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Post by Rocky on May 4, 2014 19:32:26 GMT -5
I believe the reason this song is flopping is because it sounds like she tried to go back to her "Fame" roots... She sings about "retweeting" for crying out loud! But honestly, it sounds like a B-side to "Poker Face" and this song doesn't have depth. Honestly, the only single-worthy songs were "Applause" and "Do What U Want." I do believe that "Gypsy" is the only other song, besides the previous two, that could actually do something for the album. The thing with Lady Gaga is that when she came on the scene, she was cool/different and RedOne produced most of her music. Then, she became a LGBT icon and decided to release an album that was all about being different, free, and loving yourself, and honestly.. the general public isn't here for that. Think about it, more straight men and women loved Lady Gaga (I'm sure a lot still do) during "The Fame" era because she made fun music that involved everybody; race, gender, orientation, etc.. With "Born This Way" she went totally for the LGBT community and it worked... for that community. It was front loaded by Amazon and pretty much lacked after that. "Artpop" just sounds like scraps left over from previous albums, but honestly, it is my favorite album by her. I'm out.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2014 19:51:58 GMT -5
Ugh.
One thing I don't get is why people get mad at her for taking herself "too seriously". Can she not grow and evolve as an artist? Is she not allowed to be an artist with a bigger purpose? I can understand why it wouldn't be someone's cup of tea, but you certainly can't act like it isn't genuine at this point or it would've stopped when the red flags started.
There are some things I definitely dislike about her, but any kind of criticism that reflects the above is literally so off base.
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Post by Rocky on May 4, 2014 20:00:15 GMT -5
That. It's like if you're a pop singer that determines you to make fool of yourself all the time. Regulate dem pop stars. oh I never got to use this anyway, ty Codex for ur photoshop skills
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surfy
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learning and growing
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Post by surfy on May 5, 2014 7:04:54 GMT -5
Pop: 29 28 LADY GAGA G.U.Y. 1985 1929 56 6.968
-9 Spins -56 Bullet -0.034 AI
Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm new at this! :)
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getonthebus
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Post by getonthebus on May 5, 2014 9:05:13 GMT -5
Ugh. One thing I don't get is why people get mad at her for taking herself "too seriously". Can she not grow and evolve as an artist? Is she not allowed to be an artist with a bigger purpose? I can understand why it wouldn't be someone's cup of tea, but you certainly can't act like it isn't genuine at this point or it would've stopped when the red flags started. There are some things I definitely dislike about her, but any kind of criticism that reflects the above is literally so off base. On the last page, we simultaneously had someone say she takes her self too seriously and someone complaining that she sang "retweet." This board is the most sometimes.
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Post by iggyazealiastan on May 5, 2014 9:51:05 GMT -5
I think the main problem with Gaga is that she came out and put herself in the "novelty act" bubble. A dance queen with a big gay following, named LADY GAGA. It doesn't get more novelty than this. But that time period and trend sailed and sank and she was unsuccessfully able to move on from that. In fact, she's still trying to pull the same antics from 5 years ago, and that stuff is no longer in anymore. Her image got tired, and so has the music. She failed to reinvent herself...she just kept pushing herself lower and lower with the same line of work. In the end maybe she was meant to be nothing more than a "Boy George" or Spice Girls kind of thing. It will be hard for her to strip away from that novelty aspect, especially since her name is LADY GAGA, a stage name that now screams nothing more than nostalgia. YES at all of this. Clock all these delusional monsters. Gaga had an amazing heydey, but an act like her was never really designed for the long term. She's the Cyndi Lauper of this era: exploded with massive anthemic dance-pop hits, quirky/weird fashion sense, began to decline about 4 years into career, overtaken by another bigger pop girl (Madonna/Katy), became seen as a kooky '80s nostalgia act, her final top 10 hit was the lead single from her 3rd album, today still continues to successfully tour and advocate for causes. Pretty much the path I see for Gaga.
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kmbgs
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Post by kmbgs on May 5, 2014 10:00:32 GMT -5
Was Cyndi Lauper ever really as big as Gaga was in 2009/2010 though?
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lookinghot
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Post by lookinghot on May 5, 2014 10:15:39 GMT -5
I really don't understand the endless comparisons to Cyndi, their careers aren't really following a similar trajectory.
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Post by Rocky on May 5, 2014 10:18:46 GMT -5
If I got 1 cent every time I see these exacts same statements I'd be rich as piss. Nevermind. :)
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 5, 2014 10:18:52 GMT -5
I think the main problem with Gaga is that she came out and put herself in the "novelty act" bubble. A dance queen with a big gay following, named LADY GAGA. It doesn't get more novelty than this. But that time period and trend sailed and sank and she was unsuccessfully able to move on from that. In fact, she's still trying to pull the same antics from 5 years ago, and that stuff is no longer in anymore. Her image got tired, and so has the music. She failed to reinvent herself...she just kept pushing herself lower and lower with the same line of work. In the end maybe she was meant to be nothing more than a "Boy George" or Spice Girls kind of thing. It will be hard for her to strip away from that novelty aspect, especially since her name is LADY GAGA, a stage name that now screams nothing more than nostalgia. YES at all of this. Clock all these delusional monsters. Gaga had an amazing heydey, but an act like her was never really designed for the long term. She's the Cyndi Lauper of this era: exploded with massive anthemic dance-pop hits, quirky/weird fashion sense, began to decline about 4 years into career, overtaken by another bigger pop girl (Madonna/Katy), became seen as a kooky '80s nostalgia act, her final top 10 hit was the lead single from her 3rd album, today still continues to successfully tour and advocate for causes. Pretty much the path I see for Gaga. Tell that to Bowie, or Alice Cooper, or KISS for that matter. Probably the longest running novelty acts in music history.
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Post by iggyazealiastan on May 5, 2014 10:25:48 GMT -5
YES at all of this. Clock all these delusional monsters. Gaga had an amazing heydey, but an act like her was never really designed for the long term. She's the Cyndi Lauper of this era: exploded with massive anthemic dance-pop hits, quirky/weird fashion sense, began to decline about 4 years into career, overtaken by another bigger pop girl (Madonna/Katy), became seen as a kooky '80s nostalgia act, her final top 10 hit was the lead single from her 3rd album, today still continues to successfully tour and advocate for causes. Pretty much the path I see for Gaga. Tell that to Bowie, or Alice Cooper, or KISS for that matter. Probably the longest running novelty acts in music history. Well done on proving my point... Alice Cooper and KISS were novelty acts that only had a short period of commercial success before fading off the charts while continuing to successfully tour. Which is exactly what I said will happen to Gaga. And Bowie evolved endlessly throughout his career with original, revolutionary images and sounds - something Gaga hasn't come close to doing.
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Post by iggyazealiastan on May 5, 2014 10:26:26 GMT -5
Was Cyndi Lauper ever really as big as Gaga was in 2009/2010 though? Yes.
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Post by Rocky on May 5, 2014 10:29:33 GMT -5
*yawn*
------
It'd be nice if this somehow miraculously went top 20 on CHR.
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kmbgs
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Post by kmbgs on May 5, 2014 10:33:06 GMT -5
Was Cyndi Lauper ever really as big as Gaga was in 2009/2010 though? Yes. I wanna see the receipts. (Really - you need to elaborate)
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Post by iggyazealiastan on May 5, 2014 10:47:26 GMT -5
I wanna see the receipts. (Really - you need to elaborate) Both their first solo albums were pop phenomenons, had multiple top 5 singles, received many award nominations and sold millions of copies. They both became famous for their kooky fashion sense and iconic looks. Their second eras were both successful but not as huge as their predecessors. Their third eras only earned one top 10 hit and had a large drop in sales. They both established themselves as leaders of the LGBT community, possibly diminishing their mainstream appeal. The only difference is that Gaga will never have a song as iconic or remembered as GJWTHF or Time After Time.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 5, 2014 10:48:12 GMT -5
Tell that to Bowie, or Alice Cooper, or KISS for that matter. Probably the longest running novelty acts in music history. Well done on proving my point... Alice Cooper and KISS were novelty acts that only had a short period of commercial success before fading off the charts while continuing to successfully tour. Which is exactly what I said will happen to Gaga. Hmmm, well I guess if that's Gaga's future, it can't be so bad. KISS and Alice Cooper are still pretty relevant (to some people) and KISS was just inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. There's certainly more to success than pop radio success. Though she likened herself more to Bowie than those two, if she's even ever mentioned them at all. We'll see if she can pull it off. Either way, it's not such a bad fate as your posts seem to imply. Gaga's friend spoke truth when she sang WORDS CAN'T BRING US DOWN
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george1166
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Posts: 896
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Post by george1166 on May 5, 2014 12:09:41 GMT -5
I wanna see the receipts. (Really - you need to elaborate) Both their first solo albums were pop phenomenons, had multiple top 5 singles, received many award nominations and sold millions of copies. They both became famous for their kooky fashion sense and iconic looks. Their second eras were both successful but not as huge as their predecessors. Their third eras only earned one top 10 hit and had a large drop in sales. They both established themselves as leaders of the LGBT community, possibly diminishing their mainstream appeal. The only difference is that Gaga will never have a song as iconic or remembered as GJWTHF or Time After Time. So much truth :)
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 5, 2014 12:18:45 GMT -5
That's easy to say when her hits are still so recent that time has yet to set in. Just Dance and Poker Face seem to be on their way but, again, it's too soon to tell. Arguing over what will happen in the future is pointless though and I'm not sure why it's become the go-to discussion in every Gaga topic for the last 3 or 4 months since the discussion is around something that nobody can know until time gets there. I'm guilty for joining too since I know as well as anyone else, which is to say I don't know at all. At the very least, I'm glad you folks are pleased with how this era has turned out though. Gaga works only to please people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 12:19:40 GMT -5
Bowie evolved endlessly throughout his career with original, revolutionary images and sounds - something Gaga hasn't come close to doing. Excuse me, but who made you the authority on this? I can clue you that a lot of modern art isn't revolutionary-- likely Bowie drew a lot of his inspirations from the same places Gaga is doing now, or least the proper equivalents in his time. The overexposure of media and pop culture makes it far easier for parallels to be drawn between her and others. I don't even get the novelty thing either, because you could say Katy is as much a novelty as Gaga. Hell, arguments could be made for Britney and, lol, Iggy being novelty. Regardless, people talking like she's over are getting ahead of themselves. The signs are definitely there that it's impending, and she's in the red zone-- but she's still capable of recovery. People act like she didn't have two top 10s this era. Public interest is still there; no matter where the majority stands, be it with her or against her.
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Post by iggyazealiastan on May 5, 2014 12:31:57 GMT -5
Bowie evolved endlessly throughout his career with original, revolutionary images and sounds - something Gaga hasn't come close to doing. Excuse me, but who made you the authority on this? I can clue you that a lot of modern art isn't revolutionary-- likely Bowie drew a lot of his inspirations from the same places Gaga is doing now, or least the proper equivalents in his time. The overexposure of media and pop culture makes it far easier for parallels to be drawn between her and others. I don't even get the novelty thing either, because you could say Katy is as much a novelty as Gaga. Hell, arguments could be made for Britney and, lol, Iggy being novelty. Regardless, people talking like she's over are getting ahead of themselves. The signs are definitely there that it's impending, and she's in the red zone-- but she's still capable of recovery. People act like she didn't have two top 10s this era. Public interest is still there; no matter where the majority stands, be it with her or against her. *DEAD* at you including Dope in her "top 10s"... it was confirmed that Billboard made an exception to allow the pre-roll ad with her YouTube Awards performance to count toward Dope's streaming points. It went top 10 for 1 week mostly based off millions of forced views by people who had no choice. Anyway, yes you're right that Gaga is not done for good. Whether or not she rises back to the top again is completely in her hands. And tbh, with most of her original Fame team now gone and mostly yes-men in their place - I don't see that happening.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on May 5, 2014 12:38:04 GMT -5
I don't want to see that happening. Fixed because lbr
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Deleted
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Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 12:45:19 GMT -5
*DEAD* at you including Dope in her "top 10s"... it was confirmed that Billboard made an exception to allow the pre-roll ad with her YouTube Awards performance to count toward Dope's streaming points. It went top 10 for 1 week mostly based off millions of forced views by people who had no choice.You have no idea what I'm talking about. Anyway, yes you're right that Gaga is not done for good. Whether or not she rises back to the top again is completely in her hands. And tbh, with most of her original Fame team now gone and mostly yes-men in their place - I don't see that happening. That last part doesn't make much sense. Her team was never what kept her in check, it was her label. I think one of her biggest issues this era was that she had a huge shift in management and came off a highly controversial era... and the music was admittedly mediocre, but there were perfectly valid singles on the album. The label didn't handle it too well either.
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on May 5, 2014 12:48:46 GMT -5
*DEAD* at you including Dope in her "top 10s"... it was confirmed that Billboard made an exception to allow the pre-roll ad with her YouTube Awards performance to count toward Dope's streaming points. It went top 10 for 1 week mostly based off millions of forced views by people who had no choice. Do you have an actual source (not Angela Cheng) that they made an exception specifically for her?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 12:51:49 GMT -5
Regardless, I wasn't talking about 'Dope'. I'm pretty sure 'Do What U Want' went top 10 on pop.
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Post by iggyazealiastan on May 5, 2014 12:52:26 GMT -5
*DEAD* at you including Dope in her "top 10s"... it was confirmed that Billboard made an exception to allow the pre-roll ad with her YouTube Awards performance to count toward Dope's streaming points. It went top 10 for 1 week mostly based off millions of forced views by people who had no choice.You have no idea what I'm talking about. Anyway, yes you're right that Gaga is not done for good. Whether or not she rises back to the top again is completely in her hands. And tbh, with most of her original Fame team now gone and mostly yes-men in their place - I don't see that happening. That last part doesn't make much sense. Her team was never what kept her in check, it was her label. I think one of her biggest issues this era was that she had a huge shift in management and came off a highly controversial era... and the music was admittedly mediocre, but there were perfectly valid singles on the album. The label didn't handle it too well either. Her management team is what kept her creative vomit in check (pun intended). Gaga can be brilliant but she doesn't know when to stop - the concept of "less is more" is entirely lost on her. Troy Carter was clearly very good at helping her harness the best of her ideas for maximum commercial appeal. When he walked away only days before ARTPOP's release, it was a very bad sign of things to come - that her manager from day 1 no longer believed in her. And her choreography was on point under Laurieanne Gibson... If you watch her recent live performances, you'll see that's no longer the case
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Post by Rocky on May 5, 2014 12:53:19 GMT -5
*DEAD* at you including Dope in her "top 10s"... it was confirmed that Billboard made an exception to allow the pre-roll ad with her YouTube Awards performance to count toward Dope's streaming points. It went top 10 for 1 week mostly based off millions of forced views by people who had no choice. Do you have an actual source (not Angela Cheng) that they made an exception specifically for her? ...but... queen Angela... you're unfair. :'(
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 13:05:18 GMT -5
Her management team is what kept her creative vomit in check (pun intended). Gaga can be brilliant but she doesn't know when to stop - the concept of "less is more" is entirely lost on her. Troy Carter was clearly very good at helping her harness the best of her ideas for maximum commercial appeal. When he walked away only days before ARTPOP's release, it was a very bad sign of things to come - that her manager from day 1 no longer believed in her. And her choreography was on point under Laurieanne Gibson... If you watch her recent live performances, you'll see that's no longer the case Her choreography was never on point lol. She's not a dancer, and I wish she'd stuck to that concept she came forward with during The Fame ("I'm not Britney Spears" or whatever she said). I'm not going to act like her management didn't have a say in the creative process, but there was the whole Haus of Gaga that essentially built her. I mean, artists shift management all the time. The timing is awful, but it's not THAT telling. Regardless, I don't see why people are under the impression that she has "yes-men" like she's doing things so much more outrageous now than she was before. I really don't think her management has much to do with the equation as far as how she handles herself. What I'm saying is the creative force that is Gaga has always been driven by herself and her management in tandem-- so to say that she ditched them for yes-men doesn't make much sense. It's possible they parted due to creative differences; we don't know the details, but that doesn't mean she wanted "yes-men". She just wanted people who could work comfortably with her. I could also see why she would think "less is more" is a bad route to go. Her entire legacy (well, in the moment anyway-- may not be a lasting one) is built on being so completely extra. It was a risky route to go, and I think that concept was abused and mishandled during the Born This Way era. This era wasn't the best damage control she could've asked for, but I don't think it was a total disaster.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 13:25:25 GMT -5
Bowie evolved endlessly throughout his career with original, revolutionary images and sounds - something Gaga hasn't come close to doing. Excuse me, but who made you the authority on this? I can clue you that a lot of modern art isn't revolutionary-- likely Bowie drew a lot of his inspirations from the same places Gaga is doing now, or least the proper equivalents in his time. The overexposure of media and pop culture makes it far easier for parallels to be drawn between her and others. I don't even get the novelty thing either, because you could say Katy is as much a novelty as Gaga. Hell, arguments could be made for Britney and, lol, Iggy being novelty. Regardless, people talking like she's over are getting ahead of themselves. The signs are definitely there that it's impending, and she's in the red zone-- but she's still capable of recovery. People act like she didn't have two top 10s this era. Public interest is still there; no matter where the majority stands, be it with her or against her. The public is interested in her the same way they are interested in a car accident as they pass it on the road... you can't help but look but want no part of it. Her sales this ERA completely reflect this. Regardless of 2 top 10's this ERA, it has been a complete mess/flop. I'm not saying she can't make a comeback, but to do that, she needs to end the freak show shit!
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Post by Rocky on May 5, 2014 13:50:25 GMT -5
Okay we'll forward your ideas to her team, guys thank you for your effort.
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getonthebus
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Post by getonthebus on May 5, 2014 14:25:26 GMT -5
Okay we'll forward your ideas to her team, guys thank you for your effort. Makes sure she goes back to basics Fame-era Gaga, but also completely re-invents herself, but doesn't tone it down, but also isn't too weird and also gets the GP's interest again without doing anything to garner interest in herself because that's shameless and desperate, and also releases the DWUW video and goes back and releases Gypsy instead of this and re-records Only Wanna Be With You. Did I miss anything?
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