead. I see at least 3 weeks, if not 4 or 5 due to the holiday for him. I see "Back When" getting back on top next week. Blake will start to slow |
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Dec 17, 2004 0:36:48 GMT -5
The fact remains that if Shelton's label had NOT purchased 400+ spins two weeks ago, Tim McGraw would be #1 for the second of what would undoubtedly be a minimum of FOUR weeks at #1, or until Keith Urban, Gretchen Wilson or Darryl Worley caught him.
This buying spins-nonsense just destroys the credibility and accuracy of BOTH trades, and there has to be some way to stop it, I would think!!!!!
|
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Apr 3, 2005 1:33:05 GMT -5
Help MIGHT be on the way.
According to Lon Helton's column in the newest issue of R&R, Mediabase will soon be monitoring all 2,146 country stations.
When that happens, Helton reports that R&Rs panel will be increased to 150 stations, up from the present 116.
Here's the kicker--that panel of 150 stations will change EVERY WEEK, and NOBODY outside of R&R will know which stations they are.
That's a VERY aggressive move; I sure as heck hope it works, after the irregularities we've seen the past several months.
|
|
Dustin J.
3x Platinum Member
90's country guru
Joined: January 2005
Posts: 3,087
|
Post by Dustin J. on Apr 3, 2005 10:56:13 GMT -5
Here's the kicker--that panel of 150 stations will change EVERY WEEK, and NOBODY outside of R&R will know which stations they are. :o :o :o |
|
drock89
Diamond Member
Joined: October 2007
Posts: 10,985
|
Post by drock89 on Apr 3, 2005 11:50:07 GMT -5
When will that change go into effect? I think it will really help the charts...
|
|
|
|
Post by FrancineLangeInNY on Apr 4, 2005 22:19:53 GMT -5
I am really surprised at the way so many singers and songs receive accusations of manipulation by their record labels. Granted, I am relatively new to this message board, so maybe these accusations have been circulating for years. Just today, though, I read a comment about Lee Ann Womack's new song, and how its rapid climb during the first three weeks is "highly suspicious." I've also seen these other artists accused of having their positions manipulated: Reba ... "Somebody" Toby Keith ... "Stays In Mexico" Tim McGraw ... "Live Like You Were Dying" Terri Clark ... "Girls Lie Too" Do people really believe this, or do they just tend to say it about the songs they don't WANT to see move up the charts? A lot of it has to do with certain singers who were formerly huge on radio and their fans tend to be resentful of other artists' current popularity. Many (not all) Shania fans like accusing others of payola, simply because Twain's own songs do so badly in today's radio climate... |
|
Perp
2x Platinum Member
Joined: February 2004
Posts: 2,104
|
Post by Perp on Apr 6, 2005 12:34:32 GMT -5
Is that Lon Helton article about changes to R&R for real or an April Fool's Joke?
|
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Apr 6, 2005 16:15:26 GMT -5
Mr. Helton is NOT a fiction writer; the article was dead serious.
Various people within the industry came to him, as well as R&Rs CEO/Editor-In-Chief Erica Farber, and asked that they take steps to make their charts 'impossible to manipulate'.
|
|
Perp
2x Platinum Member
Joined: February 2004
Posts: 2,104
|
Post by Perp on Apr 8, 2005 18:55:37 GMT -5
A lot of it has to do with certain singers who were formerly huge on radio and their fans tend to be resentful of other artists' current popularity. Many (not all) Shania fans like accusing others of payola, simply because Twain's own songs do so badly in today's radio climate... You never give it a rest do you? Plenty of people besides Shania fans have figured out the manipulation that's been going on. Reba's label even openly BRAGGED about it! You never have come up with any links or references for these Shania 'reviews' you've plastered on the board. I don't believe anything you say anymore. And I'm speaking as someone who doesn't even own a Shania CD. We're fed up with your unsubstantiated falsehoods. Ok, I'm done feeding this troll. |
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Apr 13, 2005 14:55:48 GMT -5
I'm glad that the folks at R&R have announced this new polciy, and I can't wait to see it take place.
I'm sure BB will come up with something as well.
|
|
smack
Gold Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 770
|
Post by smack on Apr 20, 2005 9:08:32 GMT -5
B&D this week! +450 going to #1. If you look at Portland's station if I remember correctly, 55 spins overnight! However, Craig Morgan, #3 in spins, is still #1 in audience on mediabase, but got bumped last week by KC on BB.
|
|
Perp
2x Platinum Member
Joined: February 2004
Posts: 2,104
|
Post by Perp on Apr 20, 2005 13:09:08 GMT -5
It looks like the R&R panel increased to 123 overnight. Eight songs in the Top 50 suddenly regained their bullets, and today it took a bullet of over 200 to even make the Jump! chart... www.mmr247.com/mmrweb/AllAccess/jump.asp?chart=C1Make sure you click on the Brooks & Dunn's 'Leaders' link on that page to check out the outrageous overnight spins in a few select stations. That's chart manipulation right there, in your face, for any of you non-believers out there. |
|
Zazie
5x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 5,144
|
Post by Zazie on Apr 20, 2005 16:23:13 GMT -5
What good did it do B&D? They didn't manage to get to #1 on either chart. Maybe this will signal the end of this kind of nonsense, although there are probably other kinds of nonsense out there.
|
|
|
|
Post by luvhonkytonk on Apr 20, 2005 19:04:25 GMT -5
I noticed that and was hoping it wasn't so. If the trend continues, they could be #1 next week. My question is if that happens, will KC's label buy spins to keep him at #1? I would really hate that. I'm a huge B&D fan and really wanted to see this song at #1, but on it's own merits.  Tammy |
|
cntrytime
New Member
Joined: November 2004
Posts: 131 
|
Post by cntrytime on Apr 20, 2005 19:34:00 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken the same anonomy happened a week or so with "Gone" by MG with huge jumps and overnights. In fact just the other day I think WYUU was showing 106 spings for that song (down to 86 today). I know that station spins the heck out of new releases and they have that kind of spin action, but a single with 20+ weeks on the chart is very strange. Maybe they do things like this more often and I just don't know.
It doesn't make any sense at all for the label to play games with this song it could stand on its own as a great song!!! especially with all the other top songs not performing all that well right now. Just can't imagine a label chancing anything after the Reba fiasco (legit or not). Also it is hard to imagine the number of stations that the label would have to go after since they randomly select the stations without anyone being knowledgeable of yet?
Edited 5/12/05 to remove personal data...
|
|
Marv
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2004
Posts: 6,308
|
Post by Marv on Apr 20, 2005 23:00:10 GMT -5
This reporting panel change coming to the R&R charts can't gey here fast enough!!!!!!!
|
|
